Please Remove Firewall Spell

[Mani]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

[Vivanto]

/signed

This game needs more nerfs.

[malaky]

/signed

Implementing a drastic change that will p*ss off a lot of players is exactly what turbine needs to do right now.

[zavozod]

Here we go again....

[Absolute-Omniscience]

They already gimped it as of mod 6.

Ofcourse it's still totally overpowering prior to that, but so is fireball, and all other nuke spells.

[Jukken]

I never had firewall lag.
Sure it's not your computer slowing down?

Casters are very squichy, they should have alot more dps then fighters.

[Aspenor]

There is no spell called "firewall." It must already be removed.

Perhaps you meant "Wall of Fire?"

[DoctorWhofan]

/NOT SIGNED,


It has been nerfed in the past. It is NOWAY as powerful as it can be. It ias the first major spell that arcanes get that can do mass descruction on a massive scale, thus allowing them (average arcanes, that is) to remove themselves from coattails of other classes and starting them on the first steps of godhood...

Why ruin their fun?

[DoctorWhofan]

There is no spell called "firewall." It must already be removed.

Perhaps you meant "Wall of Fire?"

bah! now you are just playing with your food.

[Sohryu]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tanks for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

Sounds like someone's fighter got stomped in kill count by a caster for the first time today :D

[soubal]

If the AI was good enough to recognise "OUCH, FIRE BAAAD!", then it wouldn't be a problem.

The problem is with the AI being too stupid to even attempt to avoid the firewall, not with the firewall itself.

That said, the way it's used in most circumstances borders on an exploit, and I'd request either a fix to the AI or the *temporary* disabling of the spell until such time as it is. However, since AI is such a ridiculously large and complicated thing to be re-engineering, and with the lack of commercial focus on DDO, I'd suggest that's likely to happen exactly never.


Let's face facts here. Firewall isn't going anywhere, and everyone will continue to exploit its brokenness in the game engine. It wasn't in the original rollout of the game, and it's quite obvious to see why. The game can't handle it. It's just that nowdays it's one of the 'must have' spells in the game.

[Vivanto]

snip

Did someone roll a 1 on detect sarcasm?

[Vhlad]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

Firewall is too aggressive and mean. We need to replace it with butterfly wall. Or wall of hugs and kisses.

[Monkey_Archer]

The only problem with firewall is not having it.

The game (specifically undead heavy quests like the necropolis) has been balanced assuming you have it.
It is overpowered at low levels, and almost manditory for many of mid-level quests and the only reason why acid/lighting spec casters are not a viable option.

[MrCow]

The problem is with the AI being too stupid to even attempt to avoid the firewall, not with the firewall itself.

In module 9, the fact that many humanoid casters and archers do frequent 20 foot steps when someone is relatively close to them or is within a persistent effect means that they typically will run out of the effects after it hits them a couple times and now try to not run back into the effect if they can path around it easily enough.


Firewall is too aggressive and mean. We need to replace it with butterfly wall. Or wall of hugs and kisses.

Wall of Kobolds! :)

[Sohryu]

If the AI was good enough to recognise "OUCH, FIRE BAAAD!", then it wouldn't be a problem.

The problem is with the AI being too stupid to even attempt to avoid the firewall, not with the firewall itself.

That said, the way it's used in most circumstances borders on an exploit, and I'd request either a fix to the AI or the *temporary* disabling of the spell until such time as it is. However, since AI is such a ridiculously large and complicated thing to be re-engineering, and with the lack of commercial focus on DDO, I'd suggest that's likely to happen exactly never.


Let's face facts here. Firewall isn't going anywhere, and everyone will continue to exploit its brokenness in the game engine. It wasn't in the original rollout of the game, and it's quite obvious to see why. The game can't handle it. It's just that nowdays it's one of the 'must have' spells in the game.

LOL, firewall, an exploit, that's a good one! :eek: :rolleyes:

Can we say the "e" word on the forums now?

[DoctorWhofan]

Did someone roll a 1 on detect sarcasm?

IT's before the caffiene has hit the system.

[Phidius]

<sarcasm DC="32" Type="Will">
Rejoice, OP!! Turbine has heard your pleas for mercy, and has granted your fondest wish!!

We give you Orthons, Bearded Devils, Pit Fiends, and Horned Devils!!! Now, when you DO see a Wall of Fire, you can just laugh at the noob caster who probably just sh*t their pants, and pressed the wrong key by accident.
</sarcasm>

You do realize that other people are in the game for reasons other than to help you boost your kill count, right?

I'm really curious to know what exploit Soubal is refering to.

[poonce]

Sounds like someone's fighter got stomped in kill count by a caster for the first time today :D

Lol, +1 Rep, this actually made me smile for the first time today.

P.S there is nothing more satisfying that throwing down a FireWall and standing there blocking in it with your Massive SkyVault Sheild and taking no damage.

Other caster run around and jump in them like they drank to much Gasoline in their day . .

[Ayspy]

Deffo signed /sarcasm ON/

remove haste, rage, blur, displacment, grter hero too while you re at it. Oh ye and remove bards from the game too, and clerics for that matter.

Now go swing your axe, move along move along.

Just so you know OP, WoF aint at all as useful at end game.

/sarcasm OFF/

[Kistilan]

The only problem with firewall is not having it.

The game (specifically undead heavy quests like the necropolis) has been balanced assuming you have it.
It is overpowered at low levels, and almost manditory for many of mid-level quests and the only reason why acid/lighting spec casters are not a viable option.

Kist is acid/light & spell penetrate spec'd....

Don't get me wrong, I threw a few points to fire/ice and do well with my walls of fire too. (Somehow it's viable - and I don't recall how but I think it's by not min-maxing enhancements)

[Mani]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!

[soubal]

I'm really curious to know what exploit Soubal is refering to.

lay down firewalls, draw aggro, pull train of mobs repeatedly back and forth through firewalls.

It's directly exploiting that wonderful hole in the AI that doesn't seem to understand that a big wall of flames is probably a bad thing to run into: even the dumber Ogres out there would have figured out that walking into the big red thing makes Oog hurty after the second time or so...

That said, maybe they are working on it...

I played a sorc at release, before wall of fire, up to level 10 (cap at the time), and did just fine without it :) If I did it, anyone can! ;)

[bigpapatazz]

OP will be really mad when the casters are one shot killing everything in sight. Perhaps he will want FOD and Banish removed to.

[soubal]

On the subject of it though, why is it that if I walk through a firewall that's cast by my buddy, it's like it's not even there... but if he throws out a grease slick, I'm sliding all over the place?

[Burtle]

hehe.... I love it when "high dps" tanks think they are the complete and total end all be all of kill counts between lvls 6-14..... I gots news for ya OP...GET REAL...

We sorcs LOVE the idea of incinerating our enemies in a big blazing wall of death... HEHE...

'Sides I only use it when my acid fog just ain't doin enuff damage...or my ball lightning isn't insta killing em or my cloudkill isn't melting them quick enuff...or my chain lightning isn't frying their neurons..

geeze find a REAL reason to b**** about something...:D

[Monkey_Archer]

Kist is acid/light & spell penetrate spec'd....

Don't get me wrong, I threw a few points to fire/ice and do well with my walls of fire too. (Somehow it's viable - and I don't recall how but I think it's by not min-maxing enhancements)

My sorc is pure acid/lightning spec... never had firewall and never will. It works "fine" for the most part, but there are just certain situations (such as tanking sorjek) where no matter how many mana pots i drink, it still isnt the same as what 1 firewall could do :rolleyes:

[Junts]

Also, mod9 has done a lot to force people who want to use firewall to go fire/cold, since mobs are running 30-50 point resistances .. firewall is primarily effective against the mobs it his when you drop a critical, in fact, as its only worth 30-60 points per tick otherwise.

