A Solid Warforged Sorcerer Build

[mediocresurgeon]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion of this build!

There are not many Warforged Sorcerer builds listed on the forums. This is a fairly generic build which you can reference through hyprlinks or just take a look at if you are a newer player and wondering what your options are.

The purpose of this sorcerer is to self-heal when soloing, heal other Warforged when questing, and debuff and DPS when raiding. Your main AoE DPS abilities come from Wall of Fire (massive AoE damage over time), Acid Fog (substantial AoE damage over time, plus enemy debuffs), and Ball Lighting (quick devastating blast of AoE). Your main single-target DPS abilities are Polar Ray (also does double damage versus Cold creatures) and Force Missiles (cannot be dodged, most reliable type of damage in DDO). There are multiple items in the suggested equipment setup which generate spell points when struck--this cuts down on the need for mana potions while soloing. This build is easy to level and focuses on a few specific quests:

-All Raids (group play)
-Epic Desert (group play)
-Epic Vault of Night (group play)
-Litany of the Dead (solo and group play)
-Desert Explorer area (solo play)
-Cursed Crypt (solo play)

Race: Warforged (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Race:Warforged)
Alignment: True Neutral (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Alignment#Neutral.2C_.22Undecided.22)

32-Point Abilities:
Strength 8
-Total Strength: 18 (+8 item, +2 rage (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Rage))
Dexterity 8
-Total Dexterity: 16 (+7 item, +1 tome)
Constitution 18
-Total Constitution: 30 final (+7 item, +3 tome, +2 rage (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Rage))
Intelligence 14
-Total Intelligence: 23 final (+7 item, +2 tome)
Wisdom 6
-Total Wisdom: 14 (+7 item, +1 tome)
Charisma 16
-Total Charisma: 38 (+5 level ups, +3 tome, +11 item, +3 enhancement (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Charisma_III))

28-Point Abilities:
Strength 8
-Total Strength: 18 (+8 item, +2 rage (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Rage))
Dexterity 8
-Total Dexterity: 16 (+7 item, +1 tome)
Constitution 16
-Total Constitution: 28 final (+7 item, +3 tome, +2 rage (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Rage))
Intelligence 14
-Total Intelligence: 23 final (+7 item, +2 tome)
Wisdom 6
-Total Wisdom: 14 (+7 item, +1 tome)
Charisma 16
-Total Charisma: 38 (+5 level ups, +3 tome, +11 item, +3 enhancement (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Charisma_III))

Skills:
Balance 11 ranks
-Total Balance: +18 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +3 dexterity)
Concentration 23 ranks
-Total Concentration (32-Point): +37 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +10 constitution)
Intimidate 11 ranks
-Total Intimidate: +49 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +14 charisma, +15 competence, +5 exceptional)
Jump 0 ranks
-Total Jump: +38 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +30 Jump (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Jump), +4 strength)
Tumble 1 rank
-Total Tumble: +8 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +3 dexterity)
Use Magic Device 11 ranks
-Total Use Magic Device: +34 (+4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism), +14 charisma, +5 exceptional)

Feats:
01) Maximize Spell (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Maximize_Spell)
03) Empower Spell (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Empower_Spell)
06) Extend Spell (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Extend_Spell)
09) Quicken Spell (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Quicken_Spell)
12) Spell Penetration (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Spell_Penetration)
15) Heighten Spell (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Heighten_Spell)
18) Greater Spell Penetration (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Greater_Spell_Penetration)

Enhancements:
Sorcerer Bloodline of Power (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Bloodline_of_Power)
Sorcerer Charisma (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Charisma_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Charisma_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Charisma_III))
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Elemental_Manipulation_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Elemental_Manipulation_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Elemental_Manipulation_III), IV (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Elemental_Manipulation_IV))
Sorcerer Energy Manipulation (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_Manipulation_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_Manipulation_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_Manipulation_III), IV (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_Manipulation_IV))
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_of_the_Dragonblooded_I ))
Sorcerer Force Manipulation (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Force_Manipulation_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Force_Manipulation_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Force_Manipulation_III), IV (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Force_Manipulation_IV))
Sorcerer Improved Spell Penetration (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Improved_Spell_Penetration_I) , II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Improved_Spell_Penetration_II ), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Improved_Spell_Penetration_II I))
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Elements_I) , II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Elements_II ), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Elements_II I))
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Energy_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Energy_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Deadly_Energy_III) )
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Elements_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Elements_II), III (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Elements_III))
Sorcerer Lineage of Energy (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Energy_I), II (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Lineage_of_Energy_II))
Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Wand_and_Scroll_Mastery_I))
Warforged Inscribed Armor (I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Warforged_Inscribed_Armor_I))


Spells:
Level 9:
-Wail of the Banshee (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Wail_of_the_Banshee)
-Energy Drain (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Energy_Drain)
-Summon Monster IX (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Summon_Monster_IX) (replace with Meteor Swarm (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Meteor_Swarm)once Epic Tinder is acquired)
Level 8:
-Polar Ray (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Polar_Ray)
-Repair Critical Damage, Mass (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Repair_Critical_Damage,_Mass) (swap for Incendiary Cloud (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Incendiary_Cloud) once Singed Belt (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/SingedBelt.jpg) is acquired)
-Otto's Irresistible Dance (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Otto%27s_Irresistible_Dance)
Level 7:
-Finger of Death (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Finger_of_Death)
-Symbol of Stunning (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Symbol_of_Stunning)
-Waves of Exhaustion (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Waves_of_Exhaustion)
Level 6:
-Acid Fog (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Acid_Fog)/Disintegrate (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Disintegrate) (your preference here)
-Reconstruct (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Reconstruct)
-Flesh To Stone (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Flesh_to_Stone)
Level 5:
-Ball Lighting (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Ball_Lightning)
-Cloudkill (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Cloudkill)
-Cone of Cold (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Cone_of_Cold)
-Protection From Elements (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Protection_from_Elements)
Level 4:
-Dimension Door (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Dimension_Door)
-Fire Shield (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Fire_Shield)
-Force Missiles (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Force_Missiles)
-Wall of Fire (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Wall_of_Fire)
Level 3:
-Displacement (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Displacement)
-Haste (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Haste)
-Sleet Storm (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Sleet_Storm)
-Rage (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Rage)
Level 2:
-Knock (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Knock)
-Invisibility (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Invisibility)
-Resist Energy (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Resist_Energy)
-Web (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Web)
Level 1:
-Jump (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Jump)
-Magic Missile (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Magic_Missile)
-Nightshield (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Nightshield)
-Ray of Enfeeblement (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Ray_of_Enfeeblement)

Ideal Equipment:
Goggles: Epic Spectacles of Spirit Sight (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9774/screenshot00002f.jpg) (crafted +6 Dexterity)
Helmet: Pos/Pos/Pos Green Steel (Charisma Skills +6, +300 sp, raise dead 1/rest)
Necklace: Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II (crafted +6 Constitution)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Trinkets/LitanyoftheDead.jpg)
Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Cloaks/StormreaversNapkin.jpg)
Belt: Epic Belt of the Mroranon (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Belts/EpicBeltoftheMroranon.jpg) (crafted Greater False Life)
Gloves: Epic Bramble-Casters (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Gloves/EpicBramble-Casters.jpg) (crafted +6 Strength)
Ring1: Epic Ring of the Silver Concord (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Rings/EpicRingoftheSilverConcord.jpg) (crafted +1 exceptional Charisma)
Ring2: crafted +40% Ice 8 (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2526/screenshot00000n.jpg)/Feather Fall (http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6766/screenshot00000b.jpg)/+15 Intimidate (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9023/screenshot00001v.jpg)
Bracers: Bracers of the Glacier (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Bracers/BracersoftheGlacier.jpg)
Boots: Kundarak Delving Boots (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Boots/KundarakDelvingBoots.jpg)/Water/Fire/Earth Green Steel (+45 hp, +13 concentration)
Docent: Blue Dragonscale Docent (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Docents/BlueDragonscaleDocent.jpg)
Off-hand: Concordant Opposition Greensteel (+15% Negative Energy Absorption, +20% Healing Amplification, +2 Exceptional Charisma)
Main Hand: +50% Potency 6 (http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/64/screenshot00000vg.jpg)
Shield: Epic Kundarak Warding Shield (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Shields/EpicKundarakWardingShield.jpg) (crafted -15% arcane spell failure, crafted +2 skills and saves)


Spell Points:
1730 Base
406 Charisma
400 Archmagi
300 Greensteel
30 Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Sorcerer_Energy_of_the_Dragonblooded_I )
Total: 2766 sp

Hit Points:
20 Base
80 Class
10 Draconic Vitality (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Draconic_Vitality)
20 Toughness
30 Greater False Life
45 Greensteel
200 Constitution
Total: 405 hp

32-Point Saving Throws:
Base Fortitude +6
-Total Fortitude: +25 (+5 resistance, +10 constitution, +4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism))
Base Reflex +6
-Total Reflex: +18 (+5 resistance, +3 dexterity, +4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism))
Base Will +12
-Total Will: +23 (+5 resistance, +2 wisdom, +4 Greater Heroism (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Greater_Heroism))

[SimVerg]

You lack heighten and web...

[mediocresurgeon]

You lack heighten and web...

Indeed I do. DCs are not a WF sorc's strong point, so I give preference to spells which have no saving throw. Also, I could not fit Heighten Spell into my (limited) feats, since I wanted to be able to Quicken my Reconstructs.

[Junts]

Indeed I do. DCs are not a WF sorc's strong point, so I give preference to spells which have no saving throw. Also, I could not fit Heighten Spell into my (limited) feats, since I wanted to be able to Quicken my Reconstructs.



Heighten is not the feat to sacrifice for quicken spell .. what a wf sorc loses in the 2nd spell penetration feat. Any caster incacpable of heightened web should be summarily booted from any raid harder than the Reaver.. its simply inexcusable to not carry the only effective method of high-level crowd control on DDO. The inclusion of Force of Personality on a race that is immune to a vast majority of will save spells, on a class that gets naturally good will saves, is a similarly poor decision. You're wasting a feat entirely on force.

The feats for a wf sorceror should be max empower quicken heighten toughness extend and spell pen I, its so simple as to defy description.

2 cha behind is not an excuse for not landing the spell.


This is not a 'solid' wf sorceror build .. its a marginal, crappy one that will make most of its groupmates angry.


Why on earth did you take so much intelligence, by the way? My human went 10 str 16 con 12 int 18 cha and I regret it .. and that's with the human sp bonus. If you're not making a 20/16, the extra points should go in strength to forego the need for a str item.

[mediocresurgeon]

Any caster incacpable of heightened web should be summarily booted from any raid harder than the Reaver.. its simply inexcusable to not carry the only effective method of high-level crowd control on DDO.

I'm sorry if you feel that Web is the best crowd control your casters can offer. Mine do not have that limitation.

[SimVerg]

I'm sorry if you feel that Web is the best crowd control your casters can offer. Mine do not have that limitation.

