What you need to know about Ranger 17-20

[Xyfiel]

Tested when beta was first released to public, doubtful if it has changed.

1) Capstone
Silver longbow (shots per minute)
Bab 20 57
Hasted 64 (57*1.125)(12.5%)
Capstone 65 (57*1.14)(14%)
Capstone & hasted 71 (57*1.25)(25%)
14% increase unhasted, 12% hasted. Numbers were based of average of (2) one minute trials, and have percentage of error. Also tested a heavy xbow and throwing hammers, with similiar results.

2) Spells
Level 16 3/3/2/2
Level 17 3/3/2/2
Level 18 4/3/2/2
Level 19 4/4/4/3
Level 20 4/4/4/4

Level 19 gains 4 spell slots. Note that there are no new spells, meaning at 20 you have 4 4th level spells and 4 slots. Of course no one uses summon IV or mass longstrider at 20 I would wager, making the gained slots useless. I suggest a few new spells, heck even flame arrow as a level 4 spell would benefit some people.

3) Hiding in plain sight
I was able to completely scout the new explorer unseen. My hide/ms is around 60. Need further testing with the new alert system, which I hate and have no desire to play with it. IMO, if you don't have a decent hide/ms already, it isn't useful.

4) Enhancements
PrE and capstone, nothing else new

[Xionanx]

Tested when beta was first released to public, doubtful if it has changed.

1) Capstone
Silver longbow (shots per minute)
Bab 20 57
Hasted 64 (57*1.125)(12.5%)
Capstone 65 (57*1.14)(14%)
Capstone & hasted 71 (57*1.25)(25%)
14% increase unhasted, 12% hasted. Numbers were based of average of (2) one minute trials, and have percentage of error. Also tested a heavy xbow and throwing hammers, with similiar results.

2) Spells
Level 16 3/3/2/2
Level 17 3/3/2/2
Level 18 4/3/2/2
Level 19 4/4/4/3
Level 20 4/4/4/4

Level 19 gains 4 spell slots. Note that there are no new spells, meaning at 20 you have 4 4th level spells and 4 slots. Of course no one uses summon IV or mass longstrider at 20 I would wager, making the gained slots useless. I suggest a few new spells, heck even flame arrow as a level 4 spell would benefit some people.

3) Hiding in plain sight
I was able to completely scout the new explorer unseen. My hide/ms is around 60. Need further testing with the new alert system, which I hate and have no desire to play with it. IMO, if you don't have a decent hide/ms already, it isn't useful.

4) Enhancements
PrE and capstone, nothing else new

So... basically what your saying is ranger capstone sucks and doesn't give a significant enough improvement to ranged attack speed to be worthwhile...:(

[MDS_Geist]

Does the capstone stack with other forms of ranged alacrity such as from the black dragonscale armor?
Also , how much of a difference does it make with manyshot enabled?

Thanks for doing the work for us.

[exarkun]

Tested when beta was first released to public, doubtful if it has changed.

1) Capstone
Silver longbow (shots per minute)
Bab 20 57
Hasted 64 (57*1.125)(12.5%)
Capstone 65 (57*1.14)(14%)
Capstone & hasted 71 (57*1.25)(25%)
14% increase unhasted, 12% hasted. Numbers were based of average of (2) one minute trials, and have percentage of error. Also tested a heavy xbow and throwing hammers, with similiar results.

2) Spells
Level 16 3/3/2/2
Level 17 3/3/2/2
Level 18 4/3/2/2
Level 19 4/4/4/3
Level 20 4/4/4/4

Level 19 gains 4 spell slots. Note that there are no new spells, meaning at 20 you have 4 4th level spells and 4 slots. Of course no one uses summon IV or mass longstrider at 20 I would wager, making the gained slots useless. I suggest a few new spells, heck even flame arrow as a level 4 spell would benefit some people.

3) Hiding in plain sight
I was able to completely scout the new explorer unseen. My hide/ms is around 60. Need further testing with the new alert system, which I hate and have no desire to play with it. IMO, if you don't have a decent hide/ms already, it isn't useful.

4) Enhancements
PrE and capstone, nothing else new

That is lame that rangers dont get a single new spell, i am happy to finally add tumble to list. Really for ranger lvl 1 spells are the best ones. I can use 4 out of that list. I will only be lvl 18 and its looks like I will get everything i need no more switching out spells.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Tested when beta was first released to public, doubtful if it has changed.

1) Capstone
Silver longbow (shots per minute)
Bab 20 57
Hasted 64 (57*1.125)(12.5%)
Capstone 65 (57*1.14)(14%)
Capstone & hasted 71 (57*1.25)(25%)
14% increase unhasted, 12% hasted. Numbers were based of average of (2) one minute trials, and have percentage of error. Also tested a heavy xbow and throwing hammers, with similiar results.

