I'm getting tired of not being able to solo...

[LeCutter]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.

What you guys have for content is great but it's not good to anyone if they can't run it by themselves when they want or need to. This is probably the single biggest limiting factor of the game and the main reason why DDO is not a major commercial success - than and the need to get new content out on a regular basis. You won't see me hanging around for a year giving you money for nothing. You need to retool a lot of these quests, not just so people can solo them, but party quests too.

I look at my adventure compendium for stuff I haven't done - for favor for my 32 pointer, very bad decision/implementation of that btw - I advertise for it and no one wants to do it because the XP/loot isn't good enough relative to the difficulty and length of XYZ quest. Yet I'm inundated all day long with requests to come to Gianthold - so much so that I have to go anon a lot of the time. That's just silly. What's the point of having a pile of content no one wants to run? This should be raising red flags for you guys. Alarm bells should be ringing. Say what you want about WoW, love it or hate it, but being able to solo and party when and where you like is the reason they have 12 million people and every other MOG is lucky to have 100k plus.

Don't get me wrong, I really like DDO, and I like Turbine, but after a month into the game now I'm starting to see these glaring issues. It's stuff like this that will keep people from (re)subbing. Being forced to wait around and do stuff you don't really want to do isn't fun. And like the man said, it's not so bad to have some fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place? It's like James Woods said in Family Guy, 'Well that sounds like a "fun time", Peter. Tell me, where exactly does James Woods fit into the "fun time"?'

[KKDragonLord]

Rejoice! Mod 9 has Dungeon Scaling, a specific solution to that exact problem.

[Furbitor]

relax!!

My level 20 monk was soloing the new content on lama-land....

It should be easier now...

Also try not "blowing" thru your mana so fast.. if you want to be a killing machine.. your primary weapon isnt going to be your mana bar.

Learn to love weapons and control agro.. then you will have mana to spare.

[Lerincho]

For only being in the game 2 months, little too early to throw in the towel if you were giving the game a legit shot at winning your business. Want an easy button, go play WoW.

[Raegoul]

Get over it!

Soloing is not as important as you think it is. There are plenty of single player games out there go play them. This is an MMO not a single player game.

By the way if you have the time and the resources soloing is not that hard. There are plenty of consumables that can get you through a quest past level 6. And with the shop coming you can buy your way through soloing.

The REAL joy of this game is playing with friends and that is what DDO is all about. If you have not figured that out maybe it is time you looked to making some friends.

[Trilby]

When I first started playing DDO, I was put off by the fact that grouping was such an emphasis. But it forced me to find a good guild. Then I made a lot of friends, and now I would rather group with those friends than solo most of the time. DDO is a unique MMO in that you don't have to do all slayer to level. You go through intricate dungeons with traps and puzzles. So, I guess it all comes down to the type of player a person is. If you do indeed prefer to solo for the most part, then this game just isn't going to suit you. I think it just takes time to get to know people and get into the groove. Give it some more time, and good luck!

[foxx]

try completeing raids, first,
learn to play well with others,
rinse and repeat for a year,
twink a couple re rolls, rinse and repeat.

now try soloing.
it's ok to be a noob, we all were once.
but whining about, not alowed <GRIN>

[Delt]

BLAH

As a cleric, you shouldn't have any trouble soloing 90% of the non-raid game with the proper know-how. As a new player, you lack the know-how.

Blade Barrier, Destruct, Banish, some cc and a stack of heal scrolls and you have all the tools you need. So stick with it...or don't. /shrug

As for the forced grouping slant, I probably agree. It gets better in mod 9 and has gotten better each mod. The solo content should have been included when the game went retail...if it had been, I bet DDO would have had a much healthier last 3 years.

[markymarksta]

Op said 'Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun'

Try Quickened/Maximised/Empowered/Extended Blade barrier! The most efficient way to kill many mobs on a cleric.

Soon you will get the spell 'destruction' for taking out single targets.

These two spells are the best to use when soloing on a cleric.

[Samadhi]

It's already been said, but ya, a lvl 13 cleric is a very good build to solo most content with. Blade Barrier FTW. Pick up quicken and maximize if you do not have them yet and you are good to go.


And sorry but if 30 AC was meaningful that late in the game there would be some serious game imbalances.

[Zenako]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.
'

Ok, what is remotely fun or efficient in your mind? My clerics have all spent considerable time soloing, almost every quest in the game that is suitable that is. Just a general cleric, now with some raid gear, but mostly just stuff from along the way.
Keep in mind, that with GAME KNOWLEDGE I can KNOW what works well and what does not work well. I take level 11 clerics out into the desert and have at it. Still looking for a few rares on that one. You need to develop suitable tactics for when running solo, and those tactics are decidedly different than when running with a group. You might need to alter your spell mix as well.

30 AC, ok, but is that with a Shield? Are you using Potency Items to boost the power of your spells? How about various clickies and such? The Gnolls in the desert are among the BEST and deadly archers in the game and can put a hurt on almost anyone. Do you sneak up close to body pull a few away at a time, or just wade into the mess of them at once? 30 AC is far from enough to work that tactic. (A level 11 fighter with 45-50 AC can pull it off, I know, but the difference between 45 and 30 is huge from a surviveablitity standpoint.

As for Axtaria's Haven, not sure what would really give you a problem there, when you play smart as a solo player. The monkeyboys might Feeblemind you, the dogs and Razorcats could trip you, but that is about it.

Whatever...95% of the game is soloable with most builds as long as the player has the knowledge needed to pull it off. Even Raids can be soloed, albeit at great cost usually and often only with certain builds.

[Leyoni]

beyond level 6.

Since this is a group focused game and not solo focused I don't see the problem. That you have a L13 cleric and don't have the AC or insight into the game to run > L6 quests w/o dying, however, tells me where the problem is.

Frankly, you should just quit and go somewhere else....

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Amazing how much Turbine's stance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dDBrxAySA)on soloing has changed over time. ;)

[baflin_haverstaff]

I can agree with the OP when it comes down to soloing. I keep working on toons that can go rambo when they can. What it boils down to is haveing the plat to keep all those wands and pots in your back pack. I love to solo but I do get the frustration from being mobbed to death when that are below my levels. Used to be if you had a vorpal you could really tear them up but think that was nerfed years ago. Nowadays your gotta go wf it seems like to have a viable soloer. But your gonna hit the glass ceiling sometime and thats that. :mad:

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

The dungeon scaling feature coming in a couple weeks will help this issue alot. Hang in there!

[Zenako]

A good soloer can be many different things. Almost any caster can solo with relative ease. A melee has to work on things differently. I have run a solo fighter thru a quest like Redwillow and not have to use a single Potion of healing. How? The character has very good AC, and swaps weapons a lot. Using a nice Bodyfeeder weapon can keep you ahead of the damage game with those 15 Temporary HP all the time. Hit an Aid Clickies before bigger fights for another 13 HP. Wear some DR as well to soften the blows. Move and dodge and what not.

Now I will admit that at the highest levels the Damage per hit from mobs can overwhelm simple reductions like that, but then, you need to be using attacks the reduce those things, like starting off with Weakening on the mobs you are fighting, or you trip them, or whatever.

Just standing toe to toe in a slugathon is a losing proposition unless you are willing to burn a boatload of resources doing so (and some are and do).

And don't forget ranged attacks...they can really be useful in many many circumstances where face to face melee is a losing proposition.

[Thanimal]

When I first started playing DDO, I was put off by the fact that grouping was such an emphasis. But it forced me to find a good guild. Then I made a lot of friends, and now I would rather group with those friends than solo most of the time. DDO is a unique MMO in that you don't have to do all slayer to level. You go through intricate dungeons with traps and puzzles. So, I guess it all comes down to the type of player a person is. If you do indeed prefer to solo for the most part, then this game just isn't going to suit you. I think it just takes time to get to know people and get into the groove. Give it some more time, and good luck!

Incredibly well stated. +1 rep.

[redoubt]

try completeing raids, first,
learn to play well with others,
rinse and repeat for a year,
twink a couple re rolls, rinse and repeat.

now try soloing.
it's ok to be a noob, we all were once.
but whining about, not alowed <GRIN>

bingo. its a group game. Always was, and always should be.

[Strakeln]

Rejoice! Mod 9 has Dungeon Scaling, a specific solution to that exact problem.Correct.

Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.

Dungeon scaling should be an option for a party leader. Or better yet, it should be taken out back and shot. Then set afire, run over, drowned, hung, decapitated, castrated, burned again for good measure, and then launched into space aboard a craft with a 1-way ticket to the sun.

Just for good measure.

[GlassCannon]

Correct.

Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.

Dungeon scaling should be an option for a party leader.

I think Democracy is the best solution. Then again, some groups don't care.

Dungeon Scaling ought to be a tandem of the UI panel setting with the Dungeon Difficulty setting. If the UI setting is incompatible with a party's specific goal, an (Error): Your difficulty setting is lower than the party's difficulty setting. message ought to appear to either opt you to correct the UI setting, or to find another group/form your own group.

Some of us like a challenge, some of us just want to kill something. Some of us want challenge sometimes but not always. Some of us are impatient, fickle, and egocentric. Still others are tired from a long week and just can't handle the regular difficulty, so need to back it off a bit.


Some of us joined a group and got stuck with Point as an Assassin. Some of us are wishing the Cleric would actually use that blue bar. Some of us are tired of literally hauling others through a dungeon kicking and screaming, at great expense to our personal stores of plat and potions. Some of us do this very thing, with only infrequent interruption by actually competent party members, for over half of our character's career.

[Wezlin]

Correct.

Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.

Dungeon scaling should be an option for a party leader. Or better yet, it should be taken out back and shot. Then set afire, run over, drowned, hung, decapitated, castrated, burned again for good measure, and then launched into space aboard a craft with a 1-way ticket to the sun.

Just for good measure.

/signed

I remember when I used to solo for the fun of the challenge....... Now I have to add 5 gimps to my group for the challenge

at least elite will be an option though

[EinarMal]

Correct.

Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.

Dungeon scaling should be an option for a party leader. Or better yet, it should be taken out back and shot. Then set afire, run over, drowned, hung, decapitated, castrated, burned again for good measure, and then launched into space aboard a craft with a 1-way ticket to the sun.

Just for good measure.

How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....

Honestly I feel sorry for new people who post on these boards. One would think with the comments of "leave" or "this game is not for you" that DDO is such a smash hit we can just turn people away. :rolleyes:

A game that does not allow for people to solo is a dead/dying game that is why Turbine's stance has changed they made a very poor decision up front that has cost them big time and now they are stuck with the last ditch f2p effort with added soloing features.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....

Honestly I feel sorry for new people who post on these boards. One would think with the comments of "leave" or "this game is not for you" that DDO is such a smash hit we can just turn people away. :rolleyes:

A game that does not allow for people to solo is a dead/dying game that is why Turbine's stance has changed they made a very poor decision up front that has cost them big time and now they are stuck with the last ditch f2p effort with added soloing features.

Nicely said. rep for you :)

[pentara]

try completeing raids, first,
learn to play well with others,
rinse and repeat for a year,
twink a couple re rolls, rinse and repeat.

now try soloing.
it's ok to be a noob, we all were once.
but whining about, not alowed <GRIN>

what he said

[Arvess]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dDBrxAySA

My Monk, Ranger didn't have much problem soloing what she needed to solo. 6-10 is a tough range to solo in unless you have good gear. But once you get past that, its pretty fun and efficient.

[Qzipoun]

This thread makes me sad :(

I recently picked up the game again and rolled a solo-only build since I do not have the time to play the way I used to. The character is untwinked and has never been in a party. I ran quests only once for each difficulty and didn't grind for xp or loot etc... I've never had as much fun playing the game.

People keep saying that if you don't want dungeon scaling then you should just run elite. Sorry but that misses the point completely. My very unsolo-friendly ranger should NOT be able to solo a level 9 quest on elite right off the bat. As it stands on the live servers, I expect to succeed on my first try on normal and usually on hard too (depending on the quest) but I need to do everything in my power to solo a quest successfully on elite (if I have to recall I usually give up or start over). With the new system it will be a child's play for normal and hard. Two thirds of the fun is trying to succeed on normal and hard, they're meant to prepare you for elite not just run through and hit a huge difficulty wall later, why should I just jump to Elite because other people don't know how to play properly.

And yes, the issue here is not that the game is hard but that people don't know how to play it. Half my character's gear is khortos gear, she's running around with perma-featherfall and perma-underwaterAction because I haven't found anything better for those slots, no dex/con item and uses a +2 shield and +3 mithral bp (I got lucky!) and NO protection item... I have yet to buy a SINGLE consumable, whether it is potion or wands or whatever, just used what I picked up along the way for 9 levels now. Let me just repeat that, I haven't bought a single consumable for 9 levels, all solo.

Solo scaling is fine for those who don't want to group and are new to the game (I don't agree with the play style but I don't care). That said, I don't see why two thirds of the game should be made ridiculously unchallenging for the rest of us...

Edit: I've never had this much fun in DDO but unfortunately, dungeon scaling, dungeon alerts and grazing hits will kill the game for me :(

[mediocresurgeon]

Friends don't let friends play solo.

Find a group of players with similar interests (most likely things like "getting XP" or "getting X item" or "flagging for X raid"). Join their group. Since any one character can rarely (a) heal, (b) survive enemy attacks, and (c) kill enemies all at the same time, usually these tasks are split up among the characters within the group. This is known as "partying." All individual characters within the group benefit through things such as the exchange of ideas (tactics, builds, jokes, general chit-chat), increase in character wealth ("Hey, can I have that wand you just picked up?") and character power ("Whoo hoo! We just did The Crucible on elite and got 30k XP!").

Soloing only has disadvantages. There is nobody there to heal you, kill monsters for you, or take enemy aggro. You have nobody to talk to. There is less loot in chests, since you cannot trade items or ask for other people's drops. If you do not know the area, your build, or gameplay in general you can become lost, confused, upset, or dead. I fail to see how "soloing" contributes anything to the game.

If you are tired of not being able to solo, join a group!

[Ranmaru2]

A lot of the problem with doing favor runs is that a lot of the newer population won't know the quests you're wanting to do. There are some quests that are fun to do, but people don't want to run them.

But as far as not being able to solo with your character, I would give a few tips:

Carry a shield with you and a weapon to swap to that you feel will fit your style. You can always use one of the cleric tenants to give you proficiency with a weapon. Heroism potions are also available to help your to-hit.
Shield of Faith + Barkskin (+3) potions can help push your AC to a decent level to solo most of the older content. Add in Recitation and Haste with a full plate/leather armor (not sure the statistical layout of your character) and you can hit mid 40s rather easily. As you progress and do some raids you can get better gear to help push up the AC of your character.
Utilize the environment to your advantage. Utilize choke points so that you'll only be dealing with one to a few mobs at a time if you're going to enter into melee. Natural boxes in a quest are great to climb up on to deal with only one to two mobs at a time since they might be too fat to fit up there or won't be able to reach you. It's ok to put your back up against a wall when fighting multiple mobs, this will negate the -2 AC flanking bonus you get when a mob goes behind you.
Even though it gives you a -4 to hit, moving in combat when you're soloing is your best friend in the whole world. I always put this in my bio and it's possibly the greatest revelation people can have with this game, "You can move in combat for a reason in this game, LEARN TO DODGE!" Again, that's how it appears in my bio, but the advice of learning to time enemy attacks and your own can go a long way to helping you survive on your own.


