finding my friends on D&D online [Archive] - Dungeons & Dragons Online Forums

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 12:39 AM

So I have a problem... My friend I both logged into "Khyber", both went to Stormreach and stood outside the Leaky Dingy. We both switched to the same "instance". But we do not see each other... we are not on the "Who" lists either??? How do we find each other so we can play together??? Cuz really isn't that one of the main points of this game? Being able to hook up with your friends and play with them online?? Then to have this obstacle is frustrating and confusing. Someone please help explain this, what are we not doing correctly to play together?

Mithran

09-30-2009, 12:42 AM

If you're in the same realm, and in the same instance, you should be able to see each other.

scidude

09-30-2009, 12:43 AM

Despite your claim to be "in the same instance", I doubt you are. You are probably in different ones. Just /invite the other person and when you go enter a place you will always been in the same place from then on as long as you are grouped.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 12:53 AM

well i began my character in Khyber got through the beginning stuff went over to stormreach... then he logged on to Khyber(he created his character in a diff beginning world, idk which one) and then we both went to the Leaky Dingy bar and attempted to find each other and went into instance 1, nothing, instance 2 nothing, etc..... he can't see me and i can't see him... Is is it because we began in different worlds??? Because now when I log into another world my character doesn't show up??? Is there a way to bring your characters into different worlds??? This is really confusing! I just want to play the game with my friend!

scidude

09-30-2009, 01:10 AM

What do you mean "different world"? You mean server? Your characters need to be on the same server, in the same area/instance, and in the same channel of that instance to see each other. If you can't /invite him than he is not on the right server, assuming he has left korthos island already.

Brennie

09-30-2009, 01:11 AM

In your chat box type "/invite yourfriendsname". Your friend will be invited to join your party. Now whenever you enter a new zone, you and your party will be in the same instance. Be 100% sure you have each others name spelled correctly.

What do you mean by "World"? If hes on another server (Sarlona, Cannith, etc), then you he must create a new character on Khber, or you must jion his server. The servers are completely seperate, and so ar ethe characters on different servers.

If hes simply in a different instance or different region of the same server, you should be able to send tells to each other, at the very least. Also, if you can send a tell, you can right click his name in your chat box and invite him to join your party.

If you cannot even find each other in the "who" panel, I would believe you are either not on the same server, or have each others names wrong.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:00 AM

idk... i thought the list of names like Khyber and Thelanis and the rest were called "worlds" i assumed those are the "servers". I understand what "instances" are the 1-Harbor etc...

So there is no way to have a character you made on in Khyber and take to play with a friend on Thelanis or Argonness or the other "worlds"?????

Why would they do that? If you have a character made shouldn't you be able to play it in any of the worlds??? How do they expect new players to know this? I just spent 3 hours making a character and now I can't even play it with my friend because mine is Khyber and his is in another one? There has to be a way... this is just plain silly. I know I must be missing something, they wouldn't make a game like this and then not be able to play your charcters with friend's... really?

If this is so, they need to have it in big bold letters with a WARNING sign before you create your characters that you must know where each and every one of your friends that also plays online is at. so you don fuq up and have to play by yourself... Plus then theoretically: how do they expect all these different friends that may start the game at different times to magically all pick the same server/world.... this does not make it easy of fun for gameplay. No then they all have to go through and figure out what server-world they are on and then all go create "new" characters??? that is ridiculous... why would anybody want to even do that.

They need to change the log in process then... first long in with your character, then pick the world then go to the location you want to meet your friends at and get on the same instance and ta da... how hard is that? why must you create new characters just to play with your friends? i am not going through the process of creating a new character again, i'll just be done with it if this is how it is.

scidude

09-30-2009, 02:10 AM

They don't have a warning because 99% of MMORPGs use the server based format to distribute the population.

sunkenfaith

09-30-2009, 02:12 AM

Not to sound rude, but is this your first MMORPG that you are playing? All MMORPGs have a world system (WoW, Maple, EQ, blah blah blah blah).

That being said, you just created a character; probably still at level 1 even. It takes like, 10 mins max? to create a new one?

