Should we be worried?

[Hafeal]

The question has been asked if future quests will be designed with the DDO Store in mind. We have not had any kind of answer until now seemingly:


Ten Ton Hammer: Another poster speculated that content difficulty would be adjusted if not in the current content, than in future content. Obviously difficulty is being adjusted downward in current content, but can you give any assurances that you won't adjust the difficulty upward in the future to force players to use store bought consumables?

Fernando Paiz: What we're trying to do is give players options as to what kind of experience they want to get. I think on elite, it's appropriate for something to be really hard - not to drive you to the store necessarily, but to challenge the party. [emphasis added] I think you might see us adding in new difficulty levels or something like that in the future which might be very difficult but there is always a player choice: you want to go for that thing and do you want to try and use store items to attack that thing, or not?

This is a good informative article (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/69960/page/2), unlike some of the others, and even has an apology to players for the delay leading to Mod 9. Acknowledged and appreciated by me at least.

But should we be worried about the store potentially becoming "required" for future content? The answer seems to indicate micro-transactions have only begun their infiltration. :(

[Hafeal]

I would guess after all the crying we heard about the DDO Store and its impact, no one is worried. I am surprised. It looks like Turbine might have the pulse of the player base better than expected.

[kingfisher]

I would guess after all the crying we heard about the DDO Store and its impact, no one is worried. I am surprised. It looks like Turbine might have the pulse of the player base better than expected.

no one cares anymore, and its not like they are releasing it anytime soon anyway.

[Zenako]

Limited ability to make meaningful comments in this forum, aka this thread.

As you have read and posted on other threads in the Beta forums, I should hope you realize that the silence here is not reflective of the noise over there.

[Godzbane]

no one cares anymore, and its not like they are releasing it anytime soon anyway.

QFT.

Maybe they should add the ability to not have the store open in quests. Like norm w/store ~ norm w/o store ~~ elite w/store ~ elite w/o store.

That would make alot of players happy. Last thing i want is to be playing with someone that runs too far in the quest while we are trying to conquest and keeps dying and buying rez shrines to finish the quest in record time. losing the 25% xp bump.

not my idea of fun

[Hafeal]

Limited ability to make meaningful comments in this forum, aka this thread.

As you have read and posted on other threads in the Beta forums, I should hope you realize that the silence here is not reflective of the noise over there.

Good point. I had posted here for more activity but I could see how people might comment with caution on the NDA.

[tman]

Focus on Sales from the store is still to be seen, and maybe Turbine's intent with the comment is revenue generation. But my opinion is there is a big differentiation between player groups. The best players can do the high end elite quests without much difficulty. They have the gear, strategy, and right group of players so that nothing in the game manages to challenge them. An added level of difficulty to the dungeon may challenge that group and keep them interested, while the current difficulty levels challenge the rest of us.

I believe the scaling they are discussing is not based on the store, but on meeting the needs of the skill levels of their gamers.

Turbine's DDO store will actually enable us to scale the difficulty of the quest ourselves. Players now get to decide how much they want the conveinance of the DDO store in their gaming. If you don't like it, DON'T buy from it. Personally, I like having options, instead of ones opposed on me. I also trust that Turbine is going to manage the game balance the the betterment of the game. They have more to lose than I do if they don't manage the game balance.

My 2 cents,
Tman/Tomo

[Kylstrem]

If they create a new difficulty level named, oh I don't know, "Store Level" and it is based on needing something from the store to complete, AND YOU DECIDE TO PLAY IT AND THEN COMPLAIN THAT YOU NEEDED THE STORE, then that is YOUR problem, not Turbine's.

[Hafeal]

If they create a new difficulty level named, oh I don't know, "Store Level" and it is based on needing something from the store to complete, AND YOU DECIDE TO PLAY IT AND THEN COMPLAIN THAT YOU NEEDED THE STORE, then that is YOUR problem, not Turbine's.

What if they don't create a new level but create a quest in which it will be necessary to purchase store items to have a chance at success?

What if they add a new level, perhaps named something like "Deity", and tie favor to it?

[Girevik]

What if they don't create a new level but create a quest in which it will be necessary to purchase store items to have a chance at success?

What if they add a new level, perhaps named something like "Deity", and tie favor to it?

They have already created content that a portion of their player base cannot complete without "support" that the players would rather not use. This is simply an extension of that system.

It's possible that store commodities will make some of that content playable.