[Theolin]

On the subject of it though, why is it that if I walk through a firewall that's cast by my buddy, it's like it's not even there... but if he throws out a grease slick, I'm sliding all over the place?

Ah this is simple I don't want to hurt you ...... much just laugh at you rolling round on the ground :)

[Sohryu]

Sounds like someone's fighter got stomped in kill count by a caster for the first time today :D


Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!

Yay I was right! What do I win? :D

[Monkey_Archer]

Also, mod9 has done a lot to force people who want to use firewall to go fire/cold, since mobs are running 30-50 point resistances ..

that has also made all acid spells comletely useless, even for acid spec'd casters...

I would probably respec mine... if spaming ball lighting wasnt so fun :)

[bobbryan2]

/agree

That's definitely what this game needs... to reduce caster's abilitiy to do sustained DPS by even more. Push them just a little bit further behind clerics...

[Bloodhaven]

Please remove meele weapons of every kind <even unarmed>.

Meele costs no mana and can be dun infinite times. This leads to unlimited damage.\

Nerf meele!

Casters unite!

[bobbryan2]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter

Because you put all your points into con instead of a stat that increases damage? Like strength?

[dopey69]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

Boro is prolly working on that as we speak :(

[cdemeritt]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!

Funny... I use Wall of Fire all the time, but more so Finger of Death.. kills almost everything, before your short legged fighter can even get to it... want that removed too? how about removing casters altogether, leave bards to buff you and that's it.

[LookingForABentoBox]

I hereby present a petition to retroactively consider the thread discussing the issue of whether wall of fire should be purple, as per PnP, or orange, as per the color of regular fire.

[cdemeritt]

I hereby present a petition to retroactively consider the thread discussing the issue of whether wall of fire should be purple, as per PnP, or orange, as per the color of regular fire.

I think as it is magical fire it should be blue like the shrine fires...

And as for this thread, drops a firewall and kites the post through it.

[cardmj1]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

This issue was discussed to death sometime ago. You have to realize that the power of classes ebb and flow through the levels. At low levels, melees are the powerful classes and at mid levels, arcanes are the most powerful. At high levels, we are back to melee's being on top again. That is why group play is so intregal to the game. It's not one class, one build or one person dominating the entire game. Each class brings a skill to the party that will enable success. Players need to play strategically and work as a team if you are going to succeed in this game, but if that is not the type of play you want then I suggest a FPS.

[Eurytos]

If a firewall is doing more damage than a tank past level 12, then there is little hope for that tank. Not to mention, Firewall doesn't work on anything in Mod9 anyway.

[arminius]

Yes, because no one ever heard before of the concept that magic users were supposed to be powerful. All the wizards, witches, sorcerers, shamans, and warlocks of 6000 years of human mythical tradition never used magic for anything more than heating a nice cup of Earl Grey, or removing a wart. At capstone, they could relieve substantial amounts of hangnail pain (or if they took the Vengeance Against Enemies build path, they could even Inflict Temporary Constipation), w00t!

_

[MrCow]

Firewall doesn't work on anything in Mod9 anyway.

It still works on:


Tieflings
Troglodytes
Bezekira
Air Elementals
Earth Elementals
Shadow Fiends
Humans
Mephits (Non-fire)
Wildmen
Trolls
Fiendish Spiders


So it still works in Module 9.

[abull74]

Seriously? I hope Mani, the OP, is just joking. If not, you are a complete idiot and should never be allowed to speak nor breed.

Wow...some people are just too stupid to play games.....why do you even have a computer?

You know, while you are at it, you might as well take out Implosion and blade barrier....this makes the clerics way too overpowered and the tanks just cant keep up.

YOU CRACK HEAD!!!!

I AM THE FPOON!!!

[tinyelvis]

If the AI was good enough to recognise "OUCH, FIRE BAAAD!", then it wouldn't be a problem.

The problem is with the AI being too stupid to even attempt to avoid the firewall, not with the firewall itself...........



I love it when people make poorly thought out comments like this. Use your head mate, think what exploitative behave could occur if you could chase monster back with a simple spell like firewall. All of this work in ai programing just so players could switch their exploitative behavior with a different debilitating effect? Would this ai buff also apply to other spells like glitterdust or traps? Parties would quickly take advantage of this to cc, isolate or neutralize mobs. You would need mobs that can make complex decisions based on rewards or goals. If you think a firewall lags a game, imagine what you wish would do. Essentially what you need is to make a mob as smart as you. Well, maybe you are a bad example, but as smart as at least an average intelligent person.

[Khurse]

My barb's managed to outkill equal/higher level caster's with WoF in Delera's.

Should my Barbarian be nerfed? Cause if I'm gettting nerfed, I'm going to demand that all you people who are better players than I am be nerfed as well!

[Creeper]

A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat.

You got a chuckle out of me with that. I am hoping this was meant to be funny.

The only spell that doesn't have the potential to output more damage than a tank is Merfolk's Blessing.

It's kinda like saying a match can do more damage to a bale of hay than a single person with a pair of scissors.

It's magic!!

[Monkey_Archer]

It's kinda like saying a match can do more damage to a bale of hay than a single person with a pair of scissors.


But its not fair! I spent all day sharpening those scissors :(

:D

[shores11]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

/not signed

A caster should be able to do more damage than any melee in D&D or DDO. I'm sorry but there is a caster that can not then I'm afraid that caster is the on that is gimped.

[Theolin]

I seem to remember in the old PnP game of way back when ...... in the beginning (Low levels) any fighter could take out any spell caster ...... and by level 20 its the other way round .... it always was that way

Or at low levels the spell casters hired the brauwn to protect them so they could get to high levels then its the brawn hiering the casters to protect them ..... rolls switch

[shores11]

I seem to remember in the old PnP game of way back when ...... in the beginning (Low levels) any fighter could take out any spell caster ...... and by level 20 its the other way round .... it always was that way

Or at low levels the spell casters hired the brauwn to protect them so they could get to high levels then its the brawn hiering the casters to protect them ..... rolls switch

This is true, great point.

[Phidius]

lay down firewalls, draw aggro, pull train of mobs repeatedly back and forth through firewalls.

It's directly exploiting that wonderful hole in the AI that doesn't seem to understand that a big wall of flames is probably a bad thing to run into: even the dumber Ogres out there would have figured out that walking into the big red thing makes Oog hurty after the second time or so...

That said, maybe they are working on it...

I played a sorc at release, before wall of fire, up to level 10 (cap at the time), and did just fine without it :) If I did it, anyone can! ;)

Ah - I don't don't "kite" mobs through my Wall of Fire... I just stand in it and try to vorp/disrupt/smite everything before they die from the flames.

My cleric, however, kites stuff a lot - perhaps you were thinking of Blade Barrier? WoF hits stuff whether it moves through or not...

I guess it's also an exploit to take advantage of the mob's inability to realize that their best bet is to take out the healers first. They should kill those, then sit back and laugh at the melee who forgot that their uberness was built on the work of others.


OP will be really mad when the casters are one shot killing everything in sight. Perhaps he will want FOD and Banish removed to.


We got him covered - welcome to Shavarath. :)

[Twerpp]

/signed

I enjoy running deleras watching rangers bow and rogues pierce skellies for hours on end. Can we get rid of haste too?

[Mani]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

[Twerpp]

Baaaaaaaaaw~!

[ToyVIP]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

I could say soooooooooooo much in response to this... but i'll refrain from most of it...

Tip1: get in there BEFORE the caster does... example, my 10 sorc on cannith, couldnt even get a spell off before the 4 melees were in there and things were dead.

Tip 2: Stand IN the firewall and swing at whats in there, its only certain quests that the firewall will oneshot mobs, higher up, firewall doesnt do squat to a lot of mobs cause their hp and resistances are too high

Tip 3: dont have a caster in the party and see what the healers have to say about that :P

[cdemeritt]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

You would really not like Reaver's Fate back in mod 7, where we casters told you tanks to go stand in the corner and stay out of the way.