Friends don't let friends play solo.

Find a group of players with similar interests (most likely things like "getting XP" or "getting X item" or "flagging for X raid"). Join their group. Since any one character can rarely (a) heal, (b) survive enemy attacks, and (c) kill enemies all at the same time, usually these tasks are split up among the characters within the group. This is known as "partying." All individual characters within the group benefit through things such as the exchange of ideas (tactics, builds, jokes, general chit-chat), increase in character wealth ("Hey, can I have that wand you just picked up?") and character power ("Whoo hoo! We just did The Crucible on elite and got 30k XP!").

Soloing only has disadvantages. There is nobody there to heal you, kill monsters for you, or take enemy aggro. You have nobody to talk to. There is less loot in chests, since you cannot trade items or ask for other people's drops. If you do not know the area, your build, or gameplay in general you can become lost, confused, upset, or dead. I fail to see how "soloing" contributes anything to the game.

If you are tired of not being able to solo, join a group!

I take offense to this, as I can do all of these things when soloing :D If anything soloing helps you realize more things about your build/own playing abilities than playing in a party (or with a crutch). Solo skills help make better players if you ask me.

[KKDragonLord]

Correct.

Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.

Dungeon scaling should be an option for a party leader. Or better yet, it should be taken out back and shot. Then set afire, run over, drowned, hung, decapitated, castrated, burned again for good measure, and then launched into space aboard a craft with a 1-way ticket to the sun.

Just for good measure.

Agreed, i loved soloing on my pally, now Dungeon Scaling will ruin most of my fun. It used to be something difficult and rewarding at the same time, now its just cheesy. I don't regret it much though, after lvl 8 i couldn't solo much anymore on my 28pt full pally and i started joining groups, and these days most of what i do require a group so it doesn't matter that much. Its just sad the new people won't have the choice to run solo on Norm and learn to be resourceful by themselves because the new soloing will be too easy. Instead, when they start doing group quests they will think "wow, these monsters are way too hard, i thought i could take them all by myself, grouping is not so good at all"

[LeCutter]

Wow, some community you have here. Most people just replying with rudeness or outright hostility along the lines of 'F-off and go play WoW than!' Couple that with the fact that no one seems to have actually fully read my post in any case .


try completeing raids, first,
learn to play well with others,
rinse and repeat for a year,
twink a couple re rolls, rinse and repeat.

now try soloing.
it's ok to be a noob, we all were once.
but whining about, not alowed <GRIN>

Precisely what I, and most casual players want to avoid. I don't have a problem with grouping, I just don't always have the time or desire to do so, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

Maybe you hardcore DDO people have no lives, but most of us do. We don't have the desire/time/inclination to spend a year being forced to group, raiding, twinking, re-building characters - if and when you grind a 32pt build - all just to do some soloing when we want/need to. Maybe you equate being forced to group and grind as fun but most people don't - hence one of the reasons that DDO is a niche game. The game has massive potential, but you can't play potential.

Seeing as I've already paid for it, I'll give the new dungeon scaling a shot, but perhaps you're right, maybe this game isn't for me...seeing as I have a life and all.

[Uska]

Not truly meant to be a solo game but with scaling, hirelings and the store its much easier then it was, me I want more things to encourage grouping and discourging solo play but thats me.

[Aranticus]

running with devils, L16 quest - solo

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/Aranticus/ScreenShot00004.jpg

this is just an example to show that stuff can be soloed. there are already players who have soloed the end game raids but like what a lot of players mentioned, if you dun have the experience, you will find it hard to solo

[Uska]

running with devils, L16 quest - solo

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/Aranticus/ScreenShot00004.jpg

this is just an example to show that stuff can be soloed. there are already players who have soloed the end game raids but like what a lot of players mentioned, if you dun have the experience, you will find it hard to solo

ya big show off:)

[Strakeln]

How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....

Honestly I feel sorry for new people who post on these boards. One would think with the comments of "leave" or "this game is not for you" that DDO is such a smash hit we can just turn people away. :rolleyes:

A game that does not allow for people to solo is a dead/dying game that is why Turbine's stance has changed they made a very poor decision up front that has cost them big time and now they are stuck with the last ditch f2p effort with added soloing features.
They're satisfying one group at the expense of another, when all it would take to satisfy both groups would be to provide the option to disable dungeon scaling.

...yet you support the solution that satisfies your wants to the detriment of others, when many perfectly viable and easily implemented solutions are readily available? That seems a rather pigheaded approach to take, wouldn't you say?

[Strakeln]

How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....
Isn't the answer obvious? Here, I'll provide you with two examples of players that will be affected by this:

1) The explorer. People like Lorichie. I stepped outside to the vale while on Llammaland and almost spit my drink out at how ridiculously easy everything was. Last time I checked, there was no elite setting for explorer areas.

2) The soloist. Kinda hard to open elite when you need to run normal and hard first. Not to mention, many soloists aim to solo the game on normal first... essentially, doing what the average party of 4-6 could do. Now the dungeon will automatically be put on "ultra-easy" mode for them, like it or not.

[Krell]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia....[snip]

Some good points. I do agree that the ability to solo would add to the game and the playerbase. In other games I played, I spent many hours killing creatures solo for xp and loot. I also had guilds and spent a good portion of my time in groups, but having that option gave me more to do. That being said, DDO was designed to be a grouping game, much like the D&D game. Other Turbine games are more friendly for soloing. I wouldn't count a lot of changes to the solo game in the near future.

[Uska]

They're satisfying one group at the expense of another, when all it would take to satisfy both groups would be to provide the option to disable dungeon scaling.

...yet you support the solution that satisfies your wants to the detriment of others, when many perfectly viable and easily implemented solutions are readily available? That seems a rather pigheaded approach to take, wouldn't you say?

I to support a toggle for scaling for those that want it, if you want to scale fine do it if you want more of a challenge then go for it but to make it easier for the devs I think the xp should be the same either way, after all its the players calling for the challenge.

[Uska]

Isn't the answer obvious? Here, I'll provide you with two examples of players that will be affected by this:

1) The explorer. People like Lorichie. I stepped outside to the vale while on Llammaland and almost spit my drink out at how ridiculously easy everything was. Last time I checked, there was no elite setting for explorer areas.

2) The soloist. Kinda hard to open elite when you need to run normal and hard first. Not to mention, many soloists aim to solo the game on normal first... essentially, doing what the average party of 4-6 could do. Now the dungeon will automatically be put on "ultra-easy" mode for them, like it or not.

I thiink VIP's can start on hard begining mod 9 not perfect but at least you can skip normal

[Braegan]

Wow, some community you have here. Most people just replying with rudeness or outright hostility along the lines of 'F-off and go play WoW than!' Couple that with the fact that no one seems to have actually fully read my post in any case .



Precisely what I, and most casual players want to avoid. I don't have a problem with grouping, I just don't always have the time or desire to do so, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

Maybe you hardcore DDO people have no lives, but most of us do. We don't have the desire/time/inclination to spend a year being forced to group, raiding, twinking, re-building characters - if and when you grind a 32pt build - all just to do some soloing when we want/need to. Maybe you equate being forced to group and grind as fun but most people don't - hence one of the reasons that DDO is a niche game. The game has massive potential, but you can't play potential.

Seeing as I've already paid for it, I'll give the new dungeon scaling a shot, but perhaps you're right, maybe this game isn't for me...seeing as I have a life and all.

I am thinking you got some backlash due to your new-ness and already willing to quit on a game that was not meant (in pnp as well as DDO) to not be a solo game and failing at it.

I personally don't understand why you would play an MMO and not want to mingle, it is part of it. Otherwise I would play NWN. The people that play this game are hands down some of the coolest, finest folk you will meet in any MMO. But trash talking as a "newbie" won't curry much favor, nor will playing the game as it wasn't intended by its original founders. If you are hell-bent on solo, then do it! Make a class combo that can! But crying that your one character found difficulty in what is meant to be an area for 6 party members makes you sound lame. Yes it is tough to solo as it should be. You are doing the job of six people. I really don't understand why you see that as something out of the ordinary that the quest would be difficult all by yourself.

[RickSun]

The new release on 9/1 will make soloing much easier.
There is scaling for parties of 1 to 3 on Normal and Hard.
There is bonus XP for no deaths and no re entries.
There are 8 new lvl 3 and lvl 4 quests.
There are Hirelings, crucial for example in part 2 of Delera to pull a switch.
There is no longer an XP penalty for being 1 level over the quest level.
Waterworks Slayer and Searing Heights Explorer have been given higher levels so you can get full credit with higher level characters.
The end battle of STK has been reworked so as to be soloable.
+1 Tomes are available in the DDO store at reasonable prices.
XP and Loot boosts are available in the DDO store at reasonable prices.
The Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds now regenerates without resting becoming an important cushion to your overall healing (if you can use it).
There are new collectibles called Eberron Dragonshard Fragments which although very uncommon, can give you XP boosts among other possible rewards.
The Desert hasn't changed, but it can be soloed by Paladins, Clerics, and Monks for sure and probably by many other classes (Sorcerer with one lvl of Bard works for sure too).
Ataraxia hasn't changed except for the nice spa and can also be soloed by the above.
I have been playing DDO for over two years, sometimes in groups, sometimes solo. I am NOT a fast track end game player. I intend to make a Favored Soul with the new version and play it mostly solo as far as I can go with it.
The people who tell OP this is not the game for OP offer poor advice. I don't blame you for not wanting to play with them.
By the way, you folks who think Normal is too easy now can skip Normal. The new version lets you open Hard without completing Normal.

[FluffyCalico]

The new release on 9/1 will make soloing much easier.
There is scaling for parties of 1 to 3 on Normal and Hard.
There is bonus XP for no deaths and no re entries.
There are 8 new lvl 3 and lvl 4 quests.
There is no longer an XP penalty for being 1 level over the quest level.
Waterworks Slayer and Searing Heights Explorer have been given higher levels so you can get full credit with higher level characters.
The end battle of STK has been reworked so as to be soloable.
XP and Loot boosts are available in the DDO store at reasonable prices.
.

1) The game was never supposed to have solo for anything, you weren't even supposed to be able to get into most of them solo. They gave into whiners. They even gave an interview with the designer that said solo is not in the spirit of DnD or DDO
2) There doesn't need to be scaling, this is just a setup for disaster when people used to having it as a crutch do a raid or elite quest which don't scale
3) There are better ways to make the capstone for clerics useful
4) There was no shortage of level 3-4 quests. I mean hell most people Do WW n/n/n/h/e starting at 1 then go level hit STK and tangel and poof are ready for delaris and SC already.
5) Most quests are a joke at level we don't need to be able to do them over level.
6) People complete WW slayer at 1 or at least by level 2. Last thing we need is to be able to do it at 5 or 6.
7) STK end boss is soloable already they are just taking a good quest chain many people love and ruining it
8) Yes insert card to level faster or get +1 loot thats a great thing to add :(

[Purgatory]

relax!!



Also try not "blowing" thru your mana so fast.. if you want to be a killing machine.. your primary weapon isnt going to be your mana bar.

Learn to love weapons and control agro.. then you will have mana to spare.

worng, he is a clr he has the most powerful spels in the game for soloing use your sp for killing and scroll for healing

it faster more efficent to drop a max emp extended bb right after you grabed a ton of mobs to lead them to there deaths. This tactic works so good you can bring lvl 13 clr into the vale and orchard much higher lvl area then ones u been doing and get ton loot and xp in the progress all while soloing.

[EinarMal]

Isn't the answer obvious? Here, I'll provide you with two examples of players that will be affected by this:

1) The explorer. People like Lorichie. I stepped outside to the vale while on Llammaland and almost spit my drink out at how ridiculously easy everything was. Last time I checked, there was no elite setting for explorer areas.

2) The soloist. Kinda hard to open elite when you need to run normal and hard first. Not to mention, many soloists aim to solo the game on normal first... essentially, doing what the average party of 4-6 could do. Now the dungeon will automatically be put on "ultra-easy" mode for them, like it or not.

So open the quest on hard, solo three levels above your level...etc...

They also are doing a BETA test and you are comparing that to a LIVE game you have not played. They also can easily adjust scaling to make it an appropriate challenge. As usual everyone is just overacting to something that isn't even live yet, and will likely evolve a lot over the first few months.

[FluffyCalico]

So open the quest on hard, solo three levels above your level...etc...

They also are doing a BETA test and you are comparing that to a LIVE game you have not played. They also can easily adjust scaling to make it an appropriate challenge. As usual everyone is just overacting to something that isn't even live yet, and will likely evolve a lot over the first few months.

1) How do you open an explorer area on hard?

2) I often do quests 3-5 levels above me. I have no desire to Delaris and SC at level 3.

[EinarMal]

1) How do you open an explorer area on hard?

2) I often do quests 3-5 levels above me. I have no desire to Delaris and SC at level 3.

Again they are already adjusting the difficulty from BETA from what they originally had. Maybe it is better for you to not play games in BETA since you don't seem to understand what that means.

If you are so uber then run them naked with fists....and solo SC at level 3 that way. Should be a challenge.

[jmonty]

As a cleric, you shouldn't have any trouble soloing 90% of the non-raid game with the proper know-how. As a new player, you lack the know-how.

Blade Barrier, Destruct, Banish, some cc and a stack of heal scrolls and you have all the tools you need. So stick with it...or don't. /shrug


this.

OP: you're doing it wrong

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Wow, some community you have here. Most people just replying with rudeness or outright hostility along the lines of 'F-off and go play WoW than!' Couple that with the fact that no one seems to have actually fully read my post in any case .



Precisely what I, and most casual players want to avoid. I don't have a problem with grouping, I just don't always have the time or desire to do so, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

Maybe you hardcore DDO people have no lives, but most of us do. We don't have the desire/time/inclination to spend a year being forced to group, raiding, twinking, re-building characters - if and when you grind a 32pt build - all just to do some soloing when we want/need to. Maybe you equate being forced to group and grind as fun but most people don't - hence one of the reasons that DDO is a niche game. The game has massive potential, but you can't play potential.

Seeing as I've already paid for it, I'll give the new dungeon scaling a shot, but perhaps you're right, maybe this game isn't for me...seeing as I have a life and all.

The whole: Because we disagree with you = we don't have a life ..

Line, is damm pathetic.

What you've done is show yourself to be a 'give it to me now' whinner. Or is it too hard for you to understand that it's perfectly possible to group, get to 1750 favor, do the quests other people don't do very often, and still not play 10 hours a day?

You see all it takes is to not be a demanding, insulting, impatient child and wait for it to come.

