Anyone have a good reason here?

[Impaqt]

WHy is the cooldown on Implosion so high when Arcanes get Whail of the banshee which is on a standard cooldown?

Seems to me they effect the same mobs.

Subect to the same SR

I dont get it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

WHy is the cooldown on Implosion so high when Arcanes get Whail of the banshee which is on a standard cooldown?

Seems to me they effect the same mobs.

Subect to the same SR

I dont get it.

I agree, it should have the standard cooldown... or it should at least bypass SR as indicated in the spell description

[hydra_ex]

or it should at least bypass SR as indicated in the spell description

Apparently its considered cast on you, and then spreading out to enemies...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Apparently its considered cast on you, and then spreading out to enemies...

and if thats how they want to treat it, then as Impaqt indicated it should be treated the same as Wail for cooldown

[rimble]

And why are Clerics now the 'nukers'? Thanks Blade Barrier...:(

[Impaqt]

and if thats how they want to treat it, then as Impaqt indicated it should be treated the same as Wail for cooldown



I'd be happy if it was just reduced to something reasonable like 15 seconds... 50-60 seconds on a cooldown cripples the spell... Even 30 Would be better...

I also Fail to see why Extend doesnt work with it... If 8 Soconds is standard, why cant I extend to 16?

As cool as the spell is, It should be better. Its a shame that turbine felt they needed to handicap clerics (And FvS) Level 9 Spells.

[Visty]

well, its more pwoerful then vail as you cast it and then it kills mobs for 8 secs while vail only kills those in front of you
and it goes through doors while vale doesnt

ofc the cooldown should be lowered but then it would be too powerful

[Draclaud]

And why are Clerics now the 'nukers'? Thanks Blade Barrier...:(

Why Not? There are going to be times when the only one standing is the cleric, do you want him to be able to save a party wipe by killing the last few guys or not?

[Impaqt]

well, its more pwoerful then vail as you cast it and then it kills mobs for 8 secs while vail only kills those in front of you
and it goes through doors while vale doesnt

ofc the cooldown should be lowered but then it would be too powerful

So its too powerful because of a bug that lets it work through doors?

It should not be able to work though walls as you need to "Concetrate" on your target. Kinda imposible to do if you dont know whats actually behind the door.

[Visty]

So its too powerful because of a bug that lets it work through doors?

It should not be able to work though walls as you need to "Concetrate" on your target. Kinda imposible to do if you dont know whats actually behind the door.

some doors have windows :P
and if you have to concentrate, then you should be able to do nothing for those 8 secs and still you can
you can walk around and kill even more mobs after the first bunch is dead
so need to cast less then with vail

[Angelus_dead]

Terminology: mage = wiz/sorc, priest = cleric/fvs


WHy is the cooldown on Implosion so high when Arcanes get Whail of the banshee which is on a standard cooldown?
Because they're "Arcanes" and you're not.

Seriously, that's the reason: So that wizards and sorcerers can keep their edge in offensive casting over clerics and favs. As you might have heard, a lot of mage players are having trouble being useful in the new content (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198156&highlight=casters+useless). If you disagree and want the devs to change it, you'd have to supply a reason as to how gameplay would improve if priests had drastically improved instakilling that is better than what mages can do.


Seems to me they effect the same mobs.
No, Implosion effects many more kinds of mobs.

[Impaqt]

some doors have windows :P
and if you have to concentrate, then you should be able to do nothing for those 8 secs and still you can
you can walk around and kill even more mobs after the first bunch is dead
so need to cast less then with vail

I'd much rather see them fix the spell.

Cast spell, If you attack or cast another spell while "Concetrating" on your implosion, it expires.

[Visty]

I'd much rather see them fix the spell.

Cast spell, If you attack or cast another spell while "Concetrating" on your implosion, it expires.

and thus making clerics useless for 8secs which means killing that spell :)

[Impaqt]

Terminology: mage = wiz/sorc, priest = cleric/fvs


Because they're "Arcanes" and you're not.

Seriously, that's the reason: So that wizards and sorcerers can keep their edge in offensive casting over clerics and favs. As you might have heard, a lot of mage players are having trouble being useful in the new content (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198156&highlight=casters+useless). If you disagree and want the devs to change it, you'd have to supply a reason as to how gameplay would improve if priests had drastically improved instakilling that is better than what mages can do.

Destruction and FoD have the same cast/cooldown time. Why wasnt destructions timer artifically increased?




No, Implosion effects many more kinds of mobs.

[Impaqt]

and thus making clerics useless for 8secs which means killing that spell :)

If your group cant survive for 8 seconds without a heal then they are in real bad shape.

[Visty]

If your group cant survive for 8 seconds without a heal then they are in real bad shape.

if your group cant clear that room themself in 8 seconds then they are in real bad shape.

if it takes 8 secs and you can do nothing else, it IS killing the spell

[Angelus_dead]

Destruction and FoD have the same cast/cooldown time. Why wasnt destructions timer artifically increased?
1. Because by the time Clerics get Destruction, Wizards have already had Phantasmal Killer for 4 levels.
2. Because once Clerics have Destruction, Wizards have PK + FOD, giving them twice the attack rate of instakill spells.
3. Because the D&D version of Implosion has a significant penalty to killing speed which would not be represented if the cooldown was short.

