New Quest For Rogues

[croger1520033]

What would you guys think of a new quest being implemented for rogues only in a future mod. One that challenged all rogue skills.

Basically have it start in a huge room have a book in the middle outlining rules for a true rogue. Before them lies a single door. Through this starts the test of the rogue.

First room the test of stealth:

A rogue must circumvent a room that is riddled with dummies that shoot spines from themselves that do 1d30 damage, on them is a magical ward that allows them to sense creatures hidden and not so hidden. Dc check 55 Hide 50 Move silently. You have to move between the dummies some placed closer together than others with out touching them or triggering them.

Second room the test of agility:

Have a bridge that crosses an abyss, by abyss I mean no bottom no survival if you fall. Have wrecking balls swinging across the bridge in some areas and other obstacles on other parts that make it so you have to jump duck run side step all the way across.

Third room Pit of Death:

Basically a pit that is lined with swirling blades, blowguns and spikes, and a ceiling that is lined with spikes that starts to come down as soon as you enter giving you about 1 min 30 secs to cross to the other side.

Fourth Room The Test of senses:

A room lined with traps that are randomly placed, with random degrees of difficulty for disarming and surviving. Room would not necessarily be straight or flat.

I am thinking a total of something like 6 rooms, not sure what the rest would be. There would be a time limit imposed for every room and one for the overall quest. I am thinking they could scale the quest the way they scaled the market invasion quest. Basically Normal, Hard, Elite would be for different levels and the dc's would scale accordingly. Just think that rogues need more stuff to do in game, as this is the game that actually give the rogue a different set of skills that add a new dimension of gameplay. Why not Take advantage of that uniqueness and make a set of rogue only quest?? And maybe have static rewards like threnals, and ww, and the like have just for rogues.

Anyways any thoughts from anyone??

[Memnir]

I don't think it's a good idea to make a quest that only one of the classes in the game can run. Very poor payoff vs. design-time ratio. Unless of course, you design a solo-only quest for every class in the game - which again, is pretty silly.

Better to focus on quests that can be run by everyone, even if they are weighted towards needing certain classes in order to make the run smoother.

[croger1520033]

I don't think it's a good idea to make a quest that only one of the classes in the game can run. Very poor payoff vs. design-time ratio. Unless of course, you design a solo-only quest for every class in the game - which again, is pretty silly.

Better to focus on quests that can be run by everyone, even if they are weighted towards needing certain classes in order to make the run smoother.

Yea cause you see all kinds of rogues that are pure out there, this would at least make it fun for them. And the end rewards could be things that are in other quests for rogues too with as higher probability of dropping in this quest. Also Making one quest like this wouldn't be too hard to make, also most every class is more welcome in groups than rogues with the exception of Monk, and I would suggest making them a quest like this as well. Not only would it give the game a little more flavor but would give these classes a little something to have some fun with.

[Lithic]

From a mainly rogue player, I say thumbs down. Give us traps and locks and sneakable places in quests, but don't make a quest for only rogues.

[Memnir]

Yea cause you see all kinds of rogues that are pure out there, this would at least make it fun for them. And the end rewards could be things that are in other quests for rogues too with as higher probability of dropping in this quest. Also Making one quest like this wouldn't be too hard to make, also most every class is more welcome in groups than rogues with the exception of Monk, and I would suggest making them a quest like this as well. Not only would it give the game a little more flavor but would give these classes a little something to have some fun with.You asked for opinions - that's mine. And I stand by it, since nothing in your rebuttal changes my mind. If any Rogue has problems getting groups, then they should be the ones making the group. Presto - problem solved with zero additional Dev time that would have at most only a marginal gain.

[Lithic]

You asked for opinions - that's mine. And I stand by it, since nothing in your rebuttal changes my mind. If any Rogue has problems getting groups, then they should take up 2WF, take all 4 tiers of sublte backstabbing and rogue sneak damage. And then start their own groups.. Presto - problem solved with zero additional Dev time that would have at most only a marginal gain.

Modified memnirs original thought in red.

[Memnir]

I just thought that saying "problems getting groups" that the red part was kinda understood. :D
But, thank you for clarifying my point - always appreciated.

