Mass Heal is even worse than I thought....

[Impaqt]

Seriously.. Only heals 6 people to boot? Decided to try it in a shroud against my better judgement... Watched 2 people Die in part 4 because even though I cast my Mass Heal With Plenty of time, They didnt get healed....


Tested it in a Tavern surrounded by people and it never hit more than 6 of em around me....

What a Crock.....

Slow Cast, and Limited number of people hit?

Dropped for a Hezarou..

Come one Devs... Whats the point of this spell really?

Mass Heal should be the most powerful healing spell in the game, Instead, Its a joke and not worth a spellslot even on a Pure Cleric who can have EVERY level 9 spell Active.

[sirgog]

Seriously.. Only heals 6 people to boot? Decided to try it in a shroud against my better judgement... Watched 2 people Die in part 4 because even though I cast my Mass Heal With Plenty of time, They didnt get healed....


Tested it in a Tavern surrounded by people and it never hit more than 6 of em around me....

What a Crock.....

Slow Cast, and Limited number of people hit?

Dropped for a Hezarou..

Come one Devs... Whats the point of this spell really?

Mass Heal should be the most powerful healing spell in the game, Instead, Its a joke and not worth a spellslot even on a Pure Cleric who can have EVERY level 9 spell Active.



In non-raid situations, as long as you quicken it, it's excellent.

A pack of six devils jumps the party, hitting different members. You immediately start casting quickened Mass Heal, by the time it is cast the party needs it, and you've spent only 60 SP for over a thousand HP recovered (if all players are seriously damaged) or 500-800 if there's a large amount of overhealing.

Since Numot hit 18 and got Mass Heal, I haven't swapped it out and am not even considering doing so. Having Mass Heal has saved me enough SP that instead of having to use scrolls or even mana pots in quests, I seldom do now.

[Twerpp]

maximized mass cures ftw!

[Impaqt]

In non-raid situations, as long as you quicken it, it's excellent.

A pack of six devils jumps the party, hitting different members. You immediately start casting quickened Mass Heal, by the time it is cast the party needs it, and you've spent only 60 SP for over a thousand HP recovered (if all players are seriously damaged) or 500-800 if there's a large amount of overhealing.

Since Numot hit 18 and got Mass Heal, I haven't swapped it out and am not even considering doing so. Having Mass Heal has saved me enough SP that instead of having to use scrolls or even mana pots in quests, I seldom do now.

WIth Near 2000 Spell points at l18 Using Heal mass insted of a Mass Cure mod is a train wreck waiting to happen....

It wont go back ontomy hotbar until its fixed.

Even quicked its stupid Slow and limiting the number of people it hits is even stupider. Why bother with a Cure mass spell if its useless in a raid?

[cm2_supernova]

That and with Superior Devotion VIII MCSW hits just about as hard as an unmodified mass heal

[Mudcnd]

Maybe for non raid quests?

[Xyfiel]

Amongst such crowd favorites as Deep Slumber, Scare, Undeath to Death, etc, where would you list Heal Mass? Would you say a grease clicky would do better for the raid group then waiting on it?

[zavozod]

Why would mass heal have a slower cast time?
I gave up on the spell because of that.

But to only hit 6 party members?
Junk spell? Or is it busted aTm?

[Mockduck]

I'm glad that Mass Heal sucks, it allows my cleric to take and use other level 9 spells like Summon and Implosion (and Energy Drain). It also means that parties aren't demanding in angry tones that I use mass heal on them. :)

[FluffyCalico]

Mass heal has no place on my bar right now either. I think it would be an ok level 5 spell lol. But as a level 9 it sucks.

[bobbryan2]

Anyone who says mass heal is currently ok has some MIGHTY fine rose-tinted glasses.