Yours have the limitation of not having any crowd control.

edit: p.s. Exhaust and Fatigue don't stack.

edit2: That's pretty far from ideal gear.

edit3: "After this, I recommend enhancing your critical multipliers on Fire/Ice + Acid/Electricity, and let your equipment handle your critical chance."

lol

[Spisey]

Drop spell pen 2 and pick an item up for greater spell pen. Pick up heighten. You lose very little to your ability to bypass spell pen on anything short of high level elite quests. Heighten web and irresistible dance are the best to cc in the game for a caster to use.

[Dylos_Moon]

Ideal Equipment:
Goggles: Triple Positive Greensteel (Wizardry VI, +50 sp, +100 sp, +6 charisma skills, raise dead 1/rest)
Helmet: Minos Legens (+20 hp, 100% fortification)
Necklace: +50% Potency 6 (does not matter which one you pick)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead (+1 profane bonus to all stats)
Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin (+1 spell DCs)
Belt: Archmage set (+400 sp, enhanced spell critical, +50% potency 8 clicky)
Ring1: Archmage set (+6 int, +1 exceptional int, enhanced spell critical, +2 exceptional constitution)
Ring2: +6 Constitution, +11 balance (RR Warforged)
Gloves: Dexterity +6
Boots: Kundarak Delving Boots
Bracers: Strength +6
Docent: Blue Dragonscale (enhanced spell critical, +2 spell pen 7)
Off-Hand: Triple Positive greensteel (+6 charisma, +1 exceptional charisma, +2 exceptional charisma, raise dead 1/rest)
Main Hand: +40% Potency 7


If you found this build helpful, please leave rep!

It has been noticed that the Archmage set does not stack with greater arcane lore (and its lower then greater arcane lore) Also, I'm not sure how idea it would be to have Wiz 6 on your greensteel sp item while you have archmagi on the archmagi belt.

Just food for thought.

[mediocresurgeon]

Drop spell pen 2 and pick an item up for greater spell pen. Pick up heighten.

I will consider this, if I find that my crowd control is inadequate in Amrath. (Right now my character is level 12, so it has not been tested thoroughly in anything past Gianthold.)



Heighten web and irresistible dance are the best to cc in the game for a caster to use.

My human sorcerer has Heighten and Web, but I find that it is more effective to use Sleet Storm and Acid Fog together in Amrath than it is to try to get Web to land. Web was initially very useful in A Vision of Destruction as well, but Wail of the Banshee has made it obsolete. Currently there are no raids in which Web is useful, no important solo quests in which it is useful, and has only minimal usefulness in high level content because of inflated saving throws.


It has been noticed that the Archmage set does not stack with greater arcane lore (and its lower then greater arcane lore) Also, I'm not sure how idea it would be to have Wiz 6 on your greensteel sp item while you have archmagi on the archmagi belt.

Both are valid points. I posted the Archmage set in the hopes that it will later be fixed. As for Wizardry VI on tier 1 of the goggles... it was taken purely for the +1 UMD, since there really aren't any spectacular tier 1 abilities. I am aware of the Blindness Ward/Disease Immunity for tier 1, but this build does not need the +6 wisdom or the disease immunity, so it just comes down to +1 UMD or Blindness Ward. I'd rather have the +1 UMD.

[Junts]

I'm sorry if you feel that Web is the best crowd control your casters can offer. Mine do not have that limitation.

I have a 40 charisma human sorc with max spell penetration

Web is the best crowd control spell on ddo, and the only one that works in top level, elite content with any reliability whatsoever.

The next most useful is of course irresistable dance. I have the feeling, though, that you've never tried to control Orthons in a ToD hard or elite.


If you threw sleet storm all over in my raids, I'd spam greater dispel on you and order no one to heal you until your griefing self was dead.

Web has no particular issue landing, being a reflex save and mobs having, by far, the worst save as reflex. Its the only immobilization spell that doesn't require energy drains to land reliably, and it has no sr check and mobs can easily be kited through it repeatedly. No mobs have static bonuses against it or innate, twink immunities like enchantment and (more rarely) stun spells.

[Junts]

Yours have the limitation of not having any crowd control.

edit: p.s. Exhaust and Fatigue don't stack.

edit2: That's pretty far from ideal gear.

edit3: "After this, I recommend enhancing your critical multipliers on Fire/Ice + Acid/Electricity, and let your equipment handle your critical chance."

lol

Wow, I didn't even catch the enhancements part, that's just comical.

[mediocresurgeon]

Exhaust and Fatigue don't stack.
Thanks for the catch.



The next most useful is of course irresistable dance. I have the feeling, though, that you've never tried to control Orthons in a ToD hard or elite.

You are correct, I have not played a caster in Tower of Despair. However, I have done Tower of Despair on Normal, Hard and Elite successfully. The tactic I am most familiar with in Tower of Despair p3 is using Energy Drain, WoPs, Flesh to Stone, and Dreamspitters to neutralize the orthons and stop new ones from spawning.



If you threw sleet storm all over in my raids, I'd spam greater dispel on you and order no one to heal you until your griefing self was dead.
Break Enchantment might help you out better than Greater Dispel, in that case. And this build is obviously able to self heal, so telling others not to heal me would be redundant. I also fail to see how casting Sleet Storm is (or would cause) grief.

[SimVerg]

You are correct, I have not played a caster in Tower of Despair. However, I have done Tower of Despair on Normal, Hard and Elite successfully. The tactic I am most familiar with in Tower of Despair p3 is using Energy Drain, WoPs, Flesh to Stone, and Dreamspitters to neutralize the orthons and stop new ones from spawning.


Been in there since patch 1?

[Junts]

You are correct, I have not played a caster in Tower of Despair. However, I have done Tower of Despair on Normal, Hard and Elite successfully. The tactic I am most familiar with in Tower of Despair p3 is using Energy Drain, WoPs, Flesh to Stone, and Dreamspitters to neutralize the orthons and stop new ones from spawning.


Break Enchantment might help you out better than Greater Dispel, in that case. And this build is obviously able to self heal, so telling others not to heal me would be redundant. I also fail to see how casting Sleet Storm is (or would cause) grief.

BE won't strip buffs, which is the point :)

You might have noticed that orthons have started auto-dying when flesh to stoned (this seems sporadic, though, so it might have been a bug and/or been fixed), but when we were having repeated issues iwth fts amounting to an instakill spell, we instead kited the orthons into webs ..1 energy drain, a waves of exhaust and ray of enfeeble and web would hold 4-5 orthons for its duration, which worked out pretty well.

web is also extremely party friendly .. have you never noticed that sleet storm imparts its 50% miss chance to your own party members? Sleet storm is -not- a 'better fog spell', it has significant downsides in a party setting. Web allows for fast, easy immobilization of 4-6 mobs per cast, and while there are some potential uses for 50% miss rate, its not in the same category as a spell that incapacitates multiple mobs for 40-50 seconds.

As a member of a group thats regularly running tod on hard (in fact, all of my characters still have first time bonus for normal), as Sim is, we can both tell you that web and otto's irresistable are the only reliable methods of immobilizing a mob in the tower .. and in fact it remains the best method of controlling devils on vod elites, devils/orthons/etc in all elite amrath quests, and in fact renders etc in elite hounds. If you're willijng to surrender a caster's usefulness in that content and sound the horn of 'omg casters suck now', feel free, but there's a way, as there has always been.

[Inspire]

Break Enchantment might help you out better than Greater Dispel, in that case. And this build is obviously able to self heal, so telling others not to heal me would be redundant. I also fail to see how casting Sleet Storm is (or would cause) grief.

Need FoM and causes Concealment.

[Junts]

Need FoM and causes Concealment.



Is he yours? Can you take him back please?

[Inspire]

Is he yours? Can you take him back please?

Says Sarlona you goof, we are Sleet free on Thelanis.

[mediocresurgeon]

Been in there since patch 1?

Actually, I have not. I am in the middle of a move and currently waiting for my gaming computer to be shipped.


You might have noticed that orthons have started auto-dying when flesh to stoned (this seems sporadic, though, so it might have been a bug and/or been fixed)

Interesting. Good to know.


have you never noticed that sleet storm imparts its 50% miss chance to your own party members?

I have not. My main (a WF barbarian) runs with casters all the time who spam Sleet Storm, and as long as I have Freedom of Movement (easy to get with all the rangers these days) I'm fine.

[Junts]

Says Sarlona you goof, we are Sleet free on Thelanis.

Is there a difference? ;)

[tinyelvis]

At first glance this is a fine build, however, the devil is in the details and you are missing a lot. If you plan on getting spell pen and using DC spells its foolish not to have heighten. Dump Extend. It does not help your offense really any. Or dump quicken.

Dc without heighten for the spell
-Finger of Death -2 DC
Flesh To Stone/Disintegrate -3 DC
-Ball Lighting -4 DC
-Cone of Cold -4 DC
-Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC

Web, which you dont have -7 DC. Web works great in the new content. It doesnt suck, just your web does. You will notice a big difference with heighten.

Why are you still wearing blue dragon scales? Get Draconic armor. Your Polar ray must suck without any buffs. At least use the Superior Freeze belt clicky. Again draconic armor and some raid loot to buff it. You can also get draconic with more spell pen on it. In the off hand you should use a lore item. You can get a green blade from demon queen.

As was mentioned you dont really have any crowd control. Do you need mass repair? Irresistible dance is save free (which fits great with your build). This spell will be nerfed soon so take advantage of it while its there. Because of low DC's or poor damage, the only above average offensive spell usable in end content you are currently running with is force missile. Get your DC's up and improve your Polar ray damage at a minimum.

One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.

[tinyelvis]

.......
You might have noticed that orthons have started auto-dying when flesh to stoned (this seems sporadic, though, so it might have been a bug and/or been fixed)...

They added eventual death to stoned orthons because you used to be able to stone and forget. Now, you stone em and they eventually drop dead so new ones can appear. This ai change was added to charms in some areas too (see shipment).

Web is a great spell, and if you want to web the dudes that is cool. However, stoning some orthons and letting others get killed by melee is good way to insure that main tank maintains aggro. Occasionally, melees peel off main battle to fight orthons. I have never found the orthons to be a threat, stoned or otherwise. Besides webbing, then exhausting each one and keeping them enfeebled seems to be a headache to me. Enfeeble lasts such a short amount of time anymore.

[MrCow]

Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC

This spell is not subject to any saving throw, and thus has no DC.

[Junts]

They added eventual death to stoned orthons because you used to be able to stone and forget. Now, you stone em and they eventually drop dead so new ones can appear. This ai change was added to charms in some areas too (see shipment).

Web is a great spell, and if you want to web the dudes that is cool. However, stoning some orthons and letting others get killed by melee is good way to insure that main tank maintains aggro. Occasionally, melees peel off main battle to fight orthons. I have never found the orthons to be a threat, stoned or otherwise. Besides webbing, then exhausting each one and keeping them enfeebled seems to be a headache to me. Enfeeble lasts such a short amount of time anymore.

Having your dps peel off horoth is a terrible idea; if you're going to have a maintank build aggro, they should do it all at once prior to suulomades' entrance, when there are relatively few orthons present. The dps should not go in until there's no way they'll pull aggro for the rest of horoth's hp bar, and not back out afterwords. Minimizing the amount of time large quantities of orthons and suulomades are present is by far the best path.