But no, you can't. All you can do is insult.

[Psyk0sisS]

ya big show off:)

This is showing off... lvl 19 quest solo :P
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/psyk0siss/ScreenShot00013.jpg


Wow, some community you have here. Most people just replying with rudeness or outright hostility along the lines of 'F-off and go play WoW than!' Couple that with the fact that no one seems to have actually fully read my post in any case .

Precisely what I, and most casual players want to avoid. I don't have a problem with grouping, I just don't always have the time or desire to do so, what's so hard to comprehend about that?

Maybe you hardcore DDO people have no lives, but most of us do. We don't have the desire/time/inclination to spend a year being forced to group, raiding, twinking, re-building characters - if and when you grind a 32pt build - all just to do some soloing when we want/need to. Maybe you equate being forced to group and grind as fun but most people don't - hence one of the reasons that DDO is a niche game. The game has massive potential, but you can't play potential.

Seeing as I've already paid for it, I'll give the new dungeon scaling a shot, but perhaps you're right, maybe this game isn't for me...seeing as I have a life and all.

This is a pretty good community, but most of us have been grizzled by hate from the ordeal with Mod 9. There are many helpful people in this game, and many of the best players DO have a life outside of DDO. You have to have thick skin when you complain about something that most of the vets find simple, and that's because we have the knowledge of spells, dungeon layout, tactics, where and/or how many mobs will spawn..etc. You didn't like the answers that people responded with, or maybe just how they responded...but there was some actual good info in some of those replys, so to retort with remarks that Hardcore players have no life outside of DDO is rude and unfounded. Just sayin :)

P.S. Wow, didn't realize that pic was so BIG, sorry! LOL

[justagame]

To the OP: I went through this same adjustment period with my cleric (which was also my first toon). The fact that you're actually semi-competent at solo melee the first few levels is very misleading. Cast a bull's strength, divine favor, and you're killing just like a fighter.

For most clerics (non-battle-clerics) at higher levels, you aren't anywhere near as effective at melee. Yet there's still that pattern, where you're used to buffing and fighting, and it simply isn't effective anymore. I had to learn a totally new style for solo-ing around levels 11-13. The good news is it's been very very effective:

1. Instakill: For casters and other dangerous low-fort-save mobs you need to kill in a hurry: destruction (or slay living before level 13).
2. Crowd control: For big dumb hulks that can beat you to death (low will saves): greater command, THEN beat them while they're helpless
3. Crowd elimination: For everybody else, get lots of mobs chase you at once, then throw down a quickened blade barrier and run them all back and forth through it. (Caveat: I don't know how dungeon alerts will affect this tactic).
4. If you MUST melee without crowd control first, you need to be able to cause damage faster than the mobs are. I find that a paralyzing weapon is excellent in this regard. You will probably cause damage more slowly, but they won't be hitting back.

On harder quests, it also helps to have a summoned monster, a hireling, or both. They won't be great at killing, but they WILL divert some of the aggro from you.

[Enochroot]

To the OP: I went through this same adjustment period with my cleric (which was also my first toon). The fact that you're actually semi-competent at solo melee the first few levels is very misleading. Cast a bull's strength, divine favor, and you're killing just like a fighter.

For most clerics (non-battle-clerics) at higher levels, you aren't anywhere near as effective at melee. Yet there's still that pattern, where you're used to buffing and fighting, and it simply isn't effective anymore. I had to learn a totally new style for solo-ing around levels 11-13. The good news is it's been very very effective:

1. Instakill: For casters and other dangerous low-fort-save mobs you need to kill in a hurry: destruction (or slay living before level 13).
2. Crowd control: For big dumb hulks that can beat you to death (low will saves): greater command, THEN beat them while they're helpless
3. Crowd elimination: For everybody else, get lots of mobs chase you at once, then throw down a quickened blade barrier and run them all back and forth through it. (Caveat: I don't know how dungeon alerts will affect this tactic).
4. If you MUST melee without crowd control first, you need to be able to cause damage faster than the mobs are. I find that a paralyzing weapon is excellent in this regard. You will probably cause damage more slowly, but they won't be hitting back.

On harder quests, it also helps to have a summoned monster, a hireling, or both. They won't be great at killing, but they WILL divert some of the aggro from you.



Why bother with #2? It's counter-productive to #3, and slower.


Move #3 to #1, move #1 to number 2, and #4 is 98% unnecessary, and should probably involve a vorpal or a puncturer along with that paralyzer.


Who knows how mod9 will be, might bring #2 back, might kill it altogether. I'll edit when mod9 comes.



OP: it sounds like your lack of grouping is directly leading to your frustration. Groups will lead to you running into a few people that actually know how to play the game, and will give you invaluable advice on how to then solo. At 13 cleric you should be able to solo almost everything in the game (possibly with a few deaths) - so stop blaming the game and look to where the real problem is (hint: your strategies). Don't quit like other people have said, just learn to play and take joy in overcoming a challenge.

[78mackson]

The dungeon scaling feature coming in a couple weeks will help this issue alot. Hang in there!

Will it scale towards the person sitting 40cm from the screen aswell?

[justagame]

Why bother with #2? It's counter-productive to #3, and slower.


Move #3 to #1, move #1 to number 2, and #4 is 98% unnecessary, and should probably involve a vorpal or a puncturer along with that paralyzer.


Who knows how mod9 will be, might bring #2 back, might kill it altogether. I'll edit when mod9 comes.



OP: it sounds like your lack of grouping is directly leading to your frustration. Groups will lead to you running into a few people that actually know how to play the game, and will give you invaluable advice on how to then solo. At 13 cleric you should be able to solo almost everything in the game (possibly with a few deaths) - so stop blaming the game and look to where the real problem is (hint: your strategies). Don't quit like other people have said, just learn to play and take joy in overcoming a challenge.


Those weren't in any particular order, but I do agree that #1 and #3 are more effective than the others. But I do use #2 sometimes for sp efficiency. Against a couple of ogres, a greater command will save you 15 sp over a quickened blade barrier. (I say quickened because you don't always have time to set a BB up if mobs are on you fast.)

Also, I would second the recommendation on grouping. Not only is it enjoyable, it can be a real learning experience.

[Jasoul]

Since this is a group focused game and not solo focused I don't see the problem. That you have a L13 cleric and don't have the AC or insight into the game to run > L6 quests w/o dying, however, tells me where the problem is.

Frankly, you should just quit and go somewhere else....

completely disagree with this post!

but i do agree with some of the other posts, your blade barrier is going to be one of your best "weapons" that you have as a lvl 13 cleric. dont waste the sp for just a couple of things to kill. quicken is awesome!
even a lvl 13 cleric should have some of the same pots that most others have, if your using your sp for things like neutralize poison, remove disease, curse removal, remove fear, lesser restore try pots instead. save your sp for killing. above all, have fun, dont get frustrated, maybe change your tactics, so what if it takes a couple seconds kiting things through blade barrier, you have anything else to do while your in that particular instance?

[binnsr]

At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.

whoa .. if you're level 13, you need to discover the joy that is Blade Barrier. pick up maximize and empower (quicken and extend help too, but aren't completely necessary) .. then find a superior potency VI scepter (those go for dirt cheap on the AH, and I've even seen them in the vendors - and if you're on Thelanis, I'm sure I have a spare sitting around - although you'll need a greater potency VI scepter until you hit lvl14) and you should be able to kite the mobs to their deaths to the tune of ~250 damage per hit. Most sands mobs have less than that..

soloing on a cleric is arguably the easiest way to solo.. (a high level sorc or ranger/monk splash being the other ways)

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I don't get why people play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYERS ONLINE just to solo every quest in the game. To me that makes no sense. Spend 50 bucks or better yet rent a single player game and play it. I think it is dumb personally to play a MMO and not play with people. I think that was the purpose in creating MMO's is so people could play with others. Not to pay a monthly fee to play one player. If you feel like you want to explain why you only want to play the game one player instead then i am free to listen but in my opinion you are in the wrong genre of games to look for solo play.

[Ron]

I don't get why people play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYERS ONLINE just to solo every quest in the game. To me that makes no sense. Spend 50 bucks or better yet rent a single player game and play it. I think it is dumb personally to play a MMO and not play with people. I think that was the purpose in creating MMO's is so people could play with others. Not to pay a monthly fee to play one player. If you feel like you want to explain why you only want to play the game one player instead then i am free to listen but in my opinion you are in the wrong genre of games to look for solo play.

Because it's fun. I could not disagree with your post more.

Soloing DDO can be a blast. Especially soloing untwinked.

And the argument that MMOGs are somehow not appropriate for soloing is absurd. Here's a bit of news for you. The most successful MMOGs are heavily solo oriented (WoW and LOTRO are the two biggest and they are very much solo-oriented). Just because a game has multiple people playing doesn't mean it has to be a group experience, and history has shown that in fact the most successful are not. They are, I would argue, solo games with a social component to them, with the addition of forced group play at the very high end of the game (i.e. raids).

DDO is not that way, it is a forced grouping game from the very beginning, and that's why it's a niche game, and always will be. The attempts by the devs to make it more solo friendly is an attempt to up it's subscription base to a wider audience. And hopefully one that will work (and I think it probably WILL work to at least some extent). Like it or not, the solo aspect is an essential part of a MMOGs success, all your posts of "go play a single player game" not withstanding.

Unfortunately for me, the new system will have the opposite effect on my playing. I will no longer solo DDO after MOD9, since the challenge (and hence the fun) will be gone due to dungeon scaling. Since I am no longer interested in PUGs in just about any form, there will, in fact, be little reason for me to continue playing the game at all. Soloing was the last really interesting thing I had left. I do have my dedicated group guild, which is pretty much the only thing still keeping me here :) If it weren't for that, I'd most likely be considering that "Cancel Subscription" button quite seriously.

[KKDragonLord]

I don't get why people play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYERS ONLINE just to solo every quest in the game. To me that makes no sense. Spend 50 bucks or better yet rent a single player game and play it. I think it is dumb personally to play a MMO and not play with people. I think that was the purpose in creating MMO's is so people could play with others. Not to pay a monthly fee to play one player. If you feel like you want to explain why you only want to play the game one player instead then i am free to listen but in my opinion you are in the wrong genre of games to look for solo play.

Challenge is nice, i like it. Its just one of the ways of playing.

[EinarMal]

Because it's fun. I could not disagree with your post more.

Soloing DDO can be a blast. Especially soloing untwinked.

And the argument that MMOGs are somehow not appropriate for soloing is absurd. Here's a bit of news for you. The most successful MMOGs are heavily solo oriented (WoW and LOTRO are the two biggest and they are very much solo-oriented). Just because a game has multiple people playing doesn't mean it has to be a group experience, and history has shown that in fact the most successful are not. They are, I would argue, solo games with a social component to them, with the addition of forced group play at the very high end of the game (i.e. raids).

DDO is not that way, it is a forced grouping game from the very beginning, and that's why it's a niche game, and always will be. The attempts by the devs to make it more solo friendly is an attempt to up it's subscription base to a wider audience. And hopefully one that will work (and I think it probably WILL work to at least some extent). Like it or not, the solo aspect is an essential part of a MMOGs success, all your posts of "go play a single player game" not withstanding.

Unfortunately for me, the new system will have the opposite effect on my playing. I will no longer solo DDO after MOD9, since the challenge (and hence the fun) will be gone due to dungeon scaling. Since I am no longer interested in PUGs in just about any form, there will, in fact, be little reason for me to continue playing the game at all. Soloing was the last really interesting thing I had left. I do have my dedicated group guild, which is pretty much the only thing still keeping me here :) If it weren't for that, I'd most likely be considering that "Cancel Subscription" button quite seriously.

Give them a chance to play with the difficulty levels before declaring DOOOOOOM. The truth is the final game has not been released, and it is very likely to get tweaked over time. It is also possible that it could be turned off at some point if you want it to.

[Ron]

Give them a chance to play with the difficulty levels before declaring DOOOOOOM. The truth is the final game has not been released, and it is very likely to get tweaked over time.

You misunderstand. I'm not declaring DOOOOOM at all :) On the contrary, I think the new system will bring more people to DDO and retain more of them than ever before. It's just not compatible with MY particular playstyle (or at least, one of them, which is the challenge of untwinked soloing). I'm in a HUGE minority on that one though, I don't think Turbine is too worried about losing people like me when they will gain so many more with scaling.


It is also possible that it could be turned off at some point if you want it to.

That would be nice :)

[Zenako]

While it does not completely address the problem of the skilled soloer, two changes they did make later in Beta have made it a bit less of an issue.

VIP's can open quests on Hard to start with.

The Scaling on Hard is smaller than the scaling on Normal, and there is no scaling on the Elite setting.

I don't know about your particular style but most of the time the real challenge comes when attempting a quest on the elite setting for me.

[Strakeln]

I thiink VIP's can start on hard begining mod 9 not perfect but at least you can skip normal
Which, at best, only addresses part of one of the two examples I provided.

[Strakeln]

So open the quest on hard, solo three levels above your level...etc...

They also are doing a BETA test and you are comparing that to a LIVE game you have not played. They also can easily adjust scaling to make it an appropriate challenge. As usual everyone is just overacting to something that isn't even live yet, and will likely evolve a lot over the first few months.I find your faith in Turbine disturbing...

[Strakeln]

Again they are already adjusting the difficulty from BETA from what they originally had. Maybe it is better for you to not play games in BETA since you don't seem to understand what that means.

If you are so uber then run them naked with fists....and solo SC at level 3 that way. Should be a challenge.
So it appears that you do indeed favor a change that caters to your wants, with the unnecessary and blatant exclusion of others?

That's just... foolish, to say the least. Given two choices:

1) You get a slice of cake
vs
2) Everyone can have a slice of cake (this doesn't make your slice any smaller)

you'll choose option 1, eh?

Stay classy, EinarMal.

[EinarMal]

So it appears that you do indeed favor a change that caters to your wants, with the unnecessary and blatant exclusion of others?

That's just... foolish, to say the least. Given two choices:

1) You get a slice of cake
vs
2) Everyone can have a slice of cake (this doesn't make your slice any smaller)

you'll choose option 1, eh?

Stay classy, EinarMal.

Err.... whatever you make absolutely no sense so stay nonsensical Straklen...

[Strakeln]

Give them a chance to play with the difficulty levels before declaring DOOOOOOM. The truth is the final game has not been released, and it is very likely to get tweaked over time. It is also possible that it could be turned off at some point if you want it to.
Guaranteed to be fixed within the same timeframe that we will see Monk fixes!

1 year and counting... so far...

[Uska]

Which, at best, only addresses part of one of the two examples I provided.

Like I said not perfect but at least its something

[Mercules]

1) How do you open an explorer area on hard?

2) I often do quests 3-5 levels above me. I have no desire to Delaris and SC at level 3.

Solution...

Put your twink items away, don't buy expendables use what you find.

[KKDragonLord]

I find your faith in Turbine disturbing...