[Kylstrem]

A bunch of "what ifs" that I'm not going to get all worried about.

[Hafeal]

A bunch of "what ifs" that I'm not going to get all worried about.

I understand, but when everything was first announced, people were worried about the "what ifs.". Until now, we have had no indication of where Turbine might go with this Store.

Now that the topic is becoming fleshed out, does it change people's feelings?

As I said before, despite the uproar, it appears Turbine has read the vast majority of their player correctly.

[Drfirewater79]

I think as it stands now no one cares

reason one being its not like we are given a launch date yet

reason two being there is a large base of the players that just wont do a mission that requires purchases especially if your a VIP player. what that means is if they did make one and it never got done not even for favor based on the fact that you had to buy something (or only VIP's played it cause they get free points and even then prolly not often and only for favor) Then they would never make a second one.

reason three would be if turbine did make the store more manditory in specific instances and missions then people might cause an uproar and that isnt good for welcoming in new people or welcoming back old people f2p or not.

reason four ... i have played a bunch of mmos and a few F2p's and i have never seen a f2p that had store purchase requirement for items to complete a mission usually its all able to be done by your character alone ... some would have passes you had to buy to play and loot in special areas and if you choose not to play in thouse areas then you wouldnt get the best items and weapons in the game.... but the same can be said for shroud once DDO U gets launched.

that being said i am sure you'll agree there is no reason to worry

people who are not as good will use store lots to keep up with the good players (i for one think UBER or L33t is just as much an insult as n00b and should be banned from forum chatter aswell) people will only buy the areas that they need or the races and classes that they need or dont want to work for.

besides we dont know how common TP are gonna be even if you beta there is no way to know for sure how much you can raise in a month or year.

besides if at the end of year one they see that most vips have over a million unused TP prices will go up and difficulty of elite raids and mission will go up to the point of people using the TP out of shear boredom and lack of will to meet the challenges.

Who knows maybe there will be future adds to exp like bonus exp for using no mana pots and bonus exp for not using a wand or scroll or heal pot.

I think most VIPs will use extra monthly tp and favor tp for creating new characters and buying exp pots so they can level them faster.

and we also havent even hit the point where they offer respecs for a price.

i personally would pay extra if it ment i could respec some of my toons without rerolling and losing all there raid gear.

[Yuhjn]

You should only be worried if you want to run all the new content on elite on a regular basis.

[transtemporal]

Unless they're releasing quests where "normal" is so hard that you can't get through it without chugging 50 major pots, I wouldn't worry too much.

I guess there is the possibility they could put raid gear in the new difficulties that you can't get on another difficulty, or more subtly, reduce the chance of getting the gear on normal to the extent that you have to run it on the new difficulties to get it. That wouldn't be so cool. But until I see it, I'm not worrying.

[Yuhjn]

they could put raid gear in the new difficulties that you can't get on another difficulty, or more subtly, reduce the chance of getting the gear on normal to the extent that you have to run it on the new difficulties to get it. That wouldn't be so cool. But until I see it, I'm not worrying.


This is actually how it works right now on nearly all raids with named items (there are a few exceptions to this rule).

If you run VOD on elite for example, your drop rate on named items will be higher than if you run it on normal.

I know you're saying they could reduce that more, but that would be dumb.

Turbine doesnt want to make it's players suffer, it wants to provide a great experience for everyone. By making a great game, the money will follow. Trying to "force" people to use the store is a silly notion in my opinion.

[transtemporal]

If you run VOD on elite for example, your drop rate on named items will be higher than if you run it on normal.

I know you're saying they could reduce that more, but that would be dumb.

Yeah, thats what I meant: reducing the chance on normal so low that the only practical way to get the gear is to run it on above-elite (whatever that would be called). I agree, its pretty unlikely but you never know - new model, new thinking...

[Yuhjn]

I agree, its pretty unlikely but you never know - new model, new thinking...

Well this would be the old way of thinking for Turbine. That's how they used to make the game. It was mean, and cruel, and the only people who thrived were pretty masochistic and didnt mind all the various things they used to do to us.


heavy red damage with no way to bind so that our best items broke
design quests where people can be removed from the dungeon instance compeltely so that even if the group compeltes they are SOL
massive amounts of "exp debt" for deaths
32 point 1750 favor reward that required everything in the game on elite pretty much and required you to reroll (Turbine is still trying to recover from this bad design decision)
no shrine resets at all
glyph-bound loot system where people played favorites and wedges were driven between people in what were origionally friendly groups
I could go on but you get the idea.


