Secret elite scaling?

[parvo]

As far as I know the official word on scaling is that it elite does not scale. However, in my soloing, I suspect it does. I'm not getting hit for elite type damage. Strongest evidence I have is an encounter with named Trog shaman in Sunken sewer. He let loose nine magic missiles and every one did two points of damage. The chances of that happening (without loaded dice) are something like 4 in 100,000.

Do you think there is secret elite scaling? Why?

[Borror0]

Why not test? Isolate a mob in that quest when alone and a second time in a full group.

Note the difference in DPS and then draw a conclusion.

[sirdanile]

I shall eagerly await these test results... but it might work AGAINST you in raids if it works for you on elite, i'm looking at you, shroud pugs!

[parvo]

Why not test? Isolate a mob in that quest when alone and a second time in a full group.

Note the difference in DPS and then draw a conclusion.

I would hope, others could confirm or deny. Perhaps it's a bug or another unconfirmed change. I solo and group enough elite quests that I'll have my own conclusion soon enough. I know in a group of four of us on elite in Rest for the Restless, one character was hit for 87-pt fire trap. Went from full health to dead.

[Qzipoun]

Either that or a lot of quests were simply made a lot easier.

Been running around soloing elite quests and some of them are way too easy... [the depths quest with the wraiths was easier on elite than it was on normal before the mod....]

[Borror0]

I know in a group of four of us on elite in Rest for the Restless, one character was hit for 87-pt fire trap.
Ouch. That must not feel too good.

[Grond]

I was soloing a quest on normal and had a magic missile hit me for 5. Without a bigger sample size, it's hard to tell. Side note, in a PnP game last week the caster in the group threw a MM and rolled 5 ones... we teased him mercilessly. :D

[parvo]

A full group of us (mostly seasoned PD vets) ran Irestone on elite. It was absolutely brutal, and that's coming from a guy who likes brutal. No doubt elite is being scaled. One guy got hit with scorching rays for > 60 points damage. I got hit by a worg for 67. The only way we survived the quest without deaths was near perfect play, virtue+aid and keeping everyone completely topped off.

I like brutal, but Turbine has done exactly what they shouldn't have. They made every difficulty easier to complete solo (maybe duo) than larger groups. This should be hotfixed ASAP.

[parvo]

I just went back into Irestone elite solo with a dead character. (The character that earlier got hit for 67 by a Worg, later died in another quest). The worgs were hitting for less than 10. Dinks crit me for 20.

Turbine is scaling elite.

[ariel7]

Why not test? Isolate a mob in that quest when alone and a second time in a full group.

Note the difference in DPS and then draw a conclusion.

Wow, I'm agreeing with Borror0. ;) One must test their conclusions.

That said, you must gather significant amounts of data first. The more data in your analysis the sounder it becomes. AA is a 80%+ pre-flop favorite over KK in Texas Hold 'Em. If you play 10 hands in a row where Kings win each time, that's certainly possible, but unlikely.

I mention the above because someone took a level 17 intimitank into a lowbie quest on Elite and allegedly was hacked to death, and they came up with all sorts of numbers of AC that prevented this, and specific DR numbers and so on. Their research (had a buddy with him) was shoddy since they didn't get enough relevant data to make more definitive (and accurate) statements. This caused a lot of drama over grazing hits that for me, isn't really as HUGE of an issue as it was made out to be. I think you have to be willing to go in a MINIMUM of ten repetitions on your scenarios and have a similar amount in what you are comparing it to.

I think a lot of conclusions are being drawn incorrectly because of lazy fact-gathering and shoddy analysis. If it's worth making the statement, it's worth making sure it is accurate.

NOTE: The above paragraphs refer to no one in particular and is representative of my world-view, not a poke at anyone in particular.

[FluffyCalico]

I have done 4 of the new quests on elite

Sins
Gensis
Weapons shipment
Wraith

On all 4 elite was alittle bit harder but not by much. The main difference is hp so if you are using vorpals you might not even notice it. And the trap dc in sins might be higher, but our monkey didn't fail a save so I can't tell you.

[Vivanto]

but it might work AGAINST you in raids if it works for you on elite

Supposedly, there is no dungeon scaling in raids.... but then there is no scaling on elite quests either :rolleyes:

[parvo]

Wow, I'm agreeing with Borror0. ;) One must test their conclusions.

That said, you must gather significant amounts of data first. The more data in your analysis the sounder it becomes. AA is a 80%+ pre-flop favorite over KK in Texas Hold 'Em. If you play 10 hands in a row where Kings win each time, that's certainly possible, but unlikely.

I mention the above because someone took a level 17 intimitank into a lowbie quest on Elite and allegedly was hacked to death, and they came up with all sorts of numbers of AC that prevented this, and specific DR numbers and so on. Their research (had a buddy with him) was shoddy since they didn't get enough relevant data to make more definitive (and accurate) statements. This caused a lot of drama over grazing hits that for me, isn't really as HUGE of an issue as it was made out to be. I think you have to be willing to go in a MINIMUM of ten repetitions on your scenarios and have a similar amount in what you are comparing it to.

I think a lot of conclusions are being drawn incorrectly because of lazy fact-gathering and shoddy analysis. If it's worth making the statement, it's worth making sure it is accurate.

NOTE: The above paragraphs refer to no one in particular and is representative of my world-view, not a poke at anyone in particular.

Of course you are right. I'm a believer in stats and I could do a test that is statistically sound. Perhaps I will, but I'm not sure it will make much difference. Either Turb cares or they don't and methinks more likely the latter. Besides I've already paid Turb so I could do beta testing for them this month :o

[UnderwearModel]

That is my opinion.

[Blood]

For years people have been complaining that the game is getting too easy. Now they make it harder, and the same people complain. You see any trend here?

[spifflove]

For years people have been complaining that the game is getting too easy. Now they make it harder, and the same people complain. You see any trend here?

Harder isnt the problem its the scaling.

Anything that discourages group play is bad. Having groups limited to 4 players to prevent the scaling bug is bad.

Plz hotfix.

[parvo]

For years people have been complaining that the game is getting too easy. Now they make it harder, and the same people complain. You see any trend here?

I'm not complaining about hard. I like brutality. However, it is not good for the game to be easy solo and brutal for groups in the same quest on the same difficulty setting and getting the same XP and same loot. That formula discourages teamwork.

Go back and read my post without you're parvo-hate colored glasses on.

[parvo]

Elite scaling is no longer a secret:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=2398423#post2398423

Why is elite being scaled? We were told normal needed to be scaled because some players found the game hard to solo. I assume hard is being scaled for the same reason? But why elite? Scaling elite doesn't make any sense.