Question regarding rogues.

[SloWMN]

Hi,

I want to build a new toon and do multi-class. But was wondering can rogues do a lot of damage and how? Let's say 50 dps+ (whatever u call it) at all lvl quests?

My fighter can do on some quests up to 73-78 of damage, but usually is anywhere between 22-23 and 53-54.

Thx!

[Goldeneye]

If getting backstab damage, rogues are one of the highest DPS classes. If you build a strength based TWF Halfling level 20 Rogue, you will be getting an additional 50+ sneak attack damage per swing. The base damage you will be doing will be less then a fighter or a barbarian, but with the amount of sneak attack damage rogues do, it can be rediculous.

[KingOfCheese]

Rogues, when sneak attacking, are the highest damage in the game. Their damage is high at all levels.

Damage comes from two primary build aspects: number of attacks and damage per attack. The numbers you mention are the damage per attack number. Rogue do very well here. Sneak attack damage at end game can average greater than 60 damage per hit. This is added to whatever your regular damage is (which depends on str, weapon type, feats, etc.). When sneak attacking, a rogue can deliver over 100 damage on non-crit hits. Equally (or more) important is the number of attacks per second. A two-weapon fighting rogue with rogue haste boost and haste is a whirling machine of death. If it also has tempest (from 6 levels of ranger)--it is sick sick sick.

Short answer--rogue can do great damage when backstabbing, and decent damage when not backstabbing (depending on build and gear). Certain enemies are resistant to backstabs--making rogue damage not universal.

[SloWMN]

Hi guys,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at DEX rogue (weapon finesse?). I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal. :)

Any suggestions.

P.S. I will use DDO ChaGen and then post it here. Maybe you guys can look at it and give me suggestions. Give some time (15-30 min).

Thx!

[SableShadow]

Hi guys,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at DEX rogue (weapon finesse?). I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal. :)

Any suggestions.

P.S. I will use DDO ChaGen and then post it here. Maybe you guys can look at it and give me suggestions. Give some time (15-30 min).

Thx!

Thought: go to the rogue forums, read some of the builds, look at the comments other folks are making on those builds. Save a few electrons.

[SloWMN]

Here is my build. I wanted to be able to do what rogue does as well as fight and at least heal myself.

Is this any good?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(16 Rogue \ 4 Cleric)
Hit Points: 150
Spell Points: 231
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 17
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 17 23
Constitution 6 6
Intelligence 17 20
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 17 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 18
Bluff 5 19
Concentration -2 15
Diplomacy 5 21
Disable Device 7 19
Haggle 5 19
Heal 1 18
Hide 5 18
Intimidate 5 19
Jump 3 18
Listen 3 20
Move Silently 5 19
Open Lock 7 19
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 19
Search 6 19
Spot 5 20
Swim 0 19
Tumble 5 19
Use Magic Device 7 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Alertness
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock IV


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Diplomacy I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Diplomacy II
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I

[Trillea]

Here is my build. I wanted to be able to do what rogue does as well as fight and at least heal myself.

Is this any good?



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(16 Rogue \ 4 Cleric)
Hit Points: 150
Spell Points: 231
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 17
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 17 23
Constitution 6 6
Intelligence 17 20
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 17 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 18
Bluff 5 19
Concentration -2 15
Diplomacy 5 21
Disable Device 7 19
Haggle 5 19
Heal 1 18
Hide 5 18
Intimidate 5 19
Jump 3 18
Listen 3 20
Move Silently 5 19
Open Lock 7 19
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 19
Search 6 19
Spot 5 20
Swim 0 19
Tumble 5 19
Use Magic Device 7 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Alertness
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock IV


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Diplomacy I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Diplomacy II
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I




Oh god no. CON is WAY WAY WAY WAY too low. drop some INT and CHA and add the points into CON, get it at LEAST up to a 12.

[KingOfCheese]

Hi guys,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at DEX rogue (weapon finesse?). I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal. :)

Any suggestions.

P.S. I will use DDO ChaGen and then post it here. Maybe you guys can look at it and give me suggestions. Give some time (15-30 min).

Thx!

Sneak attack is not a ranged effect. It happens when you are close and personal--so long as someone else has the enemy's attention. Sneak attack is required for a DEX-based rogue to put out meaningful damage.

[SloWMN]

Thought: go to the rogue forums, read some of the builds, look at the comments other folks are making on those builds. Save a few electrons.


I will. thanx for that suggestion.


P.S. Did not see ur post before posting that DDOCharGen thing.

[Velexia]

Hi guys,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at DEX rogue (weapon finesse?). I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal. :)

Any suggestions.

P.S. I will use DDO ChaGen and then post it here. Maybe you guys can look at it and give me suggestions. Give some time (15-30 min).

Thx!

In light of the red-highlighted text, the rogue class is not for you. Try a barbarian perhaps (but remember, you are not the tank, you are the clean-up crew, stay away from aggro, aggro is bad).

[Angelus_dead]

I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal.
Those two statements contradict each other.

Sneak Attack is a close-range ability.

[KingOfCheese]

The build is non-optimal.

The cleric levels will hurt you. I'd advise against this. It looks like you are maxing out UMD. That will allow you to use wands and, eventually, heal scrolls. That provides more than enough healing power (and much more than 4 levels of cleric will get you).

