To Shroud Casters

[Samadhi]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

[smatt]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.


Or haven't run it 1,321 times :D

[Charlemagne2]

Doesnt this fall under telling people how to play their role? I mean if they cc/web it and keep trogs clear what exactely is the problem? Please not dont pull the lag card.
Now casters with zero mana 6-7 portals in, thats a problem.
That is all...........;}

[Return_To_Forever]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

I'm glad you said something, I mean just think of the waisted time and mana! Frickin clueless casters, prt 1 is hard enough without thier lollygagging!

[sephiroth1084]

This statement is very narrow-minded of you. When I'm in the Shroud on my wizard and clearing, I throw a web down, FoD the toughest of the 3 trogs, then bust out my Dreamspitter and melee the remaining 2 (who have lower AC and HP) while they are still stuck in the web. Saves a lot of SP, and is more fun.

[Samadhi]

Doesnt this fall under telling people how to play their role? I mean if they cc/web it and keep trogs clear what exactely is the problem? Please not dont pull the lag card.
Now casters with zero mana 6-7 portals in, thats a problem.
That is all...........;}

No, no lag card. I would be fine with that strategy if I had ever seen it work. Usually, when folks are doing that, I see piles of devils spawning. And, as you stated, they don't quite have the "staying power".... mana-wise of course.

[Unknownperson]

I think what the OP was getting at is kill the trogs in some way. I beleive the spawing of the portal keepers has to do with how many trogs are up at any given time. So if you just crowd control them, the portal keepers will spawn faster. Keep the trogs at a low number and you will never see a portal keeper.

Now of course I could be wrong, but anytime I see a caster using the stone trog's and let the melee kill them method, we see a ton more portal keepers.

[Samadhi]

This statement is very narrow-minded of you. When I'm in the Shroud on my wizard and clearing, I throw a web down, FoD the toughest of the 3 trogs, then bust out my Dreamspitter and melee the remaining 2 (who have lower AC and HP) while they are still stuck in the web. Saves a lot of SP, and is more fun.

I have a guildy that likes to vorpal them too - that doesn't mean that way is quicker. After running a quest over 300 times, though, efficiency is the name of the game. While you are beating on trogs with a dreamspitter, that portal is losing DPS that you could be doing to it. Pick up some GCB's and stop slacking please.

[Gratch]

Dear Melee PUG's, esp weekend warriors possibly bashing on portals with their wand of expeditious retreat equipped and/or lagging out of the instance,

Quit taking so long to bash the portals so that the mana for an extended, heightened web and an extended CK is less than multiple rounds of fingering trogs. Also quit taking so long that I have to cover multiple portals this way.

In guild groups, I finger... in some PUG's...after you get a looksee at the portal beatdown time... decide which way to go.

[Reisz]

The same can be said for Flesh to Stone or charming them. The point is that if the Trogs don't die, more devils and portal keepers spawn because if it.

[rezo]

I have a guildy that likes to vorpal them too - that doesn't mean that way is quicker. After running a quest over 300 times, though, efficiency is the name of the game. While you are beating on trogs with a dreamspitter, that portal is losing DPS that you could be doing to it. Pick up some GCB's and stop slacking please.

What's wrong??? Can't your 9 DPS tanks hit a defenseless portal to do enough damage to it??? Or are they rolling all 1's??? :D :D :D

[Jondallar]

Any caster not casting grease, Sleet storm, and especially globe of invulnerability on the portals can GTFO of my groups. Seriously if part 1 is an issue after all this time just wait until Eberron: EZ Button comes out for shroud ingredients/ completions, your rep will remain much better in the long run

[KoboldKiller]

I find it amusing that people still think they are so much better than others they should tell us how to play.



:rolleyes:

[Return_To_Forever]

I find it amusing that people still think they are so much better than others they should tell us how to play.



:rolleyes:

He's not saying that, he is saying he is tired of failing part 1. His groups are having a hard time in part 1, so he is just giving friendly advice.

[Emili]

He's not saying that, he is saying he is tired of failing part 1. His groups are having a hard time in part 1, so he is just giving friendly advice.

?, you've typically an arcane caster and two clerics in there ... they can easily clean up the trash.

[Jondallar]

I find it amusing that people still think they are so much better than others they should tell us how to play.



:rolleyes:


He's not saying that, he is saying he is tired of failing part 1. His groups are having a hard time in part 1, so he is just giving friendly advice.

I, however, am saying I am better, and Im pretty sure Psych was hinting at it.
The way to get better is by listening to better players advice. The way to stay mediocre is by repeating the same thing you do over and over and not striving for anything better. Its not a bad thing that there is disparity between player skill levels. Noone ever tells anyone how to play their character if things are going smoothly, its only when things are: going wrong, taking to long, or not that fun.

[Gratch]

Any caster not casting grease, Sleet storm, and especially globe of invulnerability on the portals can GTFO of my groups.

Also... charming the portal keepers and hiding them in various crannies helps A LOT. After charming make sure to buff them so they don't slip on the grease or take damage from their trog/devil/orthon friends.

[Jondallar]

Also... charming the portal keepers and hiding them in various crannies helps A LOT. After charming make sure to buff them so they don't slip on the grease or take damage from their trog/devil/orthon friends.

/invited

[Nevthial]

But I like to Vorpal 'em while they're webbed up !!!!

On a serious note: I have seen more failures from low DPS melee types with no portal beaters to speak of.
Part 1 is a joke with a competent group and shouldn't take long enough for serious spawns to even occur.

Disclaimer: I don't PUG the Shroud, ( At least I haven't had to yet ) so my viewpoint may be jaded.

[Samadhi]

He's not saying that, he is saying he is tired of failing part 1. His groups are having a hard time in part 1, so he is just giving friendly advice.

