First time builder looking to make a bard! Help Please!

[Yile]

Hello all! I'm fairly new to DDO and would love some help building a bard. I really do not have access to tomes (besides a +1 intel that I snagged) and no access to high end equipment. I only have Drow unlocked and would like to use the new character to reach my 1750 favor and hopefully beyond.

My hopes are to create a character that can buff, CC, and heal in a pinch. I'm not looking to play a primary healer, just the ability to pick up the slack. I'd love to be able to work in some decent melee capability IF possible. I hate to think that all I'll ever be able to do is stand in the back and never get to wack a Troll! However, if high end CC requires the loss of melee contribution that's understandable.

After browsing these forums for weeks on various topics I thought I'd try my hand at a build. Thank you all by the way for the extensive info posted on the forums. Basically I have come up with two builds and do not know which would be better or if either are really viable. The first build is Virtuoso, the second a Spellsinger. Will either of these work? I have read the the Virtuoso specialty isn't that great, is this true?

Any feedback on the following builds would be great! Ok here's the Virtuoso:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Zermi Virtuoso
Level 16 Neutral Good Drow Female
(16 Bard)
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 600
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 10
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 16
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 18 24


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 4 19
Bluff 4 7
Concentration 5 20
Diplomacy 8 28
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 8 26
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 4 7
Jump 7 22
Listen -1 3
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 8 30
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot -1 1
Swim 3 3
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 26

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Perform II


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
Enhancement: Virtuoso I


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration II


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III




Now the Spellsinger:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Zermi
Level 16 Neutral Good Drow Female
(16 Bard)
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 765
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 10
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 11 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 20 26

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 3 18
Bluff 5 8
Concentration 5 24
Diplomacy 9 27
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 7 25
Heal -1 -1
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 5 8
Jump 4 19
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 9 27
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot -1 1
Swim 1 1
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 9 29

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration I


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration II


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I




Thanks in advance for any advice all!

P.S. Will giving up the extra songs and strength by using the Spellsinger build ruin any chance or melee or will the both stink at melee period?


Yile

[Thame]

Builds look good for what your after except for HP.

You mentioned you want to be able to whack a troll every now and then. Your hp are rather low for end game melee. I would recommend HP boosts(con, gfl, etc) if you wish to melee. Otherwise maybe go a range build.

Ill edit this to say, many people will come on here to tell you to build it this way or that way simply because its whats best for them or the flavor of the month build, and if you dont they will call you/it gimp.

Its your build, your character, take advice as you wish but as long as you enjoy the toon then build it however you want and enjoy the game

[Lifespawn]

maybe try a repeater build? current endgame content alot of stuff is immune to enchantment spells.

[Yile]

maybe try a repeater build? current endgame content alot of stuff is immune to enchantment spells.

Ahh that's a let down! What type of dex and strength is needed to make a repeater build viable? I imagine I could swap out some spell focus feats for repeater stuff since the DCs won't matter on immune mobs?! Is this correct? Or should i just pick up empower or maximize and try fill the role of a healer for endgame? I really hope the next mod doesn't limit Bard CC!

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

Yile

[Angelus_dead]

The first build is Virtuoso, the second a Spellsinger. Will either of these work? I have read the the Virtuoso specialty isn't that great, is this true?
Yes. To become a virtuoso is almost always a mistake. The warchanter and spellsinger options both have much better effects than virtuoso does.

The essential problem is that while both warchanter and spellsinger teach you a new buff, virtuoso only supplies new debuffs. Buffs are inherently more useful, because you can apply them to your whole team, instead of a debuff that can only reach a fraction of all the monsters in the quest.


P.S. Will giving up the extra songs and strength by using the Spellsinger build ruin any chance or melee or will the both stink at melee period?
No bard should think he has to give up on melee. The Diplomacy skill is basically your "license to rumble". 16 or even 13 strength is enough, especially once you add in the elfy rapier enhancements.

I don't suggest you start with 20 cha for a "spellsinger" build. 18 is totally enough.

[Kaldaka]

My comment on the build:

Don't worry about the Extra Song enhancement ... by the time you are level 16 and have 16 songs (or 20 if MOD 9 ever comes out ..), you will have way more songs than you could ever sing before getting to the next shrine. However, it might be good to take that enhancement early in your bardic career, but IMO they should be swapped out about level 8 or so.

As far as a build goes, I think a spellsinger with this layout might work out better for you:

Drow Bard starting stats:

STR 15 - 8
DEX 16 - 6
CON 12 - 4
INT 10 - 0
WIS 8 - 0
CHA 18 - 10

Need +1 DEX Tome, +1 STR Tome

I'd go two weapon fighting with rapiers and shortswords, feats I recommend would be TWF, ITWF, extend spell and improved crit pierce the others are up to you. Skills to max: Perform, UMD, Diplomacy, Haggle, Concentration and Jump, the rest can be lived without (even jump and haggle are just icing ;), a point or two into Tumble is always fun)...

