low-HP party members: asset or liability?

[Corebreach]

F2P player here. New to DDO but not D&D or MMOs. Got myself a level 4 Wizard with 41 hp. I was trudging through a Cerulean Hills door quest on elite with a 6-person PUG and noticed some wolves had started chasing us. No worries, I thought, I'm at almost full health and close to the party. Then one crits me for 38 and I die on the spot. I spend the rest of the mission watching from the sidelines as the team's two armored healing characters (paladin and cleric) duo the mission slowly while everyone else flails and also dies, though it takes them a couple fights. (And for some exploitive reason, I actually got XP when the quest finished.) The next two quests went more or less the same, though all my subsequent deaths took two or three hits.

Question 1: Is this normal? What can someone who can die in two hits bring to a party that a non-squishy can't? My CC spells get saved against or resisted a lot, and lag makes it hard to land AoE spells on more than two enemies since they move so far during the casting. So the only thing reliable seems to be single-target damage, which melee classes can provide without dying.

Question 2: What can I do to live longer? I've got Mage Armor, Blur, and Shield self-buffed, a +1 deflection AC ring, and was usually within the Paladin's Aura of Good (which would be +2 instead). I've also got DR 3 to cold, fire, and either slashing or piercing as necessary. I've maxed Diplomacy, though it's cross-class and based on a non-primary Wiz stat so it's only +4 total.

[EazyWeazy]

Its rough playing a squishy character early on, but you can do it. Casters really start to come into their own when they get haste and fireball, and then really with firewall. You just have to get there first. :)

Spend some time reading on the forums to make sure you're building your caster correctly. Learn to keep blur up on yourself if a fight is coming and at early levels focus on CC so you don't pull aggro to yourself.

It takes some practice and it helps if you have friends or guildies to help you along, but you can do it.

[Angelus_dead]

F2P player here. New to DDO but not D&D or MMOs. Got myself a level 4 Wizard with 41 hp. I was trudging through a Cerulean Hills door quest on elite with a 6-person PUG and noticed some wolves had started chasing us. No worries, I thought, I'm at almost full health and close to the party. Then one crits me for 38 and I die on the spot.
Important information for you:

Between levels 9 and 11, all player characters become permanently immune to critical hits.

That is due to the acquisition of Heavy Fortification items, which you can't equip until that level. Once you can get one of those items, you will never enter combat without wearing one, for reasons that you've already discovered.

[TreknaQudane]

Part of your problem lies in the fact you were running a quest on Elite. The elite setting is designed to be difficult by increasing saves, mob hit points, and over all pain in the buttness.

That being said, your survivability as a Wizard can be increased a few ways. The easiest way is to pick up the Toughness feat, that opens up some Enhancements to further up your HP. When of level, keep yourself Blurred and later Displaced when you have to be near melee. Those two buffs will significantly increase your ability to survive. Make sure you have a False Life item on, they provide a static boost to your hit points.

[Angelus_dead]

F2P player here. New to DDO but not D&D or MMOs. Got myself a level 4 Wizard with 41 hp. I was trudging through a Cerulean Hills door quest on elite
Also, be advised that you were level 4 in a quest targeted at level 8 difficulty. That's what "Elite" means.

[Doomcrew]

Something that might help, is to keep away from the mobs
until they aggro on something else. Then fire away
with your choice of spells. Hypnotize is a great low/mid
level CC spell that can be very beneficial to a party.

Cheers

[CE2JRH123]

Stay in the back. Don't hit things as they're coming in; instead, hit them when they've been fighting for a few seconds. Start nuking at 50%. Then if you're never getting agro, go to 75%, or 80%.

When you get agro, circle around the tanks. Tell them you'll do this; the mob will still chase, but you'll be hit fewer times, and the tank can just circle and hit. Even better would be standing still and quaffing potions; everyone will be able to kill it faster. Also, you get an AC bonus. Hell, get a towershield on a weapon combo. Switch it on in those situations and start blocking. Don't try casting with it (ASF), but switch it out again. Could help at the lower levels.

Korthos Harbour, one of the quests has "Bracers of Aid or something like that"; this gives you +1d8+3 temp HP (Actually, I that's what it is in 3.5E; I think it gives slightly more, since it tends to be 6-12...)

