Taking bets on Assassin Ring

[Draccus]

So we now have an idea of what the DDO:EU item sets are going to look like. It's probably going to be a Belt or Necklace combined with a ring. The Tempest ring was pulled last night so we also have an idea of what bonuses we can expect.

The belt/necklace for an Assassin has +6 Con and Proof against Poison. Nice.

The Tempest Ring has +6 Dex and +1 exceptional Wiz. That's a pretty good deal for Tempest Rangers since the vast majority if them are strength based and they can also wear Levik's Bracers for their strength item without wasting a slot.

When I saw the format, my first thought was "That's great as long as they don't put +6 Dex on the assassin ring." +6 Dex would be absolute worst stat they could put on the assassin set since the current raid loot rogue set (Tharne's) has +6 Dex on the bracers. Putting +6 dex on the ring would be redundant, short sighted, and yet another slap in the face to rogues.

So who wants to bet that the Assassin Ring has +6 Dex? I'll bet a million gold, right here, right now. Any takers?

(and, yes, I'm being melodramatic on Turbine's love of Rangers and hatred or Rogues...deal with it :))

I think the perfect assassin ring would be +6 Strength, +1 exceptional Int but I bet we get +6 Dex.

[Kiranselie]

I was thinking along the lines of +6 int, and exceptional dex +1 myself. Seems that would be the most likely pairing because of assassinate DC's being Int based. That being said, I hope they go w/ str 6 and exceptional Int.

Dunno, I guess we'll see when I get to try and pull the next set in 2 days (or whenever they open the raid again) :D

[QuantumFX]

I wouldn’t take it too badly. Look at the item set bonus: Extra Sneak Attack and threat reduction. Maybe it’s a way to try and help insure assassins don’t have to have a cookie cutter equipment layout?

ex. Mentau Goggles + Assassin Set + Litany of the Dead. vs. Tharnes + Bloodstone.

Edit: Anyway we will all want the Acrobat set and an Air Guard item anyway!

[Visty]

imo the assasins ring should have int+6

[SableShadow]

Random Dev: "They want WHAT?!?! Everyone knows what Assassin's need is more trap skills, since they won't have any enhancements for those. They'll take +6 wis, +3 ex wis skillz and they will LIKE IT!!!!11!!!!"

:D

I kid, I kid...stop rolling on the random damage table already! :(

[Kiranselie]

Actually, I dont think we need to worry about it much anyway. We'll probably see whatever it is on the Turbine store for 190pts when the mod goes live :D

[hcarr]

+13 to sneak and hide wouldnt totally surprise me one bit considering the capstone.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I agree with the OP, +6 dex would be a HUGE mistake. Not only are not all rogues dex focussed, the best rogue item in the game other than this set has dex on it already. It would be similarily foolish to put +6 wis on the cleric item for example.


I was thinking along the lines of +6 int, and exceptional dex +1 myself. Seems that would be the most likely pairing because of assassinate DC's being Int based. That being said, I hope they go w/ str 6 and exceptional Int.


Either of those would be good choices, with +6int being the more thematically appropriate.

[kingfisher]

I was thinking along the lines of +6 int, and exceptional dex +1 myself. Seems that would be the most likely pairing because of assassinate DC's being Int based.

bet the house

[kamimitsu]

I'd most prefer if it replaced/upgraded my Ring of Shadows.

Make it +15 Hide/MS and 15% Blur and I'd be a very happy man.

[Draccus]

I'd most prefer if it replaced/upgraded my Ring of Shadows.

Make it +15 Hide/MS and 15% Blur and I'd be a very happy man.

No thanks. In my opinion, the need for an additional 15 stealth is so situational that it's not worth taking up a slot. I think we're going to see the same pattern on all the ring that we saw on the Tempest ring:

+6 stat
+1 exceptional stat
Set bonus
Ability to add Tier 3 Crafting upgrade.

I like +6 Int, +1 exceptional Dex.

[skinnydancer]

has everyone forgotten the Tumbleweed ring most rogues are wearing now?