Definitely have not seen a fail in part 1 since the last time the bugged portal keeper spawned in the cubby after we were past the cubby. This was not even in reference to a specific incident - more just bland "WHY??" because I ask them, in game "Why did you just put a solid fog on the portal?" and no one ever will tell me.

[Loden]

Noone ever tells anyone how to play their character if things are going smoothly, its only when things are: going wrong, taking to long, or not that fun.

Wrong !!!

The Problem is everyone thinks they know how to play and its their way or the highway. I have run way too many quests were everything is going smooth and I Jump ahead (because its kinda fun and makes it interesting) and the **** hits the fan and I get yelled at EVEN THOUGH the grp was fine and nothing bad was going to happen. Ppl love to be in control. If he was having trouble in part 1, he should make sure he runs with a better grp of noobs..
That is all. Please stop telling ppl what to do. Just leave grp, blacklist and move on.

[FluffyCalico]

Wrong !!!

The Problem is everyone thinks they know how to play and its their way or the highway. I have run way too many quests were everything is going smooth and I Jump ahead (because its kinda fun and makes it interesting) and the **** hits the fan and I get yelled at EVEN THOUGH the grp was fine and nothing bad was going to happen. Ppl love to be in control. If he was having trouble in part 1, he should make sure he runs with a better grp of noobs..
That is all. Please stop telling ppl what to do. Just leave grp, blacklist and move on.

While you have a point don't forget a raid is a group effort. If you aren't prepared to do what the group wants/needs then don't join it

PS> When I needed another small shard 1 time I got 5-6 others and we 6 manned part 1 to ransack with 0 resources and 0 wipes. This was invite whoever clicks on the damm thing type of pug. When something gets 2-3 manned fairly often, you really have to stuck to wipe with 12. Either that or refuse to do what needs to be done.

[doppleganger]

Definitely have not seen a fail in part 1 since the last time the bugged portal keeper spawned in the cubby after we were past the cubby. This was not even in reference to a specific incident - more just bland "WHY??" because I ask them, in game "Why did you just put a solid fog on the portal?" and no one ever will tell me.

If no one ever tells you, maybe the problem lies on your side, such as in the way you are asking the question/complaining, etc.

[Delt]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

CK is one of the more SP-economical methods of dealing with the spawns, and totally needed if you are a single caster in a slow and underequipped party (or a hybrid caster with a smaller sp pool [ie: wiz-rog]).

Your advice highlights who's clueless - enjoy your one-trick method and inability to adapt.

[Sirea]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

Eww...stinky finger :(

And for the record, I find I run out of mana sooner casting individual FoDs on each and every thing in there, than I do with strategically places CK/Web combo that can trap 3 or 4 of them and hold them long enough to die from CON damage. And FoD the ones that save.

[Junts]

I think what the OP was getting at is kill the trogs in some way. I beleive the spawing of the portal keepers has to do with how many trogs are up at any given time. So if you just crowd control them, the portal keepers will spawn faster. Keep the trogs at a low number and you will never see a portal keeper.

Now of course I could be wrong, but anytime I see a caster using the stone trog's and let the melee kill them method, we see a ton more portal keepers.

portals work like this:

at appearance, and every 1 minute, they spawn mobs

if no mobs from that portal are up (eg, the first time, or any spawn time when everything that portal dropped is dead), it will spawn 3 trogs

if -any- of the 3 trogs are alive, it will spawn a devilkin (bezekira, bearded or orthon depending on portal)

if the devilkin is alive, it will spawn a portal keeper

if the keeper is alive at the next spawn time, the quest fails.

Keeping the trogs clear both prevents keepers and prevents you from ever seeing an orthon or devil; the reason random trash sometimes appears in the little nook on the left side is that frequently one of those trogs spawns in the wall, and the quest never returns there, so when the orthon appears, it just stands still without aggroing anything, and then a minute later it will spawn the keeper (because the trash continues to appear even after its portal is dead).

[Samadhi]

Eww...stinky finger :(

And for the record, I find I run out of mana sooner casting individual FoDs on each and every thing in there, than I do with strategically places CK/Web combo that can trap 3 or 4 of them and hold them long enough to die from CON damage. And FoD the ones that save.

I'm more than willing to see it done right, don't get me wrong. I just never have, nor have I ever seen the need to try it that way myself. Using FOD alone, my wizard usually makes it to about 3-4 portals from the end before running out of mana (that's in an average PUG - above average I will make it to the end). For my sorcs it's a nonissue.

[Return_To_Forever]

portals work like this:

at appearance, and every 1 minute, they spawn mobs

if no mobs from that portal are up (eg, the first time, or any spawn time when everything that portal dropped is dead), it will spawn 3 trogs

if -any- of the 3 trogs are alive, it will spawn a devilkin (bezekira, bearded or orthon depending on portal)

if the devilkin is alive, it will spawn a portal keeper

if the keeper is alive at the next spawn time, the quest fails.

Keeping the trogs clear both prevents keepers and prevents you from ever seeing an orthon or devil; the reason random trash sometimes appears in the little nook on the left side is that frequently one of those trogs spawns in the wall, and the quest never returns there, so when the orthon appears, it just stands still without aggroing anything, and then a minute later it will spawn the keeper (because the trash continues to appear even after its portal is dead).

You clearly have no idea what your talking about, plz go solo titan or something!

All I read was the portals work like blah blah blah blah eskimo backflip guitar string, look, finger something? got it? fae eengaer sawmathaynga!sheesh louise!

[Samadhi]

If no one ever tells you, maybe the problem lies on your side, such as in the way you are asking the question/complaining, etc.

Fair enough :D I have been known to utilize sarcasm to prove a point. ("Thanks for fogging up that portal I thought it was gonna hit me!") But I have been polite about it too. And so far in this thread, I have 1 person (Sirea) who has provided any logical response to the other side. Mostly, just a lot of "don't tell me how to play!!" Sorry, if I'm doing something ********, I would rather be called out on it than continue to bump my head against the wall. Don't even get me started on people asking for true seeing for part 4 :/

[Venar]

The way i do it on my sorc (who also tends to haste and rage the party) is FoD in advance the portals.
Once we get to the last 6, meaning multiples and more trogs, i tend to put 1 agro spell on each portal (ck or AF) and the lure them all in a firewall in the middle.

