+2 Tomes getting Discontinued?

[poonce]

I dont understand? How are they getting discontinued and why? someone pls Explain.

[ViolentEnd]

They are not

[oberon131313]

all newly dropped +2 tomes after Mod 9 are ML:7

[ViolentEnd]

There will, however, now be a lvl 7 requirement on newly pulled ones.

[Mhykke]

Paper shortage in stormreach.

Now it's going to be something like +2 kindle of leadership and influence.

It's a new age in stormreach:

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Amazons-Original-Wireless-generation/dp/B000FI73MA

[TheJusticar]

Paper shortage in stormreach.

Now it's going to be something like +2 kindle of leadership and influence.

It's a new age in stormreach:

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Amazons-Original-Wireless-generation/dp/B000FI73MA

How are fleshlings supposed to eat transistors, LCDs, etc? Cause in DDO, you don't READ tomes, you eat them (nom nom nom). So, while, most creatures can pass paper fiber through their digestive systems with little incident, most would probably die if they were to eat +2 Kindle Tome.

[Gladiator_206]

What is the reasoning behind making tomes have a ML? Also what overall impact will this have on the game?

[Mercules]

What is the reasoning behind making tomes have a ML? Also what overall impact will this have on the game?

If we started pulling +3 and +4 unbound tomes out of the level 20+ quests and passing them on to a level 1 character it would make the lower levels even more trivial to get through than they already are.

[SableShadow]

How are fleshlings supposed to eat transistors, LCDs, etc? Cause in DDO, you don't READ tomes, you eat them (nom nom nom). So, while, most creatures can pass paper fiber through their digestive systems with little incident, most would probably die if they were to eat +2 Kindle Tome.

To solve this problem, the new tomes are suppositories. No, you don't want to see the animation. :eek:

[ArkoHighStar]

What is the reasoning behind making tomes have a ML? Also what overall impact will this have on the game?

Actually the reason is quite simple. The devs have stated that respec is on the way, and one of the main sttumbling blocks was the fact that the game did not keep track of when you used a tome. so this is their way of establishing how tomes will be reapplied when you respec

[Gratch]

What is the reasoning behind making tomes have a ML? Also what overall impact will this have on the game?

Eladrin hinted (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2305784) that if/when a level/character respec mechanism comes and it needs to let your refigure you're skills/feat reqs... it will decide what levels you could have possibly eaten a tome based on the new ML that tomes will have. This may be because the system either doesn't track when you ate a tome, or it might default when you ate tomes in case you respec far enough back to have not eaten the tome... probably just streamlines things... mostly only the int one counts for skills and the others for feat qualifications.

Edit: One of the other cube sides got here first...though I added the link.

[Talcyndl]

Actually the reason is quite simple. The devs have stated that respec is on the way, and one of the main sttumbling blocks was the fact that the game did not keep track of when you used a tome. so this is their way of establishing how tomes will be reapplied when you respec

Interesting theory. Makes sense. Have links handy to Dev contributions to the subject? Thanks.

[ArkoHighStar]

Interesting theory. Makes sense. Have links handy to Dev contributions to the subject? Thanks.

see above:D

[TheJusticar]

To solve this problem, the new tomes are suppositories. No, you don't want to see the animation. :eek:

/ROTFLMAO

That's just plain wrong. Rep for the laugh.

Godspeed.

[Kistilan]

To solve this problem, the new tomes are suppositories. No, you don't want to see the animation. :eek:

Is this anything like the chocolate cake = genie emote?

Cuz I love that emote like a fat kid loves Chocolate Cake!!! :D

[sirgog]

What is the reasoning behind making tomes have a ML? Also what overall impact will this have on the game?

Tomes have little impact on the low levels (they just make already easy quests a little easier).

The true lasting effect is that now you get less skill points from +2 Int tomes that are nomnomnomed at low level.