This is a fun build because you can melee at high end (maybe not against Purple Named ...) because of UMD stoneskin wands and self casted displacement. Then diplo, back away and UMD yourself a heal scroll or two if you are getting in trouble (how the barbarians will be jealous LOL)

And yes, a lot of end game stuff can still be enchanted ... A Disco Ball in the shroud is always welcome (baring the lag rumor ...), you just need a good spell penetration (there are two feats and a enhancement line that could be taken for this one as well) ... and lets not forget the capstone which will really help out this build: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2027039&postcount=1


Well that's my two cents.
Enjoy your bard :D

[maddmatt70]

My comment on the build:

Don't worry about the Extra Song enhancement ... by the time you are level 16 and have 16 songs (or 20 if MOD 9 ever comes out ..), you will have way more songs than you could ever sing before getting to the next shrine. However, it might be good to take that enhancement early in your bardic career, but IMO they should be swapped out about level 8 or so.

As far as a build goes, I think a spellsinger with this layout might work out better for you:

Drow Bard starting stats:

STR 15 - 8
DEX 16 - 6
CON 12 - 4
INT 10 - 0
WIS 8 - 0
CHA 18 - 10

Need +1 DEX Tome, +1 STR Tome

I'd go two weapon fighting with rapiers and shortswords, feats I recommend would be TWF, ITWF, extend spell and improved crit pierce the others are up to you. Skills to max: Perform, UMD, Diplomacy, Haggle, Concentration and Jump, the rest can be lived without (even jump and haggle are just icing ;), a point or two into Tumble is always fun)...

This is a fun build because you can melee at high end (maybe not against Purple Named ...) because of UMD stoneskin wands and self casted displacement. Then diplo, back away and UMD yourself a heal scroll or two if you are getting in trouble (how the barbarians will be jealous LOL)

And yes, a lot of end game stuff can still be enchanted ... A Disco Ball in the shroud is always welcome (baring the lag rumor ...), you just need a good spell penetration (there are two feats and a enhancement line that could be taken for this one as well) ... and lets not forget the capstone which will really help out this build: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2027039&postcount=1


Well that's my two cents.
Enjoy your bard :D

The build you post is a 30 pt build. Con is a 6 for drow and you put 6 points into it..

[maddmatt70]

Your spellsinger build is actually not too bad and on the right track. What you need to add to that build is a couple of feats to augment your healing ability. I would recommend droping the two spell focus enchantment feats and picking up empower healing and quicken. Bard healing in the current ddo is very effective. I do not know if that is what you want to play, but a heads up for you. Very viable build.

You can also make a much more melee oriented bard. Be a warchanter.
For a drow go with:
15 str (eat a +1 str tome)
15 con (eat a +1 con tome)
16 dex (eat a +1 dex tome)
11 cha
10 int
8 wis
Feats: weapon focus pierce, power attack, two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting, improved crit pierce
Use Rapiers and make sure to get a minos helm for the toughness feat for this mod (will be changed in mod 9).

[maddmatt70]

No bard should think he has to give up on melee. The Diplomacy skill is basically your "license to rumble". 16 or even 13 strength is enough, especially once you add in the elfy rapier enhancements.


I never ever use the diplomacy skill on my bards it is a total waste of non agressive play. I do not mind if bad guys attack my bards by the way after all I will always have displacement and almost always stoneskin. I will use diplomacy some on my rogues but that is solely for dps. I do agree there is no reason not to pull out a rapier when you are bored or to contribute here or there, but the best bards play to the strength of their build. If the build is a healing/cc build then make sure to buff the party and play to your strength.



I don't suggest you start with 20 cha for a "spellsinger" build. 18 is totally enough.

Nope. He will need every dc he can get his/her hands on believe me especially with early projections for how high the monster saves will be next mod. In addition it is the one advantage a drow has. The OP might as well make a 28 pt human with your recommendation.

[Noctus]

Yes. To become a virtuoso is almost always a mistake. The warchanter and spellsinger options both have much better effects than virtuoso does.

The essential problem is that while both warchanter and spellsinger teach you a new buff, virtuoso only supplies new debuffs. Buffs are inherently more useful, because you can apply them to your whole team, instead of a debuff that can only reach a fraction of all the monsters in the quest.


True.


@Yale
The Spellsinger build looks good.

[Varr]

Poor virts never getting any love. They are very synergettic for builds that do what bards do best, haggle. Want do do your stable of toons a favor build a 18/2 virt bard/rogue max cha 14 int haggle. Get some dex and a para short bow and augment your spell and song cc. Mail any loot 32k in value or more to this toon to sell at the house d and k vendors. Get a suit of black dragon leather and you will be welcome in any party and really improve your pack of developing characters. Fun to play also since you get to facinate undead and constructs faster than other bards when it is still usefull (before everyone has disrupt/smit.)

[Ganak]

Both of my bards I started with 8 intel and have all the skill points I need. I would suggest moving the stat points from int to con. Never have enough hp.

Also, I have force of personality on my battle bard who often gets agro and love this feat. On my other bard who is more cc/heal/enchantment spec'd I do not have FoP and don't need it because will save is still very good and don't get agro as much. I recomment toughness for all builds, as with the racial toughness enhancement it adds up and you can never go wrong with more hp.

I've become a fan of the empowered healing feat for what it's worth.

[Kaldaka]

The build you post is a 30 pt build. Con is a 6 for drow and you put 6 points into it..


Good catch ... meant that to be 10

[Yile]

Thanks for all the advice all! I think I'll go with the spell singer and drop greater spell focus at level 3 in exchange for empowered healing. I also plan on exchanging some of the extra song enhancements for some wand or healing focused ones at higher levels. Would anyone be able to enlighten me on the advantages of quicken? Do I really need it with a higher concentration skill or could I get away with out it?

Yile