:confused::confused::confused:

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:22 AM

i still don't see why you can't have 1 central character you play that you can take to wherever in the d&d world. i don't get how that will help draw more customers by putting up this roadblock. I still think there must be a way because it would be idiotic on part of the developers to not allow you to take your character and go mingle/adventure with your friends on different servers.... cuz that defeats the purpose of even joining an getting on to go have fun... i don't care to keep track of which of my friends are on which server-worlds and then have to go make characters for each server-world. that is dumb. i even called one of my super-computer game playing nerd friend and he said that he couldn't figure it out either, and he doesn't understand why they make it that way and it is a pain in the arse. way to drive people away from playing your game! If I have friends online playing I should be able to join up with them wherever they are.. If this is true they keep the servers separated then they need to connect them an stop this nonsense.... Yes I agree they should use the servers to distribute the active-users to keep the system from getting bogged down but not separate characters between servers, because really it is all the same game, you all end up in kronoth or whatever that first place is and then you can all go to stormreach... they should use the serveres more like instances and separate activity a different way not characters.

scidude

09-30-2009, 02:27 AM

Why don't you and your friends play on the same server... It's really not that difficult. And if any new friends want to start playing, tell them to join server x. Really doesn't have to be that complicated.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:31 AM

i'm sorry for venting but this just super annoyed the sh!t out of me. i might play the free trial version just to make my play a bit with my 1 friend but i don't think i will buy it... i don't want to be making all sorts of characters to go and meet up with other friends online. After all this I really don't even care to find out what servers they are on or keep track of it. i have other hobbies to enjoy.

Sogrin

09-30-2009, 02:31 AM

one of the main issues with having a character to be able to be played on all "worlds/servers" is that it greatly deminishes the available names for characters.

It would also mean more load times while it loads your characters profile onto the server. It also means if thee is a server crash character information may not get loaded back to your "character file" causing errors or discreprencies (spelling?) with your character, which may require a recreating of said character.

there are just too many technical issues around having a central character depositary then having multiple servers you can send him/her too.

as other people have stated, it is the same for every MMO in existance. it is not like DDO is doing something different to everyone else.

scidude

09-30-2009, 02:38 AM

i'm sorry for venting but this just super annoyed the sh!t out of me. i might play the free trial version just to make my play a bit with my 1 friend but i don't think i will buy it...

I'm not sure using different characters to by-pass the swear filter will make your apology much more endearing. They have the filter for a reason.

i don't want to be making all sorts of characters to go and meet up with other friends online. After all this I really don't even care to find out what servers they are on or keep track of it. i have other hobbies to enjoy.

They sound like close friends.

as other people have stated, it is the same for every MMO in existance. it is not like DDO is doing something different to everyone else.

Not true. Almost every.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:46 AM

"there are just too many technical issues around having a central character depositary then having multiple servers you can send him/her too."

about that last part? does that mean you can have a character you can send to multiple servers??????? cuz that is really my question to begin with...

i really don't care about load times cuz nothing on pc could be as bad as PS load times.... hahaha.

And idon't know mmorgpsslsssxswl means and i don't know, don't care, (didn't say they did) that DDO does anything different than all the other similar games out there.... BUT THEY SHOULD! MAYBE IT WOULD BE FUNNER THAN! AND GET not your averge D&D nerd to get on here and fork over the money and play. :P Then wouldn't that be awesome to be the FIRST massive online player game that allows you to create a character and run all over the D&D universe.

just wishful thinking here... okay i'll stop pouting... i'll have to tell him i gave up and I'll give in... i'll make a new character... i googled and googled because i just thought "there had to be a way" and took enough of your peoples time at this nice forum. I just still think it's ******** you can't just have 1 character for all of DDO. no wonder...

Corwin777

09-30-2009, 02:49 AM

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:51 AM

I'm not sure using different characters to by-pass the swear filter will make your apology much more endearing. They have the filter for a reason. seriously? did that offend you? i'm sorry I thought we were all on a Dungeons & Dragons forumn... i didn't know people were such prudes... I thought my version of the word invokes jesting.

They sound like close friends. no cuz my close friends don't play D&D. These are people I'm acquaintances with that I thought maybe I could hang out with "online" and play a game with since they were online and I was online and it might turn out to be fun to try it out. The log on screen should give you the option to add your buddies and then you can all go adventure together wherever the eff you want.

