DR Fighter...basically worth it?

[FRIENDLYUNIT]

Hi
So, after a little trawl of threads about DR stacking people have made the comment that it might not actually be worth it.

I'll be going for a WF Fighter, and this time was thinking of going for the max DR possible, as I found the survivability pretty good - and also, I'm conscious of the fact that, as a WF I want to minimise the amount of healing I need.

Anyway, so is it basically worth going for DR? I havent decided if it will be sword and shield or greatsword yet but it will be pretty much pure fighter, with maybe a max splash of 1-2 levels.

[BlackSteel]

its a VERY heavy investment for what you would gain with just a 1 level rogue splash (UMD for stoneskin, or just make alot of clickies, or DT proc)

or what you would simply gain for free by being a barbarian.

[Beethoven]

Couple of things to keep in mind when going that route:

The only time it makes any sense at all is on an intimitank whose main purpose is to get aggro, hold aggro and shield block while everyone else finishes off the mobs with little risk to themselves. You also need to be able and cope with the fact that "kill count" will not really reflect the toons performance.

It also means you should have a reasonable AC (mid 60s) and get intimidate as high as possible. So, like Blacksteel already said, it is a -very- heavy investment, but hitting a high enough armor class should be possible, at least in Defender Stance and Intimidate is a class skill.

I disagree somewhat that rogue splash, DT proc or barbarian DR is the same. There are a couple of differences:

* Stoneskin: wands only get you 70 points, spell gets you max. 150 points. Particularly the former can collapse quick if the fighter jumps in and holds the aggro of, say, a gaggle of devils. Both can be dispelled. You may not be in a position to recast/rewand it easily since you need to stop blocking. The difference in DR between blocking and not is enormous especially when surrounded by hard-hitting mobs.

* Barbarian DR: barbarians have a far harder time to bring their AC to matter at all, whereas the fighter (with Defender Stance) should be able to hit mid 60s or higher, which means some mobs are going to miss at least some off the time. Also, a Warforged Fighter can boost is DR far beyond that of a Barbarian while shield blocking.

* Proc rates are simply not reliable, what's bad if the main purpose of the toon is to hold the aggro of large groups of mobs.

I am experimenting with a similar concept and from the moment I hit a perma-DR of 6+/blocking DR of 21 (at level 8) it is performing well. He can hold the aggro of the ogers out at Restless Isles (Titan pre-read), taking minimal damage while shield blocking. Of course, that's a far shot from end game and I'll see if he performs similarly well in Amrath.

To me, it's worth a try since enhancements and feats are the one thing you can actually respec and I always can switch him over to your usual dual-Kopesh wielding dps machine.

[Angelus_dead]

and also, I'm conscious of the fact that, as a WF I want to minimise the amount of healing I need.
That's not actually too important as a concern. A high level healing spell is very strong, and you'd have a few tiers of Healer Friend.


Anyway, so is it basically worth going for DR?
Nope not really. As others have mentioned, a barb would get that kind of DR without spending a lot of feats. It's fine to take Adamantine Body and then WF enhancements for 2-4 DR, but going more than that isn't helpful enough to justify the cost.

Note that I've seen General Horoth, the highest level boss, hit for about 145 damage. What's 10-12 DR look like compared to that?

[FRIENDLYUNIT]

Thanks to you all. Some good food for thought.

Will have to digest a bit (after I get over this flu and my brain resumes working).

Playing with the idea of a paladin now, so that will mean the feats will be that much more precious.

[FRIENDLYUNIT]

*slaps head*
So I just realised the fighter feats cant be used to buy the Warforged DR (right?).

I think I'll probably use my regular feats for DR, just for lulz. I'm not sure if it's up there as a super end level content type build but I've had fun being able to use DR (in combo with WF immunities) to simply worry less.

My dilemma now is: Are the fighter bonus feats worth it? I'm thinking about Paladin now, as they have cool stuff I can click on, plus lay on hands works on WF.

Thoughts?

[Urguwno]

No, the Fighter bonus feats cannot be used for the Improved Damage Resistance feat.

[xtchizobr]

i have to disagree with anyone who complains that 10 DR is useless against hits for 140s. 1/14th less damage -- it's still less damage than you would have taken, and you can compare this increment against other things. for example, superior devotion 6 (to simplify a comparison with healing since potency affects more than just heals) is very valuable as an upgrade over greater devotion 6 but is only an improvement of +10% more. or, say your AC is in the middle of his hit range. is +2 AC worth it? what would you give for even +1?

consider also how many times you get hit during the course of an encounter. over the course of dungeon...? multiply your DR by how many times you got hit. that's how much more "HP" you had. DR's effect diminishes proportional to your effective AC, but its value does not. furthermore, your DR is always on, independent of buffs which are what AC builds rely overwhelmingly on to get from barely effective to worthwhile.

besides, it's certainly possible to have some DR and plenty enough effective AC. you just find the sweet spot for you. part of the challenge is for the player to weigh options in order to make informed decisions about how he plans his character. extreme DR has its merits and strengths which aren't and do not have to be the same as high AC. don't go overboard throwing general feats for it, but some enhancements are so cheap and can save so much much SP.

most glaringly obvious: if you take less damage from trash, that's more SP the healer has for you when the boss fight starts.

all the sword people seem to want everything. they want to do all the damage in the group, and they want to be invincible too. you can make a perfectly good tank by sparing some slots for DR in your build. gods know that fighters have so many bonus feats for a reason: so they can spend general feats on what they want. paladins don't have that luxury, and certainly not the APs to spare getting a few points of DR on top of it.