[BonesProthero]

I dropped mass heal for Implosion on my cleric...omg that spell is fun... :D

[Enochroot]

Anyone who says mass heal is currently ok has some MIGHTY fine rose-tinted glasses.


it's a fine line between making it better and making it far too uber. Already clerics/FvS are insane end-game, imo.


personally I would change it -

- mass heal - all nearby friendly players - but maybe limit number of enemies it hits? (is this the reason for the limit? does it hit enemies? I can't test right now)

- reduce cast time
- change animation - so lame to use that animation
- increase cooldown duration


But as it is, it's not as bad as I thought it would be, and it's nice in questing with a tight group of guildies. So yeah, definitely think it should be better but careful not to be overpowered.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Mass heal is garbage. sorry Turbine. Casting speed NEEDS to be divided by 2 to even get a 2nd look from me.

[krud]

it's a fine line between making it better and making it far too uber. Already clerics/FvS are insane end-game, imo.


personally I would change it -

- mass heal - all nearby friendly players - but maybe limit number of enemies it hits? (is this the reason for the limit? does it hit enemies? I can't test right now)

- reduce cast time
- change animation - so lame to use that animation
- increase cooldown duration


But as it is, it's not as bad as I thought it would be, and it's nice in questing with a tight group of guildies. So yeah, definitely think it should be better but careful not to be overpowered.
/agreed

but i suspect many here complaining would like to see it become the overpowered spell they imagined it would be.

[Angelus_dead]

Anyone who says mass heal is currently ok has some MIGHTY fine rose-tinted glasses.
If you look at it from the perspective of hp/sp efficiency, it's great. We can't deny that 6*380 = 2280 hp for 50 sp is excellent. That's 45 hp/sp, compared to 8 hp/sp for Heal.

But as you've seen, efficiency isn't always so important if it is overwhelmed by other weaknesses. Mass Heal is slow, which to a game designer is the obvious and natural tradeoff for an efficiency ability. You typically want the player to face a choice between efficiency and throughput. But that is not how D&D was built- in that game, all heal spells cost the same time, and healing isn't a major activity during combat. So it would take extra work to change it for DDO.

Notice that DDO heros tend to have way lower hp numbers than you see in other games. That means there's a tendency towards being able to refill someone's hp very quickly, which also means that you can't afford to cast a slow efficient heal spell, because the chance of someone dying while you wait is too great.

Therefore, Mass Heal is only good when there is absolutely no time pressure to perform the healing: after a fight is over and before you move to the next one. But it turns out that's not very important either, because Heal scrolls are quite affordable compared to the income of a level 20 character. So whenever you have the luxury of time you can just peel off a few Heal scrolls, and keep the mana for later.

It'll be tough for the devs to get Mass Heal into a proper niche, where it's a powerful spell but not the only cure you ever need to cast. At first they erred on the side of caution; let's hope they'll keep tweaking it.

[Maegin]

If you look at it from the perspective of hp/sp efficiency, it's great. We can't deny that 6*380 = 2280 hp for 50 sp is excellent. That's 45 hp/sp, compared to 8 hp/sp for Heal.

But as you've seen, efficiency isn't always so important if it is overwhelmed by other weaknesses. Mass Heal is slow, which to a game designer is the obvious and natural tradeoff for an efficiency ability. You typically want the player to face a choice between efficiency and throughput. But that is not how D&D was built- in that game, all heal spells cost the same time, and healing isn't a major activity during combat. So it would take extra work to change it for DDO.

Notice that DDO heros tend to have way lower hp numbers than you see in other games. That means there's a tendency towards being able to refill someone's hp very quickly, which also means that you can't afford to cast a slow efficient heal spell, because the chance of someone dying while you wait is too great.

Therefore, Mass Heal is only good when there is absolutely no time pressure to perform the healing: after a fight is over and before you move to the next one. But it turns out that's not very important either, because Heal scrolls are quite affordable compared to the income of a level 20 character. So whenever you have the luxury of time you can just peel off a few Heal scrolls, and keep the mana for later.