Clerics can also cast it; but you know, save them the mana. Carry 3 of these bracers around. Maybe 5. Repeating the quest will be boring (I think it's Cannith Crystal); just do it on solo. Quick and easy, useful item. You can duplicate this affect with false life spell, but save yourself the mana.

Boost your HP with a belt of lesser false life. Also from a Korthos Harbour Quest. +5 HP

What's your dexterity? That'll give you a little more AC. My casters are built Int/Cha 18, Con/Dex: 14.

That being said, Mage Armor, Shield, +1 deflection ring = 19 AC. With a dex of 12 (which I believe): 20 AC. Assuming an attack bonus of +10 (which at this level (3-5), would be mid-high), your chance of being hit is 50%.

Regardless, a bad critical will probably bring you down. The idea is avoiding those crits. Stay behind tanks. Watch your agro.

[Corebreach]

Also, be advised that you were level 4 in a quest targeted at level 8 difficulty. That's what "Elite" means.
I thought the Cerulean Hills was targeted at level 4 and Elite added 2. I know we kept getting "YOU WILL GET NO QUEST PROGRESS" messages in the outdoors area because we had a 5th level character in the team.

[Junts]

I thought the Cerulean Hills was targeted at level 4 and Elite added 2. I know we kept getting "YOU WILL GET NO QUEST PROGRESS" messages in the outdoors area because we had a 5th level character in the team.

a level 4 quest on elite is way, way harder than a level 6 quest on normal

it has to do with how the difficulty settings work; elite is a huge jump (a 4-5 level upgrade in mob quality), 2 level upgrade in loot quality, 2 level upgrade in quest level for exp purposes. Elite is designed to be challenge the best characters in range of the quest; inferior characters will get pummelled.

As a new player I would advise not starting with less than 12 (preferably not less than 14, if not an elf/drow) constituton and making sure you get the toughness feat

If you do those things, you will be relatively unsquishy for your class; going too low in con and not taking toughness as a new player is a recipe for frustration

~85% of all ddo characters have the toughness feat, and with good reason.

[Corebreach]

When you get agro, circle around the tanks. Tell them you'll do this; the mob will still chase, but you'll be hit fewer times, and the tank can just circle and hit. Even better would be standing still and quaffing potions; everyone will be able to kill it faster. Also, you get an AC bonus. Hell, get a towershield on a weapon combo. Switch it on in those situations and start blocking. Don't try casting with it (ASF), but switch it out again. Could help at the lower levels.
That sounds like a plan.
EDIT: Or does it? Shields don't stack AC with the Shield spell. Or does the block key do something completely different?

MORE EDIT: What about Tumble?


Korthos Harbour, one of the quests has "Bracers of Aid or something like that"; this gives you +1d8+3 temp HP (Actually, I that's what it is in 3.5E; I think it gives slightly more, since it tends to be 6-12...)

Clerics can also cast it; but you know, save them the mana. Carry 3 of these bracers around. Maybe 5. Repeating the quest will be boring (I think it's Cannith Crystal); just do it on solo. Quick and easy, useful item. You can duplicate this affect with false life spell, but save yourself the mana.
I'll do you one better: a 45-charge Wand of False Life (adds 13).


Boost your HP with a belt of lesser false life. Also from a Korthos Harbour Quest. +5 HP
It's been on since level 1.


What's your dexterity?
12.


Regardless, a bad critical will probably bring you down. The idea is avoiding those crits. Stay behind tanks. Watch your agro.
I'll watch the aggro. Staying behind the tanks is another matter. They all have runspeed-boost boots and know the maps. Sometimes keeping them in sight is hard.

[malaky]

F2P player here. New to DDO but not D&D or MMOs. Got myself a level 4 Wizard with 41 hp.

Can' t believe no one caught this. You should have a base CON above 10 no matter what character/build you have. 41 hp would be 20 (heroic durability) +16 (4 wiz) +5 (lesser false life belt) = 41. You're only level 4, not too bad to reroll at this point. In pen & paper, wizards needed DEX for ray spells; this is not the case in DDO. Raise CON instead of DEX.

And, you're going to be squishy no matter what; the CON is just so you don't go splat in 1-2 hits. Displacement will be your friend, and crowd control. Avoid aggro as much as possible; take things out fast or wait for someone else to attack it first.

[Newtons_Apple]

I'll watch the aggro. Staying behind the tanks is another matter. They all have runspeed-boost boots and know the maps. Sometimes keeping them in sight is hard.