With the 2 group method, its all pointless.

[Junts]

You clearly have no idea what your talking about, plz go solo titan or something!

All I read was the portals work like blah blah blah blah eskimo backflip guitar string, look, finger something? got it? fae eengaer sawmathaynga!sheesh louise!



roflrofl

translating fae eengaer sawmathaynga is going to be my project for the day.

[Junts]

I'm more than willing to see it done right, don't get me wrong. I just never have, nor have I ever seen the need to try it that way myself. Using FOD alone, my wizard usually makes it to about 3-4 portals from the end before running out of mana (that's in an average PUG - above average I will make it to the end). For my sorcs it's a nonissue.


I know some casters who do this well, and further its pretty much required if you're gonna do this as a wizard as they just don't have the sp to finger everything - clearing all portals on my sorceror costs a ton of sp .. 35 mobs x 45 sp = 1600ish sp.

[Thorzian]

I think what the OP was getting at is kill the trogs in some way. I beleive the spawing of the portal keepers has to do with how many trogs are up at any given time. So if you just crowd control them, the portal keepers will spawn faster. Keep the trogs at a low number and you will never see a portal keeper.

Now of course I could be wrong, but anytime I see a caster using the stone trog's and let the melee kill them method, we see a ton more portal keepers.

if a trog, any trog, is alive for 1 minute it spawnes an infernal (devil, cat, or orthon depending on portal) If that infernal is alive for 1 minute then a portal keeper is spawned. if the keeper is alive for 1 minute you FAIL. (though I've never actually seen a keeper survive more than a few seconds)

[KoboldKiller]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.


My argument is this is not a constructive way to inform someone who may not know the best way to do it. This clearly is a personal attack on those who don't do it "my" way. I have no issue with veteran players helping newbs but this is not the proper way to do it. Something along the lines of "For those who are new to the shroud, if you are using your caster a efficient way to clear the portal mobs is FoD or PK. No fogs or balls are needed as those MOBs need to be killed quickly in order to prevent possible failure." See the difference?

[smatt]

Hmm, I'm betting there's goign to be some cranky people when all those FtP players get up to around Shroud level or so...... :D That is if the Shroud is even important anymore... You'll probably be able to just bu...... Opps.......:eek:

[Samadhi]

My argument is this is not a constructive way to inform someone who may not know the best way to do it. This clearly is a personal attack on those who don't do it "my" way. I have no issue with veteran players helping newbs but this is not the proper way to do it. Something along the lines of "For those who are new to the shroud, if you are using your caster a efficient way to clear the portal mobs is FoD or PK. No fogs or balls are needed as those MOBs need to be killed quickly in order to prevent possible failure." See the difference?

Arguing that my presentation was not PC enough is irrelevant to the point of view being asserted.

For "This is clearly a personal attack..." here is the actual circumstances that made me think of it. I joined a PUG shroud, on my sorc. The party leader asked me to do kill team, and specifically said "Can you just finger or pk them instead of other stuff?" My thought was "of course" but then I realized where she was coming from. She pugs a lot more than me, and the couple casters I have seen doing "alt" strategies was obviously not only something she had seen all too often, but had seen it be just as ineffective as I had. There is no malice intended. Get over it.

[KoboldKiller]

Arguing that my presentation was not PC enough is irrelevant to the point of view being asserted.

For "This is clearly a personal attack..." here is the actual circumstances that made me think of it. I joined a PUG shroud, on my sorc. The party leader asked me to do kill team, and specifically said "Can you just finger or pk them instead of other stuff?" My thought was "of course" but then I realized where she was coming from. She pugs a lot more than me, and the couple casters I have seen doing "alt" strategies was obviously not only something she had seen all too often, but had seen it be just as ineffective as I had. There is no malice intended. Get over it.


Actually there's nothing to get over but apparently you feel so superior that it was necessary for you to take it upon yourself to tell casters how to run part one of the shroud so maybe you should get over yourself. As for being "pc" enough that is just a matter of handling the situation with maturity and tact which you clearly lack on both accounts.

[Caine52184]

I find it amusing that people still think they are so much better than others they should tell us how to play.



:rolleyes:


Agreed. Part 1 is easy enough? yes?

Reminds me of a person crying for bard songs!

[Phidius]

Fair enough :D I have been known to utilize sarcasm to prove a point. ("Thanks for fogging up that portal I thought it was gonna hit me!") But I have been polite about it too. And so far in this thread, I have 1 person (Sirea) who has provided any logical response to the other side. Mostly, just a lot of "don't tell me how to play!!" Sorry, if I'm doing something ********, I would rather be called out on it than continue to bump my head against the wall. Don't even get me started on people asking for true seeing for part 4 :/

I've been known to throw an occasional web, but it's only to keep the trogs in one spot (they like chasing other people) long enough to melee them down. I also tend to FoD one or two in a large group to keep things moving.

Depending on the group, this method allows me to finish part 1 with around 25% of my wizzies sp bar left.

However, I'd like to point out that if conserving sp is important to your caster, you really don't want to deal with a lot of devils/orthons/cats, so kill those trogs fast...

[Bilger]

I know some casters who do this well, and further its pretty much required if you're gonna do this as a wizard as they just don't have the sp to finger everything - clearing all portals on my sorceror costs a ton of sp .. 35 mobs x 45 sp = 1600ish sp.

Ok couldn't help but contradict ya hear. It is not required for a wizard to do this I know plenty who solo portals and don't run out of mana my wizard included. Geuss it is just the people I run with.