It'll be tough for the devs to get Mass Heal into a proper niche, where it's a powerful spell but not the only cure you ever need to cast. At first they erred on the side of caution; let's hope they'll keep tweaking it.

well said +1 /agree

[FluffyCalico]

It'll be tough for the devs to get Mass Heal into a proper niche, where it's a powerful spell but not the only cure you ever need to cast. At first they erred on the side of caution; let's hope they'll keep tweaking it.

1) Make the cast time the exact same as regular heal
2) Give it a big cool down say 30 seconds.
3) All fixed its now not the only thing used, not over powering, and is on the bar as a party saver, something that you keep in reserve for when you ass is getting kicked.

There that really wasn't that hard to come up with. :eek:

[sirgog]

1) Make the cast time the exact same as regular heal
2) Give it a big cool down say 30 seconds.
3) All fixed its now not the only thing used, not over powering, and is on the bar as a party saver, something that you keep in reserve for when you ass is getting kicked.

There that really wasn't that hard to come up with. :eek:

That would be better than the present version.

That said, the present version does have its merits - max-empped mass cure spells drain mana very fast, whereas you can cast Quickened Mass Heal (almost) all day long. Just don't start casting it if you are worried that enemies will kill someone before the spell resolves.

Plus, Mass Heal has the added (admittedly small) bonus of curing ability damage, poisons, diseases, and random other debuffs like Fatigue that aren't touched by the max-empped mass cures.

I've noticed a very significant drop in consumable use since I started heavily using this spell in 6-player quests, with little increase in player deaths.

[Extispex]

It's a great spell to have when you're on dog duty in the hound raid.
Other than that, I haven't found any good uses for it.

[UnderwearModel]

Ridiculously slow.

[Kolbathinbeta]

I disagree I love the spell, and two clerics chaining mass heal in shroud for exampel is pretty easy mode, Yes I admit that 6 max person is a bit bothering as you miss one or two, but a regular heal on them works fine as well. Also with quicken on the cast speed is fine.

Also my two cents in, I dont understand why Turbine sees fit to nerf mass heal and implosion, arent it in their best interest to have those two powerfull spells as they are to promote more clerics/FvS to play, seems to me a game based on hack and slash could only profit from lots of healers around...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's a great spell to have when you're on dog duty in the hound raid.
Other than that, I haven't found any good uses for it.

why? mass cure mod is plenty to top them up, anything more is overheal

[Impaqt]

I disagree I love the spell, and two clerics chaining mass heal in shroud for exampel is pretty easy mode, Yes I admit that 6 max person is a bit bothering as you miss one or two, but a regular heal on them works fine as well. Also with quicken on the cast speed is fine.

Also my two cents in, I dont understand why Turbine sees fit to nerf mass heal and implosion, arent it in their best interest to have those two powerfull spells as they are to promote more clerics/FvS to play, seems to me a game based on hack and slash could only profit from lots of healers around...

A Mass Heal + a Regular Heal is more MUCH more time and More Spell points to boot than a Maximized Cure Mod or cure Serious Max.. So where is the benefit again?

[404error]

Mass Heal being slow is intended but healing 6 people is not.

[Extispex]

why? mass cure mod is plenty to top them up, anything more is overheal

It heals a lot more. You don't have to cast it as often, making it more efficient.

[Strakeln]

Mass Heal being slow is intended but healing 6 people is not.

/cheer

/cheer2

This is good news for me, assuming it means that they'll be changing it.

[Kolbathinbeta]

A Mass Heal + a Regular Heal is more MUCH more time and More Spell points to boot than a Maximized Cure Mod or cure Serious Max.. So where is the benefit again?


Benifit: Alot more hps healed.

[Kolbathinbeta]

mass Heal Being Slow Is Intended But Healing 6 People Is Not.

/cheer!

[quintuss]

Mass Heal being slow is intended but healing 6 people is not.

Well, the fact that the casttime is intended just moves it out of the realm of error into the realm of mistake.

