re spec's

[foxx]

so just exactly how far are we going to be able to re-spec a charactor?

all the way down to moving stat points around or just redoing action points ?

i mean hey if we can move stat points around then how about changing race or class?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

They were deliberately vague in the announcement. It sounded like they were still testing tech and deciding what the can do and want to do. I suspect we will have to wait until just before mod 10 or mod 11 or mod 12 before we know anything.

[foxx]

ahh Well i guess thats why my queries in guild and groups gave up vague answers.

[Barron]

Well you can already redo action points but I am suspecting you might have meant Skill points. In the interview I understood that you would be able to go back to zero xp and use what you have earned to relevel. The only thing I didnt remember hearing was stat points and changing alignment.

[foxx]

indeed i did mean skill points.

[Hafeal]

My guess is that we will all want to save up our TPs as this could likely be a DDO Store premium feature. And oh will there complaining if they do it that way ...



indeed i did mean skill points.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

My guess is that we will all want to save up our TPs as this could likely be a DDO Store premium feature. And oh will there complaining if they do it that way ...

Not could, will. They specifically said it would be a paid store feature.

[Hafeal]

Not could, will. They specifically said it would be a paid store feature.

You know, I hate to speak in absolutes, especially where Turbine says something ... :p

[foxx]

You know, I hate to speak in absolutes, especially where Turbine says something ... :p

there is one absolute we can be assured of when talking turbine.
<EVIL><GRIN>
mod 10 comes out right behind 9 heh heh

.speaking of mod 10, i hear it's allready done for the most part.

[Hafeal]

.speaking of mod 10, i hear it's allready done for the most part.

I heard it's coming out a week after Mod 9, isn't that great!?! :p

[EKKM]

I heard it's coming out a week after Mod 9, isn't that great!?! :p

I'll assume that you have a direct link to the developers and that is a fact. If there is no mod 10 on September 16th I will create a thread threatening to cancel my subscription because mod 10 is delayed.

[Hafeal]

i'll Assume That You Have A Direct Link To The Developers And That Is A Fact. If There Is No Mod 10 On September 16th I Will Create A Thread Threatening To Cancel My Subscription Because Mod 10 Is Delayed.

Lmao. :d

[foxx]

I'll assume that you have a direct link to the developers and that is a fact. If there is no mod 10 on September 16th I will create a thread threatening to cancel my subscription because mod 10 is delayed.

and i will copy OP post and re post for 1 more point.

thats how serious this is <G>

[DoctorBadWolf]

I'll assume that you have a direct link to the developers and that is a fact. If there is no mod 10 on September 16th I will create a thread threatening to cancel my subscription because mod 10 is delayed.

+1 rep

[Goldeneye]

The largest bit of information about re-specs we have received came in DDO Cast Ep. 126 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192172)

As for when this is, we all know how fabulous the Devs are at sticking to scheduled times, so I can assume that mod 10 might be targeted at 2015.

[DoctorBadWolf]

The take your xp and relevel thing is sounding good. I really hope it includes a 28 to 32 point function for those who've unlocked 32 point builds, but unfortunately nothing in what was said confirms or denies that.

IIRC, even the beta thread post by a dev confirming that MLs on tomes was in preperation for respecs also failed to speak on the possibility of 28 to 32 respec option.

Bummer, but at least we're getting respecs.

I'd place this a little higher on my happy meter than when we got the hugely beneficial enhancement system change, way back when.

[Riorik]

I"ve been analyzing and estimating what to expect.

Problems players complain about:
Chose wrong class at levelup (classic Wiz15/Sor1)
Chose wrong alignment at start
Choose different stats
Choose different race
Upgrade to 32pt builds

My premise is sort of a priority list for Turbine...what are they most likely to give us to the least likely and what type of problems do players have that would be the basis of giving us a full character respec.

My guess is we're most likely to be able to re-choose classes & alignment. If they also give us the ability to pick starting stats...they might give us race. If they give us race, they might give us 32 point builds as an upgrade option. If any of the latter three are added, they may consider a pricing scheme that charges based on how much you want to change.