As for Wall of Fire, it's powerful at lvls 8-15, but after that it isn't as much so.

BTW what lvl are you? you haven't see anything yet if you are complaining about WoF. yes it does more damage than your fighter... but even my melee's loves having a caster with WoF in quests. it is what it is, part of the game, casters will outkill you at higher levels. then comes the raids, and your fighter will be glad to have sorcs that can kill everything quickly, so you can focus on the bosses.

And again, if you haven't seen a insta-death sorc yet, they'll out kill you even more often than WoF does. You can beat on a mob for 5 swings and it might have a sliver left, yet that sorc can steal that kill from you from across the room, or worse, charm the mob, so you can't kill it.

My Sorc solos in the Vale, as should any caster be able to, but my melees tend not to do as much by themselves (they can, but it just isn't as much fun).

You're revenge is to laugh at the caster as he goes splat, due to a low con.

[ToyVIP]

You're revenge is to laugh at the caster as he goes splat, due to a low con.


Not so much the con, some casters have a decent con, its more the hit die of a caster so no matter how high that con is, your still squishy lol

[Creeper]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.


Lol!!!!

He is serious!!!

You would really like my monk/pally/sorc. He can cast firewall AND do more melee dps than your tank! :D

Multitasking

NERF him!

[Memnir]

No.

Let me provide you with an example of a high level encounter...


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/EnPsyane/full_wall_of_fire.jpg

Please note - the melee are standing back, in reserve to pick off stragglers.


If you want your Fighter to be useful in these encounters - learn Intimidate. Wall of Fire is WAI, and I'm sorry if that ruffles your feathers.

[bobbryan2]

Not so much the con, some casters have a decent con, its more the hit die of a caster so no matter how high that con is, your still squishy lol

Only bad casters can be considered squishy.

[baddax]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

lol!

[baddax]

Only bad casters can be considered squishy.

qft.

[whysper]

I love it when people make poorly thought out comments like this. Use your head mate, think what exploitative behave could occur if you could chase monster back with a simple spell like firewall.

Of course the AI should be able to recognise and run out of harmful ongoing AoE damage (just as it should move and dodge a bit more as a general rule.) An added check for breaking out when trapped would solve all but the most dedicated "exploiting", which due to the time it would consume would be pointless anyway.

[cdemeritt]

I was just thinking, if he's this upset about WoF, how do you think he'll react when he finds out that a well played Drow Tempest Rogue will out kill him 2 to 1 in 90% of content?

[malaky]

Wait, the OP was serious??

[Anneliese]

Of course the AI should be able to recognise and run out of harmful ongoing AoE damage (just as it should move and dodge a bit more as a general rule.) An added check for breaking out when trapped would solve all but the most dedicated "exploiting", which due to the time it would consume would be pointless anyway.

Group of 5 rangers and 1 wiz enters dungeon.

Get ahold of all melee mobs, run into corner, put FW up in front of group. Manyshot/Range away untill all dead, repeat and continue .

If you include a timer for these mobs to run tru the FW, just wait until timer is up and kite away...



An "Advanced AI" that could circumvent most of these problems is possible, but will not be implemented because it costs too much CPU time. And CPU time spent equals money spent for Turbine, so it will not happen.

Its no problem in a single player game, because you have one (or maybe even more) CPU cores that are there just for you and nobody else.

[Taojeff]

If the AI was good enough to recognise "OUCH, FIRE BAAAD!", then it wouldn't be a problem.

The problem is with the AI being too stupid to even attempt to avoid the firewall, not with the firewall itself.

That said, the way it's used in most circumstances borders on an exploit, and I'd request either a fix to the AI or the *temporary* disabling of the spell until such time as it is. However, since AI is such a ridiculously large and complicated thing to be re-engineering, and with the lack of commercial focus on DDO, I'd suggest that's likely to happen exactly never.


Let's face facts here. Firewall isn't going anywhere, and everyone will continue to exploit its brokenness in the game engine. It wasn't in the original rollout of the game, and it's quite obvious to see why. The game can't handle it. It's just that nowdays it's one of the 'must have' spells in the game.

this is old news, the devs do not care about balancing casters with other classes. If they did they would make mana pots and shrines so available (course they will let u pay for em its about money...not balance).

[Raelg14]

Firewall is too aggressive and mean. We need to replace it with butterfly wall. Or wall of hugs and kisses.


ROFL OK Vhlad that one is good.

[kingfisher]

this thread makes me laugh

[Mhykke]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

Yeah, I'm tired of all those casters firewalling all those devils, orthons, pit fiends and horned devils......you know, pretty much all the important mobs of the past few updates......:rolleyes:


Or maybe you could try leveling past 10 before suggesting sweeping gamewide changes? Whaddya think? Sound good? Good.

[whysper]

Group of 5 rangers and 1 wiz enters dungeon.

Get ahold of all melee mobs, run into corner, put FW up in front of group. Manyshot/Range away untill all dead, repeat and continue.
As a rule it is probably best to steer away from guessing at how much CPU time Turbine has to spare, it tends to be simplistic.

An "advanced AI" is already incorporated, but even without it enemies, when faced with an obstacle, either move around it or in some cases simply range themselves. Assuming they have no resistances, that is, nor magic-users. And do not forget Dungeon Alert, either.

Besides, would this not be incredibly boring? You can perfectly well trash a dungeon with 5 Rangers kiting the mobs anyway.

As a sidenote, I really hope they start balancing things for a party of 5 Rangers...

[Hakushi]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

Firewall is a powerfull spell, but not overpowered imo, it's a great spell for mid lvls. It's very effective in some lvl range like someone mentionned (something like 7-13) but in the late game, it's getting less and less used since a lot of mobs gain fire resistance or immunity. From your post, you must be in the lvl rang 7-10 because thats where the spell is the most effective and makes a huge difference. Continue up and you'll see that as you lvl up, you'll have plenty of time to reach and swing at the monsters before they get killed by a firewall. Try a caster and you will see why the spell is popular.

One thing that would need to be fixed is the UI, there's no need to remove the spell, but mobs should realize they are sitting in a fire and just move out of it.


Because you put all your points into con instead of a stat that increases damage? Like strength?

Because you know what his stats are?

[Aranticus]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

OP, you might want to relook at the way YOU play and be a contributing factor, rather than how others play and be a whiner. my fighter doesnt sit at the back, i rush up to the frontline, spam intimidate and invite the caster to spam firewall. in the process i get a few kills as well

[Mercules]

On the subject of it though, why is it that if I walk through a firewall that's cast by my buddy, it's like it's not even there... but if he throws out a grease slick, I'm sliding all over the place?

Because Grease is more fun that way?

Grease, Heighten, Extend, nice slope and you can keep a party from finishing a quest for at least 1/4 hour if cast in the right spot.;)

[adamkatt]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!

Once you hit the vale wall of fire becomes a lot less useful so just relax...

[Lerincho]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

no.

try again

reroll


no.

[Hendrik]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!

His big fat 36 INT and the ability to reshape the very fabric of existence to his whim?

[Visty]

Because Grease is more fun that way?

Grease, Heighten, Extend, nice slope and you can keep a party from finishing a quest for at least 1/4 hour if cast in the right spot.;)

heighten doesnt work on grease :p

[Vivanto]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how[..]

Well, have you seen an actual Wall of Fire being cast in RL? I mean seriously, those things are badass!

[adamkatt]

My barb's managed to outkill equal/higher level caster's with WoF in Delera's.

Should my Barbarian be nerfed? Cause if I'm gettting nerfed, I'm going to demand that all you people who are better players than I am be nerfed as well!


Ive have done this before, what were ya using? Holy of pg or something similar? Or one of those fancy lvl 8 disrupters.