The trend is WAY different now. I really like the decisions Turbine has made so far and I'm very confident they wont "require you to use the store to compelte content and get key items". It just might be faster/easier if you do.

[Pyromaniac]

Honestly, I don't really care that much.

Elite/solo/duo/achievements become meaningless in the future with being able to buy your way to sucess with real money. So that aspect of DDO is gone forever once the game switches over. I won't need to spend in the estore as none of that will feel like a true achievement anymore.

[Kalari]

Im not going to worry because I dont intend on spending real money to complete a quest. If I have the points from being a VIP and its needed maybe. But with my sub that I intend to pay, the amount of character transfers Ive put in this year alone Turbine has gotten my dough for valid reasons. To Win at a quest or at the game to me is not a valid reason. And im not gonna dictate to others who may feel they need to do so I just know its not a option for me.

Im not worried just wanting them to tweek whatever needs tweeking and get the darn mod/new improved ddo out there. The dangling carrot nonsense is getting old.

[transtemporal]

The trend is WAY different now. I really like the decisions Turbine has made so far and I'm very confident they wont "require you to use the store to compelte content and get key items". It just might be faster/easier if you do.

Good points. I guess when you look at the pattern of behavior like that, you can see their train of thought has changed direction somewhat. They've moved away from dog-eat-dog town to inclusive-happy city.

[VirieSquichie]

Honestly, I don't really care that much.

Elite/solo/duo/achievements become meaningless in the future with being able to buy your way to sucess with real money. So that aspect of DDO is gone forever once the game switches over. I won't need to spend in the estore as none of that will feel like a true achievement anymore.

Yeah, I foresee a time when the first thing person #2 replies when person #1 says, "I soloed that on elite!" is, "But did you use the Store?"

Personally, I like the store concept for things like character slots and to expand f2p's content choices, but in-game things like the instant shrines and res cakes a ghost can use...completely out of the realm of D&D role-playing. Or any role-playing. That's right up there with having your own personal deity dropping favors on your character. Meh. Store access like that is completely out of context.

This coming from someone who doesn't "role-play" DDO content.

[Healemup]

You should only be worried if you want to run all the new content on elite on a regular basis.

That would just be crazy! :eek::D

[Drfirewater79]

Turbine doesnt want to make it's players suffer, it wants to provide a great experience for everyone. By making a great game, the money will follow. Trying to "force" people to use the store is a silly notion in my opinion.

ok wasnt gonna say something but i got to ....

turbine doesnt want to make its players suffer? how about 9 months of no new content .. how about no idea as to if 9 months will turn into 12 months ... how about abbot raid .... how about telling us spring monks and half orcs and giving us fall a year later monks only ... need i go on really?

turbine loves to make us suffer ... and i think the store will be a cop out for alot of bad players to make it to cap.


Yeah, I foresee a time when the first thing person #2 replies when person #1 says, "I soloed that on elite!" is, "But did you use the Store?"

...completely out of the realm of D&D role-playing. Or any role-playing. That's right up there with having your own personal deity dropping favors on your character. Meh. Store access like that is completely out of context.

This coming from someone who doesn't "role-play" DDO content.

I agree the days of saying yeah i two maned DQ with just my own equipment are done.

but saying that is the same as the AH .... before AH when people 6 manned dragon at lvl 10 cap it said something ... after the AH and mana pots its been the same thing ... this guy who grinds gold buys 400 mana pots off ah and solos said mission/raid.

only difference is some people wont waste hours loot running to get the pots ... i think what will happen is people will start using fraps more often and record stuff to prove they did it all with out rez cakes.

maybe what they need is a add to the exp table list (you know the place where you can see kill count) for how many deaths each character experiences. then even with solo cakes if you managed to solo something and only die once or twice its still impressive. and making it more impressive if you dont die at all.

its the same thing ... rez pots are different ... but even in pen and paper a DM who didnt want to see the party wipe would have a mysterious rest station or a wandering cleric NPC save the day by rezing everyone.

not that its common that DM's dont like a good party wipe.

i have been in a couple partys in pnp that ended with barbarian getting fully raged and running the F outta the dungeon with the cleric and a fighter leaving the rouge who mucked up the trap behind to deal with the two dragons he woke up by blowing the trap box.