Last part depends on how mercenary/desperate for revenue they intend to be long term.

Full Character Respec is something they should offer for free to all characters impacted by major changes...for example, Barbarians (frenzied changes), Rangers (when tempest came out), etc.

Naturally, everything I type *must* be exactly what Turbine is thinking...and naturally they'll go out of their way to make us all happy and provide all the options....within 2 weeks of mod9 release.

[Waukeen]

/reroll. try it out and don't mess up this time.

[DoctorBadWolf]

/reroll. try it out and don't mess up this time.

Bah! There's no good reason to not have respecs as an option.

[Varr]

Actually, reroll has single handedly kept me engaged in the game the past 18 months or so. I can't imagine having stayed playing the same ten capped toons for so long.....even if I could have made my barr a sorc and my sorc a barbarrian capped and geared for ten bucks a respec. Leveling and gearing is this game to me.

[DoctorBadWolf]

Actually, reroll has single handedly kept me engaged in the game the past 18 months or so. I can't imagine having stayed playing the same ten capped toons for so long.....even if I could have made my barr a sorc and my sorc a barbarrian capped and geared for ten bucks a respec. Leveling and gearing is this game to me.

Fair enough. I don't think Turbine is exactly planning for a repeat of the last year, though. With regular updates, rerolling to save against boredom is less of an issue.

[SableShadow]

Fair enough. I don't think Turbine is exactly planning for a repeat of the last year, though. With regular updates, rerolling to save against boredom is less of an issue.

I don't understand how rerolling to run through the same quests again...and again...and again...is 'content'. To each their own, I suppose.

[Solmage]

My guess is that we will all want to save up our TPs as this could likely be a DDO Store premium feature. And oh will there complaining if they do it that way ...

Not from me. A lot of us have said that if there's one thing in that store we would gladly pay for, is for them to spend the time implementing this so we can buy it.


Not could, will. They specifically said it would be a paid store feature.

Yup.

Also, Eladrins' rather vague statement went something around the lines of being able to completely re-do everything, but he WAS vague and even within the vagueness he added the disclaimer that anything could change.

[DoctorBadWolf]

I don't understand how rerolling to run through the same quests again...and again...and again...is 'content'. To each their own, I suppose.

I'm missing something. What does that have to do with what you quoted?

[vainangel]

/reroll. try it out and don't mess up this time.

agree
if you have to worry about race and level, reroll seems the best bet.
Now changing the skill points and levels taken is good enough for me.

Might not be for the flava of the month players...
;p

[Cendaer]

I highly doubt that race changes or stat changes will be a part of the respec mechanism. If they include those two areas, I would be especially surprised.

I'm expecting respecs to mean re-allocation of class levels and skill points on level-by-level terms, with the possibility of an alignment change at the very beginning of the respec process. In other words: choose to respec, character is reset at lvl 0, choose your level one class and assign skill points (& choose spells if applicable), then you can choose to level up to two, then three, etc., until your experience points are exhausted.

IMO, if you need a race change AND stat point re-allocation in addition to class levels and skill point reallocations along with feat swaps, you should just re-roll, because you obviously NEED to learn how to build characters before you try to play them to end-game levels. I'm just not able to see how even changes made by the devs to the game can justify a respec that goes that deep.

Lastly, I also think that whatever respec there is needs to be tightly constrained and prohibitively expensive in a way (whether it's Turbine Points, dragonshards, gold pieces, phoenix eggs, newborn baby gorgon sacrifices or whatever doesn't matter) that discourages FotM flip-flopping.

They can't let their game become a FotM respec-fest.

[SableShadow]

I'm missing something. What does that have to do with what you quoted?

"rerolling to save against boredom"

When I'm bored, I don't get un-bored rerolling, I go play something else.

But to each their own.

[foxx]

[Lastly, I also think that whatever respec there is needs to be tightly constrained and prohibitively expensive in a way (whether it's Turbine Points, dragonshards, gold pieces, phoenix eggs, newborn baby gorgon sacrifices or whatever doesn't matter) that discourages FotM flip-flopping.