Change out your spell selection a bit. As a low level wiz, I tend to mem jump, blur, web, expeditious retreat, resist energy, hypnotize, mm, burning hands.

1. Jump will help you dodge out of the way of a lot of things- you just have to work on your twitch play a little.

2. Expeditious retreat will help you run as fast if not faster than some tanks, AND helps you stay away from mobs.

3. Take heighten to help your webs and hypnos land better. Hypno's usefullness is reduced at higher levels, but I still use web to this day at level 20. It's one of the best CC spells in the game.

4. Use potions of fox cunning to temporarily boost your intel, thus boosting your dc's.

5. Use tactics- have the tanks fight in doorways and then burn mobs through the tanks with burning hands. Or, simply web the door and watch with glee as the tanks beat down the helpless mobs.

6. By level 5, take the extend feat. You get haste at level 5. It's a whole new world...

Casters will always be a bit squishy. EDIT: What Malaky said - increase your con. A 12 Con would be a good start. Also take toughness - it's a fantastic feat. Yes, get a tower shield and use it to block when you have to. But most of the time it's better to be fast. Put a few points into your jump skill as you level. Practice jumping and dodging amongst mobs. This will get you ready for the big game: level 7 and the wonderful firewall spell.

[baddax]

That sounds like a plan.


I'll do you one better: a 45-charge Wand of False Life (adds 13).


It's been on since level 1.


12.


I'll watch the aggro. Staying behind the tanks is another matter. They all have runspeed-boost boots and know the maps. Sometimes keeping them in sight is hard.

Sounds like you are running with some regular players, who know the quests etc. From what i gather you are also running a caster.
These 2 combinations make it difficult to contribute significantly at low levels as
1) Tanks are more powerful at lower levels than casters
2) Regular or power gamers will have a better knowledge of the quest and better equiped characters.

My advice is to
1) do your best to keep up. If you fall behind or get lost ask for assistance.
2) In combat try to aviod aggro (as another player suggested).
3) Watch caster animations. They will alert you to incoming spells and give you the chance to dodge them. This is especially important on hard and elite settings where casters will be able to One shot many/most party members.
4) understand as a low level caster in a group of skilled players your contribution will be limited because of the above factors. There will be times when you will be the star but mostly you will be support (the end boss for STK comes to mind although i am not sure of this because of recent changes). Situations/quests like this will become more frequent at higher levels as your power and spell selection grows.

[QuantumFX]

Question 1: Is this normal? What can someone who can die in two hits bring to a party that a non-squishy can't? My CC spells get saved against or resisted a lot, and lag makes it hard to land AoE spells on more than two enemies since they move so far during the casting. So the only thing reliable seems to be single-target damage, which melee classes can provide without dying.

On elite going squish is, unfortunately, an occupational hazard. At low levels your best options are usually Buffing the melees and Crowd Control. Blur, Bulls Strength/Bears Endurance, Web, and Hyno Sphere are all good choices.


Question 2: What can I do to live longer? I've got Mage Armor, Blur, and Shield self-buffed, a +1 deflection AC ring, and was usually within the Paladin's Aura of Good (which would be +2 instead). I've also got DR 3 to cold, fire, and either slashing or piercing as necessary. I've maxed Diplomacy, though it's cross-class and based on a non-primary Wiz stat so it's only +4 total.

First, make sure you’ve taken the toughness feat once in your build. Level +3 HP may not seem like much but you can get racial toughness enhancements that turn that +7 HP at level 4 into +17 HP at level 4.

Spells Item and self cast: Blur is a great way to avoid weapons. Expeditious Retreat + running towards your tanks is a good combo. False Life (available on wands) is a lifesaver. So are Bears Endurance wands/items/potions. Are you warforged? If so, where's your repair spells/wand?

Items: False Life items and +CON items are your friend. Aid Clickies. You have a way of farming Aid clickies in Korthos island. It's 11 temporary hit points. It will turn that 44 point crit into a 33 point crit that you can run away from.

[Shade]

Also, be advised that you were level 4 in a quest targeted at level 8 difficulty. That's what "Elite" means.

Nonsense. Not even close to what elite means.