When do clerics want to heal a lot of groupmembers for a lot of healthpoints? -> When all are low on hp!

That means you dont have time to dance around, do your secret handshake n stuff.
You need to get the healing out fast!
I wouldn't mind if it had a long cooldown because it would only be for emergencys but it's useless as it is now.

[Elsbet]

Seriously.. Only heals 6 people to boot? Decided to try it in a shroud against my better judgement... Watched 2 people Die in part 4 because even though I cast my Mass Heal With Plenty of time, They didnt get healed....


Tested it in a Tavern surrounded by people and it never hit more than 6 of em around me....

What a Crock.....

Slow Cast, and Limited number of people hit?

Dropped for a Hezarou..

Come one Devs... Whats the point of this spell really?

Mass Heal should be the most powerful healing spell in the game, Instead, Its a joke and not worth a spellslot even on a Pure Cleric who can have EVERY level 9 spell Active.

QFT

Mass heal is a waste of spell points and is amajor time suck. Since I took every critical multiplier enhancement possible, my mass cures are more than enough to do the job and cast in 1/4 the time of a mass heal AND hit everyone in range. That is far more effective than hitting half the people taking four times as long, even in between fights. That pitiful excuse for a spell won't be wasting space on my hotbar.

If I'm going to spend that much time casting, mobs better be going *clank squish die* in my blade barriers.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It heals a lot more. You don't have to cast it as often, making it more efficient.

But its not more efficient. When I'm healing the doggies the mass cures generally fill them up and I don't hit them until they are at 25%. It wouldn't be safe to let them go much below that. Mass heals would just waste healing by overhealing.

[Elsbet]

But its not more efficient. When I'm healing the doggies the mass cures generally fill them up and I don't hit them until they are at 25%. It wouldn't be safe to let them go much below that. Mass heals would just waste healing by overhealing.

Exactly. Why cast something that will heal for 400+ HP (well over 1,000 on a crit) when a cure mass mod or cure mass serious will do? I don't get change back when I hit a squishy as hell rogue with 240 HP with an 1,100 HP heal. Even the most HP intensive tank in the game doesn't need an 1,100 heal. (I do tend to leave empower healing on because I forget to turn it off. I'm experimenting with it.)

It's a waste of mana, especially since the only way to make it reasonable to cast is to quicken it. How often do you get tanks to stand still for the length of time it takes to cast mass heal if they aren't looting a chest? They're like ADD children on a sugar rush. They can't stand still.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's a waste of mana, especially since the only way to make it reasonable to cast is to quicken it. How often do you bet tanks to stand still for the length of time it takes to cast mass heal if they aren't looting a chest? They're like ADD children on a sugar rush. They can't stand still.

If only clerics could cast "slow" on the party

[quintuss]

How often do you bet tanks to stand still for the length of time it takes to cast mass heal if they aren't looting a chest? They're like ADD children on a sugar rush. They can't stand still.

+1 Rep :D

[Kolbathinbeta]

Regular mass heals without quicken 2 seconds, mass heal with quicken 2 seconds.

This spell aint ever leaving my hotbar.

[Elsbet]

If only clerics could cast "slow" on the party

I want the "group up" spell. Nothing is more annoying than having to cast a mass buff twice because some numbnuts ran off before you were done buffing the group. Boy do some of the runners get ****y when I say "no" to a second mass buff just for them. ;)

[Impaqt]

Regular mass heals without quicken 2 seconds, mass heal with quicken 2 seconds.

This spell aint ever leaving my hotbar.



I Think your TImer is off.

From Clicking the icon to seeing the Green Numbers.

unquickened Mass Cure Light avg 1.4sec
Quickened Mass Heal 2.9sec

Unquickend Mass Heal 5.4 Seconds

[Murgatroyd]

It's a waste of mana, especially since the only way to make it reasonable to cast is to quicken it. How often do you get tanks to stand still for the length of time it takes to cast mass heal if they aren't looting a chest? They're like ADD children on a sugar rush. They can't stand still.