They can't let their game become a FotM respec-fest.[/QUOTE]


personally i think the whole re-spec thing is a waste of valubale dev time,

re roll till ya get it right.

or don't.

[Varr]

Seconded, respec is bad for all sorts of lazy and foolish reasons. I've railed against it in thread after thread........reroll. Can't imagine losing all your mod three loot in a reroll.....the deal with you 98%efficent toon instead of a respeced 100% optimized toon.

No reason to argue this any longer though.....the devs have given in

[DoctorBadWolf]

"rerolling to save against boredom"

When I'm bored, I don't get un-bored rerolling, I go play something else.

But to each their own.

Ah, I see. I think the disconnect was that I didn't intend to suggest that rerolling = content. I was talking about the obviously extant practice of making new toons to try out new builds and such, to avoid growing bored of the game. The context of the comment was that said practice is less prevalent when there is new content available.
Rather than suggesting that rerolling = content, I was stating that content = decrease in number of players rerolling out of boredom, which does happen. A lot.

There was also a pun on saving throws, of course.

[SableShadow]

Ah, I see. I think the disconnect was that I didn't intend to suggest that rerolling = content. I was talking about the obviously extant practice of making new toons to try out new builds and such, to avoid growing bored of the game. The context of the comment was that said practice is less prevalent when there is new content available.
Rather than suggesting that rerolling = content, I was stating that content = decrease in number of players rerolling out of boredom, which does happen. A lot.

There was also a pun on saving throws, of course.

Oh, sure. Yours was simply a convenient hook to toss a threadwide response onto. :)

[DoctorBadWolf]

Oh, sure. Yours was simply a convenient hook to toss a threadwide response onto. :)

Dig it.

[Nataichal]

If people want to spend a lot of money to continuously respec, then by all means let them. However, it is far more likely that an individual will have $10 bucks to pay for a respec than have the time to reroll a character. Or, if the change is minor (I goofed up my first toon's stats, I actually thought clerics might FIGHT some), it might be something people are willing to invest some cash in, but not hundreds of hours.

[Souless]

[Lastly, I also think that whatever respec there is needs to be tightly constrained and prohibitively expensive in a way (whether it's Turbine Points, dragonshards, gold pieces, phoenix eggs, newborn baby gorgon sacrifices or whatever doesn't matter) that discourages FotM flip-flopping.

They can't let their game become a FotM respec-fest.


personally i think the whole re-spec thing is a waste of valubale dev time,

re roll till ya get it right.

or don't.

Why?

And finally, when I made my toon on day-1, And got his first piece of raid loot (the dragon boots, which I still use....ur solution is to just reroll...well part of that optimal build u speak of is GEAR! Gear that i quested hard and tirelessly for. So I say to you....the game has changed (in more ways than 1) and I should have to give up my gear simply because u think i should reroll......pfft...

Thank the GODS respec is comming!!!!!

The Bytcher~

[Ciaran]

Well you can already redo action points but I am suspecting you might have meant Skill points. In the interview I understood that you would be able to go back to zero xp and use what you have earned to relevel. The only thing I didnt remember hearing was stat points and changing alignment.

I'm waaay out of the loop - how did they resolve the concern with not being able to tell when a person ate a +1,2,3 INT tome and therefore being unable to determine how many skill points per level they should actually have?

[Goldeneye]

Yes, character respec should be expensive: like 4,000 Turbine Points, and yes, it should be time consuming, ex: having a 5 month cool-down.

But, if the devs properly implemented full Re-Specs, I think it would be hands-down THE best thing the Dev's have ever done for this game.

The point isn't to turn your wizard into a barbarian, the point is to save your hard-earned character from the waste bin. Many people have worked months, even years to be building up raid completions, gear and more.... however many toons, after a few mods become obsolete and ineffective.

