On a fvS is GTHF needed

[RavenStormclaw]

Ok so I am building a warforged FvS gonna be pure and using THF and greatsword. for max Dr I took admantine body. However I am running into a feat problem. I see no way to have admantine body, all three of the THF feats, PA, IC:slash, maximie, quicken and extend.

That's 9 feats for seven slots. Even switching out IC:slash for a meta once a Tier III greensteel is made leaves me short.

So is GTHF really needed or does anyone see a way out of this mess I missed.

Thanks.

[Drfirewater79]

if your gonna go thf i would suggest taking only what you need from THF unless you dont want to do spell damage at all

if you want to do spell damage and beable to fight take max emp extend and then toughness and then take Three of the most important feats that will help you hit your target more often ....

remember FVS do not have the same bab as a fighter nore do they have as many swings per round.

Figure out your focus and if you dont want to do crazy blade barriers and what not then drop maximise and keep empower this way you can still do 100+ damage with blades and can focus your feats to help you melee better. but in the end you will wish you had evasion i think.

[Mercules]

Don't take Extend.

Seriously. It doesn't help much with level 1 buffs to save SPs, doesn't help much with level 2 buffs, and when you start getting higher the duration of most spells is high enough that it won't matter that much.

Hmmm... or maybe Maximize. How many attack spells are you planning on casting? Blade Barrier? The low Wisdom on WF will make spells that save less effective so I assume GW weilding FvS are going to be focusing on buffs and some healing, especially considering the lack of spell slots. Am I wrong?

[aurus33]

Unless you really want to stay pure on the class, you can get two feats taking 2 fighter levels, monk would be a great option, but none of the feats you want are on the monk feat list :(

IMO, I'd with 18 FavS levels and get evasion from monk, still the searing light at will sounds nice :)

[EinarMal]

Don't take Extend.

Seriously. It doesn't help much with level 1 buffs to save SPs, doesn't help much with level 2 buffs, and when you start getting higher the duration of most spells is high enough that it won't matter that much.

Hmmm... or maybe Maximize. How many attack spells are you planning on casting? Blade Barrier? The low Wisdom on WF will make spells that save less effective so I assume GW weilding FvS are going to be focusing on buffs and some healing, especially considering the lack of spell slots. Am I wrong?

You can actually still do both melee and spell casting pretty well with a Warforged since Dex can be dumped as well as Con :eek:. It helps to take 2 levels of Monk. Warforged can do fine with DC casting -1 isn't the end of the world.

You can dump stat Con (or at least don't need nearly as much as a cleric) since FVS get toughness enhancements as do Warfoged, 102 hit points from toughness is a ton.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=196607

[EinarMal]

I agree extend is nice in early levels but is not needed. Of course adamantine body is not really needed either.

You can cast so many quickened heals (and use scrolls) I don't get the great concern for DR, just heal thyself.

[Mercules]

You can actually still do both melee and spell casting pretty well with a Warforged since Dex can be dumped as well as Con :eek:. It helps to take 2 levels of Monk. Warforged can do fine with DC casting -1 isn't the end of the world.

You can dump stat Con (or at least don't need nearly as much as a cleric) since FVS get toughness enhancements as do Warfoged, 102 hit points from toughness is a ton.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=196607

Hmmmm....

THF and no Dex means you AC is basically nothing. You are surviving on HPS alone. Dumping Con seems counter intuitive. Why would you dump Dex and then take 2 levels of Monk? Obviously the Monk is for Wisdom AC which you end up loosing by dumping Dex, and evasion which also takes a hit in Reflex save from dumping Dex.

Don't get me wrong I love versatile characters, I just still believe min/maxing minning some area you are trying to use is not always the wisest course.

[EinarMal]

Hmmmm....

THF and no Dex means you AC is basically nothing. You are surviving on HPS alone. Dumping Con seems counter intuitive. Why would you dump Dex and then take 2 levels of Monk? Obviously the Monk is for Wisdom AC which you end up loosing by dumping Dex, and evasion which also takes a hit in Reflex save from dumping Dex.

The whole Con thing is simple, if you can hit close to 500 hit points and have quickened heals why do you need any more?

Don't get me wrong I love versatile characters, I just still believe min/maxing minning some area you are trying to use is not always the wisest course.

That is actually not true, with the Monk wisdom bonus to AC you can easily hit upper 50's self buffed with 38 wisdom. The reflex save ends up fine without dex. I actually took monk for the 2 feats + evasion and probably won't bother with AC.

You have to remember that build is a caster first melee second, with very good saves, self healing and evasion (with solid reflex save). When Implosion or Blade Barrier is effective that is option 1, option 2 is Greatsword with GTHF and very good DPS (for a favored soul anyway).

I actually don't undertand melee only FVS builds like a level 20 Warforged. The DPS you gain by starting with 18 +5 strength is minor compared to the casting power you are giving up in a build that starts with 16 strength, 16 wisdom and puts level ups into wisdom.