Lol, i do not agree but i'll give you +1 rep for the clever use of a quote

Btw, would you two stop? theres no point to your argument, if you guys want so bad to tear each others panties do it in PM's

[Turial]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.
....

A lot of the solo play in ddo is different from other MMO's, specifically WOW. In WOW you can take on multiple mobs at once and they will slowly wittle you down while you devistate them.

In DDO if you bite off more then you can chew the mobs will destroy you. You may need to pick up a ranged weapon like a returning throwing axe and learn how to do single pulls on mobs so that you limit your risks. As you gain confedence I would suggest what others have said and use the potent spell power of your class to its full advantage and use spells like blade barrier, greater command, hold person, etc to have some control over the crowds and some potent damage dealing capability.

I've always suggested to people that want to solo that they start in content where they know they can't get killed and learn about what all their class abilities and spells do and how to use them to the best effect. Then slowly work their way up in content and outward in variety to test the limits of what they have learned.

As far as 32 point builds go....meh they aren't needed. Are they slightly better then 28 point builds...maybe for some and yes for others. The grind for them isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. When they first came out you had to have all but 3 of the quests in the game done on elite. Now atleast players have some choice as to what they can skip and we may be nearing the point were having all the content done on hard may unlock the 32 builds. Keep plugging away you'll get there.

[spifflove]

The coming nerf to normal means you will be able to solo zerg korthos-like all the way to level 20.

Goodbye encouraging group play hello wow clone.

[RickSun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickSun
1) Will the XP formula be the same as it is now in the Beta? +10% for no re-entries, +10% for no deaths, no bonus for quests above your level, no penalty for one lvl above quest level, a sliding scale of 10% to 99% for 2 lvls above quest to 6 lvls above quest, no XP for 7 lvls above quest. Or will it be something else?

This is what xp will be on 9/1

2) Will the DDO store prices be as they are now? Or will they be something different?
Will you have an in game VIP event between 9/1 and 9/9 with temporary store bargains.

Mabye!

3) Will the scaling for party size be as it is now on Normal and Hard? Or will it be different?

This is what it will be on 9/1

4) Will the Dungeon Alerts be as they are now? Or will they be different?

The same!

5) Will you fix known bugs currently in Beta? Or will that be done after the 9/1 release? How will you test that they are really fixed if the Beta is shut down?

Stuff will be fixed in a future update but I am not entirely sure since I don't have the list right in front of me. Also we have internal test servers that QA tests on instead of Live servers.

Examples of known bugs:

Kargoth never spawns in his cave in the Cerulean Hills.
The Explorer list in 3 Barrel Cove still shows The Salty Wench instead of its replacement.
The rare troll (Dulse) on the island near the Black Loch never spawns in 3 Barrel Cove.
There is a Red Dungeon Alert in the final battle of Prison of the Planes on Normal when there is no legitimate reason for any Dungeon Alert at all.

6) Will Glancing Blows work as they do now in Beta? Or will they be different?

They should be the same as they were on the test server.

Please answer the above either here or in the release notes for 9/1.

Answers in Yellow and Green.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DDo Quality Assurance- Player Bug Specialist

This was posted by +404error in response to a series of questions I asked. The Beta is over. The live game on 9/1 will be exactly as the final settings of the Beta. Any changes anyone wants are looking forward to at least Mod 9.5 or Mod 10.

[Mr_Ed7]

Is this not a game where the dungeons are designed for parties of 6 characters all with varying powers?

Get a console!

Go solo the Dragon Raid...

[Strakeln]

The coming nerf to normal means you will be able to solo zerg korthos-like all the way to level 20.

Goodbye encouraging group play hello wow clone.Nicely summarized. Have some rep.

[Strakeln]

Like I said not perfect but at least its something
Something > Nothing, for sure... but in this case, "Everything" is easily obtainable.

When there's little difference between something and everything, anything short of everything is arguably inadequate.

Now that may come across as nonsensical, lol.

[KKDragonLord]

:)

Gotta love someone calling you a moron due to their failure to understand!

It's a simple proposal: The current solution satisfies EinarMal's desires at the expense of others. By offering an option, EinarMal's desires are satisfied in exactly the same way, but without the detriment to others. He can have the best of both worlds, but is so stuck on being angry that I don't think he's realized that's my whole point.

It's very cute, though!

I agree there, what i meant was that your point was evident to most of us and you should have tried to be the bigger person. His point was clear too, and while i strongly disagree with it, its a different reasoning from another point of view. You could just let the community judge his considerable "lack of sophistication" on that "ingenious name calling" argumentation he presented.

[Strakeln]

I agree there, what i meant was that your point was evident to most of us and you should have tried to be the bigger person. His point was clear too, and while i strongly disagree with it, its a different reasoning from another point of view. You could just let the community judge his considerable "lack of sophistication" on that "ingenious name calling argumentation" he presented.
But I'm here to play the role of the smaller person! :D

(I get what ya mean, bro)

[RickSun]

I don't get why people play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYERS ONLINE just to solo every quest in the game. To me that makes no sense. Spend 50 bucks or better yet rent a single player game and play it. I think it is dumb personally to play a MMO and not play with people. I think that was the purpose in creating MMO's is so people could play with others. Not to pay a monthly fee to play one player. If you feel like you want to explain why you only want to play the game one player instead then i am free to listen but in my opinion you are in the wrong genre of games to look for solo play.

It can't make sense for you because you are a very attractive female (assuming the picture you posted of yourself is really you and relatively recent). You will have an unending stream of guys wanting to play with you or chat with you.

There are no really good D&D style games left to play (Exceptions are NWN 2 and Oblivion). The market is shifting to MMORPGs and the solo player has to move there to get the gaming quality they want. DDO EU is simply put a superior game for the D&D style genre.

Just because I like to play solo doesn't mean I always play solo. There is a new chat feature coming on 9/1. You will be able to chat with everyone in your zone (Harbor, Market, etc) even when in quests (you can turn the chat off in quests). So there will be social interactions even if you are playing solo.

PS: Don't call people who play solo "dumb".

[DoctorWhofan]

try completeing raids, first,
learn to play well with others,
rinse and repeat for a year,
twink a couple re rolls, rinse and repeat.

now try soloing.
it's ok to be a noob, we all were once.
but whining about, not alowed <GRIN>

+1 for you!

and /agree

[Strakeln]

(Preface: DDO is my first and only MMO) I will admit that I was a bit taken by surprise when I bought this game and found out there was no offline/single player mode. I also remember thinking it was odd that solo play wasn't well supported (at the time, solo difficulty wasn't available on any missions). While I understand now, I don't see enabling the option for solo play to be a bad thing.

I always get a kick out of seeing the "Game experience may change during online play" message when logging in. It's not like anyone has ever played this game offline...

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

I don't get why people play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYERS ONLINE just to solo every quest in the game. To me that makes no sense. Spend 50 bucks or better yet rent a single player game and play it. I think it is dumb personally to play a MMO and not play with people. I think that was the purpose in creating MMO's is so people could play with others. Not to pay a monthly fee to play one player. If you feel like you want to explain why you only want to play the game one player instead then i am free to listen but in my opinion you are in the wrong genre of games to look for solo play.

You shouldn't take your lack of imagination and use it to insult other people. There are many reasons to pick an MMO even though you plan on soloing, such as:

- MMO have hugely more content than a single player RPG
- MMOs grow and change over time far more than a single player RPG
- MMOs give you the option of grouping when you want, far easier than in a single player RPG
- MMOs don't lock you into a set story or forced into taking certain NPC groupmates, like a single player RPG

I'm sure there are other reasons. Just because you can't think of them doesn't mean they don't exist and it certainly doesn't give you a reason to throw insults.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

The coming nerf to normal means you will be able to solo zerg korthos-like all the way to level 20.

Goodbye encouraging group play hello wow clone.

Spoken like someone who hasn't even tried the beta. If you had, you would not have said that.

[EinarMal]

:)

Gotta love someone calling you a moron due to their failure to understand!

It's a simple proposal: The current solution satisfies EinarMal's desires at the expense of others. By offering an option, EinarMal's desires are satisfied in exactly the same way, but without the detriment to others. He can have the best of both worlds, but is so stuck on being angry that I don't think he's realized that's my whole point.

It's very cute, though!

Show me where I said anything about my desires, I don't even solo that much, I do believe that making the game solable will add subcriptions and keep the game alive, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If they want to add a toggle to turn it off then that is up to them. It is better to have it more solo friendly with no toggle, then the way it is today.

[EinarMal]

...yet you support the solution that satisfies your wants to the detriment of others, when many perfectly viable and easily implemented solutions are readily available? That seems a rather pigheaded approach to take, wouldn't you say?

This is the part of the whole thing that makes absolutely no sense and the beginning of the insults.... I never said I did not support the ability to turn it off or whatever you are implying here.

[Strakeln]

Show me where I said anything about my desires, I don't even solo that much, I do believe that making the game solable will add subcriptions and keep the game alive, you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If they want to add a toggle to turn it off then that is up to them. It is better to have it more solo friendly with no toggle, then the way it is today.
Would the term "desired solution" work better for you?

I'm not speaking to your playstyle, I'm speaking to the stance you have taken in this thread. Which you do appear to be backpedaling away from right now.


This is the part of the whole thing that makes absolutely no sense and the beginning of the insults.... I never said I did not support the ability to turn it off or whatever you are implying here.
:eek: He starts to understand!

BTW, what was in the post you quoted was not intended as an insult or name-calling. I suggested that the approach of "give me what I want at the exclusion of what others want" as being pigheaded. It was intended as an opportunity for you to say "gee, I didn't think of it that way", or "gee, that wasn't my intention at all"... hence my picking on your selection of approach and not you specifically.

While it wasn't name calling, I encourage you to report it if you still interpret it as such. I'm confident I haven't crossed any lines, but hey, you never know, and we gotta keep those forum mods employed!

[Riggs]

How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....

Honestly I feel sorry for new people who post on these boards. One would think with the comments of "leave" or "this game is not for you" that DDO is such a smash hit we can just turn people away. :rolleyes:

A game that does not allow for people to solo is a dead/dying game that is why Turbine's stance has changed they made a very poor decision up front that has cost them big time and now they are stuck with the last ditch f2p effort with added soloing features.

Indeed.

2 pages of "get the freak out of here you stupid noob or learn to play the game" is an awesome way to welcome new players.

Because of apparent lag issues Turbine went with the 'less monsters that are several times tougher than they should be' route. Twink builds can handle it, esp when they know eveyr quest inside and out (like needing fire in antraxias say and since half the stuff has evasion - blade barrier will fail to kill a lot of stuff there - conviently ignored by haters) non-twink builds get turned to mulch in many quests.

Maybe dungeon scaling will help....how long has DDO been out? Do we have scaling yet? How does that help someone playing for two months already...and maybe decides to quit because the community is full of jerks?

Pugging a cleric is a pain in the behind. Everyone WANTS clerics, for the quests THEY want to run, but how often do people go out and help clerics when they post for stuff?....yeah....

Many pugs stink, some are awesome. But if you have a 50/50 shot of having a super annoying play experience every time you join a pug - soloing is generally more enjoyable on the balance.

Antraxias and the desert are non-level 16 areas, but even a 40 ac is nearly a waste of time for a lot of stuff. And the named animals in Antraxias will mess you up if your not twinked out like crazy. The fact that players can even hit 40 at at level 10 say is unbalncing already, the fact that a 40 ac is almost completely useless after level 10 shows how out of balance things are.

I watched another online game wither and die because of a lack of suuport, but also because after a certain point, all changes being made were to cater to the elite hardcore players - and new players basically got shafted. Which is a good way to make a game that is fun for a small % of people until it shrinks and dies out.

The game isnt supposed to be about soloing - but if grouping gets painful, if you cant easily solo, then you stop playing. The OP stated about you shouldnt need twinked builds to play - and pretty much everyone dumped all the useful advice "Well if you twink your cleric out you should be fine, esp in mod 9 with dungeon scaling"...basically. Great advice.

DDO has a lot of unbalanced aspects, which people tend to forget or gloss over after they have played for a long time. "hey its a group game - but we hate you because your a noob, so shut the f up and learn to play before talking"

Good luck finding new players when they get ripped up within 5 minutes of posting - bravo. Pat yourselves on the back for being so uber. Maybe you will get awards.

[EinarMal]

Would the term "desired solution" work better for you?

I'm not speaking to your playstyle, I'm speaking to the stance you have taken in this thread. Which you do appear to be backpedaling away from right now.


:eek: He starts to understand!



Seriously you need to re-read everything I have said because you are the one that is confused.

Things I said:
1. Game should be easier to solo and the OP has a vaild point, dungeon scaling is good because of this. A game that does not allow a newer player to solo and learn the game is not going to do well.

That is pretty much it, so no I am not "backpedaling" from anything.

[Visty]

/snip
well, everyone who cant solo lvl6 quests on his lvl13 cleric deserves the responses here as there is no way this cant be true

[EinarMal]

Indeed.

The game isnt supposed to be about soloing - but if grouping gets painful, if you cant easily solo, then you stop playing. The OP stated about you shouldnt need twinked builds to play - and pretty much everyone dumped all the useful advice "Well if you twink your cleric out you should be fine, esp in mod 9 with dungeon scaling"...basically. Great advice.

DDO has a lot of unbalanced aspects, which people tend to forget or gloss over after they have played for a long time. "hey its a group game - but we hate you because your a noob, so shut the f up and learn to play before talking"

Good luck finding new players when they get ripped up within 5 minutes of posting - bravo. Pat yourselves on the back for being so uber. Maybe you will get awards.

This is exactly what I am saying but much more well put. A new player should be able to take any build template that is offered, and solo the game at some difficulty level to learn on their own pace if they want to. At least I believe this is very critical to the success of MMO games. It should not have to be a caster or an advanced twinked build designed just for solo, you shouldn't need to know every single quest inside and out etc...

[Mindspat]

Ditch the fear you have of grouping with others. There's a very good chance that the more you play with other players the more you'll learn how to play your own character.

Soloing is not easy, it is extremely challenging. If you can't do it, try playing with others, taking advice as you play. If not, then you're going to be forced to stick with dumbed down cookie cutter games that spoon feed you content in the form of rait_tails and pig_snouts.

This community is not anything like that of World of Warcraft. You shouldn't be afraid to play with others here...

[kingfisher]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.

What you guys have for content is great but it's not good to anyone if they can't run it by themselves when they want or need to. This is probably the single biggest limiting factor of the game and the main reason why DDO is not a major commercial success - than and the need to get new content out on a regular basis. You won't see me hanging around for a year giving you money for nothing. You need to retool a lot of these quests, not just so people can solo them, but party quests too.

I look at my adventure compendium for stuff I haven't done - for favor for my 32 pointer, very bad decision/implementation of that btw - I advertise for it and no one wants to do it because the XP/loot isn't good enough relative to the difficulty and length of XYZ quest. Yet I'm inundated all day long with requests to come to Gianthold - so much so that I have to go anon a lot of the time. That's just silly. What's the point of having a pile of content no one wants to run? This should be raising red flags for you guys. Alarm bells should be ringing. Say what you want about WoW, love it or hate it, but being able to solo and party when and where you like is the reason they have 12 million people and every other MOG is lucky to have 100k plus.