Elite is about challenge. It's about the maximum limits your can push your character too and still win. It's a difficulty setting, not a level boost. Every elite quest is balanced exactly for the base level it's stat. So the cerulean hills quests are all balanced for level3. A elite group of lvl3 should have a good challenge beating this quest. It's never intended for people 1,2,3,4 or more levels do it, and get an exp penalty, and steamroll the quest with stats. It's there for the challenge.

I mean it would make zero sense for the devs to release new lvl10 quests, when the lvl10 was the cap.. and elite players to beat it on elite.. Yet they have, and we have, easily.

Throwing levels at it won't work anyways. A solid group of elite lvl4 players can and often do beat waterworks elite, doing every optional. While a group of lvl10 noobs can and do whipe there as the traps kill them - yea there stats are nough to make the mobs trivial, but there tactics and twitch skills are just as bad so they cannot dodge the traps.

So as a brand new player learning the game - do yourself a favor and don't joing elite pugs. Elite quests are designed to be nearly impossible for pugs anyways as they should challenge a well equpped group of players who play together often and can work together well.

I mean I rarely run low lvl elite quests and i've been playing the game since beta and beat every single one multiple times.. For the fact that most of my friends are high lvl so I'd have to pug them - and thats never worth it.

Especially not worth it since they removed any xp bonus for doing quests above your level.. So hard and elite have seen essential a 10 and 20% loss of xp this patch.

[sunkenfaith]

Asset, if played properly.

[Corebreach]

3) Watch caster animations. They will alert you to incoming spells and give you the chance to dodge them.
The chance to what?

I thought this was an RPG, where the chance of my character getting hit by something depended on his stats. You're saying I can sidestep projectiles and weapon swings and make them automatically miss?

That's...that's just dumb. If I wanted to test my personal Dexterity, I'd be playing Call of Duty 4 or something. Bleagh. :(

[kaelis]

Casters will always be a bit squishy.

.

Not true :( Beak can get 425, and hold it for a full quest :) (not cheating and counting stone skin as an extra 120-150)

[baddax]

The chance to what?

I thought this was an RPG, where the chance of my character getting hit by something depended on his stats. You're saying I can sidestep projectiles and weapon swings and make them automatically miss?

That's...that's just dumb. If I wanted to test my personal Dexterity, I'd be playing Call of Duty 4 or something. Bleagh. :(

Sorry but DDO's combat is an Active combat system. Both in melee and casting combat. The easiest way to avoid being hit (as IRL) is to not be there. You cannot expect to survive for very long depending solely on your stats (especially as a caster). This is one of the things that makes DDO different than other mmo's. If you do not like an active combat system either casting or melee then DDO may not be for you.

Many spells have no saving throw and can do huge amounts of damage (scorching ray/searing light). The ONLY option is to move out of the way.

[Angelus_dead]

Nonsense. Not even close to what elite means.
Wrong. You just have no idea what you're talking about at all.

You are spewing emotional gibberish in response to what is a simple question of fact:
According to the DDO game design targets, setting a level 3 quest to Elite is supposed to produce about level 8 difficulty.

[kaelis]

The chance to what?

I thought this was an RPG, where the chance of my character getting hit by something depended on his stats. You're saying I can sidestep projectiles and weapon swings and make them automatically miss?

That's...that's just dumb. If I wanted to test my personal Dexterity, I'd be playing Call of Duty 4 or something. Bleagh. :(

Fast paced, action MMO, were aprt of the selling points to many. That said yes you can avoid many projectiles and ranged weapons (even melee though it's hard to do and not worth it). You don't have to, and many don't spend to much time unless it's hard hitting stuff, from mobs they don't intend to kill.

[KaKa]

Any character who dies too much for any reason, whether that be low hp or being a bad player is a liability.

Can't contribute if your dead.

[mediocresurgeon]

Sorry but DDO's combat is an Active combat system. Both in melee and casting combat. The easiest way to avoid being hit (as IRL) is to not be there. You cannot expect to survive for very long depending solely on your stats (especially as a caster). This is one of the things that makes DDO different than other mmo's. If you do not like an active combat system either casting or melee then DDO may not be for you.

Many spells have no saving throw and can do huge amounts of damage (scorching ray/searing light). The ONLY option is to move out of the way.