[Fenrisulven6]

Heh. The last time my rogue went into sneak mode, the party lapped me. :(

[Mhykke]

I think if DDO was the size of WoW, quests for individual classes would be awesome.

I think it'd be great if you could go into specifically designed quests for a certain class. It'd be fun, and give people things to do when there aren't groups around/they don't feel like grouping.

Sadly, DDO does not have the resources to dedicate to making fringe quests like this. Maybe someday DDO will become a bigger moneymaker and Turbine will add more devs to the team and we'll see all sorts of things implemented in the game, including quests for specific classes.

[Lithic]

Heh. The last time my rogue went into sneak mode, the party lapped me. :(

You need to practice the following roguely combo:

jump, sneak while in the air, double assasinate before you hit the ground, tumble out of sneak, turn on blender'o'radience.

Other than soloing, the above is the only time I use the sneak button :D

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I think its a cool idea but I think the quest should be made so that all classes can do it. Just as was said...make it weighted toward rogue skills, particularly sneaking (MS/HS) which imo is an under utilized skill in the game.

A trap room where the ceiling starts to come down! Way cool, charlie brown! Even the ftr or barb with 500 hp would be squishy in that room!

[Phidius]

I'm not sure where the "rogue only" would come from - are you thinking about adding code to only allow pure rogues in?




First room the test of stealth:

A rogue must circumvent a room that is riddled with dummies that shoot spines from themselves that do 1d30 damage, on them is a magical ward that allows them to sense creatures hidden and not so hidden. Dc check 55 Hide 50 Move silently. You have to move between the dummies some placed closer together than others with out touching them or triggering them.



Hide/Move Silently is not a rogue-only skill, and can be just as high on other classes.



Second room the test of agility:

Have a bridge that crosses an abyss, by abyss I mean no bottom no survival if you fall. Have wrecking balls swinging across the bridge in some areas and other obstacles on other parts that make it so you have to jump duck run side step all the way across.

Third room Pit of Death:

Basically a pit that is lined with swirling blades, blowguns and spikes, and a ceiling that is lined with spikes that starts to come down as soon as you enter giving you about 1 min 30 secs to cross to the other side.


Twitch skills can be used by non-rogues as well.



Fourth Room The Test of senses:

A room lined with traps that are randomly placed, with random degrees of difficulty for disarming and surviving. Room would not necessarily be straight or flat.


Wizards with a light splash would be good here, too.



I am thinking a total of something like 6 rooms, not sure what the rest would be. There would be a time limit imposed for every room and one for the overall quest. I am thinking they could scale the quest the way they scaled the market invasion quest. Basically Normal, Hard, Elite would be for different levels and the dc's would scale accordingly. Just think that rogues need more stuff to do in game, as this is the game that actually give the rogue a different set of skills that add a new dimension of gameplay. Why not Take advantage of that uniqueness and make a set of rogue only quest?? And maybe have static rewards like threnals, and ww, and the like have just for rogues.

Anyways any thoughts from anyone??

Room 5 or 6 need to basically be:

The center of the room contains a boss with 1,000,000 hitpoints, and he has a short attention span. You will need to not only do massive backstabs to take him down in time, but you also need to find a way to survive when his attention switches to you.

If pure utility rogues are having difficulties getting into groups, I bet they'd prefer to have Turbine make quests where their skills are needed instead of making one quest they could shine in. Maybe even for Turbine to stop making it mandatory to kill every thing that moves to complete, too.

Is it just me that finds it odd that the solution to rogues not being able to get into groups is to give them a quest that they have to solo?

[drachine]

i hear you on making a single quest for that would challenge the rogue class. but honestly i think there is a bigger problem then that. the game overall lacks all imagination and content which is the reason most people play the rogue class. it is a serious design flaw. honestly, if there came out a game that offered more intrigue to the rogue class i would leave ddo in a second to play it. my suggestions?

1) stormreach is a city. there should be residences and businesses which rogues can go after as far marks or theft. the rich merchant's home and appropriate guards and what not. it should be implemented into the game. the city should be a type of adventure zone with dangerous elements to it. not using it this way is just a huge disappointment. there should also be punishment if caught and what not.