As suggested above, the CON is way too low. You'll get creamed with this CON. 12-14 is a good target range. Dump your Wisdom to a the minimum to get some of these points. Your intel and charisma can both be lowered to get points was well. You'll want a higher STR as well. Ideally, you want to be able to eventually get your STR in the low to mid 20s with tomes and gear--otherwise you will have trouble breaking through some monster DRs (damage resists) and you will do zero damage on them. Consider a starting STR of about 12 minimum, CON in 12-14 range, high dex is fine (although a STR-based rogue can be more effective than a dex-based one).

With a lower intell, you'll lose some skills--but some are not very useful: heal, repair, swim--lots can be skipped or taken as partial ranks.

[SloWMN]

Those two statements contradict each other.

Sneak Attack is a close-range ability.


What I meant is I do not want to go behind the enemy and attack. I want face-2-face.

[SableShadow]

I will. thanx for that suggestion.


The suggestion didn't stop at the first comma. :p

[Angelus_dead]

What I meant is I do not want to go behind the enemy and attack. I want face-2-face.
Yes, and your desires in that regard are irrelevant to Sneak Attack.

[Aspenor]

If you want to fight 1 on 1, the rogue class isn't for you.

[wamjratl1]

Hi and welcome to the game. It really looks like you don't want to play a rogue at all. And that build is a hot mess (no offense).

Look at some rogue builds, read some rogue discussions, figure out what feats do what (like Weapon Finnesse and Khopesh does not make sense) and then decide if you want to play a rogue. Judging from your posts, it sounds like you may enjoy playing another class until you have a better idea what rogues require to be effective and fun to play.

[Noctus]

What I meant is I do not want to go behind the enemy and attack. I want face-2-face.


You should read the rules regarding sneak attack. Seems your image of sneak attack is simply wrong. Sneak attacking is personal, close combat, face-to-face.
* Its no ranged attack.
* It has nothing to do with needing to stand behind the enemy
* You only need some other person to have the attention of the enemy you are fighting. Best way to get that is to team up with another DPS melee charcter and fight the same enemy.
* You do not need to sneak around with your rogue, not even to get a sneak attack.

[Aspenor]

You should read the rules regarding sneak attack. Seems your image of sneak attack is simply wrong. Sneak attacking is personal, close combat, face-to-face.
* Its no ranged attack.
* It has nothing to do with needing to stand behind the enemy
* You only need some other person to have the attention of the enemy you are fighting. Best way to get that is to team up with another DPS melee charcter and fight the same enemy.

True, it doesn't have anything to do with being behind them, but you do get a +2 to-hit for being behind them. That's for anybody, not just rogues.

[Zaal]

You should read the rules regarding sneak attack. Seems your image of sneak attack is simply wrong. Sneak attacking is personal, close combat, face-to-face.
* Its no ranged attack.
* It has nothing to do with needing to stand behind the enemy
* You only need some other person to have the attention of the enemy you are fighting. Best way to get that is to team up with another DPS melee charcter and fight the same enemy.
* You do not need to sneak around with your rogue, not even to get a sneak attack.

That's not entirely true. You DO get your sneak bonus when you range IF you are up close and personal.

When I range the boss in VOD/SHROUD, i am up close and personal and when things get tough, I retreat to a safe distance but can still do respectable damage with BURST/BANE repeaters.

[Zaal]

But is looks like there's a bug in the combat log - please school me.

When I sneak attack, be it with a HRC, Wounding / Puncturing , seems I don't get any ELEMENTAL/BURST/BANE/STAT damage.

Is this a bug? Is the damage just rolled in?

Not exactly sure what I'm looking here - plz advise.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Hi guys,

Thx for the reply. I am looking at DEX rogue (weapon finesse?). I am not too much of a sneak attack fan. I like to come close and personal. :)

Any suggestions.

P.S. I will use DDO ChaGen and then post it here. Maybe you guys can look at it and give me suggestions. Give some time (15-30 min).

Thx!

If you are not getting sneak attack damage you should not be rolling a rogue.

[Zaal]

If you are not getting sneak attack damage you should not be rolling a rogue.

Naa - he was just a tad confused regards the mechanics of SNEAK ATTACK in our lovely mmo :)

[Quikster]

Rogs can be the absolute most fun in this game imo. But they can also be one of the biggest liabilities in a group if built wrong. A good rog has a wide spread of stat points, and few of your stats will be maxed.

If you are going for a high ac rog, consider a monk splash. One level for 19/1 or 2 levels 18/2. you will need a few points in wisdom and should prolly max dex. You want to have your ending str in the 20's when buffed.

Dont bother making this build until you get more of a handle on the game mechanics, or do a lot of reseach. A good rog cannot be beat imo. I have rogs that can tank/heal/rez/haggle/sneak/trap/solo/etc. But they take a lot of gear, and a lot of play time to get em there. GL with whatever you chose and make sure to make a post if you come up with any ideas that stray from the proven builds out there. Even if you insist on making it, some will give you a good idea of what to expect from your build.

[Arianrhod]

Just skimmed over most of this, but thought I'd add my bit -

If you want to do lots of damage and have aggro (not sneak attack), might want to consider a Tempest ranger rather than a rogue (can still get decent rogue skills if you take a rogue level first, then all ranger after that). You'd want to go STR-based rather than DEX-based, though. Damage in this game is calculated with STR, never with DEX (the weapon finesse feat allows you to use DEX instead of STR to hit, but damage is still STR).

Good luck, have fun, and don't be afraid to reroll - we all do eventually ;)