D&D players vs MMOG gamers?

[Mr_Ed7]

Is it possible that some of the disagreement I see on the forums as far as playstyle and character builds go, are the result of fundamental differences between two distinct player bases, the original D&D players vs. the former WoW & game gamers?

Or do the lines between the two different genres just blend together amongst the players and there really are not two distinct camps on game-play?

[NinetyNineTails]

Min/maxing is an activity that existed long before MMORPGs. It was originally created, in fact, to describe people playing... D&D powergamers.

Personally, I think the divisions between powergamers and... whatever one calls the other side are greatly exaggerated by people who like to argue. There are very few people who are totally indifferent to aesthetics when creating characters, and there are very few people who are totally indifferent to their character's performance in statistical terms.

[Femanon]

Is it possible that some of the disagreement I see on the forums as far as playstyle and character builds go, are the result of fundamental differences between two distinct player bases, the original D&D players vs. the former WoW & game gamers?

Or do the lines between the two different genres just blend together amongst the players and there really are not two distinct camps on game-play?
No, theres an obvious rift, and its fairly obvious because most WoW players care little about anything but grinding, and Most D&D players are sadly disappointed with the level of depth in the quests and the lack of major story lines.

[timberhick]

Is it possible that some of the disagreement I see on the forums as far as playstyle and character builds go, are the result of fundamental differences between two distinct player bases, the original D&D players vs. the former WoW & game gamers?

Or do the lines between the two different genres just blend together amongst the players and there really are not two distinct camps on game-play?

The lines are blurred somewhat.
3e, 3.5e made "the build" the only importance. When the designers even said that 3e was all about system mastery you know it wont end well. Character/personality/story was shunted into the background(if even there), feat selection, class, race, spells, weapon selection, etc. became all important.

I've never been a fan of seeing the same build. What fun is there when you see a group of wizards hanging out and the only difference amongst them is the spelling of the names. Firelord, Fyrelord, Phirelord, Phyrelord, Yeah that's just fun. :rollseyes:

[AnderlornLOTR]

Shouldn't this be retitled as v3.5e\Pathfinder players vs 4e players?

;)

[timberhick]

Shouldn't this be retitled as v3.5e\Pukefinder players vs 4e players?

;)

Why?

Far more people are 'original D&D players' that act like 'the former WoW & game gamers' the Op was talking about than 4e players who are 'the former WoW & game gamers'. According to you, right?

[Arianrhod]

There's certainly a divide between the "play to win" group and the "play to have fun" group, but I don't think computers vs. tabletop has all that much to do with it. Different people just look for different things in their games. Now, it may very well be that most of the "play to win" group lost patience with the tabletop versions of the game long ago, and so are more strongly associated with the computer games, but there are plenty of MMO gamers who like to plod along and admire the scenery...most of them just aren't all that active on forums ;)

[Furluge]

Shouldn't this be retitled as v3.5e\Pathfinder players vs 4e players?

;)

No more Grognard Gin(TM) for you. ;)

[sunkenfaith]

One thing's for sure though; the General community here on DDO are much, much more friendlier than WoW.

[Mr_Ed7]

No, theres an obvious rift, and its fairly obvious because most WoW players care little about anything but grinding, and Most D&D players are sadly disappointed with the level of depth in the quests and the lack of major story lines.

I tend to agree.

[Mr_Ed7]

The lines are blurred somewhat.
3e, 3.5e made "the build" the only importance. When the designers even said that 3e was all about system mastery you know it wont end well. Character/personality/story was shunted into the background(if even there), feat selection, class, race, spells, weapon selection, etc. became all important.

I've never been a fan of seeing the same build. What fun is there when you see a group of wizards hanging out and the only difference amongst them is the spelling of the names. Firelord, Fyrelord, Phirelord, Phyrelord, Yeah that's just fun. :rollseyes:

Funny because its true!

[NinetyNineTails]

One thing's for sure though; the General community here on DDO are much, much more friendlier than WoW.

I'm pretty sure that's purely a function of absolute population. See also; John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory (google it).

Also, if this thread is better titled 3.5e v 4e, then it's even better titled 2nd ed v 3rd ed. 3rd ed players are pansies. 2nd ed the is real D&D.

And if it's better titled 2nd ed v 3rd ed, then I'll take this opportunity to say that 2nd ed bards are weak, wan reflections of the glory that was the 1st ed bard.

[Graypaws]

No, theres an obvious rift, and its fairly obvious because most WoW players care little about anything but grinding, and Most D&D players are sadly disappointed with the level of depth in the quests and the lack of major story lines.


The grind fest in WoW has been lessened alot because the playerbase HATED it, only the elitist cry about its loss. I think the big difference between pnp players and mmo players comes relates to imagination. That and the ability to trully make your character yours, things like how you look (height, weight, hair color, race, and so on), clothing you wear, storylines tailored to YOUR character. MMOs make it abundantly clear that you do not own anything but the right to USE their material, including your character.

[SquelchHU]

Is it possible that some of the disagreement I see on the forums as far as playstyle and character builds go, are the result of fundamental differences between two distinct player bases, the original D&D players vs. the former WoW & game gamers?

Or do the lines between the two different genres just blend together amongst the players and there really are not two distinct camps on game-play?

I was playing D&D before I was playing MMORPGs. Fact is, they're different things.

In D&D, or any other tabletop game there are mechanics and then there is the fluff of the world. Therefore, it is possible to roleplay and optimize which many of the best players do.

In DDO, or any other MMORPG/CRPG the first exists, but the second does not. You could try to roleplay anyways, but you are doing so in spite of the game, and there is no more roleplay in these games than there is in your favorite FPS, or action game, or anything else. If you actually think about the roleplay in a CRPG you realize just how immersion breaking it is to say... save an entire section of the world from some Marilith queen every 66 hours, while many others are doing exactly the same thing. Or even just rescuing Arlos from some mean kobolds over and over. Or to use a non DDO example: How many times have you saved Sanctuary? How many times do you think it's been saved over the years?

As a result it doesn't matter if people are capable of roleplaying or not, they're going to take one look at a CRPG, say 'wrong medium, wrong place, wrong time' and just not do it there.

[Uska]

I'm pretty sure that's purely a function of absolute population. See also; John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory (google it).

Also, if this thread is better titled 3.5e v 4e, then it's even better titled 2nd ed v 3rd ed. 3rd ed players are pansies. 2nd ed the is real D&D.

And if it's better titled 2nd ed v 3rd ed, then I'll take this opportunity to say that 2nd ed bards are weak, wan reflections of the glory that was the 1st ed bard.

nah 1st ed is the real dnd as you said where bards were bards monks were cool and we had assasins

[Bardicwolf]

It is sad that DDO does not inherently include roleplaying. Otherwise we will see chat bubbles above everyones forehead. Sure the quests tell a good story, and the locations are awesome, but.. it still lacks the pnp feel.

I found that NWN did better for that. Even in NWN, you can customize your armor, but that isn't an MMO.
As far as MMO goes, I think the system of DnD is more familiar to me, and so I will play it here on DDO. Fondly.



But, I will never give up pnp, even using a different system like GURPS!

[ChaosInc]

We play pnp all the time. In fact, when our group finished a story, we hold a vote on the next system we want to play (D&D, WoD, etc., currently playing Exalted). I'm rather fond of playing D&D, but our group seems to stray away from it due to bad experiences from previous gaming groups they've been part of.

DDO provides a nice feel for the game, even if I can't roleplay my character. The world and atmosphere is still there, and that's enough for me.