Gimp or Genius?

[harmlesslarry]

Hi I am making a ranger/rogue so far at 5 ranger 2 rogue. I was thinking once i get tempest that id switch it up and take the rest in wizard. People tell me this is asking for trouble, but I thought it would be nice to self haste, blur, displace, GH, what not... what do you think?

[Lymnus]

Well. What race are you?

Just curious. Because Elf would be able to get Dragonmarks for Invisibility, Displacement, and so on.

You have Rogue levels, so I assume that you've probably taken ranks in UMD. You'd be able to GH through scrolls and Girds.

Haste, it probably would be too small. You'd actually probably get more mileage from using an Air-Air-Air shroud clickie.

Would it work? Yeah. Would it be optimal? Nah.

[harmlesslarry]

yes i am elf. i didnt know they had dragonmarks for displacement (guess i wasnt paying attention)

ive been taking skill slots in UMD disable device open lock search.

i started off wanting to be able to melee/disable/res/wand heal but then i thought hey, i wasnt to be displaced and hasted all the time too!

i was told my bab would be too low if i went into wizard, but it seems to me that with haste i could do plenty of damage and hit just fine, maybe im deluding myself. the only thing i worry about is finding a group that will take me lol.

[Leyoni]

IMO the issue you will have is that other players will see the class combo and think "suboptimal build". That will shut you out of a lot of groups.

IMO you are better off continuing on the Ranger path and continuing to take the Tempest enhancements.

You should probably stop putting skill points into OL at some point. OL doesn't have a critical failure so as long as you can eventually hit the DC for it, you'll eventually unlock whatever you need to. Stock up on gear that you only need to put on when opening locks.

The alternative is to stop with Tempest when you hit your next level and then go with Rogue the rest of the way.

There is a third option that does work and that won't hurt your BAB. That is to take Paladin for 6 levels. As an Elf you will have access to enhancements as a Paladin to let you raise dead once per rest. You'll also benefit as a character from the Paladin AC boost and lay-on-hands (although it will be small).

As a final option, you may want to take Ranger to 12 levels and then splash in Monk for 2 levels. Take the final 4 levels in Rogue or Ranger. There are advantages to either.

These are more likely to be seen by other players as somewhat "normal" builds and increase your chance of being accepted into groups.

As for always hasted/blurred/GH and such. Most groups will have these and provide better than you will be able to give yourself. You'll be much more useful in a group as a Ranger 18/Rogue 2 passing out barkskin and then wand whipping stoneskin using UMD.

[Jeannie]

I think your concern about grouping is something to think about. The other issue is parties may expect you to displace everyone, not just yourself, which will burn your mana pretty quickly. I rarely ask for buffs unless a caster offers them, but lots of people do and some will get very cranky if you say no. I had one guildie who refused to carry GH because he said it cost too many SP, once one person got it, everyone asked for it!

These are not insurmountbale obstacles by any means, and you certainly don't play to make other people happy, but unless you're in a good guild or have a relatively stable group to play with, you might have a hard time grouping sometimes.

You may also find yourself struggling at end-game. Sometimes interesting multi-class builds that are fun and effective at low and mid-levels don't have the staying power for higher levels. As Lymnus stated you should be able to UMD GH scrolls. I can't remember if you can get Displacmeent on scrolls or not. You can get Blur on wands and while it's not as good as Displacmeent, it is worhtwhile. Most casters you run with will have Haste anyway, just make sure you don't run away from the party without getting it :)

The last piece of advice I would offer is to remember that you can always build a new character if one doesn't turn out quite how you might like. All you lose is a little time. :)

[Gelandor]

Honestly, I think it is a bad idea to multiclass a character into a class unless you have previously planned on it.

I personally do not think it is a good idea, and as others in this thread have mentioned, you should have the UMD to scroll most of that stuff anyway.

IMO, if you want to do something like this, plan it out in advance, instead of risking ruining your character.

[harmlesslarry]

thanks for the input you have some good advice. i cant go pally because my charisma is too low. i thought wizard because i have a modest amount of intel. but really youre right, with only a handfull of wizard lvls i may as well use scrolls or wands.

[transtemporal]

Honestly, I think it is a bad idea to multiclass a character into a class unless you have previously planned on it.

/agreed. I think you can get away with not planning it if its a very simple melee multiclass like rgr6/barb14. But splash trapmonkey rogues and multiclass casters need a lot of planning, much better gear than an equivalent pure class and much better tactics to be effective. Otherwise they end up being a jack of all trades who can do everything a little bit, but no one thing really well.

