wolfy42
08-09-2009, 02:59 PM
For some reason when trying to sleep last night I started thinking about how many hp a character can have base now at lvl 20. I was trying to figure out what class/race combination would give the most hp.
First for race it was a toss up between dwarf/warforged and human.
I think human actually pulls out just a tiny bit ahead because you can take an extra toughness.
2 more con = 20 more hp at lvl 20....but 1 more toughness = 22 more hp at lvl 20.
Everything else seems to even out. All get +2 racial con enhancements eventually, and all can max out the toughness enhancement line as well. So I think human barely squeeks out a few more hp then WF or Dwarf (also as human you could boost how much you are healed for significantly).
Again because of toughness I decided that 6 monk levels is almost required. The question was between 2 monk levels (With 2 bonus toughness) or 6. The solution was simple ......4 monk lvls * 4 less base hp then a barbarian = 16 less total hp by lvl 20 vs 22 more hp from the bonus toughness at lvl 6. Add in the next turtle enhancement and 6 monk levels is required.
All other class levels should be barbarian then for the 12 base hp per level. You could sacrifice a few barbarian levels (you need 10 at least for the +3 con enhancement though) if you want 4 levels in something else..but you would lose at least 2 hp per level that way...and no other class can grab extra toughness to compensate.
So base stats without any bonuses from equipment or buffs would then be as a human monk 6/warforged 14:
Con = 18+5 (levels)+2(race enhancement)+3(class enhancement)+2 (earth stance)=30 (earth stance isn't a buff...as it's permanent) 10 bonus hp per lvl = 200 bonus hp
6 monk lvls = 48 hp
14 barbarian lvls = 168 hp
11 toughness feats (1/3/6/9/12/15/18, 3 from monk, 1 from human)= 242 hp
Heroic bonus hp at creation = 20
patient tortouse II = 10 hp
Racial toughness IV = 40 hp
Favor bonus hp = 10 (not a buff...since it's permanent and not eq dependant)
Total = 738 base hp before equipment or buffs.
As a side benefiet you can boost healing from items/spells by 40%...so a heal spell would fill up as much of your health bar as someone with 40% less hp then you (well someone who isn't human at least hehe).
With just permanent equipment boosts (+6 con and GFL) you gain another 150 hp.
Total would then be 888 hp:)
All other effects like rage bonuses would be temporary (But should be able to get you over 1k max hp). I think 888 hp though is a nice base running around/unbuffed hp.
Imagine a lvl 20 cleric specialized in healing casting heal spells on you....you would have to be getting WAILED on to notice it. Has anyone though of using max hp instead of DR or AC long term for tanking?
You could drop all the way down to 10 barbarian without giving up too many hp (But you'd lose the pretty 888 max hp). Some of it could be compensated for by taking additional monk levels though and you would be able to get improved monk recovery 2 (making you heal 50% more total). Since you get monk way of the turtle 3...the net loss in hp is only 11 points....so you would end up with 877 max hp...but heal 50% more (probably worth it..although not absolutely max hp anymore.
A lvl 20 cleric with empower healing and devotion items etc could still cast heal on your when you were at 50% of max health and not waste any healing (and you would still have more max health at that point then most characters when they are at full health).
If you go with the 10/10 split though you lose out on a bunch of rage bonus hp...strength bonus from rage etc. Might make you less effective.
Also the question becomes if you can keep hate with such a build since you have no feats spent for anything but max hp. Still barbarian damage while raged with a 2handed weapon especially if you run out in front and initiate combat should keep enemies pounding on you fairly well.
I'm going to check out some of the new changes in the beta to higher lvl barbarians and see if there is anything else I can toss in...and help determine if 10/10 or 14/6 is the better split.
First for race it was a toss up between dwarf/warforged and human.
I think human actually pulls out just a tiny bit ahead because you can take an extra toughness.
2 more con = 20 more hp at lvl 20....but 1 more toughness = 22 more hp at lvl 20.
Everything else seems to even out. All get +2 racial con enhancements eventually, and all can max out the toughness enhancement line as well. So I think human barely squeeks out a few more hp then WF or Dwarf (also as human you could boost how much you are healed for significantly).
Again because of toughness I decided that 6 monk levels is almost required. The question was between 2 monk levels (With 2 bonus toughness) or 6. The solution was simple ......4 monk lvls * 4 less base hp then a barbarian = 16 less total hp by lvl 20 vs 22 more hp from the bonus toughness at lvl 6. Add in the next turtle enhancement and 6 monk levels is required.
All other class levels should be barbarian then for the 12 base hp per level. You could sacrifice a few barbarian levels (you need 10 at least for the +3 con enhancement though) if you want 4 levels in something else..but you would lose at least 2 hp per level that way...and no other class can grab extra toughness to compensate.
So base stats without any bonuses from equipment or buffs would then be as a human monk 6/warforged 14:
Con = 18+5 (levels)+2(race enhancement)+3(class enhancement)+2 (earth stance)=30 (earth stance isn't a buff...as it's permanent) 10 bonus hp per lvl = 200 bonus hp
6 monk lvls = 48 hp
14 barbarian lvls = 168 hp
11 toughness feats (1/3/6/9/12/15/18, 3 from monk, 1 from human)= 242 hp
Heroic bonus hp at creation = 20
patient tortouse II = 10 hp
Racial toughness IV = 40 hp
Favor bonus hp = 10 (not a buff...since it's permanent and not eq dependant)
Total = 738 base hp before equipment or buffs.
As a side benefiet you can boost healing from items/spells by 40%...so a heal spell would fill up as much of your health bar as someone with 40% less hp then you (well someone who isn't human at least hehe).
With just permanent equipment boosts (+6 con and GFL) you gain another 150 hp.
Total would then be 888 hp:)
All other effects like rage bonuses would be temporary (But should be able to get you over 1k max hp). I think 888 hp though is a nice base running around/unbuffed hp.
Imagine a lvl 20 cleric specialized in healing casting heal spells on you....you would have to be getting WAILED on to notice it. Has anyone though of using max hp instead of DR or AC long term for tanking?
You could drop all the way down to 10 barbarian without giving up too many hp (But you'd lose the pretty 888 max hp). Some of it could be compensated for by taking additional monk levels though and you would be able to get improved monk recovery 2 (making you heal 50% more total). Since you get monk way of the turtle 3...the net loss in hp is only 11 points....so you would end up with 877 max hp...but heal 50% more (probably worth it..although not absolutely max hp anymore.
A lvl 20 cleric with empower healing and devotion items etc could still cast heal on your when you were at 50% of max health and not waste any healing (and you would still have more max health at that point then most characters when they are at full health).
If you go with the 10/10 split though you lose out on a bunch of rage bonus hp...strength bonus from rage etc. Might make you less effective.
Also the question becomes if you can keep hate with such a build since you have no feats spent for anything but max hp. Still barbarian damage while raged with a 2handed weapon especially if you run out in front and initiate combat should keep enemies pounding on you fairly well.
I'm going to check out some of the new changes in the beta to higher lvl barbarians and see if there is anything else I can toss in...and help determine if 10/10 or 14/6 is the better split.