2) in the city should be a thieves guild. if for no other reason then most lower level rogues need guidance on how to play their characters and what gear they should have such as potions of fox's cunning to help their disable. a thieves guild would help rogues learn to how to become better rogues if for no other reason. and thieves should have to pay dues.

3) much in the way their were actual NPCs in the game that people had to play and find and take down, their should be a few crimminals played by ddo employees to face off against. this worked in the past well. i think this would add a lot to the game.

4) their should be an extensive sewer system which is an adventure zone linked to actual quests in the game like the sunken sewer and the waterworks and hiding in plain sight.

5) their should be people who's pockets you can pick as well as monsters.

6) their should be a black market and items such as poison and other things which are only accessible to rogues are those with free agent favor.

7) their should be a clear difference from religion to religion. a priest of vulkoor is different then a cleric of whatever the good diety in stormreach is, i don't even know.

8) traps should not be static, but there should be some random element. there should even be random difficulty. why not?

[SableShadow]

You need to practice the following roguely combo:

jump, sneak while in the air, double assasinate before you hit the ground, tumble out of sneak, turn on blender'o'radience.

Other than soloing, the above is the only time I use the sneak button :D

Seen you do that, very freakin' clever. ;)

[TheJusticar]

How about lowbie and midbie Necropolis quests?

How about Deleras pt4 (on elite)?

How about Co6 (where stealth and trap skills works wonders)?

How about STK part3 (on elite)?

How about desert quests on elite?

VoD?

Seems to me there are more than plenty quests where a rogue is an absolute must. Sure some groups can do w/o, but most groups have a much easier time if they have a skilled rogue with them.

Just my 2cp.

Godspeed.

[Zenako]

Ummm just go do Prove Your Worth out in Three Barrel Cove. It has almost everything you are looking for already and is level 5 base IIRC.

[Mercules]

i hear you on making a single quest for that would challenge the rogue class. but honestly i think there is a bigger problem then that. the game overall lacks all imagination and content which is the reason most people play the rogue class. it is a serious design flaw. honestly, if there came out a game that offered more intrigue to the rogue class i would leave ddo in a second to play it. my suggestions?

1) stormreach is a city. there should be residences and businesses which rogues can go after as far marks or theft. the rich merchant's home and appropriate guards and what not. it should be implemented into the game. the city should be a type of adventure zone with dangerous elements to it. not using it this way is just a huge disappointment. there should also be punishment if caught and what not.

2) in the city should be a thieves guild. if for no other reason then most lower level rogues need guidance on how to play their characters and what gear they should have such as potions of fox's cunning to help their disable. a thieves guild would help rogues learn to how to become better rogues if for no other reason. and thieves should have to pay dues.

3) much in the way their were actual NPCs in the game that people had to play and find and take down, their should be a few crimminals played by ddo employees to face off against. this worked in the past well. i think this would add a lot to the game.

5) their should be people who's pockets you can pick as well as monsters.


I can answer all these for you very simply. ROGUES ARE NOT THIEVES.


Some are, but a Rogue need never do anything illicit to practice his occupation.

Kundrin Gearfoe, my Rogue has the background of being a trapsmith. Someone who installs traps knows how to disable them. He is not a criminal, but a security expert. He is also a Dwarf and so trained in combat like all of his clan.

[Kriogen]

What would you guys think of a new quest being implemented for rogues only in a future mod. One that challenged all rogue skills.
...
Sure, if you also make barbarian only quest, fighter only quest, cleric only quest, bard only quest, ect.



First room the test of stealth:

A rogue must circumvent a room that is riddled with dummies that shoot spines from themselves that do 1d30 damage, on them is a magical ward that allows them to sense creatures hidden and not so hidden. Dc check 55 Hide 50 Move silently. You have to move between the dummies some placed closer together than others with out touching them or triggering them.

Sneak is not Rogue exclusive skill. Plus, Cleric with enough mana pots can outheal anything. Goes the same for Wizard/Sorc. Even better why not WF Wizard. Or WF Rogue2/Wizard18?



Second room the test of agility:

Have a bridge that crosses an abyss, by abyss I mean no bottom no survival if you fall. Have wrecking balls swinging across the bridge in some areas and other obstacles on other parts that make it so you have to jump duck run side step all the way across.