[Lerincho]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

and your suggest would not balance combat, it would just make it even more melee intensive than it already is. so because you're tank is too slow running wise you want to nerf everyone else?


reroll

[Sohryu]

and your suggest would not balance combat, it would just make it even more melee intensive than it already is. so because you're tank is too slow running wise you want to nerf everyone else?


reroll

But that's what today's society teaches us, isn't it? "It's not my problem, it's everyone else's! So the world must bend to suit ME!"

[Mercules]

heighten doesnt work on grease :p

You are correct, compendium states it doesn't. It SHOULD though, any spell with a Save should allow Heighten.

[Aspenor]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

I suggest you actually play the whole game before making bad suggestions.

[Draclaud]

OP, You're going to love "Wail of the Banshee"...Of course if you're patient you get to be king again in Shavarath. Relax, the game is pretty balanced overall.

[Cleitanious]

Don't nerf Wall of Fire, just give monsters a a random chance based on INT score to avoid the fire.

[Hendrik]

OP, You're going to love "Wail of the Banshee"...Of course if you're patient you get to be king again in Shavarath. Relax, the game is pretty balanced overall.


And then get totally ****ed off when the CLR decimates his kill count with Implosion...

That will be a funny thread to read as well...

[Kistilan]

I suggest you actually play the whole game before making bad suggestions.

I'm trying... It's hard though. :o These Archmagi guys won't take me to the end part of the game.

[miceelf88]

There are always going to be these dumb suggestions as soon as someone bumps up against other people's playstyles that don't allow them to be king of the world.

Remember the pleas from some casters to remove haste from the game because people were asking them to cast it?

Funny how you don't see fighter types pleading for the removal of greater command (also a very powerful spell in the right context). Why? Because they get to kill the helpless mobs in that case.

They've already nerfed FW plenty. The mobs in necropolis aren't all affected by it. (that was one of the nerfs that defied logic). And there used to be an ACTUAL exploit one could do with it, involving disregarding line of sight rules).

I'm all for AI improvements, but the firewall casting mage is disadvantaged in other ways: he doesn't have a limitless amount of castings, unlike melee types. mobs that have evasion or fire resistance are essentially immune. And enemy casters DO have limitless SP, giving them an advantage over PC casters that mob melees don't have over PC melees.

[Mani]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

[Lerincho]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. The all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

you really play with some lame parties, ebcause that isn't even close to how this game is played anymore. that was Mod 4 and 5 tactics. game has evolved passed this.

don't like the tactics by party leaders, form your own party and create your own rules. Keep suggestion like this to yourself on removing a spell.

[Yshkabibble]

Well if everyone is so educated on wall of fire… Then explain to me how a skinny butt 6 con elf can out dps my big bad momma dwarven fighter who happens to have fire on her weapons too? If turbine doesn’t remove wall of fire from the game then at least let the caster cast wall of fire on the crucible outside so we can watch the monsters cook in the dungeon and be done with the **** quest!


Explain to me how an 8 intelligence 4ft tall midget with a sword can out kill my Super Genius Elf wielding the power of cleansing flame?

[dharq]

There are always going to be these dumb suggestions as soon as someone bumps up against other people's playstyles that don't allow them to be king of the world.

Remember the pleas from some casters to remove haste from the game because people were asking them to cast it?

Funny how you don't see fighter types pleading for the removal of greater command (also a very powerful spell in the right context). Why? Because they get to kill the helpless mobs in that case.

They've already nerfed FW plenty. The mobs in necropolis aren't all affected by it. (that was one of the nerfs that defied logic). And there used to be an ACTUAL exploit one could do with it, involving disregarding line of sight rules).

I'm all for AI improvements, but the firewall casting mage is disadvantaged in other ways: he doesn't have a limitless amount of castings, unlike melee types. mobs that have evasion or fire resistance are essentially immune. And enemy casters DO have limitless SP, giving them an advantage over PC casters that mob melees don't have over PC melees.

Infinite SP for loss of wall of fire.

I'll take that trade any day! Where do I sign up?

Mani, you sound like a real peach of a player.. All about you, not about the team at all. By the way, did you realize you usually need a team and team work to survive in this game yet?

Maybe next run your healer will "forget" to toss some heals on your worthless behind when you run ahead of the group and pull aggro from a whole room when the rest of the team isn't ready.

Oh wait, that would just make you b**** more because the healers don't know their place now...

[Lerincho]

Explain to me how an 8 intelligence 4ft tall midget with a sword can out kill my Super Genius Elf wielding the power of cleansing flame?

simple. the shorty cut off the head of the elf by swinging wildly and did not notice.

:D


NOW, aren't we thankful that friendly fire is off in this game. :P

[Lerincho]

Infinite SP for loss of wall of fire.

I'll take that trade any day! Where do I sign up?

Mani, you sound like a real peach of a player.. All about you, not about the team at all. By the way, did you realize you usually need a team and team work to survive in this game yet?

Maybe next run your healer will "forget" to toss some heals on your worthless behind when you run ahead of the group and pull aggro from a whole room when the rest of the team isn't ready.

Oh wait, that would just make you b**** more because the healers don't know their place now...

anyone know what server master mani is on?

[Roman]

If the AI was good enough to recognise "OUCH, FIRE BAAAD!", then it wouldn't be a problem.




So true. Other than undead, no mob should be dumb enough to willingly stand in a wall of fire.

[Hendrik]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

LOL.

That's not an issue with Wall of Fire, that's an issue with unoriginal, lemming, herd mentality and the inability to think.

Drop group and find another next time. Do not suggest removal of a Spell due to party ignorance.

[Raelg14]

Holy **** this thread is still going??? Let it go man, let it go. Wait until you get to higher levels and the Sorc, Wiz, Cleric, or FvS are one shot killing things with FOD, PK, Destruction, WoB. LOL

[Aranticus]

So true. Other than undead, no mob should be dumb enough to willingly stand in a wall of fire.

you should see how dumb some players are then....


"oh you mean thats not our <insert AOE>?"

[Lerincho]

So true. Other than undead, no mob should be dumb enough to willingly stand in a wall of fire.

FYI or background information. they have adjusted mob AI and they no longer just sit in the firewall as they use to. now they actively try to avoid it; however, they are obsessed with killing you, so if you are running in and out of the firewall they follow because #1 priority is your death, not the preservation.

[Ivid]

Hilarious. I didn't realize the goal was to have the highest kill count. I always thought it was getting as much experience and loot in the fastest, easiest and most entertaining way possible, while keeping those pesky repair bills down!

There's a question I ask myself with everything, "Hot Fudge Sundae, or... Hot Poker in the Eye?" Others, I've heard, just ask, "Cake or Death?" I can see where the repetition of Hot Fudge Sundaes, or Cake, can really get on one's nerves...

So, I propose the Reverse Min/Max Challenge.

The idea? Level any class from 1 - 20 with the worse stats possible.

Fighter types will roll with maximum Intelligence and Wisdom.
Specialty classes will roll with maximum Constitution and Charisma.
Casters will roll with maximum Constitution and Dexterity.

All classes may put a total of 2 points into any other stat they wish.
All feats must be used to the absolute least advantage, i.e. Skill Focus: Swim.

The use of any spell or spell-like ability, to include effects from enhancements is completely forbidden, except for pure 20th level casters who may at their sole discretion use 1st level spells (with Heighten turned off).

All classes will restrict themselves to the least useful weapons (by damage dice and critical threat range) preferably ones in which they do not have weapon proficiency - like kamas and shuriken.

The best armor that may be used is regular, store bought leather and a buckler.

Consumables, except those that can be purchased and used in a tavern are not permitted, except for Tasty Hams.

Additionally for the truly hard core, the final optional rule set is Permadeath.