1 person to control suulomades and 1-2 others for orthon cntrol should leave the rest of the raid and the melees to focus on ending pt 3 as quickly as possible.

[bobbryan2]

-Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC


Interesting.

You forgot to include how much DC he's missing on solid fog, waves of exhaustion and enervation as well.

[ddoer]

This is not a 'solid' wf sorceror build .. its a marginal, crappy one that will make most of its groupmates angry.

(Right now my character is level 12, so it has not been tested thoroughly in anything past Gianthold.)


from his replies, the OP is obviously not looking for comment. so i don't talk about his build in details. In short, I think it's not a "solid" build and have lots of room for improvement.




One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.

if one goes for quicken (and keep it always on) for reliable self-healing, high con is not too necessarily.

Another benefit of high con, other than higher HP, is better concentration. For those who don't keep quicken always on all the time (i.e. 99.9% of casters), high concentration helps us to pass concentration check. with 57 concentration, you could guarantee success in concentration check for an incoming damage of 43 (if i recall it right, or +1/-1) when using heal scroll. Most of the mobs do not make a damage of 43+. Quicken is for situational use to me

[Junts]

One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.


The difference between your caster and a wf caster who can be trusted to kite Suulomades during ToD with no babysitter.


HP is a tool, if you have it you can use it to your advantage by engaging in higher risk, higher reward tactics than may be appropriate for a drow with half the hit ponits. Its all well and good to say that if you know what you're doing you can avoid having aggro and/or taking damage .. and its certainly true. But the ability to withstand aggro and damage permits you to not spend all your time avoiding those things and instead, when its called for, do what gets the quest done best.

The damage in mod9 is only low if you run short groups and/or low difficulties; full groups on hard and elite and its quite regular for the orthons to do up to 60-70 a swing. Mob damage output is significantly impacted by dungeon scaling, and having hit points lets you do pretty much anything you want. A 550 hit point (my human will have 510, so I'm underselling wf here) quicken-reconstructing wf sorceror with stoneskin, displacement, haste and all the other defensive buffs out there is pretty much the most immortal character on DDO. If you can't think of how that might be something you can use to your advantage, you aren't very creative.

[Junts]

from his replies, the OP is obviously not looking for comment. so i don't talk about his build in details. In short, I think it's not a "solid" build and have lots of room for improvement.




if one goes for quicken (and keep it always on) for reliable self-healing, high con is not too necessarily.

Another benefit of high con, other than higher HP, is better concentration. For those who don't keep quicken always on all the time (i.e. 99.9% of casters), high concentration helps us to pass concentration check. with 57 concentration, you could guarantee success in concentration check for an incoming damage of 43 (if i recall it right, or +1/-1) when using heal scroll. Most of the mobs do not make a damage of 43+. Quicken is for situational use to me

No, the OP posted this as though it were a good build for a beginner wf caster to try and so indicates the concept in his initial post, but significant parts of his rationale are flawed and give people the exact wrong impression about what's required to be a good warforged caster. A guide to a beginner wf caster build should be posted by someone like Sim or MrCow who are, in fact, good warforged sorcerors with extensive experience. Anything with spell points, a heavy fort item, elemental mani enhancements and firewall can be a successful caster through gianthold content; it's not a gauge of anything.

You barely need a pulse to play a sorc at those levels effectively, in fact, you can play badly and groups will work around it and spamheal you and still continue to use you as the main offense and give you the impression you're playing well, simply because firewall is so good between 8 and 13.

[Shade]

And unfortunately the forums still lack a "solid" WF Sorc build.

Any sorc with half a brain understands you need heighten and web. This is just very simple and basic stuff.

There is no substitute for it. You cannot name another cc spell in the game that has equal features:
AoE
Persistant
Ignores Spell Resistance
Long Duration (1min at 20)

Otherwise its a solid build, just needs 2 simple corretions:

Remove:
Blur (lol garbage when you have 2500+ SP and 4minuit displacement at your disposal)
Force of Personality (will saves are almost non-existant in endgame.. And for a high will save base class, what a waste)

Get:
Web
Heighten

[Xykal]

I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with the tone of the responses in this thread. Once again "I'm leeter than you OMG noob" rules over basic humanity and basic human interaction.

Constructive criticism does not have to be worded in such a way as to make the OP seem stupid and the critic seem like God's gift.

[tinyelvis]

I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with the tone of the responses in this thread. Once again "I'm leeter than you OMG noob" rules over basic humanity and basic human interaction.

Constructive criticism does not have to be worded in such a way as to make the OP seem stupid and the critic seem like God's gift.

I agree, sometimes people go too far with criticisms. Implying that a forum contributor is inhumane with sub human interaction skills makes them look pretty stupid or worse and makes you appear to be God's gift for pronouncing it.

Its interesting how people usually take the "I want you to stop, but its ok for me to do it" attitude.

[tinyelvis]

The difference between your caster and a wf caster who can be trusted to kite Suulomades during ToD with no babysitter.

I am guessing you are still pretty new to the raid or at least are not aware of current tactics. Anyone with jump can easily kite Suuly (regardless of hitpoints and baby sitter). My caster also kites the shadow devils. With all due respect, I don't think you yet understand that squishy is a play style.

A high save is a tool, if you have it you can use it to your advantage by engaging in higher risk, higher reward tactics than may be appropriate for a toon with 5- 10% more hit ponits. Its all well and good to say that if you know what you're doing you can avoid having aggro and/or taking damage .. and its certainly true. But the ability to withstand aggro and damage permits you to not spend all your time avoiding those things and instead, when its called for, do what gets the quest done best.

The changed statement is now closer to the truth. Now the original statement may be true for other people with game play styles different from yours. Just because you dont understand does not make it wrong. The fact that you have to rediculously underestimate the hitpoints of a toon should set off warning bells in your head.

The damage in mod9 is only low if you run short groups and/or low difficulties; full groups on hard and elite and its quite regular for the orthons to do up to 60-70 a swing.

Yes thats if you get into melee, and I claim that is low. There is no danger of death before I kill it or otherwise neutralize it. Rarely, however, do I permit anything to melee me. The vast majority of mobs that do this damage and get this close are dancing before they get one slow animated swing off. This means ranged attacks (specifically AOE spell type) are the biggest danger.

Mob damage output is significantly impacted by dungeon scaling, and having hit points lets you do pretty much anything you want. A 550 hit point (my human will have 510, so I'm underselling wf here) quicken-reconstructing wf sorceror with stoneskin, displacement, haste and all the other defensive buffs out there is pretty much the most immortal character on DDO. If you can't think of how that might be something you can use to your advantage, you aren't very creative.

You are correct, it takes no imagination to imagine being commanded for 2 minutes, ten hits in as many seconds at 60 damage per will burn thru those points.


It would be useful for the community if you would outline the extra enhancements, feats, and loot you need to hit 550 hps.

[tinyelvis]

And unfortunately the forums still lack a "solid" WF Sorc build.

Any sorc with half a brain understands you need heighten and web. This is just very simple and basic stuff.

There is no substitute for it. You cannot name another cc spell in the game that has equal features:
AoE
Persistant
Ignores Spell Resistance
Long Duration (1min at 20)



Not detracting from web which is a great spell, especially when you consider some important points you left out (like ability to perform in highest content like end raid where will based enchantments fail). I know there is a lot of room for subjectivity here, but imo there are a couple of spells, including a double enchantment focus Dancing ball that beat it out of the top spot.

AOE
Persistant
Spell resistance is a joke for any well built caster
Long Duration (up to 2 min 30)
Best success rate in game over most end content.

[Hokonoso]

this is a solid build, i'd say 99% of people lvl 20 that only run end game raids for completions never set foot in anything over normal. i mean seriously, why do a raid over normal? who cares if it drops tomes more often, eventually you get them all anyways, some people are very patient and just don't care to make things harder since all they really want is 20 40 and 60 completions.

sure there are some quirks in his build, but it's still solid nonetheless, i'd definitely throw in heighten myself since imo it's the most underrated meta out there, hell i'd drop extend 15 times over before not getting heighten cause seriously, who cares if those melees get a longer haste? also i'd never get rage as i just don't care bout the melee enough, halt undead imo is the best spell in the game (i like killing undead primarily as it makes me feel special :P). but other than those things i'd still call it a solid build that fits a certain (the OPs) playstyle. any new person who wants to make a WF sorc will read the other replies and thus be able to make a toon that fits their playstyle based on that.

[Junts]

It would be useful for the community if you would outline the extra enhancements, feats, and loot you need to hit 550 hps.


New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really

as far as enhancements/etc required for 510 on a human:

16 base con
1x +3 constitution tome
1x Litany of the dead
1x Thamor's ring
1x shroud +2 constitution (can be on ring or sceptre, +2 cha goes on the other of those two)
2x racial toughness enhancements
1x rage
1x yugoloth constitution pot
1x minos legens
1x shroud 45 hp item

that's 507. A wf with 3 more constitution available and up to 2 more racial toughnesses will go higher.

[SimVerg]

New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really


Maybe they handle Suulo like the Koreans?

[Junts]

Not detracting from web which is a great spell, especially when you consider some important points you left out (like ability to perform in highest content like end raid where will based enchantments fail). I know there is a lot of room for subjectivity here, but imo there are a couple of spells, including a double enchantment focus Dancing ball that beat it out of the top spot.

AOE
Persistant
Spell resistance is a joke for any well built caster
Long Duration (up to 2 min 30)
Best success rate in game over most end content.

Most endgame content? You mean a spell which mobs are immune to in:

prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
hound of xoriat
tower of despair
(effectively all the rest of amrath)

is your idea of works in most endgame content?

hell, web works better in monestary

[Junts]

Maybe they handle Suulo like the Koreans?


rofl


That's fair.

[tinyelvis]

Most endgame content? You mean a spell which mobs are immune to in:

prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
hound of xoriat
tower of despair
(effectively all the rest of amrath)

is your idea of works in most endgame content?

hell, web works better in monestary

I was hoping you would show us how you get your 520 hps. This wasnt the typical incredible exaggeration because you have no real defense of your point of view was it? This would be more useful than silly comments.

End game content is certainly subjective. You seem to ignore all the end game content that enchantments work on (essentially most of them). I think your comments here are just silly. Would be like me claiming you stupidly use fire wall and kite on devils and orthons just because you suggested it in other venues.

End Game content where enchantments work better than most other spells on all levels:
A new invasion (19)
Genesis Point (19)
Sins of Attrition (19)
Weapon Shipment (19)
Wrath of Flame (19)
The vast majority of the battlefield slayer area

Enchantments not too useful in these areas, however, flesh to stone works great
Tower of Despair (20)
Bastion of Power (19)

Of the seven highest level quests in the game, five of them and the slayer area are incredibly easy with enchantments. So much so, that the designers decided to further nerf sorcs post Mod 9 who play with this style of play (odd they found the time to do this but no time to fix things like capstone). I didnt notice them nerfing your play style. Further nerfs to the enchantment play style are predicted to come.