[poonce]

Actually the reason is quite simple. The devs have stated that respec is on the way, and one of the main sttumbling blocks was the fact that the game did not keep track of when you used a tome. so this is their way of establishing how tomes will be reapplied when you respec

Dont realy understand why this matters, just because the tome is ML 7 doesnt mean everyone is going to eat they're tomes at this lvl, Some people might wait til lv 20 anyhow, maybe because they dont have the tome yet or to wait for the +4 tomes or whatever reason. I think they just need to keep better track of stats, and not try and take a shortcut like this, if this is the reason they are making them Ml 7 anyway, they Just need to have their programers make some kind of statistic tracking or something along those lines.

[Spisey]

Dont realy understand why this matters, just because the tome is ML 7 doesnt mean everyone is going to eat they're tomes at this lvl, Some people might wait til lv 20 anyhow, maybe because they dont have the tome yet or to wait for the +4 tomes or whatever reason. I think they just need to keep better track of stats, and not try and take a shortcut like this, if this is the reason they are making them Ml 7 anyway, they Just need to have their programers make some kind of statistic tracking or something along those lines.

That's all fine and dandy but respec means toons that are already built and probably have been for years now. All of that extra tracking and statistics that you would like added would not effect your PAST toons. Just an fyi on why this did need to be implemented so that they can actually code in respecs. :rolleyes:

[poonce]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.

[SableShadow]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

How are you getting screwed, exactly? Eat your tome, but don't use the respec mechanic...same option as all the folks who currently have Crit Rage on their barbs, you're grandfathered.

[Visty]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.

because then its a matter or preferences: keep the skills for your tome @1 or adjust your char to the newly changes

and theres a way to check your deathes, try /death count

[Spisey]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.


Honestly, respecs are going to face a few downsides and deservedly so. I don't think skill points are really a big issue if you are talking how Int will be effected by a respec. I know if i respec my crit rage 2 barb that crit rage 2 will not be available to respec to. There should always be a negative aspect to remaking something or why wouldn't you?

The ranking system might be a good idea to "show people their places" in another game. It is a horrifically aweful idea where team play is the basis for the entire principle of the game.

As for them taking shortcuts. This game is almost 4 years old and you think that they thought of everything and packed the game to completion with no room for expansion? This game has evolved into something way more than what it started out as. While some things can affect past development, some things have to be repacked to overcome past shortcomings.

[poonce]

Honestly, respecs are going to face a few downsides and deservedly so. I don't think skill points are really a big issue if you are talking how Int will be effected by a respec. I know if i respec my crit rage 2 barb that crit rage 2 will not be available to respec to. There should always be a negative aspect to remaking something or why wouldn't you?

The ranking system might be a good idea to "show people their places" in another game. It is a horrifically aweful idea where team play is the basis for the entire principle of the game.

As for them taking shortcuts. This game is almost 4 years old and you think that they thought of everything and packed the game to completion with no room for expansion? This game has evolved into something way more than what it started out as. While some things can affect past development, some things have to be repacked to overcome past shortcomings.

I completely disagree with your OPINION about Ladders being a aweful idea, any game and every game should have a ranking system, just because you dont like it, doesnt mean it shouldnt be. So what if this game is team based? doesnt mean people shouldnt be ranked to see who is the best "Team" Player.

Also, you wont be able to get Crit rage after respec because its not saposed to exist anymore, Not because it is the direct penalty for respec, Rangers arent going to lose Tempest because the chose to respec. The price should be a specific Recipe of Ingredients or collectables and a whole lot of plat, thats why people "Wouldnt" and thats the way it should be, there should in no way be a penalty, why would any game ever give you a permanent penalty? Except in your case that Crit rage isnt saposed to exist anymore, so your crit rage 2 Barb might be gimp compared to all the people that Respect to get better barb enhancment line and thats why you would chose to respec.

Skill points are a big issue imo, Int will be the most important 1, i dont know why you are saying Int will be the least important? people are going to Lose UMD, Rogue skills, Intimadate skills, ect, ect. Thats why i think people should have like 2 weeks or something to take advantage of a different respec that will be a bit different from the Respec that is actually coming. Everyone should start @ Lvl 1 with all the tomes that they have eaten be accounted for @ lvl 1, thats if they chose to Respec.. by the time the tomes go to min lvl 7 and then respec everyone would have the same skill point gain/loss anyway if they chose to respec after waiting to eat Tomes.