[EinarMal]

To the OP I don't know what your build is, but if you are maxing strength you are giving up some damage from not taking GTHF (it is not the end of the world though). It isn't nearly as bad as not taking GTWF for example.

You are probably still better off taking 2 monk.

[Bosco]

If your casting divine favor a lot. Extend is real nice. Your going to need to make some tough choices. Even the addy dr if maxed in enhancements is 12 points. I personally will take extend, and empower healing. I kept my wis at 6 so I do not have any delusions of casting offense. Then also taking the force personality and skiping the extra dr entirely. With no addy or mith body. Its definitely a flexible build being wf and fvs.

[Goldeneye]

I would drop Extend and Adamantine Body.
Extend because the only thing you might be extending is Divine Power, everything else you can make due with.... yet your to-attack won't be an issue

Adamantine Body because I wouldn't worry about your AC, since you will easily heal yourself.

I would say that your Hitpoints is the important matter.

[Mercules]

That is actually not true, with the Monk wisdom bonus to AC you can easily hit upper 50's self buffed with 38 wisdom.

16 Wisdom +6 from item, +2 from tome, +6 from Greensteel +5 from level ups = 35. What am I missing? I don't "count on" +3 tomes so that might be 1 point.

[EinarMal]

If your casting divine favor a lot. Extend is real nice. Your going to need to make some tough choices. Even the addy dr if maxed in enhancements is 12 points. I personally will take extend, and empower healing. I kept my wis at 6 so I do not have any delusions of casting offense. Then also taking the force personality and skiping the extra dr entirely. With no addy or mith body. Its definitely a flexible build being wf and fvs.

They did change the duration to 30s +6s per level. So at level 20 that is going to last for 150s or 2.5 minutes. So, it really won't be needed at some point that is a pretty long time. It is a pain in the early levels, but once you get over a minute is not that painful.

[EinarMal]

16 Wisdom +6 from item, +2 from tome, +6 from Greensteel +5 from level ups = 35. What am I missing? I don't "count on" +3 tomes so that might be 1 point.

I am assuming you are eventually going to get +3 Exc. from the new raid item rings/DT armor/Greensteel. You can't actually get +6 from greensteel? You get +2 from the monk stance in caster mode as well. You get +2 from FVS enhancements as well.

That puts you at 36, the 38 is easily attainable through the wonderful DDO store and using your monthly tp on wisdom pots for the other +2.

I think people have a crazy misconception that Warforged can be Sorcerers or now FVS because they start with 6 charsima. So you end up with 38 vs. 40, or 36 vs. 38 depending on what gear etc....it really isn't a game breaker.

[RavenStormclaw]

Let me clarify a few things to help out (some great advice btw so far):

Admantine body and WF enhancements + the 10 dr at level 20 pure FvS gives a total Dr of 20....which is huge since if effectively eliminates all grazing hit damage and mitiagates a ton of other damage as well.

I intend to buff, heal and thow the occasional AOE type spell so DC is meaningless...I mean its not meaningless but save for 1/2 is better than no damage at all. Me thinks my only offense spells will be searing light (no save), comet fall, blade barrier and energy drain (another nice no save spell). This why in this build wisdom and charisma are sorta dump stats. Below is my breakdown

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 18
Intel 8
Wis 10
Chr 12

18 con is for the hitpoint as there is no way to fit tougness into this build (that i can see)
Must have feats (for this build in my opinion)
Adamantine body
THF
ITHF
PA
quicken
Extend (makes divine power last much longer and its the key to the build being good)


That leaves me one free slot for a choice of:
maximize
empower
IC: slashing
GTHF

Now mind you I am not adverse to taking a feat at lower level and then switching out later ie IC:slashing then trade out for someting when Tier III greensteel is made. Also I suppose extend can be swapped out once durations are long enough on their own. Anyone know if Divine power was changed to the new mechanic like divine favor was?

Now given that info what can we do.

[Mercules]

I am assuming you are eventually going to get +3 Exc. from the new raid item rings/DT armor/Greensteel. You can't actually get +6 from greensteel? You get +2 from the monk stance in caster mode as well. You get +2 from FVS enhancements as well.

That puts you at 36, the 38 is easily attainable through the wonderful DDO store and using your monthly tp on wisdom pots for the other +2.

I think people have a crazy misconception that Warforged can be Sorcerers or now FVS because they start with 6 charsima. So you end up with 38 vs. 40, or 36 vs. 38 depending on what gear etc....it really isn't a game breaker.

Right Greensteel is Enhancement and doesn't stack. So Raid items after a lot of runs. People are going to spend Turbine Points on +2 stat pots? Wow.

No, you can be a WF caster easily the issue is doing that and several other things stretches stat points thin. You get around it by Min/Maxing them and using hard to get gear to cover up those gaps.