Don't get me wrong, I really like DDO, and I like Turbine, but after a month into the game now I'm starting to see these glaring issues. It's stuff like this that will keep people from (re)subbing. Being forced to wait around and do stuff you don't really want to do isn't fun. And like the man said, it's not so bad to have some fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place? It's like James Woods said in Family Guy, 'Well that sounds like a "fun time", Peter. Tell me, where exactly does James Woods fit into the "fun time"?'

funny stuff and some good points OP, but (and i have not read the whole thread so apoplgies if someone else said this first) this is first and foremost a team game. i had the same troubles as you did years ago when i first started playing this game. i was worse in fact; i did not discover the forums until i had been playing an entire year. i solo'd my first toon all the way to level 8-9 in 6 months, cursing the xp penalty and the xp debt, the expensive ass gear, and the hard to hit mobs, etc etc. i was about to quit. i wanted a **** pause button if i was going to have to do it all myself. then i finally hit accept when i was invited to a group and found out how much easier it was if there was at least someone else for SOME of the mobs to attack. that night the group i was in finished like 8 quests! i was blown away. for new players this game is EASY for 6, normal for 3-4, and hard as hell for a single player just starting out. its got a different attack system that takes some getting used to. the learning curve is steeper than other games. sure sure once you have all the twink lowbie gear you can solo anything yeah yeah, but starting out it can be downright discouraging. dont let that happen to you. join a group. join a bunch of groups. dont take **** off of anyone. your solo skills will help you in this game. eventually you will find a crew to run with on a regular basis and after that its all gravy.

[Strakeln]

Seriously you need to re-read everything I have said because you are the one that is confused.

Things I said:
1. Game should be easier to solo and the OP has a vaild point, dungeon scaling is good because of this. A game that does not allow a newer player to solo and learn the game is not going to do well.

That is pretty much it, so no I am not "backpedaling" from anything.
/sigh

Okay, let's step back.


Unfortunately, while it will correct the problem of newbies not being able to solo their way out of a cardboard box, it will also take away the challenge for those of us who actually enjoy it.
So you see here that in my very first response to this thread, I identified "newbies not being able to solo" as a "problem". The implication being, it should be resolved. I then continue on to say that it should either be an option or it should be taken out completely.


How will it affect you, if you want a challenge run it on elite voila no scaling....
Then you come in and that it won't affect me or anyone else. I provide two examples that explain how it might affect someone. I then re-state what I think is your stance, and punctuate it with a question mark, providing you the opportunity to clarify your stance:


They're satisfying one group at the expense of another, when all it would take to satisfy both groups would be to provide the option to disable dungeon scaling.

...yet you support the solution that satisfies your wants to the detriment of others, when many perfectly viable and easily implemented solutions are readily available? That seems a rather pigheaded approach to take, wouldn't you say?

Typically a question mark indicates that the sentence is a question. I was soliciting a response from you, giving you opportunity to clarify your stance. You decide to ignore the question and instead do the worst dismissal of examples the world has ever seen:


So open the quest on hard, solo three levels above your level...etc...
Yeah, that applies well to explorer areas... :rolleyes: Also covers my soloist example... oh wait, it doesn't.

You then go on to try out a mamby-pamby "oh we haven't seen the finished product", presumably implying (since you didn't bother to clarify your stance) that a disable option is unnecessary, because you have faith that Turbine will get it perfect:

They also are doing a BETA test and you are comparing that to a LIVE game you have not played. They also can easily adjust scaling to make it an appropriate challenge. As usual everyone is just overacting to something that isn't even live yet, and will likely evolve a lot over the first few months.
What the hell is that? lol

So there I was, supporting a specific stance: fix the "newbies can't solo" problem, but not in such a way that it causes detriment to the players who like the challenge level where it is currently.

And there you were, trying to argue against the same stance you're now supporting... but saying you've been consistent this whole time. So that means one of two things: either you're backpedaling now, or you really need to pay better attention to the content of posts you're quoting.

Here, let me rephrase all of that, since phrasing has obviously been an issue here:

I state position A, you respond with position B. Position A encompasses position B, but it takes you three pages to realize that. You now claim that you've been aware of that the whole time. The question the rest of us have is, then why were you arguing?

[redoubt]

This thread makes me sad :(

I recently picked up the game again and rolled a solo-only build since I do not have the time to play the way I used to. The character is untwinked and has never been in a party. I ran quests only once for each difficulty and didn't grind for xp or loot etc... I've never had as much fun playing the game.

People keep saying that if you don't want dungeon scaling then you should just run elite. Sorry but that misses the point completely. My very unsolo-friendly ranger should NOT be able to solo a level 9 quest on elite right off the bat. As it stands on the live servers, I expect to succeed on my first try on normal and usually on hard too (depending on the quest) but I need to do everything in my power to solo a quest successfully on elite (if I have to recall I usually give up or start over). With the new system it will be a child's play for normal and hard. Two thirds of the fun is trying to succeed on normal and hard, they're meant to prepare you for elite not just run through and hit a huge difficulty wall later, why should I just jump to Elite because other people don't know how to play properly.

And yes, the issue here is not that the game is hard but that people don't know how to play it. Half my character's gear is khortos gear, she's running around with perma-featherfall and perma-underwaterAction because I haven't found anything better for those slots, no dex/con item and uses a +2 shield and +3 mithral bp (I got lucky!) and NO protection item... I have yet to buy a SINGLE consumable, whether it is potion or wands or whatever, just used what I picked up along the way for 9 levels now. Let me just repeat that, I haven't bought a single consumable for 9 levels, all solo.

Solo scaling is fine for those who don't want to group and are new to the game (I don't agree with the play style but I don't care). That said, I don't see why two thirds of the game should be made ridiculously unchallenging for the rest of us...

Edit: I've never had this much fun in DDO but unfortunately, dungeon scaling, dungeon alerts and grazing hits will kill the game for me :(

amen

[redoubt]

Some good points. I do agree that the ability to solo would add to the game and the playerbase. In other games I played, I spent many hours killing creatures solo for xp and loot. I also had guilds and spent a good portion of my time in groups, but having that option gave me more to do. That being said, DDO was designed to be a grouping game, much like the D&D game. Other Turbine games are more friendly for soloing. I wouldn't count a lot of changes to the solo game in the near future.

How does making the game more solo friendly add to the people who would like to see more groups?

Sure, it adds to turbines bottom line and it lets people play and online game alone.

Tell me again the point of playing an online game alone?

[redoubt]

So open the quest on hard, solo three levels above your level...etc...

They also are doing a BETA test and you are comparing that to a LIVE game you have not played. They also can easily adjust scaling to make it an appropriate challenge. As usual everyone is just overacting to something that isn't even live yet, and will likely evolve a lot over the first few months.

I'll have to reread it, but did Turbine not make a change such that you no longer get an xp bonus for being under the level of the quest?

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

This is exactly what I am saying but much more well put. A new player should be able to take any build template that is offered, and solo the game at some difficulty level to learn on their own pace if they want to. At least I believe this is very critical to the success of MMO games. It should not have to be a caster or an advanced twinked build designed just for solo, you shouldn't need to know every single quest inside and out etc...

NO FREAKING WAY!

That makes no sense. D&D was never designed to be balanced from one class to the next. If the devs tried to do that they would have to basterdise every freaking rule in the game to TRY and make it hapen. Chance of success: 0

This is not every other MMO. This is an MMO based on D&D and in D&D there is no class balance. Putting it in to make some whinners happy would totaly ruin the game.

[eonfreon]

How does making the game more solo friendly add to the people who would like to see more groups?

Sure, it adds to turbines bottom line and it lets people play and online game alone.

Tell me again the point of playing an online game alone?

To burn off steam?
Relax?
Not have to deal with another Human Being for awhile?

What is the point of any game?
To have fun.

Sure, we can state that it's within the "spirit of DnD" to group and other things, but it all just comes down to what the developers have coded and what the players want to do.

I'm fine with the way things are/were.
I personally don't care about soloing, although I can do it, and could always do it, even when I started.

So, we can keep the whole "DnD is meant to be a group game" etc motto going.
That's fine.

However, there are some who, for whatever reason, prefer to play solo.
The OP is obviously one of those.

True, his post does indeed come off as a bit of a whine, but so what?
He blows off some steam on the Forums.
Maybe he keeps playing, maybe he quits.

But there are many reasons people want to sometimes be left alone, even in a Video Game.
And obviously Turbine wants to make money off those people.

If your problem with making the game more solo-friendly is that it will make it harder to create groups..... well that's just silly.
Because that almost sounds like you're saying "don't do what they want because it'll make it harder for me to do what I want".
Not an altogether bad argument to be sure, but still looks rather.... silly.

[EinarMal]

You now claim that you've been aware of that the whole time. The question the rest of us have is, then why were you arguing?

Why are you arguing and quoting me again? Just shut the hell up already.

[EinarMal]

NO FREAKING WAY!

That makes no sense. D&D was never designed to be balanced from one class to the next. If the devs tried to do that they would have to basterdise every freaking rule in the game to TRY and make it hapen. Chance of success: 0

This is not every other MMO. This is an MMO based on D&D and in D&D there is no class balance. Putting it in to make some whinners happy would totaly ruin the game.

If they can't convince f2P players to try the game and some of them to buy stuff and/or convert to subs the game will die and you will be playing no game based on D&D.

They are already attempting to do this with dungeon scaling, and nothing has zero probability.

If the game were doing well it would be one thing, but this is it, a pretty much last ditch effort to keep the game running. If dungeon scaling means some solo types stick around and pay some money so they can make more content I don't see how that hurts anybody.

The only argument of anyone being current solo players who want a challenge? My understanding is hard won't be that different from normal today, explorer areas might be an issue. They probably should let the party leader toggle the scaling on the quest window with a check box or something.

[RickSun]

I'll have to reread it, but did Turbine not make a change such that you no longer get an xp bonus for being under the level of the quest?

You will no longer get an XP bonus if your level is under the quest level. That will be live on 9/1.

[WestiesMA]

For a cleric, Level 13 is kind of like the awkward teenage years. Your offensive spells lack the punch you need to wipe out mobs, and you really can't hit anything anymore unless you are specifically specced for it.

It will get better. My Level 16 healing-specced cleric is able to put up a blade barrier and run mobs through it pretty efficiently (except for the kitties in the Reaver's Refuge with a 400 reflex save).

[Uska]

NO FREAKING WAY!

That makes no sense. D&D was never designed to be balanced from one class to the next. If the devs tried to do that they would have to basterdise every freaking rule in the game to TRY and make it hapen. Chance of success: 0

This is not every other MMO. This is an MMO based on D&D and in D&D there is no class balance. Putting it in to make some whinners happy would totaly ruin the game.

Umm that use to be true but have looked at the hell that is 4E dnd classes have be so balanced that the game to me so bland no that it has less taste then vanilla

[FluffyCalico]

Umm that use to be true but have looked at the hell that is 4E dnd classes have be so balanced that the game to me so bland no that it has less taste then vanilla

Yes its selling better than any other version and making more money too :rolleyes:

[Uska]

Yes its selling better than any other version and making more money too :rolleyes:

Your getting this from where hasbro or wotc?:rolleyes:


No accounting for idiots and the speed they wish to be parted from their money, but anyways I understand pathfinder was selling better at gencon.




One more point its easy just to spout off information with no facts to back it up with


If you werent so amusing with all your useless and pointless posts I would put you on ignore.


I can see your a fan of that bubble gum rpg eh?

[parvo]

I'm getting tired of the game being made continiously easier for the bottom 0.001% for whom it will never be easy enough.

[Strakeln]

Why are you arguing and quoting me again? Just shut the hell up already.
/waves

[Mercules]

Tell me again the point of playing an online game alone?

Tell me the point of playing an FPS like Unreal Tournament and Quake III solo? Yet the game designers went through a lot of trouble to design bots, teams, and options so you could play the whole game without ever having another person connected to it. :)

I'll give you a very good reason for playing alone in DDO or any MMO...

When doing so I don't have to worry about dealing with <insert favorite derogatory term that equates to idiot>s.


Sometimes I log in to a game to get away from everyone else for a bit. I do software tech support over the phone which means I have a headset on all day and have to be polite to people when they are not listening to me or not answering the question I just asked them. Often I need to convince them to let me help them.

Why would I want to get home from 8 hours of that, log into a game, and perform the same task?:D This is especially true when I play a Cleric.

[EinarMal]

/waves

/runs the other direction screaming...:D

[LeCutter]

This is exactly what I am saying but much more well put. A new player should be able to take any build template that is offered, and solo the game at some difficulty level to learn on their own pace if they want to. At least I believe this is very critical to the success of MMO games. It should not have to be a caster or an advanced twinked build designed just for solo, you shouldn't need to know every single quest inside and out etc...

Exactly my point. It's nice to see that some people in this thread understand. I've PnP'ed, BBS'ed (door games) MUDded, and MOGed for over 20 years now. I like to think I have a basic grasp of the fundamentals of how D&D and the variants based on it work. It's not like I'm new to D&D or gaming in general. Coming in expecting to play a class solo to learn the game isn't unreasonable - particualrly given the time and real-life constraints most people have today.

I never said I was opposed to grouping. I like grouping. I've found a good guild and I've been meeting some really good people, but somtimes I just want to run around myself, or don't have the time or patience for a group, as do many other people. So again, is it unreasonable for a new, untwinked player learning the game to be able to solo when they want/need to? Because just building a standard 28 point character with the average gear you find is pretty **** hard trying to solo anything past level 6 - *particularly when you're still learning the game*. Couple that with the fact that this a D&D game which doesn't play like D&D and it's confusing and somewhat overwhelming for anyone in that postion.

In my mind, a mid to higher level cleric should have little difficulty in soloing with a decent AC, so long as they're not zerging around like they're Superman. This is not the case. Couple it with the fact that a lot of things don't work as they do in PnP and new toons are bound to have some mistakes made at creation that don't help, futher exacerbates the situation. I took 2 feats which are pretty much standard for any PnP cleric but have found out - both through experimentation and research on the forums after the failed experimentation - they're useless. Then I used my free feat respec for another - again after the fact - useless feat. Now I just went out and dropped 200k to get 1 of those feats swapped out and will drop another 200k at some point to get rid of the other. That's a hell of a costly mistake for learning the game.

I don't disagree either that the game should scale up in as difficult as someone wants it, in order to keep them challenged, but it has to go the other way too. And what does anyone care if there's an easier way to end game? If these players aren't uber enough it's not like they'll be running elite end game raids with you anyway, so how does this affect you? And lastly - for the detractors - this game isn't about you. It's not your game, and other people pay their money too. This is a business in the end. And if it doesn't make money, than there's no game to play at all. Something Turbine is finally realizing whether you like it or not. If you want real hardcore, petition Turbine for an Ironman server. You die, you reroll. Uber enough for you? Meanwhile, most of us will be pretty happy both soloing and grouping as most normal people do in most games.