[TheJusticar]

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.

I'm gonna stop you right there. This is NOT in the spirit of D&D or DDO. This is an RPG (i.e. Role Paying Game) not a competitive sport.

As Spicey said, it would be a rather horrific idea. As is right now, it's asinine enough we have a in-quest kill counter -- which I've argued against in several occasions-- let alone a game wide ranking tables. That would be the end of this game.

[poonce]

I'm gonna stop you right there. This is NOT in the spirit of D&D or DDO. This is an RPG (i.e. Role Paying Game) not a competitive sport.

As Spicey said, it would be a rather horrific idea. As is right now, it's asinine enough we have a in-quest kill counter -- which I've argued against in several occasions-- let alone a game wide ranking tables. That would be the end of this game.

No way, people would be looking at their character statistics all the time and be trying to improve on them. i never said this game should have Statistics to make the game Sportier. . Its not for everyone i agree, But everyone who didnt like it simply just wouldnt have to open the Statistics Menu, simple as that.

[SableShadow]

Also, you wont be able to get Crit rage after respec because its not saposed to exist anymore

And neither will +2 tomes drop that you can eat before level 7. Look, dude, you asked "why", we told you our speculation as to "why", so what do you want from us? :confused:

[Spisey]

And neither will +2 tomes drop that you can eat before level 7. Look, dude, you asked "why", we told you our speculation as to "why", so what do you want from us? :confused:


He doesn't want an answer is what I have come to figure. This started with +2 tomes and ml, went to respeccing characters and finished with a whole new stat tracking system to implement so we can measure epeens.

I don't get it? :confused:

[poonce]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.

I got on Statistics because the fact that if they were there to begin with, there wouldnt be people losing points that they added (If they chose to Respec) @ lvl 1 because the game would know that you ate the Tome @ lvl 1.

If this is such a Team only based game than why is there a Pvp? and are you against Pvp then?

Even if there were just stats for pvp that would be awesome also. That would mean a Pvp Ladder, so people know how good they truly are, and if you didnt agree with it, you dont have to pull up the Tab . .:/

[SableShadow]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.


We don't actually know anything at this point, other than the devs are going to provide yet another respec feature (to go along with enhancement and feat respec).

I *think* they've said that ml's on tomes was done to support respec, but they don't *have* to do it that way, right? They could just as easily set tomes as ml 1 and be done with it.

ML's on tomes probably has more to do with shrinking the delta between best spec and mid spec than it does respec, really.

[Vordax]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.

I got on Statistics because the fact that if they were there to begin with, there wouldnt be people losing points that they added (If they chose to Respec) @ lvl 1 because the game would know that you ate the Tome @ lvl 1.

If this is such a Team only based game than why is there a Pvp? and are you against Pvp then?

Even if there were just stats for pvp that would be awesome also. That would mean a Pvp Ladder, so people know how good they truly are, and if you didnt agree with it, you dont have to pull up the Tab . .:/

PVP was added because of a lot of whining by a few people. That and every other MMO has it so they thought it should be here. It is a very underused feature in DDO.

They did try to add a leader board for PVP a couple of times, it failed due to some technical difficulties. Adding other leader boards would be silly, what constitutes something like the best "monk" is it anyone with a monk splash? How about the best Bard? Would that be the bard with the most SP and highest CHA? or the Bard that can sing the best damage songs?

How do you compare the thousands of different builds? Have 1000's of leader boards one for each build? Its easy in other games like WoW which only has 3 builds per class, and gear is very incremental in nature so can be ranked a lot easier.

Vordax

[smatt]

To solve this problem, the new tomes are suppositories. No, you don't want to see the animation. :eek:


There are some in Stormreach that NEED them in this way...... As well as some I'd like to see, well not actually see, but KNOW they got them this way :D

[Cendaer]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.