[Vivanto]

When I saw the format, my first thought was "That's great as long as they don't put +6 Dex on the assassin ring." +6 Dex would be absolute worst stat they could put on the assassin set since the current raid loot rogue set (Tharne's) has +6 Dex on the bracers. Putting +6 dex on the ring would be redundant, short sighted, and yet another slap in the face to rogues.

While I agree that simply +6 dex would be a bit "meh" for several reasons, on a sidenote I've gotta disagree with the tharne's set :p

It's a nice item, but if you wan't ac, you really wan't raiment and a +8 ac bracer. Adittionally if you're using dt armors, the ac bonus is redundant already making that bracer less useful. Finally, even if you're not worried about ac since shouldn't have aggro, you can just pick up the 2nd piece of the set on armor, as the 3-piece-set is useless, and put something more useful on bracers, like leviks.

The really good, must have item for rogues from that set is the goggles, bracer is bleh.

[Vivanto]

has everyone forgotten the Tumbleweed ring most rogues are wearing now?

That's a no-brainer. If the new ring also has +6 dex, you just vendor trash the weed, or put in bank. The +2 to-hit won't make much of a difference.

[skinnydancer]

I agree most rogues use robes/light armor..so a armor6 bonus is ****..yeah the GT option is nice but u can get that from spectral gloves..granted its only dex5 but u still get a +2 to hit with em and my glove slot right now is for my greensteel hitpt item or backstabbers gloves

[Freeman]

has everyone forgotten the Tumbleweed ring most rogues are wearing now?

Most rogues wear this? I see many more rangers than rogues going for it. Most rogues prefer the set bonus from Tharnes(Unless you are lucky enough to get it on the DT armor). The +2 to hit doesn't matter against most mobs, and if you have a bard in the party, you'll get the same bonus anyway.

[SEMPER]

I think it will be either +6 intel +1dex or +6 str +1 intel but we will see soon enough

[Gorstag]

Well, my assassin rogue is wearing tharne's bracers and the tumbleweed. I would personally love to see a ring without dex as I am already wearing tharnes bracers. Int +6 would be rather nice.

[Borror0]

Awanahu's Band:
-6 Intelligence
Cheat Death

In all seriousness, I would expect something like +6 Int and +1 Dex.

[Draccus]

Awanahu's Band:
-6 Intelligence
Cheat Death



Just seeing that in writing made me throw up in my mouth a bit. You are an evil, evil man.

:)

[Kiranselie]

Having seen a couple of the monk rings, and both of them having +6 wisdom, and seeing the acrobat ring w/ +6 dex on it, I'm leaning towards the assassin ring being +6 dex +1 exceptional int. A slap in the face to be sure, considering tharnes bracers, but probably what we're looking at. Altho, If it is, at least now I dont have to change my HP item around :D

[Draccus]

Looks like everyone in this thread is gonna owe me a million gold :)

I'm probably going to drop Tharne's Bracers as well. I may use that slot for a permanent +6 Cha skills item (right now, mine's on goggles..doh!) or +8 armor bracers if I go the AC route. EDITED: Change that. I'll probably wear Lorik's Bracers here (+6 str and healing amplification) and move my +6 Cha skills item to my necklace. This would free up my gloves slot to wear seven-fingered gloves permanently if the Titan would be so kind to give them to me. 25+ runs with over 260 openings of the chest and I have yet to see a pair drop. I also didn't get them on my 20th reward list. Grrr.

I REALLY would have liked +6 str or +6 Int on that ring but it beats +6 Wis :)

[Kiranselie]

Just Pulled Assassin's Ring in new Raid, +6 dex +1 exceptional int. Screenshots in the Raid thread and new loot thread Tomorrow :D

[Draccus]

Just Pulled Assassin's Ring in new Raid, +6 dex +1 exceptional int. Screenshots in the Raid thread and new loot thread Tomorrow :D

Nice pull and thanks for posting it. It's already listed in Cleanup's raid loot thread. Whisper Ring? I assumed it would be Anawahu's Ring, considering it's a set and all. Is this the only set that doesn't have matching names?

*sniff* And that means buh-bye to Tharne's Wrath. I'm replacing Tharne's Bracers with Levik's Bracers.