It will be appropriate for you to explain to any other people you group with that your character is as gimped as it possibly can be.

So...um... Server Downtime is basically a bad thing...

[Kistilan]

FYI or background information. they have adjusted mob AI and they no longer just sit in the firewall as they use to. now they actively try to avoid it; however, they are obsessed with killing you, so if you are running in and out of the firewall they follow because #1 priority is your death, not the preservation.

Bless their little hearts! :p Don't ever stop trying, little mobs. Don't you ever give up on me. <3-Firewall

[Lerincho]

Bless their little hearts! :p Don't ever stop trying, little mobs. Don't you ever give up on me. <3-Firewall

i bet some of them are saying "I kelllll you" in their own language.

[Missing_Minds]

Holy **** this thread is still going??? Let it go man, let it go. Wait until you get to higher levels and the Sorc, Wiz, Cleric, or FvS are one shot killing things with FOD, PK, Destruction, WoB. LOL

No. You forgot. They extended, maximized, empowered, and just to show off quickened and eschewed materials (so they didn't waste any valuable components) on this wall of fire spell of firewall. :)

[Monkey_Archer]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

:eek: people still play like that????

hmm.. i guess going F2P just reset the quest tactics learning curve :D

[dharq]

So true. Other than undead, no mob should be dumb enough to willingly stand in a wall of fire.

True. But if that's true, then it's also true that mobs should avoid big glowing disco balls, grease patches, sleet storms, fogs, big moving fields of ghostly blades, sickly green rays of death, high-level clerics, and most melee characters. I mean, why charge in on a stumpy 4ft armored dwarf with a big shield and a sharp axe? Doesn't sound very intelligent. Why not just shoot them from range and get somewhere they can't climb in that 100 lb suit of armor.

It'd be much cooler, imo, if they'd give us wall of stone and wall of ice, so we could create choke points and force mobs to feed through the gauntlet of melee slaughter in single file..

Regardless, the game is what it is. Why not just play it and enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it, find something you do enjoy.

[Mani]

Holy **** this thread is still going??? Let it go man, let it go. Wait until you get to higher levels and the Sorc, Wiz, Cleric, or FvS are one shot killing things with FOD, PK, Destruction, WoB. LOL

I already had the experience to ride on that pleasure cruise… How would you like it if every monster you ran up to and took a swing at disappeared because it got pk’ed. I could go through a whole quest like that… Oh there’s a monster, and start running to it… Ah darn pk’ed! At least those spells have a save which can be increased. I don’t think fire wall has a save.

[Mani]

No. You forgot. They extended, maximized, empowered, and just to show off quickened and eschewed materials (so they didn't waste any valuable components) on this wall of fire spell of firewall. :)

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.

[Lerincho]

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.

wow..... how truly out of touch you are with this game. it says April 2006, but did you take like a 3 year break or something? Empower and Maximized have ALWAYS stacked.

[dharq]

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.

They absolutely should:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell

This isn't WoW, or EQ, or DAoC, or SWG, or AoC, or CoH/V.... it's D&D. And it's good.

[vegabond1969]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

You are insane. Thats just the only thing I can think of. Insane!:eek:

[Yurtrus]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.


This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums and that itself is something.. Are you absolutely brain dead? Whoever agrees with this needs to find another game and stop making what we have left null and void.

Absolutely ridiculous..

[Aranticus]

I already had the experience to ride on that pleasure cruise… How would you like it if every monster you ran up to and took a swing at disappeared because it got pk’ed. I could go through a whole quest like that… Oh there’s a monster, and start running to it… Ah darn pk’ed! At least those spells have a save which can be increased. I don’t think fire wall has a save.

play a caster

[roggane]

haven't seen a nerf post in quite awhile, thanks for the laugh

[Missing_Minds]

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.

*laughs* ok, I have to congratulate you. You are so beating out Quikster at the moment.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=199124

[Hendrik]

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.


You may actually want to go back and re-familiarize yourself with the rules of D&D and DDO before you make any more postings.

Please.

Thank you.

If you keep editing your OP, there will be nothing left!

[Mani]

anyone know what server master mani is on?

You’ll know its me when you see a LFM saying “Casters without Wall Of Fire Please”

[Lerincho]

You’ll know its me when you see a LFM saying “Casters without Wall Of Fire Please”

what server?

[J1NG]

Since this is a suggestion thread and there's been oh so many suggestions lately that seem to be taken notice of. I'd like to "burror0" (;) :p) an idea and now share mine:

There's a simple way to make the Wall of Fire spell less of a hack spell for mid and later levels, which will probably cost the devs only 1 hour to change and 6 hours to test max.

Make Spell Resistance affect all damaging spells too.

No seriously. If SR was effective vs damaging spells as well, many of these abused spells like Wall of Fire, it will be extremely beneficial to the game.

Why?

Casters will still need fighters to keep them from being killed, promoting group play. It will remain true to DnD rules. And will prevent all enemies with SR from just walking into a Wall of Fire and dying because the caster just thew one out and kited them in and out of it till they're dead, all "without" the need to create more complex AI or other nerfs to other things which may be easier to fix by.

;)

J1NG

[Phidius]

Not so much the con, some casters have a decent con, its more the hit die of a caster so no matter how high that con is, your still squishy lol

Really? I hadn't noticed...


Once you hit the vale wall of fire becomes a lot less useful so just relax...

I've never seen a mob leash in the Vale, so I love to gather them ujp for one Wall of Fire. Sometimes they get stuck at a patch of dandelions, but for the most part they are pretty compliant about chasing me.


Well, have you seen an actual Wall of Fire being cast in RL? I mean seriously, those things are badass!

You have so got to share whatever it is you're smoking :)


Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

1. Don't accept grief from anyone. Speak up for yourself, or just drop group. Passive Aggression is a no-win situation.
2. Active shield blocking is only useful until the caster gets the aggro. If you want to wipe your party, you'll need to actually step out of the way, as it's your body that's blocking, not the shield.
3. I see that you do understand the counter to Wall of Fire. It generates aggro, and generally gets the caster killed who is not playing as part of the team.

I urge you to level up a caster - I think you'll both enjoy it, and understand the pros and cons a lot better.


Explain to me how an 8 intelligence 4ft tall midget with a sword can out kill my Super Genius Elf wielding the power of cleansing flame?

Halfling Cunning/Guile FTW

[Phidius]

You’ll know its me when you see a LFM saying “Casters without Wall Of Fire Please”

I don't know of a single wizard/sorc without Wall of Fire. However, if you only accept Bards and Clerics as casters in the mid-range, I think you'll find your LFM being ignored as many of us will notice the lack of caster in the group and LFM.

I do think this is a good idea, though. Any additional information that tells people what to expect about the party leader's expectation is always welcome.

[Mercules]

Empower and maximize shouldn’t stack. But that’s a different nerf.

They should stack, but should work in a different manner. Many have suggested that they use up a higher slot than normal so a Maximized/Empowered Firewall would be a level 9 spell instead of being able to do such as soon as you reach 5th level.:D

[Mani]

They absolutely should:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell

This isn't WoW, or EQ, or DAoC, or SWG, or AoC, or CoH/V.... it's D&D. And it's good.


Right, but this isn’t D&D either. This is DDO and there will always be some small exceptions to the rules to balance the game so more people can enjoy the game. Maximize and Empower should work the same way Combat Expertise and Power Attack does, you can have only one active.

[arcticwolf666]

Just a bunch of melee types upset because they cannot kill everything in sight. God forbid those that get a kill in the game other than melee types. If they nerf Wall of Fire, they need to nerf melee down to as little dmg as possible

[Creeper]

Right, but this isn’t D&D either. This is DDO and there will always be some small exceptions to the rules to balance the game so more people can enjoy the game. Maximize and Empower should work the same way Combat Expertise and Power Attack does, you can have only one active.