If you like the awesome-ness of all those stat points which you already have, then why are you even thinking about a re-spec?

If you feel the need to re-spec as deeply as what's being discussed here, then there's going to be a price to pay. If you ate a +2 INT tome at lvl 1, you're likely to still have that +2 INT tome applied, but only at the new ML value for a +2 tome, and from that point on, retain the benefits of added skill points from a higher Intelligence.



I got on Statistics because the fact that if they were there to begin with, there wouldnt be people losing points that they added (If they chose to Respec) @ lvl 1 because the game would know that you ate the Tome @ lvl 1.

They've already admitted that up until Sept. 1st, they have not been keeping track of when, exactly, in a character's progression a tome was used; it simply wasn't being recorded by the game in any way.

This means that no matter how much kicking and screaming you do, they're not going to be able to produce that data for any tome consumed before Sept. 1st. The only way it will happen, is if the magical data gnome fairies arrive sometime Soon™, wave their magic wands, and make that data appear out of thin air.

All you're doing with that statement, is berating a development team about the job they've done thus far. Trust me, they get it. That's why there's work being done on a re-spec system, because people want it. Everyone's just gonna have to take a deep breath here though, and realize that some things are just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

If you just can't stand it anymore, take matters into your own hands, and either teach Turbine how to do their job in a more constructive manner, or let your wallet do the talking, but berating people is going to get you nowhere fast.



If this is such a Team only based game than why is there a Pvp? and are you against Pvp then?

PvP is there as a diversion, it is NOT the point of the game.

And yes, I'm against PvP, and will be until I can use EVERY SINGLE SPELL in my Wizard characters' spell books, while they're in a PvP area.



Even if there were just stats for pvp that would be awesome also. That would mean a Pvp Ladder, so people know how good they truly are, and if you didnt agree with it, you dont have to pull up the Tab . .:/

If you're so gung-ho about it, and feel like so many other folks would be as well, then start your own PvP league on your server, set up your www site, and post your ladders. If you attract enough attention with that project, I'm sure you'd be able to more thoroughly convince everyone to support your idea of incorporating it into the game itself.

IMO, it just sounds like you want Turbine to do all the work in keeping the records for your fight-club. If you want to swing your PvP e-peen, then do it yourself, don't ask someone else to swing it for you.

[TheJusticar]

IMO, it just sounds like you want Turbine to do all the work in keeping the records for your fight-club. If you want to swing your PvP e-peen, then do it yourself, don't ask someone else to swing it for you.

Bingo. Exactamundo.

[Nikmal]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.

first... with the change of the ML of the Tomes does not mean that you will loose the stats from a previous tome. They are not taking short cuts in coding or in general.

The second paragraph.. there are similar things in the code like that already. Though from one.. I am glad that they do NOT have a ladder system. In an MMO that does not do PvP does not need a Ladder system. this game is not a competitive one.

[Mercules]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.

I got on Statistics because the fact that if they were there to begin with, there wouldnt be people losing points that they added (If they chose to Respec) @ lvl 1 because the game would know that you ate the Tome @ lvl 1.

"Hi I can't even be bothered to spell correctly but I expect developers of a game to have the forethought to see that in 4 years they might want to put in a feature they hadn't had previously and will need to code in meaningless stat tracking. This isn't "rite"".

We are all adults here, well most of us, and understand that if we choose to respec our character who ate a tome we will loose skill points if we had twinked our characters with that tome very early on in their creation.

It is really a very minor deal. In fact it is very likely that more characters will gain extra skill points from a respec than characters that loose them. Why? because most people ate the +2 Int tome later than the current level it would get applied in a respec.

[Mindspat]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? .

nope.

I suppose your concern would be valid if Respec's become mandatory, but if you can't play your character with a few less skill points then it's not your character that's gimped. :p

All my characters, a total of two, will benefit from the MinLevel Respec. :D

[Hambo]

To solve this problem, the new tomes are suppositories. No, you don't want to see the animation. :eek:

They should also be +1 acid... :D

[Velexia]

I dont understand? How are they getting discontinued and why? someone pls Explain.