2) Spells
Level 16 3/3/2/2
Level 17 3/3/2/2
Level 18 4/3/2/2
Level 19 4/4/4/3
Level 20 4/4/4/4

Level 19 gains 4 spell slots. Note that there are no new spells, meaning at 20 you have 4 4th level spells and 4 slots. Of course no one uses summon IV or mass longstrider at 20 I would wager, making the gained slots useless. I suggest a few new spells, heck even flame arrow as a level 4 spell would benefit some people.

3) Hiding in plain sight
I was able to completely scout the new explorer unseen. My hide/ms is around 60. Need further testing with the new alert system, which I hate and have no desire to play with it. IMO, if you don't have a decent hide/ms already, it isn't useful.

4) Enhancements
PrE and capstone, nothing else new

So you're saying that neither the haste spell nor the capstone add 25% speed to ranged weapon speed as as per their descriptions. If this is true its a pretty big deal wand would merit its own thread title at least.

Can anybody else independently verify this? Also I think it would be good practice to measure a longer period than one minute at a time.

[Visty]

So you're saying that neither the haste spell nor the capstone add 25% speed to ranged weapon speed as as per their descriptions. If this is true its a pretty big deal wand would merit its own thread title at least.

Can anybody else independently verify this? Also I think it would be good practice to measure a longer period than one minute at a time.

he doesnt say that

64>57 so haste adds and your post is proven wrong already

[Gol]

he doesnt say that

64>57 so haste adds and your post is proven wrong already
Did you read what he posted? 25% should imply 71, not 64. 64 is less than 71, ergo proving his point.

[Impaqt]

he doesnt say that

64>57 so haste adds and your post is proven wrong already

Last time I checked, and keep in mind I haven't been in a Math class in quite some time, 12.5% and 14% were not a 25%+ increase in attack speed.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

he doesnt say that

64>57 so haste adds and your post is proven wrong already

But 64 != 57*1.25, as the description of the haste spell states (in reality, calculations for alacrity use a much more complicated system (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2153622), but a simple multiplier estimates it relatively accurately). Nor does 65 == 57*1.25, as the description of the capstone states.

EDIT: Bah! Impaqt and Gol beat me to it!

[Visty]

well, seems i got that post wrong then
but iirc eladrin once said it doesnt add 25% anyway cause its not *1.25 but something else but to lazy to look for it now

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

well, seems i got that post wrong then
but iirc eladrin once said it doesnt add 25% anyway cause its not *1.25 but something else but to lazy to look for it now

I've linked to the proper system in my post. However, note that a mere multiplicative modifier provides a relatively accurate estimation of attack speed increase, so we should be seeing much closer to a 25% increase, not the extremely-skewed 14% that the OP states. As a matter of fact, the attack speed increase should actually be higher, especialy when two bonuses are multiplied. In the post's example, FHB I and Haste (25% and 15%) stack to give a 47% increase (a mere additive multiplier system would give 40%).

[szaijan]

I was really set on making my new Ranger pure class through 20, but it just looks like you get effectively nothing for levels 19 and 20. There aren't enough 3rd and 4th level Ranger spells to make the extra slots attractive and the capstone will not come close to impacting tha value of ranged combat outside of Multi-Shot. It's a situational tool without the capstone, and a very marginally better situational tool with the capstone. The initially advertised 25% bonus that stacked with Haste giving it's correct 25% increase would have almost made bow use a viable option more often than 20 sec out of every 2 min., but anything less is nothing but window dressing.

So, 1 level of Fighter and 1 level of Barbarian, for a CG Ranger?

[Barak_Hammerhand]

You get another FE at 20th level as a pure ranger.

[szaijan]

You get another FE at 20th level as a pure ranger.
Good point. Hard to replace that one, and it ups the effectiveness of the other four FEs. Hmmm.

[SneakThief]

well, seems i got that post wrong then
but iirc eladrin once said it doesnt add 25% anyway cause its not *1.25 but something else but to lazy to look for it now
Regardless of what you think Eladrin said about the PrE ... Haste should always be at least 1.25 increase to base attack rate.

[barecm]

Does the capstone stack with other forms of ranged alacrity such as from the black dragonscale armor?
Also , how much of a difference does it make with manyshot enabled?

Thanks for doing the work for us.

I would think so since generally enhancements stack with items. I have been trying to get the quiver from the Abbot for some time now but it is just not in the cards... plus my time spent playing has plummeted as well. Hopefully there will be some other useful, more obtainable quivers to be had in the next mod... but since Turbine hates ranged combat... doubtful.