[MrCow]

I know that many arcanes have respectable Spell Penetration and SP pools, but on my 14 Wizard/2 Ranger he has a Spell Penetration of 17 on Finger of Death and 1170 SP. Using Fog Cloud gets me initial aggro causing the trogs to come to me where I can slay them in a single clustered area (usually by standing in a cloudkill and wielding a wounding dagger). The cost of 25 SP for extended Fog Cloud and 40 SP for extended Cloudkill every minute or two allows me to keep a workable pace of slaughtered trogs.


if the keeper is alive for 2 minute you FAIL.

Sorry, but I have to correct this. You are allowed 2 minutes to take the portal keeper down before you fail. After 0:20 you get a DM message about a Portal Keeper arriving. After 1:20 you get a DM message saying that soon Shavarath will be co-terminus. After 2:00 you fail. After 3:00 you get booted out of the quest.

[tyranthraxus]

Ciao!

Tyranthraxus has decided he once again needs to step in with his almighty wisdom and overall awesomeness.I for one don't see the problem - when i solo the shroud blindfolded in my sleep - the trogs immediately sense my life essence and flee maniacally flailing their arms about in confused dementia. I then merely use my wish ring that was given to me by the CEO of Turbine to transport me to the loot.

In short Samadhi is right.

[Ota]

Ciao!

Tyranthraxus has decided he once again needs to step in with his almighty wisdom and overall awesomeness.I for one don't see the problem - when i solo the shroud blindfolded in my sleep - the trogs immediately sense my life essence and flee maniacally flailing their arms about in confused dementia. I then merely use my wish ring that was given to me by the CEO of Turbine to transport me to the loot.

In short Samadhi is right.

Don't believe this man. He builds his bridges to glory over the backs of my people, and his tyranny will not be forgotten.

[Thorzian]

thanks cow man! like i said, i've never seen a keeper live more than a few seconds so i wasnt too sure on that part

[Samadhi]

I know that many arcanes have respectable Spell Penetration and SP pools, but on my 14 Wizard/2 Ranger he has a Spell Penetration of 17 on Finger of Death and 1170 SP. Using Fog Cloud gets me initial aggro causing the trogs to come to me where I can slay them in a single clustered area (usually by standing in a cloudkill and wielding a wounding dagger). The cost of 25 SP for extended Fog Cloud and 40 SP for extended Cloudkill every minute or two allows me to keep a workable pace of slaughtered trogs.
.

Couple questions (not specifically for you but in general), and thanks for the logical response and example.

Would you bother with that method if it wasn't necessary? Or if you were playing a more typical build would you just kill them quicker and get back to portal beating?

Do you see many casters using this strategy hitting them with a wounder to finish the job? Or are they running around being chased by mobs?

[macros123]

If the OP can't handle a couple of trogs that the caster may be slow clearing, it is HIM who is gimp.

It's not like you are gonna die in part 1 buddy.

[Junts]

Couple questions (not specifically for you but in general), and thanks for the logical response and example.

Would you bother with that method if it wasn't necessary? Or if you were playing a more typical build would you just kill them quicker and get back to portal beating?

Do you see many casters using this strategy hitting them with a wounder to finish the job? Or are they running around being chased by mobs?

I know quite a few people (including friends of ours) who think the caster should never range ahead, finger the 3 trogs that pop from the portal and spend their time beating the portal instead of killing trogs to speed up the raid.

While I prefer to not have to deal with orthons, etc, its certainly a viable approach, web/ck/ignore certaily increases the time a caster spends portal beating.

[MrCow]

Would you bother with that method if it wasn't necessary? Or if you were playing a more typical build would you just kill them quicker and get back to portal beating?

The character in question would resume the same method to a degree because he can kill a troglodyte faster with his two-weapon fighting than the cooldown on Finger of Death takes to refresh (although I'd probably Finger of Death while meleeing if I had the caster prowess).

On my 16 sorcerer who is closer to a more typical caster I generally Finger of Death throughout it except when portals #7-#12 are in action, then I use a cloud to bring trogs to me so I can whack a portal and finger them as they arrive instead of chasing them down.

[Junts]

The character in question would resume the same method to a degree because he can kill a troglodyte faster with his two-weapon fighting than the cooldown on Finger of Death takes to refresh (although I'd probably Finger of Death while meleeing if I had the caster prowess).

On my 16 sorcerer who is closer to a more typical caster I generally Finger of Death throughout it except when portals #7-#12 are in action, then I use a cloud to bring trogs to me so I can whack a portal and finger them as they arrive instead of chasing them down.

Agreed, the bezekira that spawn during that stretch aren't worth ranging ahead to prevent; just the teleporters do enough damage/take the melees long enough to kill to be worth preventing.

[Ollathir]

.... This was not even in reference to a specific incident - more just bland "WHY??" because I ask them, in game "Why did you just put a solid fog on the portal?" and no one ever will tell me.

Do you really think those same people bother reading the forums?


For the most part if we run with a pug caster and they do something, not beneficial, we tell them, they don't do it again. Though I understand Cow's position as well. If they can back-up why their doing it, great.

[Samadhi]

Do you really think those same people bother reading the forums?


For the most part if we run with a pug caster and they do something, not beneficial, we tell them, they don't do it again. Though I understand Cow's position as well. If they can back-up why their doing it, great.

Well said, on this note: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090227-psychedelic-fish-video-vin.html

[smatt]

Agreed. Part 1 is easy enough? yes?

Reminds me of a person crying for bard songs!

I did that the other night and the bastard broke into Thriller :eek: Needless to say, that bard won't get anymore gigs from me :cool:

[tyranthraxus]

Well said, on this note: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...video-vin.html

I'd smoke that fish.

[Sirea]

I know some casters who do this well, and further its pretty much required if you're gonna do this as a wizard as they just don't have the sp to finger everything - clearing all portals on my sorceror costs a ton of sp .. 35 mobs x 45 sp = 1600ish sp.