Not true. Almost every. that's sad.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 02:55 AM

I think the OP is amazed that you can't just switch servers with your character as you can say in Guild Wars. Actually, my understanding is that you can switch servers but it will cost you REAL money and that it takes some time, so is likely not worth it.

tell me more... r u saying you CAN do it in the purchased version??? Cuz i don't care about spending the money if I can do that. I'm only playing the free version just to see if it's even worth it. and I don't think its worth it if you can't do that. But if you can in the purchased full version well then that solves my whole problem!

well why didn't anybody just say that to begin with!? :O)

FluffyCalico

09-30-2009, 02:57 AM

well why didn't anybody just say that to begin with!?

No its a paid option even for VIPs.

MissErres

09-30-2009, 03:05 AM

Lulu, your first selection is your Server. There are 6, Ghallanda, Khyber, Argo, Thelanis, Sarlona and Cannith. Each Server is independent of the others and characters cannot bounce between them w/o putting in a server transfer with Turbine, which costs real money.

You can build characters on each server, but each one will have it's own character list. Make sure both you and your friend have built characters on the same server.

Each server is identical to the next in aspect of questing and areas. No one is better than another. (Well, maybe, but that's a different discussion.)

Within each server there are public areas. (Korthos Island, the Harbor, the Market, Houses P, D, J, and K.. etc...) It is possible to have different Instances of the public areas. When the population of a particular area becomes too large, the game adds instances. (Harbor-1, Harbor-2, etc.) You can select which instance of a public area you are in by using the dropdown menu above the mini-map. If there is no drop-down menu, it generally means there is only one instance.

Korthos Island is a little different depending on where you are at in the beginning quest line. There is what is referred to as "Snowy" Korthos and "Sunny" Korthos. A character is in "Snowy" Korthos until they have completed the first few quests, then they are in "Sunny" Korthos. (I'm not exactly sure what the transition from one to the other is since I've only had to do it once, long ago.)

Hope this helps. Good luck and happy hunting.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 03:09 AM

No its a paid option even for VIPs.
???? Is that a response to my question "r u saying you CAN do it in the purchased version???" or something else?

So does that mean 'yes you can buy it?' or 'no you can't buy it?'

Or is it like an extra paid option on the purchased version??? Cuz that would be fine with me too.

idbi

09-30-2009, 03:09 AM

And idon't know mmorgpsslsssxswl means and i don't know, don't care, (didn't say they did) that DDO does anything different than all the other similar games out there.... BUT THEY SHOULD! MAYBE IT WOULD BE FUNNER THAN! AND GET not your averge D&D nerd to get on here and fork over the money and play. :P Then wouldn't that be awesome to be the FIRST massive online player game that allows you to create a character and run all over the D&D universe.

I think you might be confused. Each "realm" has it's own copy of the entire DDO universe on it. Think of it as several parallel universes. If your character is on one realm that character can access all of the content in the ddo game. Different "worlds" don't have different things on them. When people get friends to start playing any online game/mmo/whathaveyou they tell them what realm they play on. You are not missing out on anything at all by not being able to travel freely between each world because each world has exactly the same things on them.

You started your post by stating that you both logged into "kyber" yet that was not the case. As you are obviously completely new to the concept of games of this nature you should ask questions politely instead of ranting about things that you do not understand.

... I still think there must be a way because it would be idiotic on part of the developers to not allow you to take your character and go mingle/adventure with your friends on different servers.... cuz that defeats the purpose of even joining an getting on to go have fun... i don't care to keep track of which of my friends are on which server-worlds and then have to go make characters for each server-world. that is dumb. i even called one of my super-computer game playing nerd friend and he said that he couldn't figure it out either, and he doesn't understand why they make it that way and it is a pain in the arse. way to drive people away from playing your game! ...

Gold, I laughed, I cried, it became a part of me.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 03:16 AM

Brennie

09-30-2009, 03:17 AM

It is possible to switch a single character from one server to another for a fee, even for subscribing members.

You can easily select your friends server and use the exact same options you just used to make the exact same character. It should take you less than 10 minutes.

I seriously don't understand why this is such an issue...

stz

09-30-2009, 03:18 AM

???? Is that a response to my question "r u saying you CAN do it in the purchased version???" or something else?

So does that mean 'yes you can buy it?' or 'no you can't buy it?'