In order to build a new effective character, you need to start again. And that absolutely sucks. I have toons that I have invested hundred of hours into, however because of a few changes in quests, play styles, and mods, they are just sitting in the necropolis holding my collection of +1 xxx of Pure Good weapons. That isn't right. There are very few other games out there that you can permanently break an old character.

[Kistilan]

Bah! There's no good reason to not have respecs as an option.

I agree. I want Turbine to collect real money for this feature. It will help generate real content and be a money sink.

I also think exuberant amounts of plat (millions of plat) could be turned in for TP like 500 TP for a million plat. That would help thin the coffers.

[Kistilan]

Seconded, respec is bad for all sorts of lazy and foolish reasons. I've railed against it in thread after thread........reroll. Can't imagine losing all your mod three loot in a reroll.....the deal with you 98%efficent toon instead of a respeced 100% optimized toon.

No reason to argue this any longer though.....the devs have given in

/signed

But since the devs gave in, I want them to cash in for this feature. I want Turbine to make lots of money in this TP for my ReRoll. THE GREAT CORNHOLIO!

[foxx]

Why?

And finally, when I made my toon on day-1, And got his first piece of raid loot (the dragon boots, which I still use....ur solution is to just reroll...well part of that optimal build u speak of is GEAR! Gear that i quested hard and tirelessly for. So I say to you....the game has changed (in more ways than 1) and I should have to give up my gear simply because u think i should reroll......pfft...

Thank the GODS respec is comming!!!!!

The Bytcher~


well i'm glad those boots are doing it for your gimped 28 point first mistake.

so you don't have a 32 point twink thats beyond the need of those boots?

[DoctorBadWolf]

Yes, character respec should be expensive: like 4,000 Turbine Points, and yes, it should be time consuming, ex: having a 5 month cool-down.

But, if the devs properly implemented full Re-Specs, I think it would be hands-down THE best thing the Dev's have ever done for this game.

The point isn't to turn your wizard into a barbarian, the point is to save your hard-earned character from the waste bin. Many people have worked months, even years to be building up raid completions, gear and more.... however many toons, after a few mods become obsolete and ineffective.

In order to build a new effective character, you need to start again. And that absolutely sucks. I have toons that I have invested hundred of hours into, however because of a few changes in quests, play styles, and mods, they are just sitting in the necropolis holding my collection of +1 xxx of Pure Good weapons. That isn't right. There are very few other games out there that you can permanently break an old character.

Wha? 4k TP? 5 month cooldown? Are you nuts? It would rarely, if ever be used, and thus would make turbine almost no money, ever. It absolutely should not be prohibitively expensive. Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with making it exclusively tied to the store. You should be able to earn a respec with favor.

Respecs shouldn't cost much more than opening one of the races or classes, if not less. It's a one time benefit to one character, and he amount of money it makes for turbine will increase with it's availability, so long as the price isn't absurdly low. If it costs 600 tp, it will be used frequently enough to be very profitable. If it costs 4k tp, relatively few people will ever use it.

[Kistilan]

Wha? 4k TP? 5 month cooldown? Are you nuts? It would rarely, if ever be used, and thus would make turbine almost no money, ever. It absolutely should not be prohibitively expensive. Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with making it exclusively tied to the store. You should be able to earn a respec with favor.

Respecs shouldn't cost much more than opening one of the races or classes, if not less. It's a one time benefit to one character, and he amount of money it makes for turbine will increase with it's availability, so long as the price isn't absurdly low. If it costs 600 tp, it will be used frequently enough to be very profitable. If it costs 4k tp, relatively few people will ever use it.

/notsigned

These are all random numbers. Although 600 is likely an easy-to-cope-with number, it isn't on par with opening a race or class (pending on what is allowed with the respec). If partial vs full monty-haul respec, then yes costs should differ.

A mini-respec or partial-respec 400-600 TP would make sense. Altering your character levels, skill pts, etc and up to say 5 levels (out of the 20 levels you have) plus obviously the enhancements.

1-4K TP for a full-blown respec (stats, race, class, etc) keeping all gear & relevelling to the original level (levels 1-5 1K, 6-11 2K, 12-16 3K, 17-20 4K). The value saved here is in the time & the equipment the player is keeping.