So instead of doing 150% more damage they would only do 100%?

They would still be killing mobs before you, hot rod.

You really need to rethink your class stereotypes or roll a caster.

[Lerincho]

Right, but this isn’t D&D either. This is DDO and there will always be some small exceptions to the rules to balance the game so more people can enjoy the game. Maximize and Empower should work the same way Combat Expertise and Power Attack does, you can have only one active.

you're ignorance is showing.

1, power attack is to do more damage
2, combat expertise is to avoid more damage
= so yes they do not stack, common sense here applies as they are exact opposites.

1, maximize is to do more damage
2, empower is to do more damage
= stackable because they both do MORE damage, again common sense here applies.

truly do you play the same game the rest of us do? been gone for a few years?

[Creeper]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

Maybe one day you can be a party leader and develop your own tactics. For example: You can have the casters intimidate and shield block while you try to use WOF scrolls. :D

[dasein18]

This is a funny thread. Made me laugh over and over again. Keep up the good work..

one of my favorites is someone complaining about mobs not be smart enough to realize they are running back & forth in fire...lol.. how about blade barrier the dancing ball (after your other ogre buddies run towards a disco ball and get stuck in it..), etc. For that matter.. how about why do ogres not run away after they realize they are getting their butts kicked by dps toons.

[Slugitt]

Cry me a river!!!!!! Shoulda been here when they sold WoF scrolls on venders. Then you'd know what over kill was.

I bought a few hundred of them scrolls before they nerfed em out of the vender.

The more rules you have them make, the less freedom you have to enjoy.

[Samiusbot]

So true. Other than undead, no mob should be dumb enough to willingly stand in a wall of fire.

We as players we have never stood around a guy firing off burning rocks from his hands, or standing in flying blades of doom to try to kill said guy!

[Mani]

Cry me a river!!!!!! Shoulda been here when they sold WoF scrolls on venders. Then you'd know what over kill was.

I bought a few hundred of them scrolls before they nerfed em out of the vender.

The more rules you have them make, the less freedom you have to enjoy.

Having the ability to buy unlimited amounts of mana pot’s from the ddo store is what scares me… WoF should be adjusted, or removed from the game.

[Yajerman01]

i say we down scorching ray and searing light as well. I need all the breaks I can get in PVP!:D

<puts on SAcotties Voice>
they are just too powerful Captain!

[Samiusbot]

A greataxe is a touch spell that does 1d12+str on hit, that you can cast as long as you have HP should they remove that too?

Or fighters can keep fighting as long as they have HP, should they not get healed anymore so sooner or later they run out of HP because that is just broken!

[KatoJaks]

I say get rid of all damage dealing spells and turn casters into only buff-bots for the tanks. Let's turn this game into one big swing fest for melee clickers. <<<<Dripping sarcasm....

[Sohryu]

Does the OP even have a caster over lvl 7 or 8?

[unionyes]

I always thought WoF was UNDERpowered, as a lot of mobs have fire resistance past mid level. I have hoped and hoped for new Wall type spells, such as Wall of Ice, Wall of Acid, Wall of Electricity, and Wall of Sonic. Best of all would be Wall of Force, since there isn't a Resist Force spell out there.

The OP's post seems to indicate that there is a bit of a lack of team play somewhere.

Sometimes, depending on the quest, my Sorc is by far the kill count leader. Other quests, not even close. It all depends on the party makeup, the playstyle of the group, and the mobs in the quest.

To put it as succinctly as possible: If you will not stand in a WoF, intimidating and otherwise keeping the mobs in the fire when it is the most practical and efficient way to kill them, I will not haste, blur, displace, resist, hero/greater hero, or otherwise buff you so you can go kill things. And I will drop group in a heartbeat, and put you on my Friends List (a small list).

Kill counts are very subjective anyhow. The only use they are, IMO, is to guage your melee strength against other melee types. If you are both swinging at the mobs roughly the same amount of times, and one melee is outkilling the other by a large margin, then you have an idea that you are not doing as much damage as the other melee.

In a quest, there is only one set of numbers that count, and thats the XP awarded.

[Lerincho]

Having the ability to buy unlimited amounts of mana pot’s from the ddo store is what scares me… WoF should be adjusted, or removed from the game.

no it should not be adjusted or removed. people want to spend real money for in game items, more power to them.

either learn to play a caster or stop making suggestions that you have NO information about.

[dharq]

Having the ability to buy unlimited amounts of mana pot’s from the ddo store is what scares me… WoF should be adjusted, or removed from the game.

Scares you? Seriously? Drama much?

It's a team game. It's about having the tools in your team to accomplish whatever the quest requires. Sometimes that's melee; somtimes it's ranged; sometimes it's a trapbusting rogue; sometimes it's spells. It doesn't harm you (except your ego), and it doesn't cost you any resources in the game (xp, loot, time, plat, or money).

So how in the he** does having a teammate with a spell that can help you finish quests faster scare you?

[Mani]

To put it as succinctly as possible: If you will not stand in a WoF, intimidating and otherwise keeping the mobs in the fire when it is the most practical and efficient way to kill them, I will not haste, blur, displace, resist, hero/greater hero, or otherwise buff you so you can go kill things. And I will drop group in a heartbeat, and put you on my Friends List (a small list).


This is why WoF should be removed from the game

[Lerincho]

This is why WoF should be removed from the game

and this thread is why you should be removed from game. you're that guy that is constantly watching the xp pannel comparing kill counts aren't you? Kill count means absolutely nothing to the game except you were the one lucky enough to get in the final swing.

[MrCow]

This is why WoF should be removed from the game

Utilizing this logic, spells like Glitterdust, Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog, Cloudkill, Acid Fog, Incendiary Cloud, Hypnotic Pattern, Web, Symbol of Flame, Blade Barrier, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Fear, Symbol of Stunning, Symbol of Death, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, and other persistent effects should be removed as well.

The social impact that purposely utilizing or avoiding such effects when they pose little harm to the player doesn't make for the best justification to remove a spell.

[MagicianBlade]

The wall of fire spell is way too overpowered. A single firewall can output more damage than a single tank for the same duration of combat. Also when casters are running monsters trough the aoe it tends to lag out the servers. Thanks for the nerfs Turbine, have a good day.

Actually, a simple tweak to the AI to make mobs not hang out in fires would be a fantastic idea. Then, you'd have to cast your firewall and actually hit something, and if you want them to hang out in it and take a ton of damage, hold them inside it somehow too.

and if mobs moved away from a fire that just suddenly magically appears around them, that'd be a great ai change too. (like when the mage brings up a firewall but they haven't even noticed the party existence yet.. you'd think the mob would go "hey, i'm on fire..!!" and move away. )

[irivan]

There is nothing wrong with Wall of fire at all.

The OP and his successing opposer's of the spell should not be complaining about the damage, and instead be encouraging the developers to improve monster AI where needed.

However to that point, most humanoid monsters would rightfully be afraid of fire, even on the end of a stick, no one likes getting burned. Monsters that use rage, like trolls, orcs, and others villains, or mindless undead would run right into their own burning deaths.

Maybe if you approached it from that point they might consider it. Remember though, that would mean casters could fully protect the party by putting fires at known door ways, gaps, etc...

When i DM i make monsters who want to cross a fire wall make a moral roll with a high penalty, unless they are raging, highly resistant to fire or immune to fire.

Until all of that happens.

/definitely Not signed :(

[Samiusbot]

This is why WoF should be removed from the game

Because this caster has decided to kill mobs too? And if his party doesn't help him kill mobs, he is not going to use his only limited resource to help the unlimited hand to hand party members.

Is there a problem with wanting to slay a monster? I think that is why you are asking to remove wall of fire. Because you are not slaying monsters?

[Vivanto]

Ya guys notice something wrong in here?