All lower level quest (essentially everything pre mod 9), can easily be handled with many many play style (enchantment included). It is not even essential to specialize to be uber effective. For example, in monestary an enchanter could say use wail of the banshee to amazing effect or flesh to stone in prey or firewall on sorjek. Not to mention everyone has a polar ray, cone of cold, web........

Do I need to go further down the list of end game quest to demonstrate your miopic silliness?

[Junts]

I was hoping you would show us how you get your 520 hps. This wasnt the typical incredible exaggeration because you have no real defense of your point of view was it? This would be more useful than silly comments.

End game content is certainly subjective. You seem to ignore all the end game content that enchantments work on (essentially most of them). I think your comments here are just silly. Would be like me claiming you stupidly use fire wall and kite on devils and orthons just because you suggested it in other venues.

End Game content where enchantments work better than most other spells on all levels:
A new invasion (19)
Genesis Point (19)
Sins of Attrition (19)
Weapon Shipment (19)
Wrath of Flame (19)
The vast majority of the battlefield slayer area

Enchantments not too useful in these areas, however, flesh to stone works great
Tower of Despair (20)
Bastion of Power (19)

Of the seven highest level quests in the game, five of them and the slayer area are incredibly easy with enchantments. So much so, that the designers decided to further nerf sorcs post Mod 9 who play with this style of play (odd they found the time to do this but no time to fix things like capstone). I didnt notice them nerfing your play style. Further nerfs to the enchantment play style are predicted to come.

All lower level quest (essentially everything pre mod 9), can easily be handled with many many play style (enchantment included). It is not even essential to specialize to be uber effective. For example, in monestary an enchanter could say use wail of the banshee to amazing effect or flesh to stone in prey or firewall on sorjek. Not to mention everyone has a polar ray, cone of cold, web........

Do I need to go further down the list of end game quest to demonstrate your miopic silliness?

Go 3 posts up for how my human (base 16 con) will get to 510 .. considering a wf can start with 4 more constitution than that, it would be quite easy for a similarly-geared wf to attain a 550.

[tinyelvis]

New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really

as far as enhancements/etc required for 510 on a human:

16 base con
1x +3 constitution tome
1x Litany of the dead
1x Thamor's ring
1x shroud +2 constitution (can be on ring or sceptre, +2 cha goes on the other of those two)
2x racial toughness enhancements
1x rage
1x yugoloth constitution pot
1x minos legens
1x shroud 45 hp item

that's 507. A wf with 3 more constitution available and up to 2 more racial toughnesses will go higher.

mistaken post

[Aspenor]

If they really so desired, the human could drop 4 AP and taken Human Adaptability II in constitution, which should open up the last 2 tiers of Toughness enhancements. I'm not going to spend the time figuring out loot to even the con score, but I'm sure you could acquire +1 exceptional constitution or a larger tome to put you at an even number. That'd result in 547 hit points.

Unfortunately my human is a 28 pt build and won't get quite that high, but that's not really all that big of a deal to me.

Granted that's quite a few AP for hit points, but it is possible.

[smatt]

LOL, there's more frigan ego in this thread than 100 Barry bonds combined........ :D

[Junts]

If they really so desired, the human could drop 4 AP and taken Human Adaptability II in constitution, which should open up the last 2 tiers of Toughness enhancements. I'm not going to spend the time figuring out loot to even the con score, but I'm sure you could acquire +1 exceptional constitution or a larger tome to put you at an even number. That'd result in 547 hit points.

Unfortunately my human is a 28 pt build and won't get quite that high, but that's not really all that big of a deal to me.

Granted that's quite a few AP for hit points, but it is possible.

human adapt con only opens up racial 3, you needa tier 2 toughness (dwarf or wf) for racial 4

I choose not to take racial 3 because I cant afford it .. however, I could hit 520 if I did.


If I did and was a 18/18 build, I'd be at 540.

[Shade]

End Game content where enchantments work better than most other spells on all levels:
A new invasion (19)
Genesis Point (19)
Sins of Attrition (19)
Weapon Shipment (19)
Wrath of Flame (19)
The vast majority of the battlefield slayer area


Not even close to true. Web is superior in all of those quest.
Otto orb (the spell you originally cited) could be a excellent CC spell against devils except for 1 huge problem: Devils can teleport out of it - and if they land on a spot without an orb, they are free, they cannot teleport while webbed.

Then theres the issue of devils having much superior Willsaves and SR vs reflex. For a max Spell pen + enchantment focus build this may not be an issue, for this particular build - and any average sorc, it IS an issue. Almost every pug sorc i've recruited that cast it, all I see is blue fashes and devils teleporting out, it's not nearly as effective as web.

I find Otto's irresitable to the all around superior to the ball as its has a much better duration and even if they teleport as you dance them, they at least stay dancing on the other end for its duration (which's bare minimum is ~8 seconds, far superior to the 2 seconds on the orb)

Just plain fact for anyone who plays a good CC sorc.
I can go into all of those quests, and bastion too and web over 80% of the mobs, even on elite. Infact just did a Elite bastion that was easier then most normal runs, as we had a wiz and sorc casting web - and they got about 95% of mobs webbed, barely any healing was required. The same just cannot be done with ottos orb.

[Aspenor]

Not even close to true. Web is superior in all of those quest.
Otto orb (the spell you originally cited) could be a excellent CC spell against devils except for 1 huge problem: Devils can teleport out of it - and if they land on a spot without an orb, they are free, they cannot teleport while webbed.

Then theres the issue of devils having much superior Willsaves and SR vs reflex. For a max Spell pen + enchantment focus build this may not be an issue, for this particular build - and any average sorc, it IS an issue. Almost every pug sorc i've recruited that cast it, all I see is blue fashes and devils teleporting out, it's not nearly as effective as web.

I find Otto's irresitable to the all around superior to the ball as its has a much better duration and even if they teleport as you dance them, they at least stay dancing on the other end for its duration (which's bare minimum is ~8 seconds, far superior to the 2 seconds on the orb)

Just plain fact for anyone who plays a good CC sorc.
I can go into all of those quests, and bastion too and web over 80% of the mobs, even on elite. Infact just did a Elite bastion that was easier then most normal runs, as we had a wiz and sorc casting web - and they got about 95% of mobs webbed, barely any healing was required. The same just cannot be done with ottos orb.

Unrelated to the strategic differences, Otto's Dancing Sphere creates significant lag for people with lower end machines. Every time I'm in a party where somebody casts it, somebody else says "please do not cast that spell it, it makes me lag."

[bobbryan2]

LOL, there's more frigan ego in this thread than 100 Barry bonds combined........ :D

Well, now it's a sorc thread.

[tinyelvis]

as far as enhancements/etc required for 510 on a human:

16 base con
1x +3 constitution tome
1x Litany of the dead
1x Thamor's ring
1x shroud +2 constitution (can be on ring or sceptre, +2 cha goes on the other of those two)
2x racial toughness enhancements
1x rage
1x yugoloth constitution pot
1x minos legens
1x shroud 45 hp item

that's 507. A wf with 3 more constitution available and up to 2 more racial toughnesses will go higher.
Its funny, I've seen videos you posted of your capped toon. He only seems to run with 410 hps. Also, I think its funny I comment that 18 constitution is probably overkill and the toon you use to refute me is one with 16 constitution. But never mind, the items and enhancements you posted are reasonable for someone focused on hit points.

Lets add things up shall we,
Constitution based additions:
base con +16
constitution tome +3
Litany of the dead +1
Thamor's ring +1
shroud item +2
yugoloth pot +2

Hmm, thats only 25. I think my Drow has more con. Oh wait, you probably forgot the +6 con item. What you really need is a fellow who watches your every post and reports any small mistake no matter how little it relates to your overall theme or post. (I am lucky. Like the Calculus teacher with the smarty pants in the front row always pointing out the fogotten minus sign, I have "MrCow" who scrutinizes everything I write looking for the smallest error or mistype. This really helps to keep me on my toes. Its fortunate for other folk too since often when I quote them "MrCow" will post corrections to my posts even though its others mistakes as though they are mine. He is correct to do this, for I do often neglect to post a disclaimer.) Anyway, I digress.

Lets give you a +6 con item. Now, if I have not made a mistake that is 31 Con and a +10 bonus. You do realize dont you that this is an odd number. You are wasting an item slot and point here. You sure you dont want to go back an edit that hasty post?

Your total bonus then is,
Constitution 10 * 20 = 200
Toughness feat = 22
2 toughness enhancements = 20
minos legens = 20
shroud item = 45
Total bonus = 307

This means (not withstanding a dumb mistake) your base sorcerer hitpoints are 200 points. Wow, the rest of us only get 100 (including the heroic durability). How did you manage to pull off double the base hitpoints? You sure you dont want to go back and edit that post now. Dont shoot the messenger, you didnt really think I would not add up your numbers did you? Look instead of trying to pull the wool over our face, why dont you just tell us what your base hps are, your hps due to feats, and those due to enhancements. Then break em down for us. My guess is you only run with around 400 hps anyway. Oh, and btw, you cant count a buff like rage. LOL, that was a nice move trying to sneak that in. There are many more buffs than just rage....lol. You can gain a whole lot of hitpoints that way, but anyone can regardless of build and/or race. Rage...lol. good one.

Ok, all of the mistakes and missrepresentations aside. A Hafling, or a dwarf or a Drow or WF for that matter could collect the same gear (and most do, myself included). Furthermore, if a sorcerer wanted to reduce his spell casting effectiveness, he could pick up the same feats and enhancements. Or, a caster could elect to reduce his hitpoint by a very small fraction (around 10 or less %) with a smaller base constitution and pick up some other stat. Lets look at some examples.

A Drow could
20 charisma, 12 con, 16 dex (or other stat(s))
He would only have a mere 40 less hitpoints. In exchange, he gets +4 to his dex saves.

A WF could
16 charisma, 12 con, 16 dex (or other stat(s)). Again, +4 bonus to dex saves and skills

40 hitpoints dont mean squat in the end content. Even by your own comments and numbers


orthons to do up to 60-70 a swingThis is mearly equivalent to just 50-60% of a single melee hit. Meanwhile, one reflex save against say a DBF will save you at least this much. Nevermind, the multitude more saves you will make with a +4 better reflex save.

Please note: (especially you MrCow) the views quoted here are not necessarily the view of the author. They are views of others used for demonstration purposes only. Please refer all corrections to the quoted individual. Just kidding Cow, your corrections are welcomed.

[Junts]

Its funny, I've seen videos you posted of your capped toon. He only seems to run with 410 hps. Also, I think its funny I comment that 18 constitution is probably overkill and the toon you use to refute me is one with 16 constitution. But never mind, the items and enhancements you posted are reasonable for someone focused on hit points.

Lets add things up shall we,
Constitution based additions:
base con +16
constitution tome +3
Litany of the dead +1
Thamor's ring +1
shroud item +2
yugoloth pot +2

Hmm, thats only 25. I think my Drow has more con. Oh wait, you probably forgot the +6 con item. What you really need is a fellow who watches your every post and reports any small mistake no matter how little it relates to your overall theme or post. (I am lucky. Like the Calculus teacher with the smarty pants in the front row always pointing out the fogotten minus sign, I have "MrCow" who scrutinizes everything I write looking for the smallest error or mistype. This really helps to keep me on my toes. Its fortunate for other folk too since often when I quote them "MrCow" will post corrections to my posts even though its others mistakes as though they are mine. He is correct to do this, for I do often neglect to post a disclaimer.) Anyway, I digress.