What he said. Also, enemies will do the same thing to you--they will run out of range, move aside before your ray lands, etc. DDO requires some hand-eye coordination, attentiveness to what your enemies are doing, and the ability to lead your target. If you are faced with enemy spellcasters, run behind corners, hide behind players, etc. Spellcasters cannot cast spells through walls, and there is impact detection betwen players and NPCs (example: if you have aggro from a monster in another room, and there is a tank blocking the doorway, the monster will be stuck in the room and will be unable to engage you in melee).

If you would rather your party members jump between you and incoming attacks, play a cleric. 99% of DDO vets have no problem taking a hit (or even dying) so that the cleric survives the fight. Also, since the stereotypical cleric moves like molasses, most people probably will not even comment on it.

[baddax]

Wrong. You just have no idea what you're talking about at all.

You are spewing emotional gibberish in response to what is a simple question of fact:
According to the DDO game design targets, setting a level 3 quest to Elite is supposed to produce about level 8 difficulty.

I thought it was 1 level per difficulty. ie level 3 quest on hard = level 4 and level 5 on elite?

[Angelus_dead]

I thought it was 1 level per difficulty. ie level 3 quest on hard = level 4 and level 5 on elite?
No, absolutely not. That's why this point is important to explain to new players, and why it is damaging for someone to call it "nonsense". For example, in this case we had a player of a level 4 character dismayed he got killed in a level 3 elite quest, thinking the monster was just +1 above his intended level, when really it is +4.

Normal: Loot/XP X Difficulty X
Hard: Loot/XP X+1 Difficulty X+2
Elite: Loot/XP X+3 Difficulty X+5

That's for low-level quests. At higher levels the +2 and +5 numbers increase to even higher scaling, while the loot/XP remains +1 and +2.

[Grushvak]

No, absolutely not. That's why this point is important to explain to new players, and why it is damaging for someone to call it "nonsense". For example, in this case we had a player of a level 4 character dismayed he got killed in a level 3 elite quest, thinking the monster was just +1 above his intended level, when really it is +4.

Normal: Loot/XP X Difficulty X
Hard: Loot/XP X+1 Difficulty X+2
Elite: Loot/XP X+3 Difficulty X+5

That's for low-level quests. At higher levels the +2 and +5 numbers increase to even higher scaling, while the loot/XP remains +1 and +2.

That's a very helpful post. I always wondered how the scaling truly worked. Here, have some rep, it's on me.

[Corebreach]

Can' t believe no one caught this. You should have a base CON above 10 no matter what character/build you have. 41 hp would be 20 (heroic durability) +16 (4 wiz) +5 (lesser false life belt) = 41. You're only level 4, not too bad to reroll at this point. In pen & paper, wizards needed DEX for ray spells; this is not the case in DDO. Raise CON instead of DEX.

And, you're going to be squishy no matter what; the CON is just so you don't go splat in 1-2 hits.
I'm hearing a lot about CON, so I rerolled 8/10/14/18/10/10. I really didn't expect one or two hp per level to be such a big deal, since it isn't in PnP or NWN, but if it is...it is.

[Angelus_dead]

I really didn't expect one or two hp per level to be such a big deal, since it isn't in PnP or NWN, but if it is...it is.
In pnp D&D, the normal Wizard has constitution as his second highest stat.

In that game, a wizard gets 2.5 hp/level, so the difference between 10 and 18 con means having 130 hp or just 50. If hitpoint damage is at all a considerable risk (and by the rules it is), then obviously that other build has tremendously better survivability.

In DDO a wizard gets another 1.5 hp/level bonus, so the constitution isn't quite as big a percentage of your health, but it can still become crucial. That's amplified because DDO doesn't allow scry&die (for obvious reasons).


I'm hearing a lot about CON, so I rerolled 8/10/14/18/10/10.
Interesting.
8 str is acceptable, but can be irritatingly low if you suffer a str debuff and can't move. And I like a wizard who can melee a monster once in a while, although clearly many people don't.
10 dex is excessive. A wizard needs no dex: with a feat you can apply intelligence to reflex saves.
10 wis is excessive. A wizard needs no wis, because class levels already give him adequate will saves.
10 cha is excessive. A wizard needs no cha, because nobody likes him anyway.

It doesn't hurt much to have a few extra points in stats like that; it hardly even changes anything. But just so you know.

[Corebreach]

In pnp D&D, the normal Wizard has constitution as his second highest stat.