Or is it like an extra paid option on the purchased version??? Cuz that would be fine with me too.

Its an extra paid option to move an existing character to a different server. It's not worth the money especially for a new player, its more for those who want to move to another server and keep their super uber gear theyve invested hundreds of hours into. Just start over as someone else suggested, takes a few minutes.

MissErres

09-30-2009, 03:27 AM

Thank you so much MissErres!!!! So when you pay them this "real money", lol, cuz i don't know what other kind there is?? Do they allow you to keep switching or do you have to pay them each time you want to switch? Maybe they could offer like an unlimited switching account for $XXX amount of moola. IDK, I just want to be able to join my friends with out starting over each time... Cuz I'm thinkg of the future here too not just the present... If I find out a friend has joined or meet a new friend who plays but we began our character's life on diff servers than it's like "oh....hmmm....kay". Should we or shouldn't we bother...

Lulu, your best option is just to coordinate with your friends and all build characters on one server (Ghallanda, Khyber, Thelanis, Argo, Sarlona or Cannith), just make sure you all choose the same one. Paying "real money" (as opposed to in-game money) for a server change at low levels is, well, silly. It is an option you must pay for for each server transfer. Each server is EXACTLY the same in terms of content. The only thing different are the people.

Creating a new character only takes a few minutes and getting to level 4 or so should only take you a few hours once you are familiar with the quests.

Don't get discouraged, you simply have a misunderstanding of the game functions. Once you get that figured out, you will love it here.

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 03:30 AM

I think you might be confused. Each "realm" has it's own copy of the entire DDO universe on it. Think of it as several parallel universes. If your character is on one realm that character can access all of the content in the ddo game. Different "worlds" don't have different things on them. When people get friends to start playing any online game/mmo/whathaveyou they tell them what realm they play on. You are not missing out on anything at all by not being able to travel freely between each world because each world has exactly the same things on them.
Ahh but they don't, they don't have the same people. and that is my whole problem. Obviously they all have the same "game" but you cannot connect with the same people.

You started your post by stating that you both logged into "kyber" yet that was not the case. As you are obviously completely new to the concept of games of this nature you should ask questions politely instead of ranting about things that you do not understand.

well i created my character as my friend asked... as they were newish to this game too they didn't remember or know that they had to know what they had began with as well and to tell me? (is there a place that tells you this after you have done it?) so when we where both trying to find each other not knowning... try to imagine how frustrating that was... then you would understand that frustration comes out in my questioning.... they gave up and went to bed and i was determined to find an answer somewhere on the world wide web and i was brought to here... i was here for answers if people were put off by my form of questioning they a free to ignore my post and not answer...

I am definitely not new to forums and all the drama involved with them...it really amuses me when people take posts on silly forums so personally... especially when you cannot hear tone, inflection or sarcasim in people's text. It's all alot of assuming based on individual personalities.

And i was 'ranting' as you say, I really thought I was more 'pouting' (see the tone of my words was lost intranslation) because i don't understand and am frustrated by the lack of directions on the d&dlauncher that doesn't clearly indicate the separateness of the worlds.

MissErres

09-30-2009, 03:36 AM

Ok, let's try it this way.

Lulu, you are on Khyber, correct? What level are you?

What server/realm are your friends on (Gland, Khyber, Argo, Thelanis, Sarlona, Cannith) and what level are they?

idbi

09-30-2009, 03:43 AM

Ahh but they don't, they don't have the same people. and that is my whole problem. Obviously they all have the same "game" but you cannot connect with the same people.

well i created my character as my friend asked... as they were newish to this game too they didn't remember or know that they had to know what they had began with as well and to tell me? (is there a place that tells you this after you have done it?) so when we where both trying to find each other not knowning... try to imagine how frustrating that was... then you would understand that frustration comes out in my questioning.... they gave up and went to bed and i was determined to find an answer somewhere on the world wide web and i was brought to here... i was here for answers if people were put off by my form of questioning they a free to ignore my post and not answer...

I am definitely not new to forums and all the drama involved with them...it really amuses me when people take posts on silly forums so personally... especially when you cannot hear tone, inflection or sarcasim in people's text. It's all alot of assuming based on individual personalities.