[EinarMal]

Let me clarify a few things to help out (some great advice btw so far):

Admantine body and WF enhancements + the 10 dr at level 20 pure FvS gives a total Dr of 20....which is huge since if effectively eliminates all grazing hit damage and mitiagates a ton of other damage as well.

I intend to buff, heal and thow the occasional AOE type spell so DC is meaningless...I mean its not meaningless but save for 1/2 is better than no damage at all. Me thinks my only offense spells will be searing light (no save), comet fall, blade barrier and energy drain (another nice no save spell). This why in this build wisdom and charisma are sorta dump stats. Below is my breakdown

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 18
Intel 8
Wis 10
Chr 12

18 con is for the hitpoint as there is no way to fit tougness into this build (that i can see)
Must have feats (for this build in my opinion)
Adamantine body
THF
ITHF
PA
quicken
Extend (makes divine power last much longer and its the key to the build being good)


That leaves me one free slot for a choice of:
maximize
empower
IC: slashing
GTHF

Now mind you I am not adverse to taking a feat at lower level and then switching out later ie IC:slashing then trade out for someting when Tier III greensteel is made. Also I suppose extend can be swapped out once durations are long enough on their own. Anyone know if Divine power was changed to the new mechanic like divine favor was?

Now given that info what can we do.

Well just one comment for clarification first, you really aren't not going to get grazing hits right because you will have no AC? That means you are getting hit every time without the grazing part!

I still say you don't need extend, 2:30 of time is more than enough. If you are dead set on Extend I would take maximize, personally I would take maximize and GTHF and ditch extend. Seriously once you get used to re-casting it you will not miss it.

[RavenStormclaw]

Well just one comment for clarification first, you really aren't not going to get grazing hits right because you will have no AC? That means you are getting hit every time without the grazing part!

I still say you don't need extend, 2:30 of time is more than enough. If you are dead set on Extend I would take maximize, personally I would take maximize and GTHF and ditch extend. Seriously once you get used to re-casting it you will not miss it.

Good point... will have Ac in early levels but in late game its all about the simple DR period. I am beginning go agree about dropping extend as well.

[EinarMal]

Right Greensteel is Enhancement and doesn't stack. So Raid items after a lot of runs. People are going to spend Turbine Points on +2 stat pots? Wow.

No, you can be a WF caster easily the issue is doing that and several other things stretches stat points thin. You get around it by Min/Maxing them and using hard to get gear to cover up those gaps.

Not really a -1 to stat bonus and the build will work fine. So you end up with 480 hit points instead of ~520, 32 DC instead of 34 DC etc....

It's no different than any other build in that respect, it is actually better than a lot of TWF builds that REQUIRE a +3 tome to even take GTWF etc...

Every caster is going to striving for those things, that is just the nature of the game and Turbine builds content assuming you are going to grind for that stuff.

It is still easy to do melee + casting on a Warforged, a Warforged favored soul does not need high Con with toughness period. They also do not need Dex or Int.

That leaves only strength and wisdom, with a slight bump to charisma. It works without issue or any exotic gear requriements. FVS toughenss enhancements are equivalent to +4 Con, so that starting 10 is the same as a cleric with 14.

On a build without toughness that is 102 hit points or the equivalent of +10 Con.

[EinarMal]

Good point... will have Ac in early levels but in late game its all about the simple DR period. I am beginning go agree about dropping extend as well.

Yeah take it early and then just play with swapping it out once you get some levels in. I dropped it on my Warchanter Bard and it is not a big deal.

[EinarMal]

Admantine body and WF enhancements + the 10 dr at level 20 pure FvS gives a total Dr of 20....which is huge since if effectively eliminates all grazing hit damage and mitiagates a ton of other damage as well.



This doesn't seem right to me isn't the total DR 15?

Adamantine Body: +2 DR
Enahancements: +3 DR
Capstone: +10 DR

I have to say that a feat and 12 action points is a prettty hefty price for 5 more DR. Am I missing something in the calculation?

I think you have to skip the body feat and enhancements, and just go with the 10 DR capstone.

[Noctus]

Obviously the Monk is for Wisdom AC which you end up loosing by dumping Dex, and evasion which also takes a hit in Reflex save from dumping Dex.


Monk gives 2 bonus feats, from a list which includes, between others, Power Attack and Thoughness. 2 basic melee feats every dedicated melee would want to take. As well as Evasion. So thats enough reason to take 2 monk levels, even on characters who do not go for AC.

And the difference of 3 ref-save points (8DEX vs. 14 DEX) wont make or brake the Evasion-ness of your character.

[Shade]

I'd just get the first THF feat if any.

First one greatly increases the chances your glancing blows will land, and adds some chance to proc special effects. Without it, you'll hardly hit anything with glancing blows at all.

2nd one just very slightly increase there damage.. And more chance to proc - but something like a 1% chanec increase.

GTHF adds allot more, but the heavy feat costs makes it a poor choice for a caster class.
(adds a glancing blow to your first attack while moving, and your 4th attack while standing)