Tanks will stop if you say "Haste on me" :D

Since I hit 18 I now carry it, but it's only used to heal in between fights. I will say "Lazy heal on me". Those that don't group up can die...

[Elsbet]

Without quicken, mass heal casts the same as blade barrier--a 5-6 second cast. With quicken, it is about 3-4. When compared with the instant casting time of a cure spell, mass heal is worthless in any situation other than standing still around a chest at the end of a quest.

[bobbryan2]

And this isn't even addressing another overriding bad game design, which is that there are no potency items for high level spells... so they tend to be much less efficient than they're supposed to be.

You have to grind a set of three items for polar ray to really be as good as it should be. I don't even know how you would go about modifying mass heal.

[Elsbet]

To my knowledge, there is no item available to improve the potency of level 9 cleric spells.

[Murgatroyd]

But but the new stuff gives you a Superior Ardor VIII clickie... :rolleyes:

[Elsbet]

Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Woohoo. [/underwhelmed cheer]

[bobbryan2]

But but the new stuff gives you a Superior Ardor VIII clickie... :rolleyes:

Yeah... hooray... I can finally modify 10 month old spells 9 minutes between rests.

It's not bad game design for casters to have good items to have to grind for. But the way they did it IS bad game design. It means it's almost never worthwhile to take direct damage spells at high levels, because they're less efficient (and sometimes just inferior) to lower level damage spells.

Non-damaging spells, however, gain their full benefit regardless of grinding. So everyone is loving wail and energy drain and summon hezrou... but I don't hear anybody extolling the virtues of meteor swarm.

And that's assuming that there were even potency IX items to grind for! Which... there aren't. There's not even superior potency VII that I've been able to find, let alone any VIII stuff.

Just bad game design. They shoulda just added Greater or Superior Potency IX to the raid list and called it a day. But no... they have something else in mind I guess.

[SimVerg]

Actually, Wail and ED both suffer from a lack of Spell Pen 9 items. Generally, this is not as large of an efficiency hit as the absence of potency is to direct damage spells, but it still requires that they be a great deal better than their lower level counterparts to be worthwhile(the real problem is that the majority of high lvl damage spells aren't much better in comparison to slightly lower level equivalents; meteor swarm vs DBF is the most prominent example. The only reason polar ray sees use is that there is no lower level no-save ice damage spell).

[Extispex]

But its not more efficient. When I'm healing the doggies the mass cures generally fill them up and I don't hit them until they are at 25%. It wouldn't be safe to let them go much below that. Mass heals would just waste healing by overhealing.

Well, personally I spend less spell points using mass heal than using mass cures.
It may not be more efficient for you, but it is for me.

[Kolbathinbeta]

Without quicken, mass heal casts the same as blade barrier--a 5-6 second cast. With quicken, it is about 3-4. When compared with the instant casting time of a cure spell, mass heal is worthless in any situation other than standing still around a chest at the end of a quest.

I disagree I have been using Mass Heal to great effect in all the new content + old content and the raids.

For example when you me and Val three manned Sins yesterday :)

[Elsbet]

I disagree I have been using Mass Heal to great effect in all the new content + old content and the raids.

For example when you me and Val three manned Sins yesterday :)

Okay, you did use it well, but in combat situations, it is worthless. Instant cast wins everytime over a 3+ second cast.

[Kolbathinbeta]

Okay, you did use it well, but in combat situations, it is worthless. Instant cast wins everytime over a 3+ second cast.

Starting to feel like a broken record now, but I disagree :)

Espcialy in combat situations is where it shines, nothing beats seeing 8 devils beat on the party and all taking alot of damage and then boom, all back up to full.

But to each his own, I like it alot, you dont. Point of OP was to say how bad it was and it wasent even worth a spell slot for a cleric/FvS. And there seems to exist a contrary opinion to OP thoughts about the spell.