Third room Pit of Death:

Basically a pit that is lined with swirling blades, blowguns and spikes, and a ceiling that is lined with spikes that starts to come down as soon as you enter giving you about 1 min 30 secs to cross to the other side.

Sounds like parts of Crucible in Gianthold. Nice quest by the way.



Fourth Room The Test of senses:

A room lined with traps that are randomly placed, with random degrees of difficulty for disarming and surviving. Room would not necessarily be straight or flat.

Rogues can do traps, yes. But so does any splash rogue. Rogue/Wizards do traps even better because Int is primary stat for Wizards and trap skills (search,dd) is Int based skill.

[drachine]

I can answer all these for you very simply. ROGUES ARE NOT THIEVES.


Some are, but a Rogue need never do anything illicit to practice his occupation.

Kundrin Gearfoe, my Rogue has the background of being a trapsmith. Someone who installs traps knows how to disable them. He is not a criminal, but a security expert. He is also a Dwarf and so trained in combat like all of his clan.

This has little to do with my comments addressing the game. That's YOUR rogue. Not to get sucked into a ridiculous argument. Even so, rogues were born from the thief class. Obviously many players out their want to. Some do not I'm sure, but those who want to should be allowed to play their characters to fullest of their imagination.

If all you want to be is a glorified locksmith, goodie good for you. Many of us don't want to be locked into such a profession.

[TheJusticar]

This has little to do with my comments addressing the game. That's YOUR rogue. Not to get sucked into a ridiculous argument. Even so, rogues were born from the thief class. Obviously many players out their want to. Some do not I'm sure, but those who want to should be allowed to play their characters to fullest of their imagination.

If all you want to be is a glorified locksmith, goodie good for you. Many of us don't want to be locked into such a profession.

So, where are my Sorcerer's familiars? Where is my Wizard's Stop Time? Where is my two-shield ninja? Where is my halfling's domesticated velociraptor mount? How does this plea for more rogue-friendly content any more important than any of the above?

And, seriously, in PnP most people utterly hated grouping with chaotic thieve PCs. Noting more annoying that having to keep an eye on the thief picking on the pockets and bag of holding of the rest of the group or assassinating the Inn Keeper for a few copper.

Godspeed.

[Mercules]

This has little to do with my comments addressing the game. That's YOUR rogue. Not to get sucked into a ridiculous argument. Even so, rogues were born from the thief class. Obviously many players out their want to. Some do not I'm sure, but those who want to should be allowed to play their characters to fullest of their imagination.

If all you want to be is a glorified locksmith, goodie good for you. Many of us don't want to be locked into such a profession.

This has a lot to do with your comments.



2) in the city should be a thieves guild. if for no other reason then most lower level rogues need guidance on how to play their characters and what gear they should have such as potions of fox's cunning to help their disable. a thieves guild would help rogues learn to how to become better rogues if for no other reason. and thieves should have to pay dues.

You realize that an actual Thieves guild is not comprised fully of the Rogue class, right? There are Enforces that are of the Fighter class, probably a Sorcerer or two who has the right spells for cat-burglary or maybe illusions for running scams, a Cleric of an appropriate deity, and more.


Your argument is very narrow with a definite bias on what you personally believe the role of a Rogue is which is outdated and frankly naive. In addition you fail to understand what others pointed out that making a "X class" only quest and "X class" only activities is not what the DDO game is about and is not what it should be about.

Next thing you know Rangers and Barbarians will want animals they can hunt so they can create things from the Hides of said animals and turn the meat into something like Tasty Ham. Then all the casters will want to be able to craft magic items and sell them just like the 3.5 rules have them. Then Fighters will want a guild for training.

Basically everything you want is available in Morrowind and you don't even have to pay a monthly fee. If you feel the need to run around and steal then pawn decorative plates and paintings there is a game already designed for that. You must understand any "feature" put into the game will cost money and development time as well as testing time. That time is better spent on features that will affect everyone instead of a specific class. Yes a new spell helps out spell casting classes primarily but it also helps out the rest of the party by giving them a new tool to help clear a quest. Picking some random NPC's pocket doesn't help the group.

There are definitely people who want this feature. I won't deny that. This isn't the game to implement it in though as there are other features that could be implemented that would be more useful for everyone.