And that's not accounting for if the mob saves and you have to cast again, or if you throw any buffs. My wizard has 1850 SP and if I try to finger everything in there, she still runs out a lot of the time. On my sorc I'm much more inclined to just FoD/PK because of the larger mana pool. if you can do the crowd control method and it works for you, great. If you have the mana to blow on FoDs, then do it that way. Both work, and both can be effective in the hands of a competent player.

[Anthios888]

Drama!

[ramalad]

Every good caster knows grease is the only spell you need in part 1.

[Comfortably]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

I guess I can understand your frustration when it comes to Dancing balls, some people do get really bad lag from them; but I can't help to wonder why your posting this...why do you care what they do, Cloud kill and web vs. PK/FoD...just let them choose what's better for their playstyle.

[Airie]

@OP:

uhh killing trogs in part 1, or the lack thereof, is the least of the "bad caster" problems in the shroud... i'm surprised you highlighted this one example, and frankly makes me question the quality of your shroud casting.

without a doubt, of all my toons, some of which are DECKED OUT on gear with a quality build, GUARANTEED my wizard gets the smoothest shroud runs consistently. Always. I have a battle bard with shroud gear and max dmg on songs. I have an evasion barbarian with shroud/DT gear. I have an evasion cleric complete with all gear he could possibly want. I have serious dps builds. NONE of these characters have half the influence on the difficulty of the shroud as my main Wizard. and my main wizard can't even contribute that much dps. But the trash devils are on lockdown with web, i prefer firewall / cloudkill in part 1 (i melee portals, let the DoT and the pikers kill the mobs) but am open-minded, but most importantly I actually debuff Harry. I see so many shroud groups that either have no wizard at all, or the wizard is just lazy, where the caster throws up an acid fog and then just polar rays for the rest of the fight.... that is not debuffing. thats a sorc move... and frankly sorcs without debuff spells loaded suck compared to wizards in this particular quest. and groups that fill with 1 or 2 sorcs and no wizards are asking for a harder to heal group than if they had a wiz.

I would rank the "bad caster" problems in the shroud something like this...

1) lack of debuffs on red names (esp Harry)
2) dying in pt 4
3) poor aggro management in part 2 (dragging the orthon with you to the crystal)
4) buffing THEN going back to the tavern for SP... cmon, is this really necessary? still?
5) poor sp management in pt 4
6) not casting rage often enough
7) leaving without putting up a fresh extended ddoor
...
27, because i really dont give a ****) not killing trogs quickly enough in pt 1

[Samadhi]

@OP:

uhh killing trogs in part 1, or the lack thereof, is the least of the "bad caster" problems in the shroud... i'm surprised you highlighted this one example, and frankly makes me question the quality of your shroud casting.


Handling a rednamed by yourself takes some degree of twitch. I would not expect every caster to be able to handle it.

Killing some trogs takes almost no skill whatsoever. Therefore I expect any caster to be able to handle it.

Does that make things simpler for you?

[Charlemagne2]

I guess I can understand your frustration when it comes to Dancing balls, some people do get really bad lag from them; but I can't help to wonder why your posting this...why do you care what they do, Cloud kill and web vs. PK/FoD...just let them choose what's better for their playstyle.

word...its really that simple

[Samadhi]

4) buffing THEN going back to the tavern for SP... cmon, is this really necessary? still?


Hehe - I would put this number one :D

[Loden]

@OP:

uhh killing trogs in part 1, or the lack thereof, is the least of the "bad caster" problems in the shroud... i'm surprised you highlighted this one example, and frankly makes me question the quality of your shroud casting.

without a doubt, of all my toons, some of which are DECKED OUT on gear with a quality build, GUARANTEED my wizard gets the smoothest shroud runs consistently. Always. I have a battle bard with shroud gear and max dmg on songs. I have an evasion barbarian with shroud/DT gear. I have an evasion cleric complete with all gear he could possibly want. I have serious dps builds. NONE of these characters have half the influence on the difficulty of the shroud as my main Wizard. and my main wizard can't even contribute that much dps. But the trash devils are on lockdown with web, i prefer firewall / cloudkill in part 1 (i melee portals, let the DoT and the pikers kill the mobs) but am open-minded, but most importantly I actually debuff Harry. I see so many shroud groups that either have no wizard at all, or the wizard is just lazy, where the caster throws up an acid fog and then just polar rays for the rest of the fight.... that is not debuffing. thats a sorc move... and frankly sorcs without debuff spells loaded suck compared to wizards in this particular quest. and groups that fill with 1 or 2 sorcs and no wizards are asking for a harder to heal group than if they had a wiz.

I would rank the "bad caster" problems in the shroud something like this...

1) lack of debuffs on red names (esp Harry)
2) dying in pt 4
3) poor aggro management in part 2 (dragging the orthon with you to the crystal)
4) buffing THEN going back to the tavern for SP... cmon, is this really necessary? still?
5) poor sp management in pt 4
6) not casting rage often enough
7) leaving without putting up a fresh extended ddoor
...
27, because i really dont give a ****) not killing trogs quickly enough in pt 1

Nice post Airie.. I have to agree with you that if you need a caster to complete part 1 ... just re-roll, join a better pug or go play checkers...

[smatt]

7) leaving without putting up a fresh extended ddoor



Extended DDoors??????? Noob :p

[Nevthial]

4) buffing THEN going back to the tavern for SP... cmon, is this really necessary? still?

If the group requests it, I'll do it for the Shroud. Sometimes having enough sp to maintain control is useful. It all depends on group makeup and so forth.

[macros123]

Hehe - I would put this number one :D


So you think it bad form to go back to the tavern for mana, then bellyache on the forums about not having enough mana to finger all the trash. Do you imagine that a wizard that barely scrapes into the Shroud in the first place (because most leaders are unimaginative enough to adapt playstyle to accomodate more than one caster) is going to waste mana pots in part 1?