Good to see a lively discussion going about the divine spells again, was along time since I last saw talk about mana efficiancy vs cast time in regards to number of subjects affected ect ect. Good times :)

[smatt]

Yep, it's pretty worthless... Good MAYBE after a big fight while nothign else is going on.. Otherwise Meh.... It's found it's place on bar #20, right next to symbol of death, along with the 40 other completely worthless spells....

[Kolbathinbeta]

That would be better than the present version.

That said, the present version does have its merits - max-empped mass cure spells drain mana very fast, whereas you can cast Quickened Mass Heal (almost) all day long. Just don't start casting it if you are worried that enemies will kill someone before the spell resolves.

Plus, Mass Heal has the added (admittedly small) bonus of curing ability damage, poisons, diseases, and random other debuffs like Fatigue that aren't touched by the max-empped mass cures.

I've noticed a very significant drop in consumable use since I started heavily using this spell in 6-player quests, with little increase in player deaths.

I agree. And if ya worried about people dying think ahead a second or two and that aint a problem either.

*Me* Ok big pull coming up, people going to get damaged, and as soon as all are starting to take damage I cast Mass heal, so when they are down to 20%-30% hp they get back up to full.

Real game exampel: Portals in New bastion, you know all the melees will get alot of damage when they are beating on the portals and the devils are beating on them.

[Impaqt]

Starting to feel like a broken record now, but I disagree :)

Espcialy in combat situations is where it shines, nothing beats seeing 8 devils beat on the party and all taking alot of damage and then boom, all back up to full.

But to each his own, I like it alot, you dont. Point of OP was to say how bad it was and it wasent even worth a spell slot for a cleric/FvS. And there seems to exist a contrary opinion to OP thoughts about the spell.

Good to see a lively discussion going about the divine spells again, was along time since I last saw talk about mana efficiancy vs cast time in regards to number of subjects affected ect ect. Good times :)

I'm glad you like it. It may indeed work well for you. But for the Powergaming/Raiding Crowd,it doesnt cut it. Its Woefully underpowered for the level of the spell.

[Kolbathinbeta]

I'm glad you like it. It may indeed work well for you. But for the Powergaming/Raiding Crowd,it doesnt cut it. Its Woefully underpowered for the level of the spell.

Well I consider myself a pure powergamer, and I raid alot, not as much as I want being an European on US servers but I make do, and I find it awesome in raids, but I agree with you a bit there, the 6 max subject limit of the spell is a disadvantage in raids which you currently have to work around, but happily it aint intended and hopefully fixed soon making it even more overpowered.

[Impaqt]

Well I consider myself a pure powergamer, and I raid alot, not as much as I want being an European on US servers but I make do, and I find it awesome in raids, but I agree with you a bit there, the 6 max subject limit of the spell is a disadvantage in raids which you currently have to work around, but happily it aint intended and hopefully fixed soon making it even more overpowered.

Whos your Main and WHat server are you on? Just curious as a Powergamer Endorsing this spell would be a good thing.

[Kolbathinbeta]

Character: Fellwar.
Server: Argo.

[Varr]

I mentioned to my buddy shamgar a year ago I hoped they would not implement mass heal.......because either they let it break the game or cripple the spell. Two clerics in a raid beating down one boss critter......with a full blown mass heal 1.4 per cast no real refresh timer.....total castrates the big bads.

The spells hasssssss to be broken so the game isn't.

[Kolbathinbeta]

I Think your TImer is off.

From Clicking the icon to seeing the Green Numbers.

unquickened Mass Cure Light avg 1.4sec
Quickened Mass Heal 2.9sec

Unquickend Mass Heal 5.4 Seconds

Well this is probably true, I was using the old *1001,1002...* method :)

But if people are going from full health to death in 2,9 seconds, something is wrong and it aint the spell ;)

[Impaqt]

Well this is probably true, I was using the old *1001,1002...* method :)

But if people are going from full health to death in 2,9 seconds, something is wrong and it aint the spell ;)

If you've never seen anyone go from Alive to dead in 2.9 Seconds,your not a power gamer

[Kolbathinbeta]

If you've never seen anyone go from Alive to dead in 2.9 Seconds,your not a power gamer

*Yawn* So we going into personal attacks now?