The op is basically complaining that a caster can do a quest for him while he dosen't need to do anything at all! Hell, I'm always glad when having a caster like this in group, just step in a quest and pileon for FREE XP AND LOOT while I can go watch the tv or have dinner! :p

[Letrii]

Force Wall of Fire

[dharq]

This is why WoF should be removed from the game

This basically sounds like a case of screw the team, OP wants a higher kill counter.

Simple solution OP. Go buff yourself, heal yourself, kill all the mobs yourself... And stop asking your team to contribute--afterall, you want all the glory.

Just think of the story that would make...

[Delt]

+1 rep to the OP for the successful troll

[Lerincho]

OP

were you one of the ones that was in favor of the last major change to Wall of Fire? you know where consecutive walls placed together the damage would not add on top of each other?

tell me how that made any sense. if you have a fire, and you add more fuel to the fire, does it not get hotter?

[KoboldKiller]

I think they should remove PK and FOD. I mean seriously I am tired of charging towards a MOB and seeing these fancy affects kill it before I even make a swing. The other night in Let Sleeping Dust Lie I had 2 kills and the casters had all the others. this just sucks. Same goes for Destruction and Slay Living. Clerics should be about giving life not taking it.


:rolleyes:

[Lerincho]

I think they should remove PK and FOD. I mean seriously I am tired of charging towards a MOB and seeing these fancy affects kill it before I even make a swing. The other night in Let Sleeping Dust Lie I had 2 kills and the casters had all the others. this just sucks. Same goes for Destruction and Slay Living. Clerics should be about giving life not taking it.


:rolleyes:

I told you that last time was an accident!

[Hendrik]

I don't know of a single wizard/sorc without Wall of Fire. However, if you only accept Bards and Clerics as casters in the mid-range, I think you'll find your LFM being ignored as many of us will notice the lack of caster in the group and LFM.

I do think this is a good idea, though. Any additional information that tells people what to expect about the party leader's expectation is always welcome.

I am one.

Should hear people when I tell them I am a Necromancer and cannot carry* Wall of Fire.

*Self imposed limitation in attempt to stay true to School Specialization.

[MagicianBlade]

True. But if that's true, then it's also true that mobs should avoid big glowing disco balls, grease patches, sleet storms, fogs, big moving fields of ghostly blades, sickly green rays of death, high-level clerics, and most melee characters. I mean, why charge in on a stumpy 4ft armored dwarf with a big shield and a sharp axe? Doesn't sound very intelligent. Why not just shoot them from range and get somewhere they can't climb in that 100 lb suit of armor.

It'd be much cooler, imo, if they'd give us wall of stone and wall of ice, so we could create choke points and force mobs to feed through the gauntlet of melee slaughter in single file..

Regardless, the game is what it is. Why not just play it and enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it, find something you do enjoy.

Disco should absolutely affect any mob within it's area of effect, when it is cast, but then it should stop affecting any new creatures. It doesn't -actually- create a disco ball that causes everyone to dance, that's just the game effect showing the effect of the spell. All of the other spells that you mention are pretty much one shot - mobs typically don't run into grease patches, the grease is laid down around them. Exception being Blade Barrier, which doesn't work at all like it should, which sucks.

Actually, speaking of single file monster killing, it looks like the Quickfoots only attack you one at a time these days - i felt like I was in a Kung Fu movie when I was running quickfoot quests the other day in Solo.

[MagicianBlade]

OP

were you one of the ones that was in favor of the last major change to Wall of Fire? you know where consecutive walls placed together the damage would not add on top of each other?

tell me how that made any sense. if you have a fire, and you add more fuel to the fire, does it not get hotter?

Actually, being magical fire, it does make perfect sense - there is no fuel.

[LoneRath]

If WoF and casters are so OP, why do shroud raid groups tend to only take one caster, 2 clerics, and the rest melee? Why does a Vision raid usually on bring 1 caster, 2-3 clerics and the rest melee?

Sorry, but this thread is like the cries about bow Rangers being OP at low levels because they have huge range and can seemingly one shot or solo anything. That works for about 3-4 levels and then dies quickly.

Just as WoF is very powerful for about 6-8 levels and then dies off quickly.

If you really think WoF is bad...you are going to cry like a little boy that had a toy taken away when you see Wail. I can solo entire explorable areas with a tenth of the effort that WoF takes.

For all that we casters can solo certain areas/quests, when it comes to end game or raids most of the time we are not so powerful. We add something to the mix, but most of the time we are regulated to buffing and CC. Our damage just doesn't match up to 8 or 9 melee PCs beating on something. One or two WoF proc'ing once a second versus 8-9 melee PCs swinging 7-10x per attack round. No contest.

[Hendrik]

Right, but this isn’t D&D either. This is DDO and there will always be some small exceptions to the rules to balance the game so more people can enjoy the game. Maximize and Empower should work the same way Combat Expertise and Power Attack does, you can have only one active.


Funny how people seem to pull out the DDO vs D&D card when they want to use it if they think it is advantageous and yet dismiss it if it is not used in their favor.

Again, you may wish to re-familiarize yourself with DDO and D&D rules before continuing to post.

[Hendrik]

Having the ability to buy unlimited amounts of mana pot’s from the ddo store is what scares me… WoF should be adjusted, or removed from the game.

By this 'logic' weapons should be adjusted/removed from the game because Fighter types can buy unlimited Cure pots.

Not thinking this through very well are we?

[KoboldKiller]

I told you that last time was an accident!


LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You always wait until I start to swing and then *POOF* it's dead and I get zero kills. :( :D

For that matter I want ALL offensive spells removed from the game. casters should do nothing but buff and heal, period. Melees should be the only class allowed to kill anything.

[bobbryan2]

Actually, being magical fire, it does make perfect sense - there is no fuel.

So... it makes logical sense that it's magic and doesn't follow logic.

Man... that's brain stretching. Using a philosophy to disprove a philosophy.

[Judo]

I think they should remove PK and FOD. I mean seriously I am tired of charging towards a MOB and seeing these fancy affects kill it before I even make a swing. The other night in Let Sleeping Dust Lie I had 2 kills and the casters had all the others. this just sucks. Same goes for Destruction and Slay Living. Clerics should be about giving life not taking it.


:rolleyes:


you saying a caster let you have 2 kills? sounds like a noob caster to me...

[KoboldKiller]

you saying a caster let you have 2 kills? sounds like a noob caster to me...

Well I started crying about how overpowered casters were so they gave me a couple kills. :)

:rolleyes:

[Yurtrus]

Please delete this thread.. the more I see it the more angry I get. This is the stupidest thread I have ever had the ill pleasure of reading.. I don't want to see any more of these idiots spewing about overkill spells when they have not even seen the later levels and how much those spells in question will help them out.

DELETE THIS THREAD.. IT IS UTTERLY WORTHLESS and BAD TASTE FOR ALL.. Don't give the devs any more nerfing ideas for the game...

[Galapas]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.

I assume you're about 7th level and fighting lots of undead. Maybe you're doing the Shadow Tombs around now. In those quests WoF is a necessity, and the arcane casters should dominate the kill count.

If you fight things at higher level, or fight things which can be vorpaled, paralyzed, stat damaged, back stabbed, etc, arcane casters don't look so powerful. I duo with a ranger, and even on undead heavy quests, I get only about 40% of the kills, unless they're mostly incorporeal. When we did quests or runs through Ataraxia's haven, I pretty much just cast haste and repair. My kill count wass essentially zero.

My rogue easily outkills arcanes against anything that can be backstabbed - not just a little, but by a factor of three sometimes. ( I run with a good intimitank; the combo of intimitank and wall of fire means I never have aggro, so every attack is a sneak attack.)