In that game, a wizard gets 2.5 hp/level, so the difference between 10 and 18 con means having 130 hp or just 50. If hitpoint damage is at all a considerable risk (and by the rules it is), then obviously that other build has tremendously better survivability.
Fair enough. I've never made a maxlevel PnP character, or a level 1 one designed only for future performance.


Interesting.
8 str is acceptable, but can be irritatingly low if you suffer a str debuff and can't move. And I like a wizard who can melee a monster once in a while, although clearly many people don't.
10 dex is excessive. A wizard needs no dex: with a feat you can apply intelligence to reflex saves.
10 wis is excessive. A wizard needs no wis, because class levels already give him adequate will saves.
10 cha is excessive. A wizard needs no cha, because nobody likes him anyway.

It doesn't hurt much to have a few extra points in stats like that; it hardly even changes anything. But just so you know.
I don't have the points for two 18s, and the game won't let me do 8/8/16/18/8/8. I have to make something a 10. The newbie guides are all over the place and appear to be written by players with worse preconceptions than I have.

[GreyRogue]

I don't have the points for two 18s, and the game won't let me do 8/8/16/18/8/8. I have to make something a 10. The newbie guides are all over the place and appear to be written by players with worse preconceptions than I have.

According to my calculations, you can't go 8/8/16/18/8/8 because that only uses 26 build points. That is the best you are going to be able to do for INT and CON if you want to max them out, though. I would suggest sticking the other 2 points in STR to improve carry capacity, melee potential (although it will still be a bit weak until you get a decent +STR item), and resistance to STR damage. (This all assumes you are human; can't remember if you said you were or not.)

[adamkatt]

Also, be advised that you were level 4 in a quest targeted at level 8 difficulty. That's what "Elite" means.

C hills quest are lvl 3.. so 5 on elite.

[Drekisen]

If u will take some time to notice things and read a little more u will notice on the tooltip display when u hover over the different difficulty settings that only normal is accurate as far as the actual quest difficulty goes, it says right in the tooltip display that hard and elite are scaled by one for loot table purposes only. The difficulty of the quests is actually elevated by 2 on hard and by 5 on elite.....run quests on normal thru elite and notice how much the cr's of the monsters go up.....I can assure u it is not only one per difficulty level.

[joenic2]

The nice thing about casters is that you can stay in the back and cast. Dump all stats . Max int for wiz and con. I have a sorcerer and started with 18 cha and 18 con and the rest at 8. I realize that a 28 build cannot do this but can get close. With the right spells, - rage, stoneskin, displacement, haste etc... you can be a beast. I was lucky enough to pull a +3 tome later on.

CON at level 20 with rage = 30 and with toughness feat with enhancement line and good items my sorc has 450 HP at level 20. That is great for a sorc and I imagine your wiz can get close to that. Forget dex. you will get hit anyway later on and casters are rarely in front.

You can even solo high level content as well without the AC cause you can take the hits and survive. Good luck!

[RTN]

According to my calculations, you can't go 8/8/16/18/8/8 because that only uses 26 build points. That is the best you are going to be able to do for INT and CON if you want to max them out, though. I would suggest sticking the other 2 points in STR to improve carry capacity, melee potential (although it will still be a bit weak until you get a decent +STR item), and resistance to STR damage. (This all assumes you are human; can't remember if you said you were or not.)

Listen to GreyRogue. This is great advice for 28pt build wizards. An 8 starting STR means you'll be constantly encumbered, which is no fun.

Remember that a wizard shouldn't engage the enemy first, unless you can one shot them or use CC to stop them dead. Keep the melee between you and the enemy, let the melee build up agro first, then launch damage attacks.

[Angelus_dead]

Fair enough. I've never made a maxlevel PnP character, or a level 1 one designed only for future performance.
It's not about "maxlevel" or "only future performance". For wizards (or sorcerers) of every level, constitution is normally the second highest stat. In fact, the largest reason to have good constitution is so you can reliably live through level 1, when otherwise a single hit could end you. As wizards advance they gain spells that can deny enemies even the chance to make an attack roll, but they want enough constitution to live that long.

The D&D wizard and sorcerer are called SAD classes, for Single Attribute Dependent. That means their class features only need one stat, leaving the rest of build points for constitution.


C hills quest are lvl 3.. so 5 on elite.
As already explained multiple times in this thread, that is exactly the misconception I was correcting.

The elite quest is only level 5 for the purposes of XP and internal loot. For external loot it remains level 3, and for monster power level 8.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

If you spend the entire quest dead, you are a liability.

