Weapon dps question

[Holinyx]

i'm a new player and have a dps question. I want to duel wield Dwarven Axes, simply because they're d10 and with greensteel down the road they'll be d12. but ALL i ever hear about is Kopheshs.

won't the d10 raw damage on the dwarven axe out-dps a rapier or kophesh? isn't the rapier/kophesh dps dependend to Criticals?

i guess my main question is, ignoring critical hits, (because i don't like the idea of relying on them) won't dueling Dwarven Axes out-dps rapier/kophesh? any info would be appreciated, thanks.

maybe once i'm level 15+, have a bloodstone, have any clue as to what the heck a mineral 2 weapon is, maybe then i'll swap to another weapon lol. help a new guy out.

[mediocresurgeon]

Before we begin:
Greensteel Dwarven Axes are 2d8+5 base damage, not 1d10.
Also, if you are calculating the damage per swing of your character, you MUST include critical hit damage or your results will be inaccurate.


The reasons that rapiers and khopeshes dominate endgame content is because of their critical profile, not their base damage. Only in low-level content does higher base damage = higher DPS. When the extra damage you get from criticals outweighs the damage you lose from having a weapon with lower base damage, the weapon with the better critical wins. At lower levels, base weapon damage > weapon criticals, and at high levels, weapon criticals > base weapon damage.

Example 1: Low Damage Bonuses (+0 per swing)
Assume expanded criticals due to Improved Critical or Keen. Let's also assume that the user has the racial damage bonuses for using axes (+2 damage per swing).

Greensteel Dwarven Axe: 2d8+7 damage, 19-20/x3
Roll 1: 0 damage
Roll 2-18: 34d8+119 damage
Roll 19-20: 12d8+42
Total: 36d8+161 damage (~323 damage over 20 swings)

Greensteel Khopesh: 1d10+5 damage, 17-20/x3
Roll 1: 0 damage
Roll 2-16: 15d10+75 damage
Roll 17-20: 12d10+60 damage
Total: 27d10+135 damage (~283.5 damage over 20 swings)

As you can see, when your damage base is low, high base damage wins over a high critical profile.


Example 2: High Damage Bonuses (+60 per swing)
Assume expanded criticals due to Improved Critical or Keen. Let's also assume that the user has the racial damage bonuses for using axes (+2 damage per swing).

Greensteel Dwarven Axe: 2d8+67 damage, 19-20/x3
Roll 1: 0 damage
Roll 2-18: 34d8+1139 damage
Roll 19-20: 12d8+402
Total: 36d8+1541 damage (~1703 damage over 20 swings)

Greensteel Khopesh: 1d10+65 damage, 17-20/x3
Roll 1: 0 damage
Roll 2-16: 15d10+975 damage
Roll 17-20: 12d10+780 damage
Total: 27d10+1755 damage (~2038.5 damage over 20 swings)

With high multiplicative damage bonuses (such as from high strength, bard songs, etc) a better critical profile means better damage versus opponents subject to critical hits. (Most monsters in endgame content are subject to criticals.)

Critical profiles can be deterimined by multiplying the range of the critical by the multiplier of the critical.
Examples:
Heavy Mace: 19-20/x2 turns into 2x2, for a critical profile of 4.
Dwarven Axe: 19-20/x3 turns into 2x3, for a critical profile of 6.
Heavy Pick: 19-20/x4 turns into 2x4, for a critical profile of 8.
Scimitar: 15-20/x2 turns into 6x2, for a critical profile of 12.
Rapiers: 15-20/x2 turns into 6x2, for a critical profile of 12.
Khopeshes: 17-20/x3 turns into 4x3, for a critical profile of 12.

Because Khopeshes, Rapiers, and Scimitars have the highest critical profiles, they are most often chosen as weapons. Also, when reading the forums be aware that many of the builds and gear layouts are from the era when:
-People favored Rapiers because it was quicker to deal Constitution damage to kill monsters than it was to kill them via damage, and Rapiers could deal constitution damage faster than any other weapon in the game
-Elves did not get racial enhancements to damage when using Scimitars
-Barbarians received an expanded critical range when raging, making Heavy Picks much more useful (16 critical profile instead of the modern critical profile of 12).

I hope that helps!

[Holinyx]

****, very nicely laid out. thanks for this, i appreciate it

[Draccus]

Another very important thing to consider at higher levels is critical effects.

A rapier or scimitar's high critical range obviously dramatically increases its DPS, as shown above. But there's far more to consider as weapons get more powerful.

Many effects are based on a critical hit. Burst effects, banishing, and many, many other things only work when you get a critical. A weapon with a 5% chance for a 4d6 light damage effect (radiance) is doing far less damage than a weapon with a 30% chance for that same effect.

When you start looking at crafted bonuses, the crit range of the weapon becomes far, far more important than the base damage.

For a rogue, who will probably want to be wielding Radiance II weapons as soon as he can craft them, the crit range is even more important than any other property. A crit with a Radiance II will result in a blind monster. The blind monster is 100% sneak attack vulnerable so a rogue's DPS skyrockets when he lands a crit with a radiance II weapon.