And i was 'ranting' as you say, I really thought I was more 'pouting' (see the tone of my words was lost intranslation) because i don't understand and am frustrated by the lack of directions on the d&dlauncher that doesn't clearly indicate the separateness of the worlds.

You are clearly a troll or intentionally not reading user's posts to you. No one is taking anything "on silly forums so personally" people are attempting to provide you with a fundamental understanding of mmo/rpg/etc basics and you are sticking your fingers in your ears like a child. All of your "frustration and pouting" could have been avoided had you simply familiarized yourself with how the game operated before you began playing. Since you did not do this people are now trying to give you the information that you are too lazy to look up for yourself. It doesn't really matter if you like the way MMOs work or not, that's how they work .....

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 03:44 AM

I seriously don't understand why this is such an issue...

me either! I think the first 10 people or so didn't really understand what I was asking because i wasn't sure how to ask it. I don't mind paying the fee to swith between servers if it will really let me keep my character, because I have no interest in creating new ones for each server.

I'm just excited so many people responded to my OP! How fun! Even got some dramz on it too! Yay! :P

But seriously thanxs to you all that gave helpful replies!!! Much appreciated now I just have to decide if I want to continue playing it or not.

Thanks again MissErres, but I don't really know how I would gather up all my people that I know that play and all choose a server and create all new characters... :(

I don't think I know anybody who would want to do that. I'm lucky enough to have a job I can play the computer all day long and do whatever I want but most my friends have little urchins or jobs that wouldn't allow for that. I'll just have to wish for some more D&D lovin friends to come along... sigh... okay night ya'll i'll have to sleep on this... i would close this thread since i got all the info i need.... but it seems this forum doesn't allow for the OP to do that?! how lame! :D

LuluStar

09-30-2009, 03:51 AM

You are clearly a troll or intentionally not reading user's posts to you. No one is taking anything "on silly forums so personally" people are attempting to provide you with a fundamental understanding of mmo/rpg/etc basics and you are sticking your fingers in your ears like a child. All of your "frustration and pouting" could have been avoided had you simply familiarized yourself with how the game operated before you began playing. Since you did not do this people are now trying to give you the information that you are too lazy to look up for yourself. It doesn't really matter if you like the way MMOs work or not, that's how they work .....

wow, let's see you are the one taking it so offensively...everyone else offered help you just seem to be picking at my words and not liking them... i feel sorry for you... i thought this forum was for NEW PLAYERS to ask questions...
This is me familiarizing myself with game... I just played 1st time a few hours ago... I had some questions about why heck you can't transfer characters between worlds so I came to this crazy lil forum to ask.

After the first response that ACTUALLY answered my question, that was fine. I kept posting more of my "frustrations about" because I still think it's dumb you can't just do that. So if you dont' like reading it, STOP! Really? You are so funny! It makes me giggle. I get it, you can't do it the way I want... I got it. Alright But I still don't like it. So deal with it. I am.

And as for name calling if I'm a troll...I will label you as a lump of smeg from a wild boar. lol!

scidude

09-30-2009, 04:00 AM

Korthos Island is a little different depending on where you are at in the beginning quest line. There is what is referred to as "Snowy" Korthos and "Sunny" Korthos. A character is in "Snowy" Korthos until they have completed the first few quests, then they are in "Sunny" Korthos. (I'm not exactly sure what the transition from one to the other is since I've only had to do it once, long ago.)

You can instantly switch over to "sunny" now by just taking the boat to stormreach.

MissErres

09-30-2009, 04:02 AM

You can instantly switch over to "sunny" now by just taking the boat to stormreach.

Isn't there something a first time player has to complete first tho? Like the Collaborator or something? Like I said, it's been a long time ago and I'm not sure.

scidude

09-30-2009, 04:06 AM

Isn't there something a first time player has to complete first tho? Like the Collaborator or something? Like I said, it's been a long time ago and I'm not sure.

It looks as though, in the past, you needed to complete the dragon series of quests, which is why the snow "goes away", because you free him. Now you can just skip it and go to the main continent if you wish. Good idea.

The dragon series is something like doing the crypt dungeon(heyton's rest i think its called), collaborator, redemption, and then misery peak. If you are am melee class and you don't do this series along with "sacrifices" for the set bonus, you are fool though. +2 to hit set bonus that stacks with any other to hit bonus. 5% run speed boost isn't bad for a noob either.