You can't have it both ways. If you expect them to have the mana to satisfy you, and then look down your nose at them for trying to go in with the most resources at their disposal, I'd avoid your LFM everytime I saw it thereafter.

[Loden]

So you think it bad form to go back to the tavern for mana, then bellyache on the forums about not having enough mana to finger all the trash. Do you imagine that a wizard that barely scrapes into the Shroud in the first place (because most leaders are unimaginative enough to adapt playstyle to accomodate more than one caster) is going to waste mana pots in part 1?

You can't have it both ways. If you expect them to have the mana to satisfy you, and then look down your nose at them for trying to go in with the most resources at their disposal, I'd avoid your LFM everytime I saw it thereafter.

Well Said ..

[Venar]

Finger trogs right and you get no devils at all. Not even the bezekira if you know your shroud.

But, on the other side, who cares if a Orthon pops. Nothing a Hold Monster and a few puncturing swings / woo-woo swings cant handle.

[Samadhi]

So you think it bad form to go back to the tavern for mana, then bellyache on the forums about not having enough mana to finger all the trash. Do you imagine that a wizard that barely scrapes into the Shroud in the first place (because most leaders are unimaginative enough to adapt playstyle to accomodate more than one caster) is going to waste mana pots in part 1?

You can't have it both ways. If you expect them to have the mana to satisfy you, and then look down your nose at them for trying to go in with the most resources at their disposal, I'd avoid your LFM everytime I saw it thereafter.

Wow the unrelenting hate continues :D I think it's a waste of time to cast a bunch of unneeded buffs. Bard songs, mass protect, haste, and go. (Although I usually will toss a jump to clerics and a tumble to friends). I play a wizard as well as sorcs, if you reread this thread, and rarely see a group with poor enough DPS that mana becomes such an issue...

[Loden]

I think it's a waste of time to cast a bunch of unneeded buffs. Bard songs, mass protect, haste, and go. (Although I usually will toss a jump to clerics and a tumble to friends). I play a wizard as well as sorcs, if you reread this thread, and rarely see a group with poor enough DPS that mana becomes such an issue...

hmmmm ... this sounds like you are backtracking from your original post. You seem to be a dictator in your original thread and now you seem more like you are making suggestions ....


Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

[Comfortably]

Again; just let the caster do what ever they feal most comfortable with, maybe casting fod/pk every few secs lags them out? Or maybe they don't have the spell pen to pk/fod or the sp pool from which to cast fod/pk with...no need to have this thread at all...

[Loden]

Again; just let the caster do what ever they feal most comfortable with, maybe casting fod/pk every few secs lags them out? Or maybe they don't have the spell pen to pk/fod or the sp pool from which to cast fod/pk with...no need to have this thread at all...

agreed ... ppl need to stop dictating to others how to play this game..

[Junts]

So you think it bad form to go back to the tavern for mana, then bellyache on the forums about not having enough mana to finger all the trash. Do you imagine that a wizard that barely scrapes into the Shroud in the first place (because most leaders are unimaginative enough to adapt playstyle to accomodate more than one caster) is going to waste mana pots in part 1?

You can't have it both ways. If you expect them to have the mana to satisfy you, and then look down your nose at them for trying to go in with the most resources at their disposal, I'd avoid your LFM everytime I saw it thereafter.

If you ran with him, you would find that Sam is a good guy and an excellent player who simply completely lacks all patience for taking 20-25% longer to do the quest than is necessary; whether its a raid or a level 8 thing, Sam is the crazy guy with sprintboost who's 4 rooms ahead, because he's just a little bit of a speed freak.

[smatt]

I spent an entire VoD raid yesterday looking for a portal to cast a fog on :D

[SimVerg]

If the group requests it, I'll do it for the Shroud. Sometimes having enough sp to maintain control is useful. It all depends on group makeup and so forth.

If a group requests I recall for sp, I'll drop. 0 interest in taking an hour to do the Shroud.

[ramalad]

agreed ... ppl need to stop dictating to others how to play this game..

Can I quote you when I run my next shroud and only cast grease and ice storm? :)

Kidding aside, there are people who play this game that make running quests like the shroud, hound, and VOD painful.

And if I joined your shroud group and made it take longer than it should would you defend me from the inevitable remarks I would hear from PO'd party members?

[Quikster]

If a group requests I recall for sp, I'll drop. 0 interest in taking an hour to do the Shroud.

I had a group recall and reform because I refused to recall :D

FWIW You don't need any casters for shroud 1-5. Or you can take 12. Either way has been done. I usually take 1-3 and once was in a group with 5. We were seconds from a one round 4.

When on my caster I clear pt 1 trash unless I see a melee doing it, then I tensnors and beat portals. When someone complains I point them in the direction of the melee that is clearing ahead of the group. If I run out of mana I ask a clr to finish up.....

[tyranthraxus]

agreed ... ppl need to stop dictating to others how to play this game..

Says the guy who is here less than 2 months. :rolleyes:

[smatt]

To each their own... You don't need this or need a lot of things depending on how many 1,000's of times you've run a frigan quest... If you're elite or uber or just well equipped and done it over an over and over... Well there it is.... If you haven't, maybe you run with a less experienced guild, maybe you onyl play a few hours a week, maybe you aren't a natural twitch skill player or you aren't a 20-30 something video game prodigy :rolleyes: But I do think the attitudes of some people go way over the top, they think far too highly of themselves, and have little understandign that people are different..... I'm guilty myself for sure... But jeeeeezzzzz.... :eek:

I was thinking ls tnight about my first Shroud completion, it was about 4 or 5 weeks after it came out.... We completed on elite with NO I repeat no fancing crystal breaking, no fancy summoning ****.. If I recall it was one of the fist elite completions on Ghallandra, and it felt good. It was my FIRST completion, and was a very hard fought elite completion that took hours, back when Harry actually had Hit points, toons wern't ideally equipped, and we didn't have the beneift of 10's of thousands of runs of combined experience.... Now many of the things we did then seem really lame and a waste of time now.. Most of the people in that group had been playing for a long time already and so were reasonably experienced players. Maybe consider that there are in fact players out there that don't have that benefit even now... But I guess that may be hard for some people to do..... Jeez people pull your heads out of your elitist arses :D can't you just wait till the flood of NEW players comes in, in a few months....