If you had learn to read in school you would have read that I said: if somebody is going from full health to death in 2,9 seconds something is wrong and it aint the spell.

[Arkat]

Houston, we have a problem.

[Elsbet]

The other unspoken assumption with mass heal is that everyone needs to be brought to full health right then and that just isn't the case. I've run with over-raged dwarven barbarians with every conceivable HP enhancement/item/buff who still have 300 HP at half health. A full heal might top them off, but it is wasted on the average character. I know a mass cure mod or mass cure serious will be more than sufficient to keep 5 of 6 players alive and will just be bonus to the overraged barbarian. He can wait until all is done to get topped off.

Your squishier classes don't require full blown heals unless you're also healing stat damage or disease/poison. I was actually told by a rogue in a group this past weekend not to throw a heal at him again after I hit him with a crit heal. I believe his exact words were, "Ana darlin, don't ever do that again. If I were at 10 hp, that's still five times the healing I need."

There's no point in expending the extra mana for a mass heal when a mass cure mod will do. Often, there's no point in expending the mana for a mass cure whatever when one cure spell will do.

[Kolbathinbeta]

The other unspoken assumption with mass heal is that everyone needs to be brought to full health right then and that just isn't the case. I've run with over-raged dwarven barbarians with every conceivable HP enhancement/item/buff who still have 300 HP at half health. A full heal might top them off, but it is wasted on the average character. I know a mass cure mod or mass cure serious will be more than sufficient to keep 5 of 6 players alive and will just be bonus to the overraged barbarian. He can wait until all is done to get topped off.

Your squishier classes don't require full blown heals unless you're also healing stat damage or disease/poison. I was actually told by a rogue in a group this past weekend not to throw a heal at him again after I hit him with a crit heal. I believe his exact words were, "Ana darlin, don't ever do that again. If I were at 10 hp, that's still five times the healing I need."

There's no point in expending the extra mana for a mass heal when a mass cure mod will do. Often, there's no point in expending the mana for a mass cure whatever when one cure spell will do.

On this I agree, but for me personaly I dont find 100-150 mass heals sufficent, of course I would be using Mass moderate and light if that was sufficent for the job, but since I dont, I use mass heal instead. And I dont rely on crit heals, its a bonus but it aint baseline healing.

But Els, you agree that mass heal is not worthless, only that you for the moment havent had a use for such a large mass heal?

Now we are starting to get somewhere with the OPs orginal post ;)

[MysticTheurge]

I too am highly disappointed in this spell.

It goes in the Flamestrike bin.

[krud]

Battle clerics rejoice! No more "But you'll never get mass heal if you muticlass that deep!" No one will think you're gimp because you don't have it. No need to hit the minimum 17 levels of cleric anymore. Makes my 16clr/2mnk/2ftr I once planned seem like a not so bad idea.

[RACRGUY]

Mass heal may not be useless, but IMO it is the least useful 9th lvl divine spell.

[Impaqt]

*Yawn* So we going into personal attacks now?

I wouldnt consider teling someone they arent really a Powergamer a Personal Attackat all.



If you had learn to read in school

However,THAT is....



you would have read that I said: if somebody is going from full health to death in 2,9 seconds something is wrong and it aint the spell.

Like what? Can you control when a Party gets jumped by 6 Orthons? Or When arritrikos thros a Crit DBF or Meteor Swarm? WHen that Uber Evasive ranger Rolls a 1?

Its not just about Going from Full to Dead in 3 seconds. How often do people back out of harms way when getting low on health? Often. and in that three seconds they can get well out of range of a Mass Heal where a Cure Mass Mod would of kept them comfortable with their health bar.