[Lithic]

THat build could work well enough to be fun and a decent addition to a party. You lose alot by trying to tack on wizard at this point in time however.

The biggest issue is skill points. High skill point classes should generally be taken as late as possible, except for 1st level which should always be rogue, ranger, bard, barbarian, or everything else (depending on what mix of classes you are going for), in that order of preference. That will maximize the number of skills you can max out at cap.

Another is that wizard battlemages tend to be warforged for self-healing. Even with 2 rogue and 6 ranger, at lvl 20 you could get reconstruction, which is just plain awesome. If you aren't a warforged, you lose out on a big benefit right there. Cleric levels for fleshies fill out the healing, but you lose out on haste/displacement. Depending on how easily you expect to make shroud clickies, cleric levels might be more interesting for your build.

Having said that, it doesnt mean you CAN'T make something decent by going all wizard from now on. If that is your only character, and it took you 2 months to get to lvl 7, then I would caution you about doing anything rash. If you are ok with the idea that it may not turn out to be great, and you may want to start over in 3 weeks, then go for it and see how it goes.

[captain1z]

In my opinion 8 wiz/6ranger/2 rogue is totally gimp as far as a solid party member goes. Granted the player matters more than the build but to go this route for a few spells is a bad idea when with a bit of planning and foresight lets you go 13 ranger/1 rogue/ 2 pali could have a high enuff UMD to:

- scroll GH (which most sorcs do anyway)
- scroll or use wands of blur (level 10 wands do exist)
- many options for haste = scroll, pot, clicky or shroud item
- displacement = scroll

But really trying to be able to do everything is unnecessary in a game built on grouping. Anyway u slice it your party members spells will always be longer in duration and cheaper to use just sp than to burn gold. Reap the benefits of having party members and focus on your role in the party. Just because you can do these things doesnt mean u have to. The loss of BAB and HP's arent worth it to me.

Its like having a full party with a 15 wiz/1 rogue and a 15 rogue/1 wiz and trying to decide whos gunna get the traps and whos gunna displace and haste the party............... both characters are capable of doing both but come on...... seriously.

13 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 2 pali - gets full barkskin & everything thats worth being a ranger, plus access to skills another ranger wont have and a boost in saves and charisma (1 pt) works well with Drow or human. Obviously a ranger but capable of so much more.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'll never tell. :rolleyes:

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ok....I lied...I will tell.

The ability to caste your own Haste, and displacement is awesome.
Ten min Blurs....expeditious retreats Shield. False life.
1 Min Haste and Displacement.

That's what I get with Wiz 5.
Plus Flame arrow wands and stone skin wands.....teleport scrolls....and DD scrolls when you can find them.

Wiz 8 sounds fun too.
GH Scrolls with a decent chance of success I think
Fireshield....and Wall of Fire.

Mine was my first DDO char and was an evolution that I would have done differently if I had planned him better in todays DDO game.

You should take Rog at lvl 1.
I ended up with Rog4 to try to keep my skills up. But some Rog 2's do just fine.

Bad things about the build.
Low BaB. Low HP. These get me occasionally.
Divine Power clickies help at times.

Low caster lvl means all those great buffs get dispelled easily by enemy casters.
Unless your Int is max, you can prob forget about spells with saving throws.

Hard to keep Rog skills up.

Then there's that whole perception about you being gimped.

Edit: feel free to PM me any specific questions. I can try to tell you more pros and cons if you want.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

More:
Everything everyone said here is correct.

But.....my experiance as a PUGer tells me you will not be buffed by others as often as you would like... Esp Displacement.

And they all seem to miss the fact that this is a fun build.

They are very very correct about the build stigma however.

I've been turned down from many LFMs over the years.
And for most of my career I was accepted for my Rog skills.

Gear and player matter more than build anyday IMO.
And mine is well equiped and enough people know me as a player that I've left a lot of the stigma behind....but then Thelanis is kinda a progressive server.

Getting into raids is the hardest...at least when the raid is new and people think they need a certain party to complete.

They always want to be able to classify your char..
Is he a tank? A Rog? A Buffbot? What is he?

In a perfect world, clerics heal you all the time, tanks swing weapons, and mages keep you buffed and throw out the big damage spells when needed. (some even use CC and some groups even appreciate it)

But in my PUG world that perfect group synergy seldom happens.

And people also miss the fact that you have 10 char slots per server and 5 servers.
Lots of room to experiment with a build IMO.