[Daerius of the Blessed Blades]

Every good caster knows grease is the only spell you need in part 1.
And once again, we have overlooked Merfolk's Blessing. Don't EVER forget the Merfolks!


""Splish""

Excuse me...heading back to the tavern for mana now...

[Jondallar]

To each their own... You don't need this or need a lot of things depending on how many 1,000's of times you've run a frigan quest... If you're elite or uber or just well equipped and done it over an over and over... Well there it is.... If you haven't, maybe you run with a less experienced guild, maybe you onyl play a few hours a week, maybe you aren't a natural twitch skill player or you aren't a 20-30 something video game prodigy :rolleyes: But I do think the attitudes of some people go way over the top, they think far too highly of themselves, and have little understandign that people are different..... I'm guilty myself for sure... But jeeeeezzzzz.... :eek:

I was thinking ls tnight about my first Shroud completion, it was about 4 or 5 weeks after it came out.... We completed on elite with NO I repeat no fancing crystal breaking, no fancy summoning ****.. If I recall it was one of the fist elite completions on Ghallandra, and it felt good. It was my FIRST completion, and was a very hard fought elite completion that took hours, back when Harry actually had Hit points, toons wern't ideally equipped, and we didn't have the beneift of 10's of thousands of runs of combined experience.... Now many of the things we did then seem really lame and a waste of time now.. Most of the people in that group had been playing for a long time already and so were reasonably experienced players. Maybe consider that there are in fact players out there that don't have that benefit even now... But I guess that may be hard for some people to do..... Jeez people pull your heads out of your elitist arses :D can't you just wait till the flood of NEW players comes in, in a few months....

Have you considered the fact that the tactics developed by people like yourself nd others who completed the Shroud early are what is trying to be conveyed in this thread. Only a fool disregards experience.

Also pugs on Ghallanda do a wierd portal attack pattern. There is a much more streamlined order of engaging portals that leads to less spawned portals opened at a time. If unoptomized pugs adopted that order there would be less fails of part 1

[Samadhi]

....

I don't think you were in the first leet shroud I did

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3622022515_4e2821e1fa.jpg

But judging by the goofy looking blonde dude in the white dragon scale it looks like someone let you into the first leet VOD ^^

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3622022523_cd79081ee7.jpg

[smatt]

Have you considered the fact that the tactics developed by people like yourself nd others who completed the Shroud early are what is trying to be conveyed in this thread. Only a fool disregards experience.

Also pugs on Ghallanda do a wierd portal attack pattern. There is a much more streamlined order of engaging portals that leads to less spawned portals opened at a time. If unoptomized pugs adopted that order there would be less fails of part 1

Oh I agree... There is no doubt about it... That's why I included myself as well :D It's easy for me to sit here and type that post while not in game..... But I'm certainly guilty of many of those practices of utter impatience, eye rolling, and frustration at what I see as tactics that are a total waste of my time in game. But I do check myself, or at least try to check myself when there are people I'm playing with that obviously haven't done this or that as much.

That's all I'm saying....

[smatt]

I don't think you were in the first leet shroud I did

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3622022515_4e2821e1fa.jpg

But judging by the goofy looking blonde dude in the white dragon scale it looks like someone let you into the first leet VOD ^^

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3622022523_cd79081ee7.jpg


Hey man... That was pure class back in the day :D

[Comfortably]

Hey man... That was pure gimp back in the day :D

Fixed it for ya~~

[Leyoni]

I only PUG and have run Shroud many times on both my level capped melees (Cratesmasher and Therindal). Neither is spectacular but I've never seen a failure in part 1.

If OP is getting groups that fail in part 1 I don't even know what to say about it. I'm barely competent and have been in some really strange Shroud PUGs but failing in part 1 just never has happened to me.

[Thorzian]

So you think it bad form to go back to the tavern for mana, then bellyache on the forums about not having enough mana to finger all the trash. Do you imagine that a wizard that barely scrapes into the Shroud in the first place (because most leaders are unimaginative enough to adapt playstyle to accomodate more than one caster) is going to waste mana pots in part 1?

You can't have it both ways. If you expect them to have the mana to satisfy you, and then look down your nose at them for trying to go in with the most resources at their disposal, I'd avoid your LFM everytime I saw it thereafter.

what possible caster buffs do you need in part 1? If someone gets hit with fear, there are 2 clerics in the group to remove it. so no gh nescessary. the portals are a roll1 and miss, roll 2 and hit. the trogs hit like wimps. any cleric can heal through burning blood. true seeing is the only buff needed in there. so unless some wizard out there actually carries it and buffs the party with it, casters go through the portal with full sp. no need to return to town

[macros123]

That only serves to reinforce my point, Thorzian. Part 1 of the Shroud IS a joke, relatively speaking. Yet the OP has complained that he is tired of it taking too long, or even failing in part 1.

To be blunt, whomever holds the star and forms the group should be taking all necessary steps for a completion. If he has tactics in mind he/she should state "This is how I would like this to be done....any questions?" And that is that.

If someone is INCAPABLE of doing what is requested (in this example a low spell pen score or low mana pool) then the leader should not demand what is not possible from the other, but be able to recognize that his origional vision is flawed (even if only for that run) and adjust his tactics to suit. Or in an extreme case of unimaginativeness, tell the other that you really want to use said tactic, and if they can't do so, drop so the group can fill with what is required.