Lets give you a +6 con item. Now, if I have not made a mistake that is 31 Con and a +10 bonus. You do realize dont you that this is an odd number. You are wasting an item slot and point here. You sure you dont want to go back an edit that hasty post?

Your total bonus then is,
Constitution 10 * 20 = 200
Toughness feat = 22
2 toughness enhancements = 20
minos legens = 20
shroud item = 45
Total bonus = 307

This means (not withstanding a dumb mistake) your base sorcerer hitpoints are 200 points. Wow, the rest of us only get 100 (including the heroic durability). How did you manage to pull off double the base hitpoints? You sure you dont want to go back and edit that post now. Dont shoot the messenger, you didnt really think I would not add up your numbers did you? Look instead of trying to pull the wool over our face, why dont you just tell us what your base hps are, your hps due to feats, and those due to enhancements. Then break em down for us. My guess is you only run with around 400 hps anyway. Oh, and btw, you cant count a buff like rage. LOL, that was a nice move trying to sneak that in. There are many more buffs than just rage....lol. You can gain a whole lot of hitpoints that way, but anyone can regardless of build and/or race. Rage...lol. good one.

Ok, all of the mistakes and missrepresentations aside. A Hafling, or a dwarf or a Drow or WF for that matter could collect the same gear (and most do, myself included). Furthermore, if a sorcerer wanted to reduce his spell casting effectiveness, he could pick up the same feats and enhancements. Or, a caster could elect to reduce his hitpoint by a very small fraction (around 10 or less %) with a smaller base constitution and pick up some other stat. Lets look at some examples.

A Drow could
20 charisma, 12 con, 16 dex (or other stat(s))
He would only have a mere 40 less hitpoints. In exchange, he gets +4 to his dex saves.

A WF could
16 charisma, 12 con, 16 dex (or other stat(s)). Again, +4 bonus to dex saves and skills

40 hitpoints dont mean squat in the end content. Even by your own comments and numbers

This is mearly equivalent to just 50-60% of a single melee hit. Meanwhile, one reflex save against say a DBF will save you at least this much. Nevermind, the multitude more saves you will make with a +4 better reflex save.

Please note: (especially you MrCow) the views quoted here are not necessarily the view of the author. They are views of others used for demonstration purposes only. Please refer all corrections to the quoted individual. Just kidding Cow, your corrections are welcomed.

407 standing hp
20 rage
40 yugoloth pot

+40 more from additional brackets

I do not always choose to burn 1000 platinum for appearances in an easy quest and/or demonstration, like the firewall movie.


You asked for significant loot, so I listed that .. I didn't include con, gfl, or any other equipment slots that I assume every character has.


Rage and other long-duration con buffs are a reliable source of hp becuase they are restorable .. adding bonus hp ala aid or greater heroism does not allow you to later re-heal to that total .. rage does, and hence it's worth including in any sum.


You also left out human adapt con, which is why the number's not odd. 32 con, 34 raged.

[tinyelvis]

Not even close to true. Web is superior in all of those quest.
Otto orb (the spell you originally cited) could be a excellent CC spell against devils except for 1 huge problem: Devils can teleport out of it - and if they land on a spot without an orb, they are free, they cannot teleport while webbed.

If you fight in the orb devils will stay in orb, and once nabbed evil outsiders almost never teleport out. It is more likely that they will make a strength save in your web than bug out of a dancing ball. However, again, web is great. I carry and use it.

Then theres the issue of devils having much superior Willsaves and SR vs reflex. For a max Spell pen + enchantment focus build this may not be an issue, for this particular build - and any average sorc, it IS an issue. Almost every pug sorc i've recruited that cast it, all I see is blue fashes and devils teleporting out, it's not nearly as effective as web.

This is a good point and is why I added that to my statement.

I find Otto's irresitable to the all around superior to the ball as its has a much better duration and even if they teleport as you dance them, they at least stay dancing on the other end for its duration (which's bare minimum is ~8 seconds, far superior to the 2 seconds on the orb)

I use both all of the time. Sometimes its superior, sometimes not. In fact, I was using Otto's day one when the typical caster was gripping about casters being dead.

Just plain fact for anyone who plays a good CC sorc.
I can go into all of those quests, and bastion too and web over 80% of the mobs, even on elite. Infact just did a Elite bastion that was easier then most normal runs, as we had a wiz and sorc casting web - and they got about 95% of mobs webbed, barely any healing was required. The same just cannot be done with ottos orb.



It would be useful to know what the reflex and strength saves are in this quest on normal hard and elite. People can toss anecdotal comments all day, but a few numbers easily clears up the discussion.

[Aspenor]

Yugoloth potions give +4 con?

FWIW, my calculations on a sorcerer with 30 con are coming to exactly 487 hit points, and I could be missing something that'd make up for the extra 20.

Base 80
Heroic Durability 20
CON bonus 200
GFL 30
SHroud 45
Toughness 22
Enhancements 20
Minos 20
Draconic 10
Rage 20
Yugoloth 20
= 487

Second edit: well, with a +4 tome, having 31 CON, he'd have 507. Found it. :)

[SimVerg]

Yugoloth pots give +2 con and +20hp.

[Aspenor]

Yugoloth pots give +2 con and +20hp.

yeah, i figured out that was a typo. I found the hit points that were missing, though. :)

[tinyelvis]

407 standing hp
20 rage
40 yugoloth pot

+40 more from additional brackets

I do not always choose to burn 1000 platinum for appearances in an easy quest and/or demonstration, like the firewall movie.


You asked for significant loot, so I listed that .. I didn't include con, gfl, or any other equipment slots that I assume every character has.


Rage and other long-duration con buffs are a reliable source of hp becuase they are restorable .. adding bonus hp ala aid or greater heroism does not allow you to later re-heal to that total .. rage does, and hence it's worth including in any sum.

Yes, that's more like it. The firewall movie was good. More movies like that would help new players (and old). Other good buffs are GH and heros feast for fear immunity. Plus I often employ false life wands and wouldnt fault someone for taking and casting the spell. All these aside, I choose to (in addition to other things) forego the 40 extra hitpoints in favor of +4 reflex save. Nothing you or any other knowledgable person has said has even come close to convincing me otherwise ( Not that you guys are dumb, but I have had this conversation with extremely smart people who bring up better counter points and still remain unconvinced).

It may work for you and your playstyle, but not mine. I can solo the sully like endboss in new invasion (even when the rest of the party is dead). I can and do kite the shadow devils and could pathetically easily hand Saully in the last fight. With my WF, I run portals and kill beholders in hound. I charm or kite all mobs in enter kobold and help finish off boss if necessary all at same time. I handle all of the bats in VOD and can deal with any devils if needed plus nuke the **** out of boss at end. I shave lots of damage off of Harry enabling more easily 1 round part IVs in shroud and routinely solo Sorjek for the party. I do all of these things with around 300 hitpoints. I could do them with 200.

[Aspenor]

Yes, that's more like it. The firewall movie was good. More movies like that would help new players (and old). Other good buffs are GH and heros feast for fear immunity. Plus I often employ false life wands and wouldnt fault someone for taking and casting the spell. All these aside, I choose to (in addition to other things) forego the 40 extra hitpoints in favor of +4 reflex save. Nothing you or any other knowledgable person has said has even come close to convincing me otherwise ( Not that you guys are dumb, but I have had this conversation with extremely smart people who bring up better counter points and still remain unconvinced).

It may work for you and your playstyle, but not mine. I can solo the sully like endboss in new invasion (even when the rest of the party is dead). I can and do kite the shadow devils and could pathetically easily hand Saully in the last fight. With my WF, I run portals and kill beholders in hound. I charm or kite all mobs in enter kobold and help finish off boss if necessary all at same time. I handle all of the bats in VOD and can deal with any devils if needed plus nuke the **** out of boss at end. I shave lots of damage off of Harry enabling more easily 1 round part IVs in shroud and routinely solo Sorjek for the party. I do all of these things with around 300 hitpoints. I could do them with 200.

That's your choice, but we can do all of those things with 200 more hit points. Isn't this game great?

[tinyelvis]

That's your choice, but we can do all of those things with 200 more hit points. Isn't this game great?

Thats great, whatever it takes for you to get the job done. You do things your way, others will do things a different way. Please stop implying that that build is somehow superior to other builds.

[Aspenor]

Thats great, whatever it takes for you to get the job done. You do things your way, others will do things a different way. Please stop implying that that build is somehow superior to other builds.

I will as soon as you stop implying yours is superior. ;)

[SimVerg]

yeah, i figured out that was a typo. I found the hit points that were missing, though. :)

No, you're not understanding. As two separate but stacking effects, the Yugoloth con pots give: +2 con and +20hp.

[Aspenor]

No, you're not understanding. As two separate but stacking effects, the Yugoloth con pots give: +2 con and +20hp.

Ahh gotcha. I had not tried drinking one of the CON potions, only strength so far (since the only character with the pots so far can easily sacrifice the 5 will save for 2 more strength).

Do the con potions have any negative side effects? (would test it now but I am currently unable to connect to the game)

[Junts]

Ahh gotcha. I had not tried drinking one of the CON potions, only strength so far (since the only character with the pots so far can easily sacrifice the 5 will save for 2 more strength).

Do the con potions have any negative side effects? (would test it now but I am currently unable to connect to the game)

we've tested a lot and have not found it, though we assume there is one.

the save loss is only 4

each potion should have one non-stat benefit and one penalty, but we don't know them all yet

wis is 4 natural armor, 2 wisdom, -4 reflex
int is regen 1 sp/tick, 2 int, -50% fort
con is 20 hp, 2 con, -???
str is ???, 2 strength, -4 will
dex is ???, 2 dex, -2 hit
cha is ???, 2 cha, -4 fort

[mediocresurgeon]

Well, I've been thinking about it. To everyone who pointed out that Blur should be swapped for Web, I now agree with you. There is really no point in keeping Blur around if I have Displace and Sleet Storm at my disposal. I believe I have been very clear that Web is by no means the universal solution to crowd control, it does have its uses.

Updated.

As for Heighten vs other feats:
If I were to swap a feat for Heighten, it would almost certainly be for Spell Penetration II, not Force of Personality. As noted in the initial description of this build, I pointed out that it must be able to solo Cursed Crypt with ease. Without Force of Personality, this drops the build's Will save to dangerous levels in the final fight, where Greater Command is the biggest killer. Keep in mind (at least with the current equipment loaded) that a +10 base save, -2 ability, and +3 from Nightshield just isn't going to cut it (that gives a qualitative 50-50 failure rate) when facing the vampire and the Silver Flame clerics. You cannot dodge Cometfall while Commanded!

If anyone feels that they have a more effective equipment setup (bearing in mind the playstyle I outlined) I would be thrilled to see it. (I'm not one of those people who believes that they have nothing to learn because they have played the game for 3+ years.) Thank you to those who have taken the time to respond with constructive criticism and an open mind.