[Zenako]

In my mind, a mid to higher level cleric should have little difficulty in soloing with a decent AC, so long as they're not zerging around like they're Superman. This is not the case. Couple it with the fact that a lot of things don't work as they do in PnP and new toons are bound to have some mistakes made at creation that don't help, futher exacerbates the situation. I took 2 feats which are pretty much standard for any PnP cleric but have found out - both through experimentation and research on the forums after the failed experimentation - they're useless. Then I used my free feat respec for another - again after the fact - useless feat. Now I just went out and dropped 200k to get 1 of those feats swapped out and will drop another 200k at some point to get rid of the other. That's a hell of a costly mistake for learning the game.


OK, but in the minds of many players of this game, a mid to higher level cleric has no problems soloing with or without a decent AC. So from that standpoint, your starting premise that this is not possible is not true. (we probably also need to understand where you are considering Mid level to be? Level 5? or level 11? or something in between. I assure you that once you hit level 11, you are close to being a killing machine with perhaps the single most universally deadly spell in the game BB.

What feats did you take that are so useless? I have trouble thinking of any that I would consider standard for PnP in any game I have played that are useless in DDO. (I am assuming you were not taking something like: SKill Focus: Swimming for example....)

[KKDragonLord]

If the Op got -1 rep for evey time BB is metioned in this thread... Well he probably would have lost a lot of rep.

Of all the classes in the game there are certainly others worse than cleric for soloing.
That much has to have been made clear by now.

I for one believe that the game is easy enough as it is, probably easier than it should be and this very thread is moot since we are days away to a fundamental change that will cater to the wants (or whinings) of the "poorly skilled" soloist "crowd".

As it will be soon, the solo difficulty option in quests will be pretty much useless because one manning a quest on normal will take its place. I hope very much that they make dungeon scaling optional in the future.

[gaki]

OK, can we knock off this nonsense about the OP being less skilled?

Knowledge is not skill. Experience is not skill. There's nothing inherently special about you because you've figured out, by trial an error or by simply reading, that Blade Barrier is the cleric's best friend. There's nothing special about you because you know the game well enough to know the quests to run and the gear to get to twink your character right. Can we please stop acting like the OP is somehow less than human because he doesn't know all this, yet?


--- to the OP ---

I'm soloing a cleric right now, and I hit 10th yesterday, so I know your pain. Here's some strategies that can help you survive as a solo player. Cleric's are really good for soloing because they combine the high AC of the fighter with the insta-death spells of the wizard/sorcerer and have healing to boot.

a) protect yourself :



Base Armor Class - AC30 is fine at 13th level, but you can probably be higher. Even with no DEX bonus to your AC at all, you can hit 30 with plain +5 plate and a +5 shield. Plain +5 items open up for you at 8th level and aren't all that expensive on the auction house, to boot. If you get mithril items ($), you'll get a couple more pts. of your DEX you can add to your total and might even hit 33, depending on your DEX.


AC Add ons - To your base shield and armour, you can add certain types of additional protection. You have a spell called Shield of Faith that scales with your level and gives you a deflection bonus. At 13th, that bonus will be +4 for you. That will give you a 34. A barkskin potion adds a natural armour bonus and you can buy +3 barkskin potions at many potion vendors. That will give you a 37. Other items/feats will give you other types of bonuses to you AC (insight, dodge, etc.) but are harder to find. The two I've listed will get you started. Note, however, that if you have two items that offer the same type of bonus, they do not stack. If you find a protection item (which gives you a deflection bonus), it will NOT stack with your Shield of Faith spell. Protection items are crazy expensive on the auction house, so my advice is to stick with the spell until you find one via quests.


Speed - absolutely key to soloing is foot speed. If you can outrun the mobs, you can keep pegging them when they can't hit you. If you look on the auction house, you'll see striding items (boots, rings, etc.) and at 13th, I think you can get the top item, +30%. Buy as high as you can afford and save for a top level pair. They are indispensable, which is why they will be expensive. Hint: jump when you cast. If you are running away, you'll slow down when you try to cast a spell. If you jump and then cast in mid-air, this doesn't happen. It takes practice, but is very useful.


Protection from Crits - key to the strategy of minimizing damage, is getting rid of those critical hits, which requires a special type of protection called Fortification. You'll find it on cloaks, rings, etc. but if you can find someone to show you around the Orchard of the Macabre, running the chests in that area for loot will give you tapestry pieces you can trade in to a guy by the Orchard for a neato helm called the Minos Legens, which gives you 100% fortification (no crits - ever) and a bunch of extra hit points (False Life). It might take you a few runs through to get all the pieces you need, but if you have a good guide, that won't take long. If you are on Khyber, look up the Hounds of Vulkoor. We've got a bunch of high level toons that can run you through the Orchard to show you around.


Damage Reduction - if you can, replace the plain +5 armour and shield combo with adamantine stuff or find a suit that features the special characteristic called Invulnerability. Both take damage right off the top from any blow you'll see. If you go the first route, adamantine weapons will still harm you. The latter route chops a bit off of everything.



b) Offense, offense, offense



Specialty Weapon Characteristics - having a good toolkit for weapons is key, too. As you come across them, try to pick up weapons with special characteristics like smiting (insta-kill constructs), disruption (insta-kill undead), paralyzation (freezes live foes in place), cursing (gives the mob a -4 to hit and saves) or with a special combination (holy of good, acid of good, etc.) that doubles up your damage. Having the right weapon for the mobs you'll be facing is very important.


Blade Barrier - As others have said, Blade Barrier is your friend. If you use the meta-magic feats (Empower, etc.) you can get that Blade Barrier doing 150 pts. every time something passes through it. You run back and forth through the blade barrier (take a loop around on each pass so you aren't running back through the guys chasing you) and you will do what is called "kiting" where they follow you like a kite on a string. A good combination of metamagic feats is Empower and Extend. You can clean up entire groups of foes with this one spell.


Insta-kill spells - this is why I LOVE clerics. Insta-kill spells come in at 9th level (which opens up Slay Living as a 5th level spell) and at 13th (which opens up Destruction as a 7th level spell). Slay Living is a touch spell, so you have to be close. Destruction is ranged. If you compare Destruction to the wizard/sorcerer spell Finger of Death, you'll see why clerics have it good. Even if the foe makes his save, he still gets 10d6 damage. Boom. If you can, boost the DC of your Necromancy spells with the feats Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and try to find an item that boots your Necromancy DC (bracers usually). Red named bosses are immune to insta-death spells, as are undead, but that's what Blade Barrier and Searing Light are for. As you hit higher levels, these will become less useful because the mobs will have Spell Resistance (SR), but you can take feats and enhancements to overcome SR (and get Spell Penetration items to help).


Debuff - Those insta-death spells are almost all Fortitude saves to resist, which means their CON bonus contributes to their saving throw. Anything you can do to reduce their saves (Doom or Curse) or nail their CON (Poison) increases your chance of insta-killing them. Get sneaky and debuff the big orange named baddie before you go in for the kill.


Potency Items - Potency items add to the amount of damage you do on spells (even healing spells on yourself). By 13th level, you should be able to get a Superior Potency VI rod or staff, which will boost all your spells 6th and below by a full 50%. Add to this by choosing enhancements that boost your negative/healing spells or light/alignment spells and simple third level spells like Searing Light will skyrocket in the amount of damage they inflict. Searing Light, btw, has NO SAVING THROW. Yep, guaranteed damage. All juiced up with a potency item and your enhancements, it's not unheard of to hit 150 odd pts. with that spell. Undead become your beeyotch.


Manage Cool Downs - when you cast a spell, there is always a cool down period before you can cast it again. If you look carefully, you'll see that the other spells in your repertoire become accessible again in a much shorter time than the spell you just cast. If you have two spells beside each other on your bars, you can alternate back and forth with them much faster than you would be able to with the same spell using repeated castings. Some good combos are Searing Light/Deific Vengeance, Destruction/Slay Living, Healing Spells, etc.



Oh, and know the quest you are going into cold before you go in. Find a walkthrough, do a little scouting run with some invisibility potions, talk to folks in the forum, etc.

[KKDragonLord]

OK, can we knock off this nonsense about the OP being less skilled?

Knowledge is not skill. Experience is not skill. There's nothing inherently special about you because you've figured out, by trial an error or by simply reading, that Blade Barrier is the cleric's best friend. There's nothing special about you because you know the game well enough to know the quests to run and the gear to get to twink your character right. Can we please stop acting like the OP is somehow less than human because he doesn't know all this, yet?


--- to the OP ---

I'm soloing a cleric right now, and I hit 10th yesterday, so I know your pain. Here's some strategies that can help you survive as a solo player. Cleric's are really good for soloing because they combine the high AC of the fighter with the insta-death spells of the wizard/sorcerer and have healing to boot.

a) protect yourself :



Base Armor Class - AC30 is fine at 13th level, but you can probably be higher. Even with no DEX bonus to your AC at all, you can hit 30 with plain +5 plate and a +5 shield. Plain +5 items open up for you at 8th level and aren't all that expensive on the auction house, to boot. If you get mithril items ($), you'll get a couple more pts. of your DEX you can add to your total and might even hit 33, depending on your DEX.


AC Add ons - To your base shield and armour, you can add certain types of additional protection. You have a spell called Shield of Faith that scales with your level and gives you a deflection bonus. At 13th, that bonus will be +4 for you. That will give you a 34. A barkskin potion adds a natural armour bonus and you can buy +3 barkskin potions at many potion vendors. That will give you a 37. Other items/feats will give you other types of bonuses to you AC (insight, dodge, etc.) but are harder to find. The two I've listed will get you started. Note, however, that if you have two items that offer the same type of bonus, they do not stack. If you find a protection item (which gives you a deflection bonus), it will NOT stack with your Shield of Faith spell. Protection items are crazy expensive on the auction house, so my advice is to stick with the spell until you find one via quests.


Speed - absolutely key to soloing is foot speed. If you can outrun the mobs, you can keep pegging them when they can't hit you. If you look on the auction house, you'll see striding items (boots, rings, etc.) and at 13th, I think you can get the top item, +30%. Buy as high as you can afford and save for a top level pair. They are indispensable, which is why they will be expensive. Hint: jump when you cast. If you are running away, you'll slow down when you try to cast a spell. If you jump and then cast in mid-air, this doesn't happen. It takes practice, but is very useful.


Protection from Crits - key to the strategy of minimizing damage, is getting rid of those critical hits, which requires a special type of protection called Fortification. You'll find it on cloaks, rings, etc. but if you can find someone to show you around the Orchard of the Macabre, running the chests in that area for loot will give you tapestry pieces you can trade in to a guy by the Orchard for a neato helm called the Minos Legens, which gives you 100% fortification (no crits - ever) and a bunch of extra hit points (False Life). It might take you a few runs through to get all the pieces you need, but if you have a good guide, that won't take long. If you are on Khyber, look up the Hounds of Vulkoor. We've got a bunch of high level toons that can run you through the Orchard to show you around.


Damage Reduction - if you can, replace the plain +5 armour and shield combo with adamantine stuff or find a suit that features the special characteristic called Invulnerability. Both take damage right off the top from any blow you'll see. If you go the first route, adamantine weapons will still harm you. The latter route chops a bit off of everything.



b) Offense, offense, offense



Specialty Weapon Characteristics - having a good toolkit for weapons is key, too. As you come across them, try to pick up weapons with special characteristics like smiting (insta-kill constructs), disruption (insta-kill undead), paralyzation (freezes live foes in place), cursing (gives the mob a -4 to hit and saves) or with a special combination (holy of good, acid of good, etc.) that doubles up your damage. Having the right weapon for the mobs you'll be facing is very important.


Blade Barrier - As others have said, Blade Barrier is your friend. If you use the meta-magic feats (Empower, etc.) you can get that Blade Barrier doing 150 pts. every time something passes through it. You run back and forth through the blade barrier (take a loop around on each pass so you aren't running back through the guys chasing you) and you will do what is called "kiting" where they follow you like a kite on a string. A good combination of metamagic feats is Empower and Extend. You can clean up entire groups of foes with this one spell.


Insta-kill spells - this is why I LOVE clerics. Insta-kill spells come in at 9th level (which opens up Slay Living as a 5th level spell) and at 13th (which opens up Destruction as a 7th level spell). Slay Living is a touch spell, so you have to be close. Destruction is ranged. If you compare Destruction to the wizard/sorcerer spell Finger of Death, you'll see why clerics have it good. Even if the foe makes his save, he still gets 10d6 damage. Boom. If you can, boost the DC of your Necromancy spells with the feats Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and try to find an item that boots your Necromancy DC (bracers usually). Red named bosses are immune to insta-death spells, as are undead, but that's what Blade Barrier and Searing Light are for. As you hit higher levels, these will become less useful because the mobs will have Spell Resistance (SR), but you can take feats and enhancements to overcome SR (and get Spell Penetration items to help).


Debuff - Those insta-death spells are almost all Fortitude saves to resist, which means their CON bonus contributes to their saving throw. Anything you can do to reduce their saves (Doom or Curse) or nail their CON (Poison) increases your chance of insta-killing them. Get sneaky and debuff the big orange named baddie before you go in for the kill.


Potency Items - Potency items add to the amount of damage you do on spells (even healing spells on yourself). By 13th level, you should be able to get a Superior Potency VI rod or staff, which will boost all your spells 6th and below by a full 50%. Add to this by choosing enhancements that boost your negative/healing spells or light/alignment spells and simple third level spells like Searing Light will skyrocket in the amount of damage they inflict. Searing Light, btw, has NO SAVING THROW. Yep, guaranteed damage. All juiced up with a potency item and your enhancements, it's not unheard of to hit 150 odd pts. with that spell. Undead become your beeyotch.


Manage Cool Downs - when you cast a spell, there is always a cool down period before you can cast it again. If you look carefully, you'll see that the other spells in your repertoire become accessible again in a much shorter time than the spell you just cast. If you have two spells beside each other on your bars, you can alternate back and forth with them much faster than you would be able to with the same spell using repeated castings. Some good combos are Searing Light/Deific Vengeance, Destruction/Slay Living, Healing Spells, etc.



Oh, and know the quest you are going into cold before you go in. Find a walkthrough, do a little scouting run with some invisibility potions, talk to folks in the forum, etc.

Good thing you came around to teach the OP how to become more skilled eh?

[GeneralDiomedes]

As usual, the OP gets defensive about the negative posts, ignores the people who are trying to help him and rides off into the sunset.

Oh, and soloing challenges will still be there in MOD9 .. unless you never solo on Elite. Also tired of people who complain about how easy things are, yet don't take on the most difficult content.

[Hokiewa]

OK, but in the minds of many players of this game, a mid to higher level cleric has no problems soloing with or without a decent AC. So from that standpoint, your starting premise that this is not possible is not true. (we probably also need to understand where you are considering Mid level to be? Level 5? or level 11? or something in between. I assure you that once you hit level 11, you are close to being a killing machine with perhaps the single most universally deadly spell in the game BB.