[Dragon.Star]

Nice pull and thanks for posting it. It's already listed in Cleanup's raid loot thread. Whisper Ring? I assumed it would be Anawahu's Ring, considering it's a set and all. Is this the only set that doesn't have matching names?

*sniff* And that means buh-bye to Tharne's Wrath. I'm replacing Tharne's Bracers with Levik's Bracers.

So far it is the only non-matching one.

[Draccus]

So far it is the only non-matching one.

My guess is that it's a mistake then. I wouldn't be surprised if the two items were made at different times by two different people and that the naming convention was finalized between the two designs.

We'll probably see the ring name changed to Anawahu's Ring before Live.

[Karranor]

Just Pulled Assassin's Ring in new Raid, +6 dex +1 exceptional int. Screenshots in the Raid thread and new loot thread Tomorrow :D

Seriously? Quit punching my junk! :mad:

It's these repetitive loot drops that makes us rogues **** everyone else off as we go for the "fighter gear" to try to get STR/CON etc. Yay I collected all the "rogue" items and now have 5 slots with +6 Dex... I know, I know its not just rogues but I get sick and tired of reading all the threads about other classes rolling on another classes loot. This is why this happens.

So... what is on the Ninja Spy ring? :D

[SableShadow]

Nice pull and thanks for posting it. It's already listed in Cleanup's raid loot thread. Whisper Ring? I assumed it would be Anawahu's Ring, considering it's a set and all. Is this the only set that doesn't have matching names?

*sniff* And that means buh-bye to Tharne's Wrath. I'm replacing Tharne's Bracers with Levik's Bracers.

I'd be interested in seeing if the 20% stacks before I make that call...odds are against, sure, but if they stack there might be a build strategy saving Subtle Backstabber AP.

[Borror0]

I'd be interested in seeing if the 20% stacks before I make that call...odds are against, sure, but if they stack there might be a build strategy saving Subtle Backstabber AP.
It does.

[Hawksen]

+13 to sneak and hide wouldnt totally surprise me one bit considering the capstone.

/signed

[kamimitsu]

It does.

Not that I have much reason to disbelieve you, but how are you sure? From what I understand, the testing on Subtle Backstabbing was notoriously difficult to pin down and was all theory until we got additional info from the DDOcast. After the Chattering Ring/+3 Dodge DT non-stacking issue, I'm not sure I'd be convinced that these stack without a dev comment (though there may well be one), or some pretty rigorous testing (and I'm not sure how one would go about that anyway).

[Borror0]

Not that I have much reason to disbelieve you, but how are you sure? From what I understand, the testing on Subtle Backstabbing was notoriously difficult to pin down and was all theory until we got additional info from the DDOcast. After the Chattering Ring/+3 Dodge DT non-stacking issue, I'm not sure I'd be convinced that these stack without a dev comment (though there may well be one), or some pretty rigorous testing (and I'm not sure how one would go about that anyway).
I am assuming they did not lie in DDOcast. Vague testing and usual stacking rules go that way, too.

I would love to see deeper testing, of course.

[Anthios888]

Putting +6 dex on the ring would be redundant, short sighted, and yet another slap in the face to rogues.

So who wants to bet that the Assassin Ring has +6 Dex? I'll bet a million gold, right here, right now. Any takers?


I can't believe that you're crying that there's too much good loot to be had, Dresek! Get over it and wear some chaosguardes or Armor +10 bracers, old friend. You don't need the Tharne's aggro affect in most situations thanks to your radiance rapier, anyway. And you could still swap the bracers in without losing a stat whenever you were strictly focused on not pulling aggro on a red named.

[kamimitsu]

I am assuming they did not lie in DDOcast. Vague testing and usual stacking rules go that way, too.

I would love to see deeper testing, of course.