2cp:
I used to run Otto's Dancing Sphere as a "must-have" spell on my casters, but have given it up. There are too many monsters that have blanket immunities to make it worthwhile anymore. I will often take Symbol of Stunning as a substitute for Otto's Dancing Sphere because it is the same spell level and lands against more monsters.

[Junts]

Well, I've been thinking about it. To everyone who pointed out that Blur should be swapped for Web, I now agree with you. There is really no point in keeping Blur around if I have Displace and Sleet Storm at my disposal. I beleive I have been very clear that Web is by no means the universal solution to crowd control, it does have its uses.

Updated.

As for Heighten vs other feats:
If I were to swap a feat for Heighten, it would almost certainly be for Spell Penetration II, not Force of Personality. As noted in the initial description of this build, I pointed out that it must be able to solo Cursed Crypt with ease. Without Force of Personality, this drops the build's Will save to dangerous levels in the final fight, where Greater Command is the biggest killer. Keep in mind (at least with the current equipment loaded) that a +10 base save, -2 ability, and +3 from Nightshield just isn't going to cut it (that gives a 50-50 failure rate) when facing the vampire and the Silver Flame clerics. You cannot dodge Cometfall while Commanded!

If anyone feels that they have a more effective equipment setup (bearing in mind the playstyle I outlined) I would be thrilled to see it. (I'm not one of those people who believes that they have nothing to learn because they have played the game for 3+ years.)

I run cc regularly with a will save in the mid 20s without an issue .. if you're having problems with greater command in cursed crypt, you aren't running the quest properly, since the entire quest can be done without aggroing a single silver flame caster, and if you do it thus, it doesn't matter if maldetto commands you . .he's still running around in firewalls (both projectinos and the real thing) and dying in lightning speed.

Perhaps you need some lessons in running cursed crypt :P

Arguing that you need to waste an entire feat slot on a feat that is applicable against two spells which are rarely cast at high level and avoidable at low level is laughable. My human sorc -doesnt even wear a wisdom item-, and I haven't been greater commanded or dancing sphere'd in longer than I can remember.

[mediocresurgeon]

Perhaps you need some lessons in running cursed crypt :P

Care to share your strategy in a seperate thread? I know how to avoid aggro of silver flame when fighting Projections, but not the final fight.


My human sorc -doesnt even wear a wisdom item-, and I haven't been greater commanded or dancing sphere'd in longer than I can remember.

My worry is not that I will get Commanded, or even Cometfalled. My worry is that I will be repeatedly commanded, then cometfalled, then commanded, then cometfalled, etc. I am ashamed to admit that I release out of about 10% of my solo Cursed Crypt runs because I cannot stand up. This is why my Human sorcerer now has Force of Personality, but did not originally.



Arguing that you need to waste an entire feat slot on a feat that is applicable against two spells which are rarely cast at high level and avoidable at low level is laughable.

Perhaps after I learn your strategy, this will no longer be a factor.

[SimVerg]

Arguing that you need to waste an entire feat slot on a feat that is applicable against two spells which are rarely cast at high level and avoidable at low level is laughable. My human sorc -doesnt even wear a wisdom item-, and I haven't been greater commanded or dancing sphere'd in longer than I can remember.

Warforged Sorcs; doing the jobs humans won't(like kiting the lt's in part 5 where Gnoll casts GCom).

Also gear should be something like

Minos
Torq
Litany
Napkin
6 con GFL
6 str +3 exceptional con ring(swap with a Greater Ice 8 if you want an item for Polar Ray instead of clickies)
6 wis +3 exceptional cha
Glacier Gloves
Boots Swap Spot(FOM, Firestorm, Striding, FF...whatever)
45 hp GS Bracers and your choice of tempered 1(for concentration), bolas(for balance), or Conc Opp(for the expensive win) or some guard
SP Goggles
DT w/ resist 5, +6 cha, GSP 8
skiver/potency 6...can swap to 7 if you want to use DBF, or swap your neck to embers

Changes, even drastic ones, can be made to get individual pieces of gear you may want or replaces ones you can't get but this is a good ideal.

[mediocresurgeon]

gear should be something like

Minos
Torq
Litany
Napkin
6 con GFL
6 str +3 exceptional con ring(swap with a Greater Ice 8 if you want an item for Polar Ray instead of clickies)
6 wis(or str if you carry a lot of garbage like me and have FoP/don't care about will saves) +3 exceptional cha
Glacier Gloves
Boots Swap Spot(FOM, Firestorm, Striding, FF...whatever)
45 hp GS Bracers and your choice of tempered 1(for concentration), bolas(for balance), or Conc Opp(for the expensive win) or some guard
SP Goggles
DT w/ resist 5, +6 cha, GSP 8
skiver/potency 6...can swap to 7 if you want to use DBF, or swap your neck to embers

Changes, even drastic ones, can be made to get individual pieces of gear you may want or replaces ones you can't get but this is a good ideal.

Thanks. I put Intimidate on my sorcerer because I considered wearing a Torq and multitple concordant opp items later, and wanted to reserve it as an option. I did not mention this in the build I posted. I noticed a screenshot of Greater Devotion 8 on a crafted ring... through it might be handy to have a Cold version, but wasn't sure if crafting a ring just for Polar Ray would really be worth it (I really only use it in The Shroud). The only problem I have with the build posted here is that it is missing +3 Exceptional Charisma. For that, I would probably grab the Band of Siberys and put +2 exceptional Cha on it instead of the constitution. Hmm... *starts making alternate equipment list for sp regen strategy*

+1 rep

[Junts]

This is simple and you're free to do what you like with it, of course, the only essential involves how you enter the room

Featherfall, stand on the edge of the dropdown (at teh shrine) facing south, and sneak.

while falling, hold forward so that you will featherfall down to land against the far south wall of Maldetto's room. When you land, cast one firewall. DO NOT MOVE.

Stand still and let the firewall kill the green ghosts.

Here's the deal:

The south wall is outside the sight sense radius of the silver flame. It is only within their hearing distance. To put this simply, the only way you an aggro the silver flame is by taking non-sneaking steps until you are pretty close to them. If you stand against the south wall, you are free to cast any spell you like and even attack maldetto (once you get him there) as long as you never, ever, ever take a non-sneaking step in the room.

Maldetto, however, has great spot, so he will see you sneaking as long a you et into his field of view. Howeve,r when he aggros he does not aggro the silver flame automatically. So you want to sneak out into maldetto's vision or hearing radius, depending on his location (if hes closer to you than the flame, use hearing radius, if he's on the other side of them, you want to get into his sight range (he has wide peripheral vision)

As soon as he sees you, sneak back to the wall, throw one firewall on top of yourself (if your old one is gone) and one on top of him. The one on yourself is in case he vanishes and makes wolves.

As long as you stand still, you will never aggro the flame. Once maldetto has a firewall on him, he'll melt .. on normal, especially solo, his hp are nonexistent. A single disintegrate with 2 firewall ticks will kill him (make sure that he is not standing between you and a silver flame, as you don't want him to vanish at the last minute and tag a flame with a disintegrate).

The reason this works is that, as mrcow could probably tell you, only moving creates noise in the ddo stealth system. If you are standing still, you must be visually seen in order to aggro a mob. The sounds of combat and casting and being hit that we hear as players are not sound to ddo mobs, and they do not hear combat occuring 15 feet behind them as long as you never take a step. If you so much as inch outside sneak mode, though, they will turn around and blitz you.

While it is remotely possible that maldetto will greater command you before you can put a firewall on him and consequently cometfall you to death while you fail saves, I think you will find that it is extremely unlikely to occur (its happened to me once) and that a much more obnoxious problem is that he's likely to power word blind you before he dies (since it has no save).

You might have issues a couple times practicing this, but as long as you remember that the back wall is absolutely safe as long as you never move outside sneak mode, you're free to carefully pull and nuke Maldetto. Also, by standing on that wall and facing him, you will have a great view of silver flame in case you see one turn around and start to move towards a sound. a tiny stpe will often make them shift without actually moving to you (or you may stealth too close to them getting maldetto), and if one does make for you, you'll see it coming and be able to fire edrain+fts off before it reaches your firewalls.

I prefer to disintegrate maldetto twice and not put a firewall on him, which is slightly more risky in the 'get greater commanded' way and less risky in the 'it wont kill sivler flame if they aggro somehow' way, but its really pretty academic in either regard.

[SimVerg]

Thanks. I put Intimidate on my sorcerer because I considered wearing a Torq and multitple concordant opp items later, and wanted to reserve it as an option. I did not mention this in the build I posted. I noticed a screenshot of Greater Devotion 8 on a crafted ring... through it might be handy to have a Cold version, but wasn't sure if crafting a ring just for Polar Ray would really be worth it (I really only use it in The Shroud). The only problem I have with the build posted here is that it is missing +3 Exceptional Charisma. For that, I would probably grab the Band of Siberys and put +2 exceptional Cha on it instead of the constitution. Hmm... *starts making alternate equipment list for sp regen strategy*

+1 rep

It has +3 cha on the second ring. If you want an intimidate item, you can replace the +3 con ring with a 15 intim one.

[mediocresurgeon]

Insert strategy here

Thanks, I'll give this a shot.
+1 rep

[Junts]

Warforged Sorcs; doing the jobs humans won't(like kiting the lt's in part 5 where Gnoll casts GCom).

Also gear should be something like

Minos
Torq
Litany
Napkin
6 con GFL
6 str +3 exceptional con ring(swap with a Greater Ice 8 if you want an item for Polar Ray instead of clickies)
6 wis +3 exceptional cha
Glacier Gloves
Boots Swap Spot(FOM, Firestorm, Striding, FF...whatever)
45 hp GS Bracers and your choice of tempered 1(for concentration), bolas(for balance), or Conc Opp(for the expensive win) or some guard
SP Goggles
DT w/ resist 5, +6 cha, GSP 8
skiver/potency 6...can swap to 7 if you want to use DBF, or swap your neck to embers

Changes, even drastic ones, can be made to get individual pieces of gear you may want or replaces ones you can't get but this is a good ideal.

Torc is significantly more important for a wf caster than a non-wf caster, deserves some emphasis. I have one and use it only situationally, but I'd be building my eq around it if I were a wf.

[Junts]

Thanks, I'll give this a shot.
+1 rep


The hardest part is remembering you cannot afford to move ever when a mob is aggroed on you, as being hit in the middle of a step will make it non-sneak and get you attacked

You have to stand totally still while letting the ghosts die in the firewall, and once Maldetto is within spell range of you (you want to get into a corner or to that wall before he can reach you) you again cannot move, even if wolves are up .. you want to have a firewall waiting in the place you're running to.

You can cast a way from the wall too by standing still, casting and re-sneaking, it also won't pull aggro but it may compromise your status as in line of vision, remember hte mobs tend to have 180 degree fields of view.