Brennie

09-30-2009, 04:13 AM

me either! I think the first 10 people or so didn't really understand what I was asking because i wasn't sure how to ask it. I don't mind paying the fee to swith between servers if it will really let me keep my character, because I have no interest in creating new ones for each server.

Don't pay money. Seriously, its not worth it for a character you could remake and get to the same level in less than 1 day of playing. Chances are (And i mean no disrespect) that you will want to abandon your first character eventually anyhow. Most new players do, once they get a better understanding of the game, and how to optimize character builds. And some people just like having one of every class, and a few of every multiclass ^_^

You do not have to make a character on EVERY SERVER. You need only to choose one "home" server, and when asking friends to come play with you, tell them "make sure you join Khyber server (or wherever), thats where my characters are!"

Between you and your friend, which character is higher level? That character wins. Whoever is lower level needs to remake their character on the "winners" server. Problem solved. Well... except that if you want to play with your friend, you should probably *both* make new characters so that you can group together without XP penalties (A level 4 in a level 1 group will impose XP penalties. But if you wait for him to get to level 2 you will be okay).

MissEress - No, a player can go directly from the end o fthe tutorial into sttormreach harbor. They could theoretically never complete a single mission in Korthos, if they didn't want to. They do need to complete the Collaborator in order to enter Korthos Island explorer area, though (and i believe theres a funky grouping rule that has something to do with miserys peak...)

idbi

09-30-2009, 01:07 PM

wow, let's see you are the one taking it so offensively...everyone else offered help you just seem to be picking at my words and not liking them... i feel sorry for you... i thought this forum was for NEW PLAYERS to ask questions...
This is me familiarizing myself with game... I just played 1st time a few hours ago... I had some questions about why heck you can't transfer characters between worlds so I came to this crazy lil forum to ask.

After the first response that ACTUALLY answered my question, that was fine. I kept posting more of my "frustrations about" because I still think it's dumb you can't just do that. So if you dont' like reading it, STOP! Really? You are so funny! It makes me giggle. I get it, you can't do it the way I want... I got it. Alright But I still don't like it. So deal with it. I am.

And as for name calling if I'm a troll...I will label you as a lump of smeg from a wild boar. lol!

I am not offended I am merely attempting to help you understand that all games of this nature are similar and that being new to them you would benefit by 1) being slightly more pleasant 2) Doing a little self research and 3) actually reading the information that people have given you instead of disregarding it because you don't like it. There are a multitude of reasons why the game is set up that way.

I have attempted to offer you help as well, it would seem that you are picking at my words and not liking them. I'm not trying to bash you I'm responding with an equal level of snarkiness. I did find it funny that you posted that you even called your super-duper gamer nerd friend and that he said the entire system was idiotic and that by having it in place the devs were driving people away from the game. I was trying to point out that if this is your main bone of contention you will be disappointed with any online game you switch to out of frustration because you will be faced with the same problem.

I am not picking at your words and I have no desire to fight or argue with you. This forum is for new players to ask questions. I did not call you a troll I stated that you are clearly one thing or the other and since you have denied that you are a troll I will henceforth assume that you are intentionally not reading user's posts to you. I am indeed a lump of smeg from a wild boar though, on this point and this point alone you are correct =)

I'm glad that you got the information you were requesting and I hope that you continue playing and having fun but for the love of Cellimas you don't want to enter into this whole thing planning on having only one character that you are constantly transferring between servers. It would cost a lot and transfers are not instant they can take awhile.

Brennie

09-30-2009, 09:24 PM

If you are am melee class and you don't do this series along with "sacrifices" for the set bonus, you are fool though. +2 to hit set bonus that stacks with any other to hit bonus. 5% run speed boost isn't bad for a noob either.

You are even more of a fool if you are a caster class and don't do miserys peak for the Archivist Necklace, which will regain 20 to 70 Spellpoints per rest, and is something a character will likely have on them from level 1 to 20.

Its such a good item that i think its criminal new players even have the option of choosing the other 2 "Caster" sets from miserys Peak, perhaps not knowing they only have one chance at it, and that 10% bonus damage to first level spells is not worth giving up one of the most useful items in the entire game.