I had to be sure I remembered the DDOcast correctly so I went back and listened again. They did say that Items (Treason) and Enhancements (SB) where multiplicative. However, nothing was mentioned about two items. The stacking rules are a bit 'fuzzy' as best as I can tell when duplicate values are presented (i.e. exceptional bonus of the same type do not stack; dodge bonuses stack but only if it's not the chattering DT/Combo; Blur takes highest bonus only and does not stack), so you can see my concern. Is this Melee Threat % coded as a distinct from the Thrane's version (or the Treason version for that matter). Which stack with which (or do they all stack)? As you mentioned, vague testing is probably enough for one to make that decision, but your statement seemed declarative enough that I thought you might have additional information that I had missed. At this point, without a specific comment from DDO on the matter, I'm not sure you can be definitive and say that it does indeed stack. 'It appears to' is about the best that could be said.

edit: I suppose it's not a huge matter, as 20% on top of 20% on top of 40% is pretty darn minimal anyway. But sometimes, I'm just a bit like Chester Rush.

[SableShadow]

As you mentioned, vague testing is probably enough for one to make that decision, but your statement seemed declarative enough that I thought you might have additional information that I had missed. At this point, without a specific comment from DDO on the matter, I'm not sure you can be definitive and say that it does indeed stack. 'It appears to' is about the best that could be said.

The best test I can think of would be the corner point: Tharne's, SB, Whisper set, Treasons. Have someone else beat a mob to 2/3 health and block, then start beating on it until the agro flips. If it's dead before agro flips, all the stuff stacks at least multiplicatively.

[Borror0]

your statement seemed declarative enough that I thought you might have additional information that I had missed
No, just bad memory. I thought that DDOcast said something about using two Treasons.

I suppose it's not a huge matter, as 20% on top of 20% on top of 40% is pretty darn minimal anyway.
It's pretty to over kill.

I mean, with Stubble IV and Tharne's you get only 48% aggro. It's hard to out-DPS by twice as much DPS. Turbine will have to revise their reduction/generation aggro bonuses. Percentage bonuses are ill-advised and shortsighted. In the long run, you'll stack them so easily that combat becomes very mechanical.

[Borror0]

The best test I can think of would be the corner point: Tharne's, SB, Whisper set, Treasons.
Ideally, you would want two identical build DPS-wise and beat on the same mob to see who gains aggro.

That would require characters with Treason and Tharne's but no SA damage...

[SableShadow]

Ideally, you would want two identical build DPS-wise and beat on the same mob to see who gains aggro.

That would require characters with Treason and Tharne's but no SA damage...

Do you have a labrador...? Know where you can get a labrador...?

I *think* I can get a couple rogues, one with Tharne's + the Assassin set, the other with just Tharne's. Both beat on a mob and see who holds agro.

[Borror0]

I *think* I can get a couple rogues, one with Tharne's + the Assassin set, the other with just Tharne's. Both beat on a mob and see who holds agro.
The problem is that Sneak Attack messes that up. It means that your DPS skyrockets once you lose aggro...

I guess two rogues on an already aggro mob would be the best. See who steal aggro first.

[MrCow]

The best test I can think of would be the corner point: Tharne's, SB, Whisper set, Treasons. Have someone else beat a mob to 2/3 health and block, then start beating on it until the agro flips. If it's dead before agro flips, all the stuff stacks at least multiplicatively.

Alternative, use a scrag and count your damage as you go (and your partner does so as well). Being it will never die if you refrain from using acid/fire, you can try to mathematically figure out at what number amount you get/lose aggro. It does require some patience however for the scrag to get back up.

[SneakThief]

The problem is that Sneak Attack messes that up. It means that your DPS skyrockets once you lose aggro...

I guess two rogues on an already aggro mob would be the best. See who steal aggro first.
Or just go beat on things that dont take SA damage ... you know ... half the game :D

[Borror0]

Or just go beat on things that dont take SA damage ... you know ... half the game :D
/jeditrick "Those are not the undeads, elementals and constructs you are looking for."

[SableShadow]

/jeditrick "Those are not the undeads, elementals and constructs you are looking for."

Well, actually, they are. ;)

/smartAss off :D

[Mithran]

If the Dragontouched enhancements I've been granted on my Paladins is any indication (Lionheart five **** times), I think a third and fourth slot for +6 to Dexterity is a good idea.

[SableShadow]

If the Dragontouched enhancements I've been granted on my Paladins is any indication (Lionheart five **** times), I think a third and fourth slot for +6 to Dexterity is a good idea.

I've got 3 now, actually, for different item combinations. Ring, Bracers, and Gloves.