[Junts]

Thanks. I put Intimidate on my sorcerer because I considered wearing a Torq and multitple concordant opp items later, and wanted to reserve it as an option. I did not mention this in the build I posted. I noticed a screenshot of Greater Devotion 8 on a crafted ring... through it might be handy to have a Cold version, but wasn't sure if crafting a ring just for Polar Ray would really be worth it (I really only use it in The Shroud). The only problem I have with the build posted here is that it is missing +3 Exceptional Charisma. For that, I would probably grab the Band of Siberys and put +2 exceptional Cha on it instead of the constitution. Hmm... *starts making alternate equipment list for sp regen strategy*

+1 rep

My preference is to use noxious embers instead of the skiver (less viable for a wf) and in that hand slot place a 6 str, 6 wis, 1 cha, 2 con concordant opp shroud stick, allowing me to craft on the belt and retain the bracers of the glacier (and glacial assault on the dt) and be free of clicky usage .. for a wf, Sim's arrangement is better because it gets you a static torc.

[Junts]

At first glance this is a fine build, however, the devil is in the details and you are missing a lot. If you plan on getting spell pen and using DC spells its foolish not to have heighten. Dump Extend. It does not help your offense really any. Or dump quicken.

Dc without heighten for the spell
-Finger of Death -2 DC
Flesh To Stone/Disintegrate -3 DC
-Ball Lighting -4 DC
-Cone of Cold -4 DC
-Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC

Web, which you dont have -7 DC. Web works great in the new content. It doesnt suck, just your web does. You will notice a big difference with heighten.

Why are you still wearing blue dragon scales? Get Draconic armor. Your Polar ray must suck without any buffs. At least use the Superior Freeze belt clicky. Again draconic armor and some raid loot to buff it. You can also get draconic with more spell pen on it. In the off hand you should use a lore item. You can get a green blade from demon queen.

As was mentioned you dont really have any crowd control. Do you need mass repair? Irresistible dance is save free (which fits great with your build). This spell will be nerfed soon so take advantage of it while its there. Because of low DC's or poor damage, the only above average offensive spell usable in end content you are currently running with is force missile. Get your DC's up and improve your Polar ray damage at a minimum.

One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.


Aspenor, ask and ye shall recieve.

While I agree with the point being made here ...

[mediocresurgeon]

Here is an alternate equipment setup I just whipped up. It is built to be reliable in situations the party would expect a sorcerer to be reliable, but also benefits from SP regen abilities. I am going to set the limit of 2 greensteel items for this character, whether they be accessories or weapons, because I'd rather spend my ingredients on my melee toons than go overboard with this caster (I don't mind pouring time and resources into it, but it is not going to be my Main).

Goggles: Triple Positive Greensteel (+6 cha skills, +300 sp, raise dead 1/rest)
Helmet: Minos Legens (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/MinosLegens.jpg)
Necklace: Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Necklaces/TorcofPrince-deII.jpg)
Trinket: Litany of the Dead (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Trinkets/LitanyoftheDead.jpg)
Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Cloaks/StormreaversNapkin.jpg)
Belt: Knost's Belt (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/KnostsBelt.jpg)/Belt of the Defender of Siberys (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/BeltoftheDefendersofSiberys.jpg)/Vorne's Belt (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Lamannia/VornesBelt.jpg)
Gloves: Vile Blasphemy (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Gloves/VileBlasphemy.jpg)
Ring1: Band of Siberys (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Rings/BandofSiberys.jpg) (crafted +2 exceptional charisma)
Ring2: Hotswap slot (crafted +40% Ice 8, Feather Fall, Intimidate +15)
Bracers: Neg/Pos/Neg+Pos Greensteel (+45 hp, +6 Wisdom, Concordant Opposition)
Boots: Kundarak Delving Boots (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Boots/KundarakDelvingBoots.jpg)
Docent: Dragontouched (+5 Saves, +6 Charisma, +3 Spell Pen 8)
Off-hand: Skiver (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/Skiver.jpg)
Main Hand: +50% Potency 6

Lack of +40% Potency 7 means that Prismatic Spray would need to be replaced with Symbol of Stunning.
Interesting Fact: These items collectively give +6 to all stats--so I could chug two Silver Flame Potions in a row (not that I would ever need to).

Criticism appreciated.

[tinyelvis]

As for Heighten vs other feats:
If I were to swap a feat for Heighten, it would almost certainly be for Spell Penetration II, not Force of Personality. As noted in the initial description of this build, I pointed out that it must be able to solo Cursed Crypt with ease.

Dont see how you can live without heighten. You might be able to live without a +2 spell pen depending on your other items, play style, and enhancements. If cursed crypt gives you trouble, then I would be very wary about dumping Force of Personality. At the very least it will require you to make a major change in play style. Why do you need extend?

About the crypt, a good solo way is sneaking. Go into sneak mode before you jump down to last fight. Follow advice of Junts from there. I never have an issue with moving however if you stay on far wall. In the pre fights, the best thing to do is go into sneak mode once you enter room. Move to center of room and then sneak toward vamp till he activates. At this point sneak away to opposite side of room. Wait till you pass pillar to attack him back. Once past pillars feel free to move and attack in that area till he is dead. You wont aggro any silver this way.

Even if you do aggro them, they are easy to web, stone.....other. If its your last fight just kill them (so long as you have killed no others). I find enfeeble on elite much more of a headache than anything else cast in this quest and that is almost a non-issue.

[mediocresurgeon]

Dont see how you can live without heighten. You might be able to live without a +2 spell pen depending on your other items, play style, and enhancements. If cursed crypt gives you trouble, then I would be very wary about dumping Force of Personality. At the very least it will require you to make a major change in play style. [sic] About the crypt, a good solo way is sneaking. Go into sneak mode before you jump down to last fight. Follow advice of Junts from there. I never have an issue with moving however if you stay on far wall. In the pre fights, the best thing to do is go into sneak mode once you enter room. Move to center of room and then sneak toward vamp till he activates. At this point sneak away to opposite side of room. Wait till you pass pillar to attack him back. Once past pillars feel free to move and attack in that area till he is dead. You wont aggro any silver this way.

Even if you do aggro them, they are easy to web, stone.....other. If its your last fight just kill them (so long as you have killed no others). I find enfeeble on elite much more of a headache than anything else cast in this quest and that is almost a non-issue.

Thanks for your 2cp. This has view has already been expressed quite thoroughly. In the context of the current situation, I am sure it is clear to other readers that if Junts's Cursed Crypt strategy functions as posted then the feat to be swapped for Heighten Spell would be Force of Personality, since the sole purpose in taking FoP is to assist victories in the final fight of Cursed Crypt.

This assumed feat swap is already assumed into the new equipment outline I've posted (above) by the crafting of a +6 wisdom item to boost Will save (in addition to many other build/equipment synergies).



Why do you need extend?
Functionally, it does not actually increase the damage output of this build nor any assumed party members. Since the above equipment setup assumes a fair amount of mana regen, even spell point efficiency is not the issue.

The issue is because nobody likes 2:00 Hastes, 2:30 Rages or Walls of Fire which need to be recast.

[Stealthdog]

Nevermind....late...

[ddoer]

...

Then theres the issue of devils having much superior Willsaves and SR vs reflex. For a max Spell pen + enchantment focus build this may not be an issue, for this particular build - and any average sorc, it IS an issue. Almost every pug sorc i've recruited that cast it, all I see is blue fashes and devils teleporting out, it's not nearly as effective as web.

I find Otto's irresitable to the all around superior to the ball as its has a much better duration and even if they teleport as you dance them, they at least stay dancing on the other end for its duration (which's bare minimum is ~8 seconds, far superior to the 2 seconds on the orb)

Just plain fact for anyone who plays a good CC sorc.
I can go into all of those quests, and bastion too and web over 80% of the mobs, even on elite. Infact just did a Elite bastion that was easier then most normal runs, as we had a wiz and sorc casting web - and they got about 95% of mobs webbed, barely any healing was required. The same just cannot be done with ottos orb.

In addition, Barbazus in Bastion has DW that Otto Irresistable dance and probably many other enchantment CC spells won't work. Web rules, for sure.

[smatt]

Well, now it's a sorc thread.


Ain't it though :D

[transtemporal]

This spell is not subject to any saving throw, and thus has no DC.

It does for tiny. Polar ray too.

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated:

-Dramatically altered equipment setup
-Updated spell list
-Fixed error with post-equipment stats
-Added +1 tomes to stats to even out ability scores where productive to do so
-Adjusted final saving throws
-Replaced Force of Personality with Heighten Spell

Thanks to everyone for their help on this project!

[MrCow]

[In regards to The Cursed Crypt] Care to share your strategy in a seperate thread? I know how to avoid aggro of silver flame when fighting Projections, but not the final fight.

It is a bit aged, but I had youtube footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-myy03xTgc) of this fight that should show how it is done in the method Junts describes.

[mediocresurgeon]

It is a bit aged, but I had youtube footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-myy03xTgc) of this fight that should show how it is done in the method Junts describes.

Beautiful job! Thank you for sharing that.

[Shade]

It would be useful to know what the reflex and strength saves are in this quest on normal hard and elite. People can toss anecdotal comments all day, but a few numbers easily clears up the discussion.

I can very safely say nothings strength score scales much in the new content. If something is webbed - it's chance of breaking out is very low on my web. As well as being able to trip everything very often on my Barbarians, regardless of difficulty, another str save.

Will saves however do scale up very obviously.

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

-Changed greensteel recipe for Goggles.
-Changed greensteel recipe for Bracers.
-Removed Jump as a trained skill.
-Increased ranks in Intimidate.

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

-Changed layout.
-Added skill totals.
-Added hyperlinks for spells and feats.
-Added Enhancements section.

Does anyone know how to calculate the spell points for a sorcerer? I would like to include the final SP of the build in the stats.

[Aspenor]

Updated.

-Changed layout.
-Added skill totals.
-Added hyperlinks for spells and feats.
-Added Enhancements section.

Does anyone know how to calculate the spell points for a sorcerer? I would like to include the final SP of the build in the stats.

Theres a table on Borr's wiki.

[mediocresurgeon]

Theres a table on Borr's wiki.

Thanks!

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

-Added Spell Point section.
-Added more hyperlinks.
-Clarified saving throws.
-Slight modification to page layout.




When I first posted this build, there were lots of comments on how it could be better. Since then, many modifications in the form of equipment, feats, and spells have been made. As this build currently stands, is it "solid?" Is there anything else which could be added or modified to make it better than it currently is?

Or is this the Paragon Warforged Sorcerer?

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

New introduction and build explanation added.

[fugazi70]

Do you have a 28 point build? This one requires 32:(

[MrCow]

Do you have a 28 point build? This one requires 32

Just dump 4 of the build points that went into CON. This would leave you with a starting stat spread of 8 STR/8 DEX/16 CON/14 INT/6 WIS/16 CHA.

[mediocresurgeon]

Just dump 4 of the build points that went into CON. This would leave you with a starting stat spread of 8 STR/8 DEX/16 CON/14 INT/6 WIS/16 CHA.

Excellent suggestion. I think I will add a 28-point build section.

Edit:
Updated.

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

Modified intro.

[poctech]

I'm a relatively new player and am interested in trying this build..

However I'm confused by what is meant by "ranks" when it comes to skills.