I'm fairly certain many users would still utilize it at a TP-K price. Also, with a parital-respec the users that don't need a monty-haul respec can get by on a marginal price (but won't be changing their original stats, original level, race, etc and will only be able to swop out up to 5 levels).

Again, as many have stated, we have no idea what Turbine is actually going to program as the "respec," so we can't really price it as we don't know the total benefits.

[DoctorBadWolf]

/notsigned

These are all random numbers. Although 600 is likely an easy-to-cope-with number, it isn't on par with opening a race or class (pending on what is allowed with the respec). If partial vs full monty-haul respec, then yes costs should differ.

A mini-respec or partial-respec 400-600 TP would make sense. Altering your character levels, skill pts, etc and up to say 5 levels (out of the 20 levels you have) plus obviously the enhancements.

1-4K TP for a full-blown respec (stats, race, class, etc) keeping all gear & relevelling to the original level (levels 1-5 1K, 6-11 2K, 12-16 3K, 17-20 4K). The value saved here is in the time & the equipment the player is keeping.

I'm fairly certain many users would still utilize it at a TP-K price. Also, with a parital-respec the users that don't need a monty-haul respec can get by on a marginal price (but won't be changing their original stats, original level, race, etc and will only be able to swop out up to 5 levels).

Again, as many have stated, we have no idea what Turbine is actually going to program as the "respec," so we can't really price it as we don't know the total benefits.

I still don't understand why you think a full respec should be so expensive. Note: I don't really think you're going to be able to change race and such. Drow costs 700 something TP in the store. That is a purchase that benefits your entire account, for the life of the game. You can make a drow on every server, in unlimited numbers(within the limits of how many toons you can make irrespective of what they are.) for as long as the game keeps running. Why should a one time benefit to one character on one server cost more than that?
also, why should any respec be limited to 5 levels? It would seem to me that a more reasonable limitation would be in whether or not you can change your race, starting class and/or starting stats. 5 level limit seems like it would require more programming than it would give benefit.

EDIT: Also, seriously, what's with the 5 month cooldown? What possible benefit does that give to anyone?

[Draclaud]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/resetspin.gif

A respec would be nice. I'll bet you a Candy Cane we won't see it before 2011

[DoctorBadWolf]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/resetspin.gif

A respec would be nice. I'll bet you a Candy Cane we won't see it before 2011

I'll take that bet. :P

[foxx]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/resetspin.gif

A respec would be nice. I'll bet you a Candy Cane we won't see it before 2011



heh heh, that prolly a good bet.

[transtemporal]

I think the path of least resistance from a functionality perspective would be to simply create a new toon from scratch but grant it whatever xp the previous character had when you respecced. No class, race, appearance, no quest completions, no slayer, no raid timers, no favor, no tomes, default gear. Dump the toon on korthos beach and let you go find the trainers to level up.

In other words, a new toon in every sense except XP.

Heres how it might work - select the toon on the character selection screen, click the "buy respec" button (above or below the "buy new character slot") which takes you to the store to buy the respec. When you click on "order" it displays a warning, then shows the same confirmation as for deleting a toon; e.g. type the name. Clicking OK in the confirmation box takes you directly into the character creation screen (maybe with some kind of explicit note to say "look! heres all your xp, go find a trainer!"). Then return you to the character selection screen as it does currently when you create a new toon.

I'm not saying this is the ideal solution by any means, but I think it represents the least functionality you could build and call it a respec. And less functionality means less development time.

Or you could take the comparison approach - take the WoW respec offering and build something just a little bit better. :)

[DoctorBadWolf]

I think the path of least resistance from a functionality perspective would be to simply create a new toon from scratch but grant it whatever xp the previous character had when you respecced. No class, race, appearance, no quest completions, no slayer, no raid timers, no favor, no tomes, default gear. Dump the toon on korthos beach and let you go find the trainers to level up.

In other words, a new toon in every sense except XP.