If you take away wall of fire, arcane casters have very little capacity to do damage. I remember how excited I was when I got fireball. I tried using it in the Tangleroot series. It was a complete waste of power. I didn't budge their healthbars, but they did all get very mad at me. Without the persistant spells, arcanes really only do damage with maximized, empowered spells against targets that are vulnerable to the element.

[Nonan]

I did enjoy reading the responses and laughing at them.

Wall of Fire should be over powered, its a wall of fire. Things should burn, die, get crispied into little black balls of charcoal. Its kind of what it was intended to do.

The facts are this, WoF has been nerfed for a good year, year and a half now. If you dont like it, have fun doing
Giant Hold and The Vale Stuff with level apporporiate, non-twinked toons, you will then post how the game is overpowered and what can we do to make it more fair.

[Creeper]

I did enjoy reading the responses and laughing at them.

Wall of Fire should be over powered, its a wall of fire. Things should burn, die, get crispied into little black balls of charcoal. Its kind of what it was intended to do.

The facts are this, WoF has been nerfed for a good year, year and a half now. If you dont like it, have fun doing
Giant Hold and The Vale Stuff with level apporporiate, non-twinked toons, you will then post how the game is overpowered and what can we do to make it more fair.

They should give mobs fire extinguishers! That way, while they are trying to put out my wall of fire, I can casually hit them in the rear with chain lightining!!!

[Oreg]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

Maybe 50% of the quests from level 6-9. I can deal with that.

[Phidius]

Just a bunch of melee types upset because they cannot kill everything in sight. God forbid those that get a kill in the game other than melee types. If they nerf Wall of Fire, they need to nerf melee down to as little dmg as possible

I remember a while back I had a 9 wiz/2 rog drow that went into VON5, used all his SP to buff the party, then proceeded to lead the kill count.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em :D

[KoboldKiller]

Heck for that matter let's do away with all weapons and armor and run around just punching things.

[Phidius]

Heck for that matter let's do away with all weapons and armor and run around just punching things.

Sorry, I just never got into monk as more than a splash :D

[adm5893]

I stopped reading on the fourth page...

Wall of Fire overpowered? Nerf it? You have got be joking, correct?

There are specific party roles in game. I like my casters who kill things en masse. AND if the caster wants to mix it up in melee? So be it. One less mob I have to kill and it keeps my armor untarnished or dented.

I mean seriously, do you know how much a good set of Dragon Touched Full Plate/Levik's Shield goes for in the Auction House and how much it takes to maintain?

[ArkoHighStar]

I stopped reading on the fourth page...

Wall of Fire overpowered? Nerf it? You have got be joking, correct?

There are specific party roles in game. I like my casters who kill things en masse. AND if the caster wants to mix it up in melee? So be it. One less mob I have to kill and it keeps my armor untarnished or dented.

I mean seriously, do you know how much a good set of Dragon Touched Full Plate/Levik's Shield goes for in the Auction House and how much it takes to maintain?

umm DT armor and leviks goes for zero on the AH since they are bound items:D BUt we get the picture

[adm5893]

umm DT armor and leviks goes for zero on the AH since they are bound items:D BUt we get the picture

Oh, I forgot...

/sarcasm on

[Lerincho]

why is this thread still existing?

[adm5893]

why is this thread still existing?

/sarcasm off

Because it is so interesting... and for some it was the first time they may have read it...

[Sohryu]

why is this thread still existing?

Because it's good for a laugh and it's bumped my rep by about 100 points? :D

[ChaelaAnne]

Because it's good for a laugh and it's bumped my rep by about 100 points? :D

LOL!! Good enough.

But this thread makes me want to kick kittens :(

[Vivanto]

LOL!! Good enough.

But this thread makes me want to kick kittens :(

Don't do it, it is enough already that every time the devs nerf something, God kills a kitten... they're almost extinct now with the combat changes.

Don't kill more kitten!

[Kahuna68]

Seriously, maybe you think firewalls are ok because you are a caster who does ridiculous ******** amounts of damage, but if you tank like me I can’t even get to the monsters because they die instantly as soon as they hit the fire. In some quests I don’t even bother swinging because I never get a chance to get to the monsters in time or before they die because of this spell. I suggest removing the spell completely from the game to balance combat.


Why are you so upset about who gets the kills? :confused: There are no rewards for individual kill counts. The entire group benefits from a larger kill total. So if the caster can take down more mobs, in a faster way, both you and everyone in your group will gain more experience. It doesn't really matter who killed what, as long as the job got done.

As you gain levels, you'll find that the extra 15% experience for Conquest can often add up to pretty large chunk of experience. You will also find that many mobs will stroll through that WoF as if it were a foot warmer, so your melee guy will need to be there to grab the aggro and kill those critters.

You lose nothing (unless you like to brag about your individual kill count) and gain quite a bit for having a caster with WoF in your group.

Oh, and no, I don't run a caster. I do however, love them squishy little burners! :D

[Kahuna68]

Heck for that matter let's do away with all weapons and armor and run around just punching things.

No, No, No. Punching is too aggressive. I think some nice waves and salutes and the DDO world would be the perfect, happy-shiny place. :rolleyes:

[ddoer]

Here is the tactic used for about 50% of the quests in the game… run to the door, fighters are ordered to shield block, and the caster casts a wall of fire on us. Then all the monsters are dragged into the fire and poof! All dead. I mean I get grief from party leaders for just shield bashing while they cook. What kind of fun is that? Next time I’m ordered to just stand and shield block, I may accidently lower my shield for a second and let a troll creep through to take a one shot off on the caster.

before I create a thread to ask for removing vorpal weapons, you melees should stop using them. Next time you are using vorpal, I may accidentally click on the grease spell, and so I will have enough time to energy drain and FoD the devils.

This thread is fun. keep going, don't remove it. :D

[Phidius]

Why are you so upset about who gets the kills? :confused: There are no rewards for individual kill counts. The entire group benefits from a larger kill total. So if the caster can take down more mobs, in a faster way, both you and everyone in your group will gain more experience. It doesn't really matter who killed what, as long as the job got done.

As you gain levels, you'll find that the extra 15% experience for Conquest can often add up to pretty large chunk of experience. You will also find that many mobs will stroll through that WoF as if it were a foot warmer, so your melee guy will need to be there to grab the aggro and kill those critters.

You lose nothing (unless you like to brag about your individual kill count) and gain quite a bit for having a caster with WoF in your group.

Oh, and no, I don't run a caster. I do however, love them squishy little burners! :D

Hammer, meet nail. There's a knot in that wood, so you'll have to put a bit of muscle into it. Don't despair, it'll go in eventually.

[Graedyn_Jaxx]

before I create a thread to ask for removing vorpal weapons, you melees should stop using them. Next time you are using vorpal, I may accidentally click on the grease spell, and so I will have enough time to energy drain and FoD the devils.

This thread is fun. keep going, don't remove it. :D

I ran with a party the other day, who during a fight in one of the necropolis dungeons, did the lay down the wall of fire/firewall and proceeded to run the mobs through it. Only problem was that we were all taking massive amounts of damage. Wasnt till only a few mobs were left that we realized it wasn't our firewall. AI broken, how 'bout ours?

[Phidius]

before I create a thread to ask for removing vorpal weapons, you melees should stop using them. Next time you are using vorpal, I may accidentally click on the grease spell, and so I will have enough time to energy drain and FoD the devils.

This thread is fun. keep going, don't remove it. :D

Wait until the mobs find out they can get a Minos Legens helm from the Orchard.

Anyone agree that weilding a rapier is exploiting by taking advantage of the fact that the mobs are too stupid to go get a Heavy Fort item?

[adamkatt]

Remove Mani from the game.. Best nerf i can think of.. Of maybe just call it a hotfix...

[ninjaeli]

why would you want to p*ss of all casters in this game?
and why would you want to make this game harder? why do you want more nerfs?
and why does it matter who gets the kills as long as you finish quest fast and smoothly thats all i think will matter