[Elsbet]

On this I agree, but for me personaly I dont find 100-150 mass heals sufficent, of course I would be using Mass moderate and light if that was sufficent for the job, but since I dont, I use mass heal instead. And I dont rely on crit heals, its a bonus but it aint baseline healing.

But Els, you agree that mass heal is not worthless, only that you for the moment havent had a use for such a large mass heal?

Now we are starting to get somewhere with the OPs orginal post ;)

I have not had a need for mass heal at all. I put it on my hot bar, cast it in the tavern, saw what it did and took it straight back off. I have not used it or missed it at all in game play. You've worked it into your play style so that it works. In my play style, it a total waste of time and mana.

My non-crit heals hit for 300+ a pop (400+ with empower). My cure *whatever* scale accordingly. I simply don't hit heal all that often anymore. I rarely cast greater than cure mass mod unless I'm spam healing in the shroud or hound. I simply don't need to use more than that.

On a whim one day, I respecced Ana to be a healing monster and she is. I took every conceivable feat and enhancement to her healing skills. I've gotten used to running her that way and it works. I haven't counted to be sure, but I'd guess that one in three-four heals/cures is a crit. I do some insta-kill and am having a blast with implosion, but she rocks the heals and I'm leaving her that way. (Yes, I am a bit vain. ;) )

Islabet is a bit more balanced as far as cleric casting goes, but even she doesn't need much more than Ana does. Mostly she has slightly fewer SP (maybe 15?), and might have one less critical multiplier enhancement. Despite that, even she doesn't need it and I've run her through VoD as a level 14 with no mana pots and less than 12 cure mass mod scrolls and oopsie, I forgot to go shopping, 15 heal scrolls. No problems, no deaths, and had scrolls left over though I can tell Airebourne still glares at me through the computer when I mention it. I didn't tell him beforehand. ;)

For me, mass heal is as useless as a rr warforged vicious dwarven axe.

[Ranmaru2]

I think the devs missed the point that Lvl 9 spells are actually supposed to be supremely powerful spells. While I agree with long casting times for them, I don't agree with seeing that mass heal hits 6 people being intentional. This, next to a miracle of a God (Or what appear to be God(s) in Ebberon), should be the most powerful heal available to anyone and everyone. Casting this is like being able to heal an entire town of 100 people. But 6 people? What?

Also slap Meteor Swarm in the same category as Mass Heal (aka trash bin). Ummmm 100 fire and 30 bludgeon? Big friggin deal I get relatively the same damage from Ice Storm, and that'll save me 25 spell points per cast (and the cold actually hits stuff, unlike the fire immune mobs we're fighting now). Hey devs how about a Damage Over Time cold or lightning spell? Or how about Lower Resist or something else to allow casters and clerics to contribute.

I have yet to get a cleric to lvl 9 spells, but I've seen a friend trying to cast mass heal to heal a party and watching 1 drop dead before it goes off and the other two barely being affected by it just made me not want to set it once my battle cleric gets to lvl 19.

[smatt]

I too am highly disappointed in this spell.

It goes in the Flamestrike bin.


HEY, flamestrike opens the doors in the Titan :D

[Ranmaru2]

HEY, flamestrike opens the doors in the Titan :D

AND lights the torches in Inferno!!! :p

[Thrudh]

Battle clerics rejoice! No more "But you'll never get mass heal if you muticlass that deep!" No one will think you're gimp because you don't have it. No need to hit the minimum 17 levels of cleric anymore. Makes my 16clr/2mnk/2ftr I once planned seem like a not so bad idea.

Good point...

[SimVerg]

Battle clerics rejoice! No more "But you'll never get mass heal if you muticlass that deep!" No one will think you're gimp because you don't have it. No need to hit the minimum 17 levels of cleric anymore. Makes my 16clr/2mnk/2ftr I once planned seem like a not so bad idea.

No, you're *definitely* going to be missing the third tier of warpriest when it comes out in six months.