What feats did you take that are so useless? I have trouble thinking of any that I would consider standard for PnP in any game I have played that are useless in DDO. (I am assuming you were not taking something like: SKill Focus: Swimming for example....)

You've explained it with far more patience then I would,+1. If he's not willing to provide details, then no one can help him. Your right, solo'ing current content at current level, i.e. level 11 quests for a level 11 cleric isn't difficult. Simple answers would provide a reason as to why this is a challange, there are plenty of people in this thread that are trying to help the OP. Regardless, the point is pretty moot with the easy store installment.

**edited in**

If your running around solo with a cleric with an ac of 30 at level 13, and your not a sorc then that's a HUGE problem right there.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

In my mind, a mid to higher level cleric should have little difficulty in soloing with a decent AC, so long as they're not zerging around like they're Superman. This is not the case. =.

That's just not true. I have two clerics, and I'm far from the best player in the game. At mid to high level they can solo just about anything, easily. They don't even need good AC.

[wolfy42]

There is a big reason why soloing should be possible in this game through all the content (not including raids). It's because often if you party you will have a quest completely ruined for you....I have had to break up parties so many times to start a new one for characters that were doing it the first time, but other people in the party wouldn't slow down for them. It's insane how many #$@#$ there are out there.

Now yes.....there are other ways to get around the problem, but being able to run through quests the first time by yourself on a lower difficulty level is not going to ruin the game or get rid of the challenge at all.

Are quests on normal difficulty level even worth doing for most of us anymore? I don't start any of them off on normally usually now when bringing up a new character since we can skip right to hard.

The new dungeon scaling has the biggest difference at normal difficulty level and much less on hard.....while almost making no difference at all on elite. You still get all the nice challenge you ever did doing those quests by yourself (and I still usually do run them solo through elite through lvl 6 or so just to get them done super fast (I don't like ruining quests for people but don't want to take the time to do them slowly either)).

Post mod 9 almost any character can solo easily through the game. If you have any rogue levels at all it will be MUCH easier, although spellcasters also will have a pretty easy time. A Rogue/wizard combo though could do it very easily indeed. A rogue 1/monk2/wizard 17 could reach some insane AC, have evasion, rogue skills, all wizard spells, plenty of hp (2 bonus toughness from monk levels) and you can base your reflex save on your int for some great saving throws as well.

[Qzipoun]

Oh, and soloing challenges will still be there in MOD9 .. unless you never solo on Elite.


Yes, and people who solo a lot (or exclusively) are happy that nothing scales on elite. However, if you solo n/h/e you will be going through "piece of cake"/"meh"/"wow this suddenly got much harder". Elite is just as fun, tough etc... but two thirds of the game has been made less appealing. What's the point of running a quest if it is of no challenge...

Adding the option to not have dungeon scaling does not affect those who want the easy button in any way whatsoever, they can keep playing scaled dungeons. They can still complain all they want about how the game is not soloable unless things are scaled. It's a win/win situation for everyone and cannot possibly be that hard to code (just force the game to assume there's 4 people in the party when it checks party size).

[wolfy42]

Yes, and people who solo a lot (or exclusively) are happy that nothing scales on elite. However, if you solo n/h/e you will be going through "piece of cake"/"meh"/"wow this suddenly got much harder". Elite is just as fun, tough etc... but two thirds of the game has been made less appealing. What's the point of running a quest if it is of no challenge...

Adding the option to not have dungeon scaling does not affect those who want the easy button in any way whatsoever, they can keep playing scaled dungeons. They can still complain all they want about how the game is not soloable unless things are scaled. It's a win/win situation for everyone and cannot possibly be that hard to code (just force the game to assume there's 4 people in the party when it checks party size).

Um hard even with dungeon scalling is still much harder then normal used to be before dungeon scalling. I tested it a ton. In fact hard does not change that much from a full party to only 1 person in difficulty. I would say it's about 80% as difficult as it is on the live servers right now on hard by yourself.

So yes it's a bit easier...but not a TON easier.

Meanwhile you don't have to run quests on normal AT ALL anymore....you can start right on hard....so seriously if your looking for a challenge...and like to solo, just start on hard and you'll get more of a challenge then you did before on normal, but not quite as much as you did before on hard.

Want a big challenge? Run it on elite...if there is any reduction at all it's almost impossible to notice.

So what has changed?

New players now can play through quests by themselves the first time even if there is no "solo" option on the quest. Normal difficulty on quests has dropped by almost 50% for a single player making many of the quests that required alot of skill, equipment, items, money spent, time and knowledge to solo to be MUCH easier now.

New players can um...not get stuck at lvl 6-7 or so basically when they can not find a good group to party that won't ruin everything for them.

Old players who like a challenge solo.....STILL can get it...and in fact now that we don't have to do the dumb quests on normal difficulty....we can actually jump into the challenge MUCH faster:)

I didn't do a quest on normal at all with the last quest I ran through. Either I did it on solo (because it was the only option) or I did it on hard (sometimes repeatedly...like kobolds new ringleader to zoom him through the levels early on fast).

Solo play on hard.....is a decent challenge. It's not mega easy (like solo on normal is now for many quests). Honestly I never did quests on solo when solo even if it was an option because it is just too easy (especially with twinked new characters which is so much easier to do now with a shared bank).

But seriously how can you be unhappy with new characters getting to play a difficulty of quests (which you will rarely if ever even touch yourself) that allows them to play solo fairly effectively?

Again...hard is not massively affected by dungeon scaling. Elite seems to be almost increased in small ways (noticed some enemies hitting HARDER when solo then with a party but may have just been a one time thing..didn't have enough time to test it).

I do know the difference on elite is minor.

The difference on hard is noticable...but there is still plenty of challange left...and honestly if you don't find it challenging on hard now...you wouldn't before so you would have just been running through to open it up on elite for a real challenge anyway.

Dungeon scalling opens up a ton of quests for new characters that are forced (or choose) to play solo. It does not affect long term players really since most of us will not even bother with normal difficulty quests anymore. If your running for favor you'll either start on hard and then run elite, or you'll join a group that already has elite opened. If your running for a challenge you'll start on hard for sure. So who could possibly object about normal being made easier? Why do you care if the game is easier for other players?

I applaud turbine for finding a way to open the game up for more casual players who can not party all the time but still want to enjoy exploring a new quest.

I do admit that rushing a character up through the early levels is MUCH faster now (2x as fast just about) as pre mod 9. The 20% base bonus to exp along with the removal of exp penalties for level differences and the ability to run quests more times without a large penalty to exp gained drastically increases possible exp...and the rate you can get exp. The game IS easier...that is true.......but mainly it just streamlines things for those of us that have done it all again (so we can get to the upper content with new characters faster) while making it more player friendly for new players coming into the game.

The challenge though is certainly still there, in fact it is greater if you play it right. Now you don't need to run quests on normal first....so you can start off on a harder difficulty level right away solo if you want. Even a twinked character can have a problem with many quests on hard solo if you are not rushing around leveling up and repeating other quests etc first.

[EinarMal]

Lot's of great stuff...

Very well said, I cannot see a down side to letting newer players learn the game, and I agree it is often better if you can spend some time in quests exploring and learning them rather than being rushed along by vets who know every twist and turn.

Plus if it keeps a few more new people around, and keeps a few more people that like to solo only good, we need all the $$$ coming in as possible so MAYBE my poor Bard can finally get Tier III enhancements after waiting for fricking 2 years.

[BlackSteel]

This is exactly what I am saying but much more well put. A new player should be able to take any build template that is offered, and solo the game at some difficulty level to learn on their own pace if they want to. At least I believe this is very critical to the success of MMO games. It should not have to be a caster or an advanced twinked build designed just for solo, you shouldn't need to know every single quest inside and out etc...

ANY build can go out into an explorer zone and get experience. Its grindtastic, and much slower than actual questing, but it is possible.

[KKDragonLord]

I applaud turbine for finding a way to open the game up for more casual players who can not party all the time but still want to enjoy exploring a new quest.


Good point.

[EinarMal]

ANY build can go out into an explorer zone and get experience. Its grindtastic, and much slower than actual questing, but it is possible.

That is not learning quests or getting familiar with the real game, which was his point and mine as well. Also, that is actually not true at higher levels the explorer zones can in some cases be harder than many of the quests in that area.

[Maxmillian]

DDO is a game of teamwork and friends. However, that being said, I do understand where you are coming from, and I am sure it is not because of a lack of friends. I am sure that schedules conflict and buddies are hard to come up with. Run some toons with other parties that you have played with. If they like you, and you play your role, and don't screw up a run and get the party wiped, then they will run with you again and again. Just add them to your friends list. Most people with enough guts will tell you if they are not interested in playing on a certain run with your specific toon. Also, if your a cleric, be flattered that they are asking for your help. You are doing something that they can't do, or they have to splash, or have to have a UMD of insanity to do. Go with them, name your terms, know your role. Biggest thing I can tell you, let em know if your a battle cleric or not....people like to know what to expect. If you like this reply click, click, click.

[gaki]

Good thing you came around to teach the OP how to become more skilled eh?

No, it's a good thing I care enough about people to give two sh*ts when they are frustrated instead of coming in solely to mock him for his supposed lack of skill or shift the thread to a discussion on how much of the game should be solo material.

In a lot of ways, the worst aspect of this game is the player base. I've never seen so many holier than thou's who get their jones from making other people feel badly. And people wonder why the game has so few subscribers and the few they have are asking for more solo material. With so many quality pugmates around to pick from, who woulda thunk!

[KKDragonLord]

yeah i hate "holier than thou's"
especially hypocritical ones.

if you hadn't come around to tell the OP all the things other people had already said and he had already ignored completely, and all the things so obvious most people didn't even consider mentioning to a person who claims to have a mid-to-high lvl toon... boy, i can't imagine how else he would get any help around here...

I think its just swell that you really enjoy helping others, free of charge, without assuming they don't know nearly nothing about the game.

[Nikmal]

What you guys have for content is great but it's not good to anyone if they can't run it by themselves when they want or need to. '

You do realize that this IS a MULTI Massive online role playing game right? MULTI implies that you need mulitple people to play it. This is a group based game in the pen and paper game it is based on.. AND in the online game too. So I am not sure why you feel the need to solo so often. If you are having so much in the way of finding a group might I suggest finding a guild?

[wolfy42]

You do realize that this IS a MULTI Massive online role playing game right? MULTI implies that you need mulitple people to play it. This is a group based game in the pen and paper game it is based on.. AND in the online game too. So I am not sure why you feel the need to solo so often. If you are having so much in the way of finding a group might I suggest finding a guild?

First most of the big MMO's throughout the history of MMO's (Everquest/DAoC/CoH/WoW etc) have all had solo aspects. DDO is an MMO and it does not need to be a multiplayer only MMO. In fact honestly the only true multiplayer MMO's revolve almost completely around PvP...and even many of those still have a decent amount of solo content.

But D&D is meant to be played as a group!!

Wrong...I've played many games with just 1 person and a DM (me) in the past, and in fact DnD when broken down to it's basic form works just fine solo. It certainly is more fun (usually) to play with a group of people...but you don't have to do so to enjoy the game.

Now DDO isn't a traditional MMO and it's not traditional D&D either. It can in fact already be solo'd mostly with skill and time invested.

There is no reason why players can not enjoy the game on it's easiest difficulty levels (or at least a large portion of it) by themselves. This allows them to not have the content that is available ruined by other players that have run the content 200+ times and don't have any patience anymore for someone who is just starting.

If you want to party all the time more power to you. I personally still think most quests are more fun in a party...even a pug....but I seriously appreciate the ability to zoom through the early levels solo so much faster. I really don't get any enjoyment running a character up through lvl 10-12 at this point, I have done it too many times. The new solo options allow you to HALVE the time to mid levels easily...which is great for new and old characters. It helps new characters get to experience the quests on normal difficulty by themselves so they know what they are doing when they run them on hard/elite with you later, and it lets experienced players SKIP normal all together and jump right in on hard.

This makes the game much more in alignment with other MMO's out there, and not in a bad way. The F2p aspect may be negative (may get a bunch of kids playing, more lag, etc) but the ability for players to solo has been around already for along time. Now it has just been made more universal and defined. Normal difficulty for the most part is for brand new players who are doing a quest the first time...and it will scale in difficulty to the number of other new players you can find to do the quest. Rarely will you even find experienced players who want to run a quest on normal.....and if they want to zerg it they could just do it themselves now. So it's far less likely that new players are going to have their quests ruined.

For those of us that know the quests like the back of our hand and can run it even with the new anti-zerg measures in record speed.....nothing changes much. We just skip normal all together...possibly can zoom through hard by ourselves to open up elite (hard is a bit um...less hard now basically but not a massive difference if your solo)....and then run it on elite like normal. It makes opening the quests up on elite ourselves easier then before...so running for favor will be a bit easier.

In the end the point of the game is to have fun. The changes do not detract from the fun old players have at all...in fact they allow us to spend less time doing things we were probably NOT going to have fun doing. In addition it makes it more likely that pugs will have semi-decent players at least...who have finished whatever quest we will be doing at least once by themselves.

Meanwhile it opens up a ton more of the game to casual gamers who can not party much for one reason or another.

For example, say you are a parent at home with 2 children....you love DDO but you have to watch your kids as well, make them snacks, set them up to do their homework etc. You could go into a quest that takes 2-3 hours to finish.....and complete it eventually throughout the day even though you are taking constant 5-10 minute breaks. You could never do that with a group....they would just leave you behind and you would miss the whole quest.

Casual gamers that need to take many breaks when playing and rarely have more then 15-20 minutes of undisturbed playing time had it really hard in the past on DDO. They could get to the mid levels pretty easy (6-7) and then if they were persistent they could keep going from there a bit...but mainly had to team up at least a bit to do so.

Now in theory at least that casual player will be able to finish 90% of the content by themselves. When they do have time to actually group they could work on the last 10% (probably on the weekend). This is not a negative thing at all. They still won't be able to get 1750 favor even probably (elites by themselves are going to be hard still), but they can explore most of the game...and solve most of the quests.

This is only a good thing for DDO......a boost for both long term players and new players. I am slightly worried about the influx of a ton of f2p players slowing down the game....but otherwise I am extremely happy with the changes being implimented.

[Hokiewa]

You do realize that this IS a MULTI Massive online role playing game right? MULTI implies that you need mulitple people to play it. This is a group based game in the pen and paper game it is based on.. AND in the online game too. So I am not sure why you feel the need to solo so often. If you are having so much in the way of finding a group might I suggest finding a guild?

Agreed. It's been pointed out a dozen times in this thread that soloing a high level caster isn't difficult. People have asked for specific build information to simply help the OP out but he has constantly refused to provide answers.