Heres how it might work - select the toon on the character selection screen, click the "buy respec" button (above or below the "buy new character slot") which takes you to the store to buy the respec. When you click on "order" it displays a warning, then shows the same confirmation as for deleting a toon; e.g. type the name. Clicking OK in the confirmation box takes you directly into the character creation screen (maybe with some kind of explicit note to say "look! heres all your xp, go find a trainer!"). Then return you to the character selection screen as it does currently when you create a new toon.

I'm not saying this is the ideal solution by any means, but I think it represents the least functionality you could build and call it a respec. And less functionality means less development time.

Or you could take the comparison approach - take the WoW respec offering and build something just a little bit better. :)

That would certainly represent the most barebones option, but I don't think that also transfering resources from the old character to the new would represent a significant added effort.

[transtemporal]

That would certainly represent the most barebones option

I think it covers off about 70% of the players requirements for a respec mechanism with the base requirement being: "I can level my character up to the level he/she previously was and retain any XP earned" while representing the least development effort.

Its also covers off the flexibility requirement; e.g. "I can change anything about my toon that I originally stuffed up - name, race, appearance, class, stats, skills as well as all subsequent class, skill, ability increase, feat, enhancement choices".

To my mind, any respec mechanism must cover off those 2 requirements at the very least. If it doesn't, its a failure.

The other 30% is stuff like retaining tomes used, upgrading a toon from original 28pt to 32pt, retaining gear, retaining favor, retaining quest completions etc etc. I would submit that these are icing on the cake and note that some people really like icing on their cake. I do, for example. :-)


I don't think that also transfering resources from the old character to the new would represent a significant added effort.

The more functionality you add, the longer it takes and in my experience, those small pieces of functionality add up very quickly.

[DoctorBadWolf]

I think it covers off about 70% of the players requirements for a respec mechanism with the base requirement being: "I can level my character up to the level he/she previously was and retain any XP earned" while representing the least development effort.

Its also covers off the flexibility requirement; e.g. "I can change anything about my toon that I originally stuffed up - name, race, appearance, class, stats, skills as well as all subsequent class, skill, ability increase, feat, enhancement choices".

To my mind, any respec mechanism must cover off those 2 requirements at the very least. If it doesn't, its a failure.

The other 30% is stuff like retaining tomes used, upgrading a toon from original 28pt to 32pt, retaining gear, retaining favor, retaining quest completions etc etc. I would submit that these are icing on the cake and note that some people really like icing on their cake. I do, for example. :-)



The more functionality you add, the longer it takes and in my experience, those small pieces of functionality add up very quickly.

Honestly I think the most elegent, and satisfactory options are either to simply delevel back to one, while retaining xp, so that the character must take each level again, or to transfer all resources and information to a new character with the same name and give the new character the amount of xp upon creation that the old character had at respec. basically a copy paste of everything but the character itself.

[transtemporal]

Honestly I think the most elegent, and satisfactory options are either to simply delevel back to one, while retaining xp, so that the character must take each level again, or to transfer all resources and information to a new character with the same name and give the new character the amount of xp upon creation that the old character had at respec. basically a copy paste of everything but the character itself.

If "revert to one" is the option tabled (with all the implications of name, race, class, stats, skills etc unchangebale), I think it would be acceptable but its not the best of all possible worlds, either from the player perspective OR the dev perspective.

On the player side, you're stuck with your race, stats and first class choice. So if you wanted to change any of those things, respec isn't useful to you... which is a pity because race and stats are the most commonly requested respec options. The "revert to one" solution wouldn't allow that.

On the dev side (unless what I've inferred from dev posts is incorrect), DDO doesn't remember the levelling history of your character so simply reverting to a previous "snapshot" of your character isn't possible. So how they would determine what your character was at 1st level, I'm not sure. Maybe they would programmatically derive it. Ugh. I would not want to be responsible for that development.

Whereas, its much simpler to look at the end state of the character (DDO may not know the characters in-between states but it does know about the end state) and grant those attributes to a new character. Its not as simple as a cut and paste, but its far simpler than "devolving" a character.