In D&D, Wail of the Banshee allows a Wizard to kill up to 20 creatures with a single action, while Implosion allows a Cleric to kill up to 4 enemies with 4 actions. To use up your actions for four entire rounds is a tremendous cost considering that a high-level fight won't last much longer than that.


PS. In D&D, it's actually better to use Weird than Wail, if your gameplay is "as intended".

[adamkatt]

some doors have windows :P
and if you have to concentrate, then you should be able to do nothing for those 8 secs and still you can
you can walk around and kill even more mobs after the first bunch is dead
so need to cast less then with vail

Even cloud kill dosent work through gates anymore...

[Vormaerin]

A_D is right. Just like the clerical direct damage spells generally do about half that of mages, Implosion is deliberately weaker than equivalent arcane spells. Destruction is one of the few cases where the arcane and divine offensive capability are comparable.

Offensive caster is simply not intended to be a primary role for clerics. In D&D, you should always want an arcane caster in that role. Clerics have superior weapon skill, superior armor, better hp, and better saves than mages. I gather they heal a bit better, too. The only thing they don't do as well or better than an arcane is blow things up.

[redoubt]

So its too powerful because of a bug that lets it work through doors?

It should not be able to work though walls as you need to "Concetrate" on your target. Kinda imposible to do if you dont know whats actually behind the door.

Actually:

You create a distructive resonance field around you, causing nearby corporeal enemies to collapse in upon themselves, killing them instantly.

It doesn't sound like you concentrate on the mobs at all. You creat a field that kills anything that enters it. Makes sense to me that it should go through doors and such.

Or at least any doors that are not super think. Kind of like cloud spells should go through gates but don't anymore. (Its fine if they say the big round rolling doors "seal" and stop my acid fog, but a gate with bars should let it pass through.)

Anyway, how long does wail last? If implosion is not significantly longer, then the cool down should drop closer to that of wail.

[uhgungawa]

Terminology: mage = wiz/sorc, priest = cleric/fvs


Because they're "Arcanes" and you're not.

Seriously, that's the reason: So that wizards and sorcerers can keep their edge in offensive casting over clerics and favs. As you might have heard, a lot of mage players are having trouble being useful in the new content (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198156&highlight=casters+useless). If you disagree and want the devs to change it, you'd have to supply a reason as to how gameplay would improve if priests had drastically improved instakilling that is better than what mages can do.


No, Implosion effects many more kinds of mobs.

Only the one trick pony casters with 150 HP are gimped in the new content, but they gimped themselves to start :rolleyes:

[Monkey_Archer]

I mean no offence, but have you even tried both spells yet?

Wail is a one time shot... each mob around gets 1 save or dies...
Implosion is an aura... each mob must make a save every 2 seconds or dies...

This effectivly makes imposion equivalent to spamming 4 wails in a row...

[likuei]

If your group cant survive for 8 seconds without a heal then they are in real bad shape.

Well I guess we are in trouble then ... min/maxxers and paper tanks and glass cannon are the norm now, more than ever ... since DPS is king in the new content ... and with that, comes being a nannybot all over again.

Why cant the above just get over it. We do not want to play for your enjoyment. Leave the spell as is, stop complaining about it so people take a look at it and want to 'fix' it.

[likuei]

A_D is right. Just like the clerical direct damage spells generally do about half that of mages, Implosion is deliberately weaker than equivalent arcane spells. Destruction is one of the few cases where the arcane and divine offensive capability are comparable

Offensive caster is simply not intended to be a primary role for clerics. In D&D, you should always want an arcane caster in that role. Clerics have superior weapon skill, superior armor, better hp, and better saves than mages. I gather they heal a bit better, too. The only thing they don't do as well or better than an arcane is blow things up.

Even in PnP, there Clerics have MORE spells that emulate arcane spells, thereby giving them the option of being offensive casters. DDO cannot implement quite a few of those spells specifically because they are attached to PrE's (didnt you know PnP clerics can have Wall of Fire?). And DDO does something that PnP does not ..... it links meta way more than intended in PnP, which leads to you 'deliberately weaker' ... Clerics will have to decided how to use their feats, caster, healer, utility or Divine Melee.

[Vormaerin]

Certain domains give access to some arcane style spells. Clerics do have offensive spells. They are not, however, intended to be the equal of arcane casters in offense. Not that firewall is a particularly good spell in games where the DM controls mobs intelligently. The fact that they come close is one of the major imbalances of the 3rd edition rules. Didn't the joke on the optimization forums used to be "What's the most overpowered class combination?: Cleric 20."

Implosion in p&p is not comparable to Wail or Wierd. It shouldn't be. They don't need it to be.

[Mockduck]

I've been using Implosion a TON on both Lammania and Live and think it's just fine. Yeah, the cooldown's a minute, but it's still plenty worthwhile, and great because you can cast it, then run into a mob or whatever. Gives you a few seconds of prep time.