Can't help when you are dead.

If the cleric is using Rez scrolls on you....you are really a liability. Thise things are expensive.

Having low HP is only part of the reason someone might die.

If the wolf one-hit-crit kills you. Having more HP alone will not keep you alive.
If you had twice your current HP, the wolf could still kill you in two hits, which doesn't take much longer than getting hit once.

So HP are only part of the problem.

I would be casting Hypnotism as fast as I could and blocking and tumbling and jumping out of the way of the wolves.
I would run toward my friends, I would put my back to a corner and block, and drink potions.
But the spamming Hypno part is the most effective to stop a pack of wolves at that lvl.

Still Elite is supposed to be difficult. Deaths happen. It's easier when you know the quest and can try to avoid taking on the pack of wolves by yourself in the future.

[Noctus]

Change out your spell selection a bit. As a low level wiz, I tend to mem jump, blur, web, expeditious retreat, resist energy, hypnotize, mm, burning hands.

1. Jump will help you dodge out of the way of a lot of things- you just have to work on your twitch play a little.

2. Expeditious retreat will help you run as fast if not faster than some tanks, AND helps you stay away from mobs.

3. Take heighten to help your webs and hypnos land better. Hypno's usefullness is reduced at higher levels, but I still use web to this day at level 20. It's one of the best CC spells in the game.

4. Use potions of fox cunning to temporarily boost your intel, thus boosting your dc's.

5. Use tactics- have the tanks fight in doorways and then burn mobs through the tanks with burning hands. Or, simply web the door and watch with glee as the tanks beat down the helpless mobs.

6. By level 5, take the extend feat. You get haste at level 5. It's a whole new world...

Casters will always be a bit squishy. EDIT: What Malaky said - increase your con. A 12 Con would be a good start. Also take toughness - it's a fantastic feat. Yes, get a tower shield and use it to block when you have to. But most of the time it's better to be fast. Put a few points into your jump skill as you level. Practice jumping and dodging amongst mobs. This will get you ready for the big game: level 7 and the wonderful firewall spell.


This is exactly the advice i would have given. But as newtons Apple was faster ---> +1 rep to him and my advice: Take Newton´s advice!

[Corebreach]

The nice thing about casters is that you can stay in the back and cast.
It was an open map, orcs spawn from all directions, and no one had intimidate. There was no "back".

[adamkatt]

As already explained multiple times in this thread, that is exactly the misconception I was correcting.

The elite quest is only level 5 for the purposes of XP and internal loot. For external loot it remains level 3, and for monster power level 8.


Otay!

[Junts]

I'm hearing a lot about CON, so I rerolled 8/10/14/18/10/10. I really didn't expect one or two hp per level to be such a big deal, since it isn't in PnP or NWN, but if it is...it is.


Also take the toughness feat, which opens up 20-40 hp worth of racial toughness enhancements starting at level 3 (and more on tank classes, which get class toughness enhancements as well)

the toughness feat can easily provide a character with 50-80 hp otherwise unavailable by level cap, and each con bracket is worth 20

These things make the difference between 450 hp casters and 300 hp ones.

[Junts]

The chance to what?

I thought this was an RPG, where the chance of my character getting hit by something depended on his stats. You're saying I can sidestep projectiles and weapon swings and make them automatically miss?

That's...that's just dumb. If I wanted to test my personal Dexterity, I'd be playing Call of Duty 4 or something. Bleagh. :(

in DDO you can do both; armor class or avoidance spells (like displacement) will help against attacks that hit you, but you can augment (or forego) those benefits and use play ability to evade most attacks (only things that cannot miss, like magic missile, are completely undodgeable, though no one can dodge every attack).

[SquelchHU]

I'm hearing a lot about CON, so I rerolled 8/10/14/18/10/10. I really didn't expect one or two hp per level to be such a big deal, since it isn't in PnP or NWN, but if it is...it is.

Actually Con is less important in DDO than in PnP because it grants the same amount of HP, but there are other means of boosting HP. Even so I would never start with less than 14 on any character because there is no reason to be more fragile than you have to be and the difference can still easily mean surviving a lucky or strong hit vs dying to it immediately. This is most apparent at the lowest levels where you can't do anything to block the lucky (critical) hits as you've seen and at the highest levels where taking ~300 damage at once is expected.