Bottom line....Yes it's a group game, DnD is a group game, MMO's by definition are a group game; however, this game can be solo'd by almost any class without raid loot, without twinking. If the OP was willing to learn instead of simply crying to make the game EVEN MORE easy, this thread could get somewhere. However, it can't. The best people to run with are always those willing to learn. Those that aren't willing to accept help....well we all know that refrain.

The OP is a beginning player, we all get that. There's nothing wrong with that in the least. But if he/she is unwilling to accept help about soloing(a non-focused portion of the game) then is absolutely nothing anyone can do. The game will become so easy to solo with Mod 9 that even the OP, with a 30 ac and 13th level cleric will easily (one would hope) solo most content in the game. Meh

[suitepotato]

To the OP if you're still reading...

Solo will be much improved soon. Just hang on for the new mod/reboot/whatever that just ended beta.

Favored Souls are an excellent solo class, but need tweaking to be good solo machines past level 10 normal, level 8 hard, level 6 elite. Up to there the Holy Avenger path/build works well.

Gold seal hirelings from the new store will help you make your own parties very nicely. Just take time to learn the hirelings' peculiarities one by one normal before laying out for the essentially identical gold seal versions. Like Frenzy the wf, who is probably the only hireling who will smash every crate in every quest if you let him.

Some monsters are harder to solo than others. Undead are a seriously out of whack class of enemy who on hard at the vampire heart series in the House P necropolis can make you want to drink. Wildmen throwing feeblemind at will at Ataraxia absolutely suck. Eventually you hit on ways to deal with them. Preparation, patience, and the ability to go do something else and come back when you're fresh are needed.

Going back to easy stuff and pwning the noob monsters will sometimes make you feel like a conquering hero for a bit and it's fun to get revenge on monsters who used to annoy. Like the witch doctors at WW.

Some classes are way better soloing some quests. Invaders is a sorc assassin build friendly dungeon. Ranger swordsman, not so much.

Make sure to move slow and careful, don't get in more than you can handle at once, clear every area. Solo requires more annoying grinding than with a party because a party is busy destroying stuff that you don't have to unless you're by yourself.

When you can finally get a good tier 3 weapon or two built at the shroud, it will go far towards solo play the rest of the time. Nothing like five or six damage values in a row on a single hit.

That's all I got. So in short: go slow, have patience, be ready to try again later, prepare well, hirelings wherever you need a distraction, and oh yeah, haste haste haste. Haste pots and clickies always. A jump pot or two, and you can get up out of the way and throw hell down on your pursuers' heads. Until they path to you and you have to run again.

[Nikmal]

First most of the big MMO's throughout the history of MMO's (Everquest/DAoC/CoH/WoW etc) have all had solo aspects. DDO is an MMO and it does not need to be a multiplayer only MMO. In fact honestly the only true multiplayer MMO's revolve almost completely around PvP...and even many of those still have a decent amount of solo content.
All MMO's have SOME content but that does not mean that they were designed around solo content. Just because they have it does not mean that the MMO is STILL not based on GROUP content and not solo.
But D&D is meant to be played as a group!!

Wrong...I've played many games with just 1 person and a DM (me) in the past, and in fact DnD when broken down to it's basic form works just fine solo. It certainly is more fun (usually) to play with a group of people...but you don't have to do so to enjoy the game.
BTW just because you have played single player game again does NOT mean that D&D was not designed as a group player game.If you had bothered to have red what you are quoting me on instead you would have seen that I said DESIGNED. Just because you can play with a single player AND a DM does not mean you are going solo.. you still NEED two people to play, which is the DM and you the player. Unless you know something I don't and considering I have played D&D pen and paper since 1974 I highly doubt you know more then I do. Not saying I know more but I most certainly do not know less. So again do not put words in to my mouth.

Now DDO isn't a traditional MMO and it's not traditional D&D either. It can in fact already be solo'd mostly with skill and time invested.I never said that it could not be solo'ed, what I did say is that it was not designed to be solo'ed but as a group game. the keyword being "DESIGNED"

There is no reason why players can not enjoy the game on it's easiest difficulty levels (or at least a large portion of it) by themselves. This allows them to not have the content that is available ruined by other players that have run the content 200+ times and don't have any patience anymore for someone who is just starting.

If you want to party all the time more power to you. I personally still think most quests are more fun in a party...even a pug....but I seriously appreciate the ability to zoom through the early levels solo so much faster. I really don't get any enjoyment running a character up through lvl 10-12 at this point, I have done it too many times. The new solo options allow you to HALVE the time to mid levels easily...which is great for new and old characters. It helps new characters get to experience the quests on normal difficulty by themselves so they know what they are doing when they run them on hard/elite with you later, and it lets experienced players SKIP normal all together and jump right in on hard.
More power to you.. again if you are responding to my quote which you seem to be doing here, I never said you could not solo.

This makes the game much more in alignment with other MMO's out there, and not in a bad way. The F2p aspect may be negative (may get a bunch of kids playing, more lag, etc) but the ability for players to solo has been around already for along time. Now it has just been made more universal and defined. Normal difficulty for the most part is for brand new players who are doing a quest the first time...and it will scale in difficulty to the number of other new players you can find to do the quest. Rarely will you even find experienced players who want to run a quest on normal.....and if they want to zerg it they could just do it themselves now. So it's far less likely that new players are going to have their quests ruined.

For those of us that know the quests like the back of our hand and can run it even with the new anti-zerg measures in record speed.....nothing changes much. We just skip normal all together...possibly can zoom through hard by ourselves to open up elite (hard is a bit um...less hard now basically but not a massive difference if your solo)....and then run it on elite like normal. It makes opening the quests up on elite ourselves easier then before...so running for favor will be a bit easier.

In the end the point of the game is to have fun. The changes do not detract from the fun old players have at all...in fact they allow us to spend less time doing things we were probably NOT going to have fun doing. In addition it makes it more likely that pugs will have semi-decent players at least...who have finished whatever quest we will be doing at least once by themselves.

Meanwhile it opens up a ton more of the game to casual gamers who can not party much for one reason or another.

For example, say you are a parent at home with 2 children....you love DDO but you have to watch your kids as well, make them snacks, set them up to do their homework etc. You could go into a quest that takes 2-3 hours to finish.....and complete it eventually throughout the day even though you are taking constant 5-10 minute breaks. You could never do that with a group....they would just leave you behind and you would miss the whole quest.

Casual gamers that need to take many breaks when playing and rarely have more then 15-20 minutes of undisturbed playing time had it really hard in the past on DDO. They could get to the mid levels pretty easy (6-7) and then if they were persistent they could keep going from there a bit...but mainly had to team up at least a bit to do so.

Now in theory at least that casual player will be able to finish 90% of the content by themselves. When they do have time to actually group they could work on the last 10% (probably on the weekend). This is not a negative thing at all. They still won't be able to get 1750 favor even probably (elites by themselves are going to be hard still), but they can explore most of the game...and solve most of the quests.

This is only a good thing for DDO......a boost for both long term players and new players. I am slightly worried about the influx of a ton of f2p players slowing down the game....but otherwise I am extremely happy with the changes being implimented.
You keep harping on casual gamers and solo play, but I never once stated that you could not solo at all.. just that it was not designed to be a solo player game. If you the player can and do solo then good for you. But the OP should not come on here and complain that the designers NEED to develop solo play for a game that is designed to be grouped with. He does not like it then well he needs to go to a single player game then. It is not about making it so easy that it can be solo'ed for each quest or even a raid. Since both D&D pen and paper and DDO are designed to be grouped.

I would never say it can't be done just that it should not be made easier because the OP finds it to difficult for HIM.

[bellack]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. And it's not even the fact that solo content, per se, stops at level 7 - which is ridiculous. At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC - and no, no one should have to be a twink either - it completely boggles my mind that I get torn apart my mobs several levels lower than me when exploring around zones like the Sands or Ataraxia. Oh sure, I can kill them, but not in anyway that's remotely efficient or fun - that is to say having to recall every few minutes after my mana's blown from nuking and healing, because meleeing mobs even with divine power and prayer that are still several levels lower than me will rip me to shreds without healing.

What you guys have for content is great but it's not good to anyone if they can't run it by themselves when they want or need to. This is probably the single biggest limiting factor of the game and the main reason why DDO is not a major commercial success - than and the need to get new content out on a regular basis. You won't see me hanging around for a year giving you money for nothing. You need to retool a lot of these quests, not just so people can solo them, but party quests too.

I look at my adventure compendium for stuff I haven't done - for favor for my 32 pointer, very bad decision/implementation of that btw - I advertise for it and no one wants to do it because the XP/loot isn't good enough relative to the difficulty and length of XYZ quest. Yet I'm inundated all day long with requests to come to Gianthold - so much so that I have to go anon a lot of the time. That's just silly. What's the point of having a pile of content no one wants to run? This should be raising red flags for you guys. Alarm bells should be ringing. Say what you want about WoW, love it or hate it, but being able to solo and party when and where you like is the reason they have 12 million people and every other MOG is lucky to have 100k plus.

Don't get me wrong, I really like DDO, and I like Turbine, but after a month into the game now I'm starting to see these glaring issues. It's stuff like this that will keep people from (re)subbing. Being forced to wait around and do stuff you don't really want to do isn't fun. And like the man said, it's not so bad to have some fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place? It's like James Woods said in Family Guy, 'Well that sounds like a "fun time", Peter. Tell me, where exactly does James Woods fit into the "fun time"?'

Yes there is dungeon scaling for easy mode which you seem to want but you can also get a bunch of hirlings. I solo a lot but I never use the 'Solo' setting because it simply is not challanging. Hirlings are pretty good now so far but if you don't want to use them then that is your call. But I don't want Turbine to dumb down and wimpify the Dungeons nore than they already are just becasue you can't solo them.

[bellack]

Get over it!

Soloing is not as important as you think it is. There are plenty of single player games out there go play them. This is an MMO not a single player game.

By the way if you have the time and the resources soloing is not that hard. There are plenty of consumables that can get you through a quest past level 6. And with the shop coming you can buy your way through soloing.

The REAL joy of this game is playing with friends and that is what DDO is all about. If you have not figured that out maybe it is time you looked to making some friends.

Playing with friends is fun but this game can be played solo and it can still be every bit as fun. So what if it is an MMO it can still be soloed. Don't listen to these people that say you have to join other players to have fun in an MMO.

[bellack]

In a lot of ways, the worst aspect of this game is the player base. I've never seen so many holier than thou's who get their jones from making other people feel badly. And people wonder why the game has so few subscribers and the few they have are asking for more solo material. With so many quality pugmates around to pick from, who woulda thunk!

So then this is your first MMO. Well welcome to the wonderful realm of MMO's because this behavior has exsited in just about every MMO that has ever come out.

[Deusxmachina]

In a lot of ways, the worst aspect of this game is the player base. I've never seen so many holier than thou's who get their jones from making other people feel badly.

Do you play on Khyber or something?

Generally, the most "holier than thou" I've seen is something rather tactful like, "Player X, do you have any healing potions? Your hitpoints have been low for awhile now, and the cleric is out of spell points."

This, of course, happens when "holier than thou" people get tired of babysitting other players who by level 10 should know how to be at least a little self-sufficient. Ran one like that tonight, actually. The level 13 or so caster having 10hp left between fights in a tough quest, and making no effort to heal themselves with a wand or potion. I can see people doing that if a healing cleric is there and has decent sp, but, in this one, the cleric not only ran out of juice, but then the party got separated.

Being over level 10, in a tough, elite quest, and you don't have any way to heal yourself? I wouldn't have begrudged anyone in the party if they had said, "Drink a pot, n00b."

[hermespan]

At 13 as a human cleric with 30AC

Therein lies the problem. They'll cut you like soft butter.

Sands mobs will shred you with a 30AC if they are the same as they were when sands was put in the game.

You need to group up with dps and a tank or consider a battle-cleric build. Sands is _not_ solo content unless you really know what you are doing and have a serious solo build. The standard healer model won't cut it at your level and AC.

[Wizzly_Bear]

beyond level 6. I shouldn't have to have an ultra-specific build to be able to solo decently. [snip] Being forced to wait around and do stuff you don't really want to do isn't fun. And like the man said, it's not so bad to have some fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place? It's like James Woods said in Family Guy, 'Well that sounds like a "fun time", Peter. Tell me, where exactly does James Woods fit into the "fun time"?'
develop your skills, builds, and gear and you can solo easily all the way through DDO. many of us do it all the time. and noone is forcing you to wait around and do stuff that isnt fun. you play what you want how you want. if noone else wants to play your way then solo it.

[Iakona]

Don't get me wrong, I really like DDO, and I like Turbine, but after a month into the game now I'm starting to see these glaring issues. It's stuff like this that will keep people from (re)subbing. Being forced to wait around and do stuff you don't really want to do isn't fun. And like the man said, it's not so bad to have some fun. Isn't that why we're here in the first place? It's like James Woods said in Family Guy, 'Well that sounds like a "fun time", Peter. Tell me, where exactly does James Woods fit into the "fun time"?'

Here's a novel idea! GROUP. It's a S O C I A L game. Find a good guild. Find a static group. Group and find friends to add to your friend's list. LEARN HOW TO USE THE LFM/LFG SYSTEM instead of standing in one zone wasting time spamming a general chat channel. Learn how to play the game the way ALL D&D games have been played since they were first put to pen and paper (and long before DDO was ever conceived).

Quit whining about not being able to SOLO or go to a game like WOW that is SO boring it's pathetic because EVERYONE solos to end cap. This game has adventure, it allows for explorations without grinding. It offers something new at every level of play. It is SO SO SO much better then the pathetic solo grind to end cap games! And it draws a HUGE crowd that loves it that way and are leaving pathetic boring games like WOW to come here and play.

It would absolutely R U I N this game to make soloing easy for the very few people that want to do that. Developers we love the game as is. It's why we come here and STAY. Don't ruin a great game over a minority of players. PLEASE!

And get this - the F2P player not paying a dime to play wants Turbine to make it easier for a lvl 6 cleric to solo? OMG the easiest soloing class in the game? And he wants to solo because HE can't find a decent group of players. A cleric having trouble finding a group? Anyone actually thought that if a cleric at lvl 6 can't solo in DDO, and can't get groups, it might just be that the other players in the groups lack of game skills isn't the problem? This sounds more and more like an incompetent player with no gaming skills wants someone to make game play easier for themselves. What a troll.

[Missing_Minds]

wow... this thread has been necro'd... twice!

Must be a scrag.

[binnsr]

Therein lies the problem. They'll cut you like soft butter.

Sands mobs will shred you with a 30AC if they are the same as they were when sands was put in the game.

You need to group up with dps and a tank or consider a battle-cleric build. Sands is _not_ solo content unless you really know what you are doing and have a serious solo build. The standard healer model won't cut it at your level and AC.

baloney. All a lvl13 cleric needs is a blade barrier and reavers ring. get maximize and/or empower and/or quicken (the more the better) and the Desert and the Orchard become your playground.

[Grond]

wow... this thread has been necro'd... twice!

Must be a scrag.

Jake, get the diesel fuel...