It's a Public Health concern. Too many people were eating them instead of reading them.

[Vordax]

"Hi I can't even be bothered to spell correctly but I expect developers of a game to have the forethought to see that in 4 years they might want to put in a feature they hadn't had previously and will need to code in meaningless stat tracking. This isn't "rite"".

We are all adults here, well most of us, and understand that if we choose to respec our character who ate a tome we will loose skill points if we had twinked our characters with that tome very early on in their creation.

It is really a very minor deal. In fact it is very likely that more characters will gain extra skill points from a respec than characters that loose them. Why? because most people ate the +2 Int tome later than the current level it would get applied in a respec.

I would bet they don't store anything regarding the tome usage except what the highest inherent bonus to a stat is. So when respecing comes along and you had used a +3 tome, you would get +1 at level 3, then another +1 at 7 and then +1 at 11.

Vordax

[Hambo]

No i got my answer, Its just my opinion that i dont agree with it, the ML is fine i guess, its the repecing and taking away from the points/tomes that you already ate to begin with part that Im disagreing with now.

They won't be taking anything away if respec is introduced... you would still get the Tome, just at a more level appropriate point. You aren't going to find a +2 Tome of any kind at level 1 and they are adjusting the mechanic to disallow that from happening. You would have to give up the extra skill/hit/mana points granted up to level 7 if you respec, but look at it this way... If you did use all of the +2 tomes when your alt was at level 1, you would be grandfathered if you didn't respec. Think of it as a "legal Exploit".

I got on Statistics because the fact that if they were there to begin with, there wouldnt be people losing points that they added (If they chose to Respec) @ lvl 1 because the game would know that you ate the Tome @ lvl 1.

If this is such a Team only based game than why is there a Pvp? and are you against Pvp then?

PvP didn't exist in this game until a year after the game went live... it was added later, and even the "leaderboard" just for PvP doesn't really work yet.

Even if there were just stats for pvp that would be awesome also. That would mean a Pvp Ladder, so people know how good they truly are, and if you didnt agree with it, you dont have to pull up the Tab . .:/

See above comment. The PvP leaderboard has been put on a back burner for the past year or so to work on F2P.



Commentary in red.

[Jovial]

They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts.

HahahahHAaaha! Really? Lets see GH, DA, W/P, Transmuters. Why should they stop breaking the rules now?

[smatt]

So everyone that ate +2 tomes @ lvl 1 are going to get screwed out of points then? how does this make things rite? They need to Code the game rite and not take shortcuts. When they first start the respecs they need to let everyone respec to 1 imo with all the tomes that they have eaten No matter what lvl they ate them @ to 1 so noone gets screwed.

By the way, why arent there statistics in this game anyhow? would be nice to see how many times you have died, how many monsters you have slain, A chart showing when and what lvl your Stat points went up, How many quests you have completed, and Also some kind of Ladder system that allows us to actually see where we rank among other players and how good we atually are? Imo Ladder systems Are Extremely Important in games so you can see where your place is. it promotes competative gameplay, And even if alot of people wouldnt like it and or use it, there are a lot that would love to use them also.


You get right on all that coding and a new engine too boot.. One tha can also handle all those as well.... See you in a few years, and at least a few million dollars :eek:


I would love a lot of things... But how many are feasible, how many are economical... How many are close to realistic.....:cool:

[Talcyndl]

It is a very underused feature in DDO.


True. Although I think with the new sparring system, there will be a lot more PVP. I know I will spar with guildies while waiting for groups to fill. Something to pass the time.

[poonce]

People post like i reached in and slapped them out of theyre chairs from the screen infront of them.

Cendaer and a few others please dont "EVER" post in a thread i have posted in, your EPeen's are obviously very large because you in another state hiding behind a screen, But i guess i would take revenge on people also if i was a D&D nerd playing pen and paper at lunch in HS and people whiped my ass everyday, poor hurt, angry little boys you have become. Have fun flaming.