For instance, when I'm rolling the character which skills do I assign points to at level one? ..and then at level two?

"Balance 11 ranks" and "Intimidate 11 ranks" doesn't make any sense to me (from my limited knowledge of the game).

Thanks for any help!


RE:

Skills:
Balance 11 ranks
-Total Balance: +20 (+4 Greater Heroism, +3 dexterity, +2 exceptional)
Concentration 23 ranks
-Total Concentration (32-Point): +46 (+4 Greater Heroism, +9 constitution, +10 competence, +3 exceptional)
Intimidate 11 ranks
-Total Intimidate: +49 (+4 Greater Heroism, +14 charisma, +15 competence, +5 exceptional)
Jump 0 ranks
-Total Jump: +39 (+4 Greater Heroism, +30 Jump, +4 strength, +1 exceptional)
Tumble 1 rank
-Total Tumble: +10 (+4 Greater Heroism, +3 dexterity, +2 exceptional)
Use Magic Device 11 ranks
-Total Use Magic Device: +37 (+4 Greater Heroism, +14 charisma, +3 competence, +5 exceptional)

[mediocresurgeon]

However I'm confused by what is meant by "ranks" when it comes to skills.

For instance, when I'm rolling the character which skills do I assign points to at level one? ..and then at level two?

"Balance 11 ranks" and "Intimidate 11 ranks" doesn't make any sense to me (from my limited knowledge of the game).

Thanks for any help!


At character creation, you have a certain number of skill points to spend on skills. For a warforged sorcerer, this is 8 skill points, plus 4 more skill points per 2 points of intelligence above 10 (example: with 14 intelligence, a level 1 sorcerer would have 16 skill points to spend at level 1). Each additional sorcerer level gives you 2 more skill points, plus 1 more skill point for each 2 points of intelligence beyond 10 (14 intelligence would give you a total of 4 skill points to spend each level).

Skill points are used to purcahse Ranks in skills. Each rank gives you a +1 bonus to that skill. For class skills (such as Concentration, for a sorcerer) each rank costs 1 skill point. For cross-class skills (such as Use Magic Device, Balance, and Intimidate for a sorcerer) each rank costs 2 skill points. The maximum ranks you can have at any level in any one skill is (3 + current level) for class skills and (0.5*[3 + current leve]) for cross-class skills. This is why Balance, Intimidate, and Use Magic Device have only 11 ranks at level 20 instead of 23 ranks, like Concentration.

For this build, most of this technical mumbo-jumbo is irrelevant. At character creation, put as many points into Balance, Concentration, Intimidate, and Use Magic Device as you possibly can. At level 20, instead of putting ranks into these skills, put 1 rank (2 points) into Tumble, and 1 point into Concentration. (You will have an unused skill point to put wherever you want.)

Hope that helps!

[Shade]

Lack of +40% Potency 7 means that Prismatic Spray would need to be replaced with Symbol of Stunning.

Potency items have no effect on the damage of prismatic spray.

It seems to behave as if it has +50% dmg all the time, regardless of whats equipped.

For crit chance, I believe it uses all enhancements, whichever is highest. I had fire maxxed and it crit very hard.. 3000+ on a double ray, 1500ish each.

[mediocresurgeon]

Prismatic Spray seems to behave as if it has +50% dmg all the time, regardless of whats equipped

Hey, that's kind of cool. Is that working as intended, or is it going to be "fixed"?

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

-Clarified why SP regen items were included in the Optimal Gear section.

[onethreeone]

Good build and discussion, even if the comments didn't start out in the friendliest manner...

For a newbie Sorc looking to make the initial levels as easy as possible, what would you consider decent twink gear got levels 2-6 or so? +SP effects, +crit, or just trying to get as much AC to survive? For instance, I'm assuming the eternal acid wand from WW would be a good pickup.

[mediocresurgeon]

For a newbie Sorc looking to make the initial levels as easy as possible, what would you consider decent twink gear got levels 2-6 or so?
For levels 2-6 you don't really have a lot of options. Something which adds to Cold damage if you take Niacs for early game pwnage, or Force if you prefer Magic Missile. At level 6 you can find a +40% Potency 3 weapon, which is the same level you get Fireball--This will be your best weapon until level 8, when you get Wall of Fire. (Don't be afraid to take spells that are not on my list--my list is for what a level 20 character should have, not what you should be taking early game).



+SP effects
+50 SP trinket is available as a static end reward from Tangleroot (F2P players need to purchase this).



+crit
Don't bother until higher levels.


or just trying to get as much AC to survive?
You will never, ever have a useful AC at any level with this build. Instead of boosting your AC, practice using hand/eye coordination to dodge enemy attacks. 99% of attacks can be dodged in this way with enough practice.



For instance, I'm assuming the eternal acid wand from WW would be a good pickup.
Not really. Although you never will run out of ammo, the poor damage per attack makes it a poor choice, even if you are out of mana. If you have the gold on another character, consider purchasing large quantities of Flame Sphere scrolls (spam these, you can have 7+ up at any one time) and Scorching Ray wands (4d6 direct fire damage).

[poctech]

Hope that helps!

Excellent, thanks for the help!

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

Swapped locations of Greensteel. The original locations were technically viable, but for a solo artist casting Deathward from a clicky it now costs 45 hp instead of 300 SP.

[Favis]

I think it's nice that someone put the work into do this (as the most Sorc builds have been human) and incoperated the feedback.

[Gorbadoc]

The grumpy people are annoying, but the updated OP is good.

By coincidence, I rolled a very similar build a couple months ago; EXACT same stats. He's level 16 now, and he's been a ton of fun. We have a few differences:

1) Stealth. I strongly recommend you take Invisibility and use it whenever you can. It's good to know how the AI responds to invisibility under various circumstances. As a matter of personal preference, I also took ranks in Hide and Move Silently (no ranks in Intimidate and fewer ranks in Balance). I'm not sure what moderate stealth skills will allow me to do, but that's what I'm hoping to find out.

2) Mass Suggestion. In the content where it actually works, it's the best level 6 spell, hands down. Seriously, anyone building a sorcerer, make Mass Suggestion your first level 6 spell pick. You can switch it out when you start fighting devils, if you so desire. Just remember to cast it BEFORE your party gets aggro.

3) Enlarge. I love Glitterdust. I love Firewall. I love Mass Suggestion. I love being able to dump these spells on monsters that are too far away to get aggro on me under the new AI rules. This is very much a matter of preference; once I make my level 18 feat pick, it looks like I'll be missing Empower or Quicken, both of which are important. On the subject of feats, I would also like to take Toughness, but I doubt that's going to happen.

4) Chain Lightning. Until Turbine gets around to fixing it, you need Enlarge to make it work properly. I'm still undecided on my preferred method of nuking; if I go lightning/acid, though, I want Chain Lightning over Ball Lightning; it's better damage, and it's easier to target.

There are other differences in our spell picks, but it's level 6 that has the real tough decisions; I would love to be able to have Flesh To Stone, Disintegrate, Reconstruct, and Tenser's Transformation. Meanwhile, I wouldn't feel choked up if I had to give up Banishment for Symbol of Stunning, and you probably wouldn't feel too bad about giving up Scorching Ray for a utility spell, seeing as you have other single-target nukes.

[mediocresurgeon]

you probably wouldn't feel too bad about giving up Scorching Ray for a utility spell, seeing as you have other single-target nukes.

At the time I write this message I am level 16. You're right about Scorching Ray--if it is subject to Fire damage I'd rather cast Wall of Fire, and if I am looking for single-target DPS I usually go for Force Missile. Invisibility is a spell I have been considering as a replacement, now that it seems to function similarly to how one would expect it to (woo hoo for new AI!).

[mediocresurgeon]

This character is nearly capped now, and while my 20th Shroud completion is still quite a ways away, I'm not sure if a +45 hp item is best built as a dual-purpose Concentration item.

Can anyone confirm whether or not multiple Concordant Opposition items have an individual chance to proc? If they do, that would be much more valuable than +13 concentration (especially considering that this build uses Quicken nearly everywhere except buffing).

[Hokonoso]

This character is nearly capped now, and while my 20th Shroud completion is still quite a ways away, I'm not sure if a +45 hp item is best built as a dual-purpose Concentration item.

Can anyone confirm whether or not multiple Concordant Opposition items have an individual chance to proc? If they do, that would be much more valuable than +13 concentration (especially considering that this build uses Quicken nearly everywhere except buffing).

yeah all the concordant opp items will have a different proc chance which makes it stack and in theory allow a double stack!!!

just make sure that when doing something say vod you show all the kiddes what the chain does :D

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

My manifestation of this build ("Hydraulics") is now capped and has all major equipment required for the build, minus the Litany. As screenshots of Epic items keep coming in, I will continue to modify equipment goals.

As for Scorching Ray versus Invisibility:
Invisibility, while not useful in most quests or situations, is invaluable in certain high level quests. I am not missing Scorching Ray in the least.

[Arctigis]

Updated.

My manifestation of this build ("Hydraulics") is now capped and has all major equipment required for the build, minus the Litany. As screenshots of Epic items keep coming in, I will continue to modify equipment goals.

As for Scorching Ray versus Invisibility:
Invisibility, while not useful in most quests or situations, is invaluable in certain high level quests. I am not missing Scorching Ray in the least.

Why don't you just scroll invis?

[mediocresurgeon]

I did for a while, but now I don't have to.

[mediocresurgeon]

Updated.

After much consideration, I have eliminated Incendiary Cloud and replaced it with Otto's Irresistible Dance. Incendiary Cloud was intended for DoT DPS against the Abbot, who is vulnerable to fire spells but immune to Wall of Fire. With many casters utilizing the new Phoenix Regalia, taking Incendiary Cloud on a caster incapable of using the +50% Fire 9 clickies is pointless when there is almost always a caster in the group who is able to cast a more powerful Cloud.

[mediocresurgeon]

Quest Specialties:
-Removed Amrath
-Added Epic Vault of Night

Skills:
-Updated totals to reflect new equipment.

Spells:
-Added Meteor Swarm, removed Summon Monster IX
-Added Incendiary Cloud, removed Mass Repair Critical
-Added Cloudkill, removed Break Enchantment

Equipment:
-Removed Amrath Con+GFL belt
-Removed Dragontouched Docent
-Removed Green Steel goggles
-Removed Minos Legens
-Removed Skiver
-Removed ToD Str6+charisma3 ring
-Removed Vile Blasphemy
-Added Concordant Opposition Green Steel helmet
-Added Concordant Opposition Green Steel weapon
-Added Epic Belt of the Mroranon
-Added Epic Bramble-Casters
-Added Epic Ring of the Silver Concord
-Added Epic Kundarak Warding Shield
-Added Epic Spectacles of Spirit Sight
-Added Epic Tinder
-Added Epic Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
-Added Singed Belt

Added more screenshots of items.

[mediocresurgeon]

Due to incoming Concordant Opposition nerf:


A 5% proc rate would be extremely imbalancing if you wore eight of them.


Guard effects should not stack with themselves, so it would be classified as a bug that is potentially subject to change.

I removed redundant Concordant Opposition items and replaced them with other gear.