If someone specifically ignores istruction and causes problems, then deal with it. But if the only request by the OP is "Dude, you are on roaming" then ignore them asuming the job will be done, then at least half of the blame for failure/longer completion time rests on him.

If you are gonna hold the star and be a leader of men, then LEAD. Whichever way you wnat to, but lead.

But coming to the forums and alternating between tyranny and whining does not inspire confidence in my leader at all, but that's just me.

[Venar]

I think that many players now expect 30 minutes shrouds.
So they become impatient about bad tactics. They see each sub-par action as a waste of their time.

Personally, i still aim at the 60 minute mark. But, i cut on form-time and grab whatever, monks, paladins, gimps, 3 casters, baaah. To me, a raid timer start when the LFM goes up. While some take 45 minutes to form and 25 minutes to run, i'll take 10 minutes to form and 1h to run.

Fent's pug runs are kinda slow. But they NEVER fail. Ever.

[Samadhi]

Why is it "wrong" to want to run quests efficiently? I don't join groups posting to go slow, then zerg. I always post "ZERG in progress know way" or the like in my LFM's. Do I get irate when people join these runs and are clueless? At times, but I rarely display more than some quiet sarcasm :D.

[smatt]

Fixed it for ya~~


Ah but Sir Comf..... At least I'm a gimped player running gimped toons.... There for "I" have a good excuse for being just that :D

[smatt]

Why is it "wrong" to want to run quests efficiently? I don't join groups posting to go slow, then zerg. I always post "ZERG in progress know way" or the like in my LFM's. Do I get irate when people join these runs and are clueless? At times, but I rarely display more than some quiet sarcasm :D.

There's nothing wrong with it.... :D

Sacasm is a friend to many :p

[AmoebaCowboy]

For the record, I'm relatively new to the game (<6 months) and PUG the Shroud consistently. While I don't have hundreds of completions (19 complete, 36+ farm runs), I have never, ever, seen a failed Part 1. Just wanted to say thanks for the explanation on Part 1 fail conditions from Mr Cow and others in this thread. I had no idea :)

[Ranmaru2]

Sam, the only reason the CC strategy usually fails is that some tank thinks that no one is taking care of the trash (when they're being detoured to one location) and starts attacking the enemies. I've tried to do it and it saves A LOT of sp and works well if the tanks that are in the group will concentrate on their role of beating the portals down.

[Return_To_Forever]

I think that many players now expect 30 minutes shrouds.
So they become impatient about bad tactics. They see each sub-par action as a waste of their time.

Personally, i still aim at the 60 minute mark. But, i cut on form-time and grab whatever, monks, paladins, gimps, 3 casters, baaah. To me, a raid timer start when the LFM goes up. While some take 45 minutes to form and 25 minutes to run, i'll take 10 minutes to form and 1h to run.

Fent's pug runs are kinda slow. But they NEVER fail. Ever.

Meh, this is inaccurate, somehow you think a fast shroud and a slow shroud have some huge difference in starting time. Lets assume there isn't a big difference, and then your 60 min shroud looks alot worse. If its your playstyle to take your time and so on, cool, but the arguement that the filling time is a deciding factor, that somehow makes a slower run more reasonable, is false. Hands down for most of us who are on a bajillionth completion, would like to get the grind over as smooth and quick as possible.

[cpito]

blah blah bajillionth completion blah

make that bajillion and 1

[kamimitsu]

So I finally leveled up a Wiz. WF 14Wiz/2Rog for stealthy/solo type stuff. As such, I've been really dreading taking him in his first shroud. Low mana (1388sp) and lack of 'caster skill' (in terms of what to throw when and at whom) has me worried. I hadn't really planned on him being a "primary nuking caster" (he's really just for my solo pleasure during off-peak times), but I will need to craft some Shroud gear, which means a few runs to collect shards and do the actual crafting. Which brings me to my conundrum:

I'm pretty sure that I'd run out of SP before I could finger all the trogs as I find my FoD doesn't land as much as I'd like (even though I have a Spell Pen item, and both Spell Pen feats). So, if I understand correctly I should either: A) FoD everything (though I'd imagine I'd have to do that in tandem with a 2nd caster, or run out of mana before it's over); or, B) use a combination of fog cloud on a few portals, with web and cloudkill in a separate location to drag multiple enemies to a death trap.

Are those the only viable (or at least recommended) options? Also, I know some folks said 'screw buffs' but what buffs are generally expected?

[Baranor]

I have a guildy that likes to vorpal them too - that doesn't mean that way is quicker. After running a quest over 300 times, though, efficiency is the name of the game. While you are beating on trogs with a dreamspitter, that portal is losing DPS that you could be doing to it. Pick up some GCB's and stop slacking please.

just for the record, my vorpal is LESSER CONSTRUCT BANE and therefore multipurpose ;)

mass hold FTW and hack away lol

[FluffyCalico]

just for the record, my vorpal is LESSER CONSTRUCT BANE and therefore multipurpose ;)

mass hold FTW and hack away lol

Anyone who beats a portal with lesser construct bane needs to be introduced to level 6 gear.

[Baranor]

So I finally leveled up a Wiz. WF 14Wiz/2Rog for stealthy/solo type stuff. As such, I've been really dreading taking him in his first shroud. Low mana (1388sp) and lack of 'caster skill' (in terms of what to throw when and at whom) has me worried. I hadn't really planned on him being a "primary nuking caster" (he's really just for my solo pleasure during off-peak times), but I will need to craft some Shroud gear, which means a few runs to collect shards and do the actual crafting. Which brings me to my conundrum:

I'm pretty sure that I'd run out of SP before I could finger all the trogs as I find my FoD doesn't land as much as I'd like (even though I have a Spell Pen item, and both Spell Pen feats). So, if I understand correctly I should either: A) FoD everything (though I'd imagine I'd have to do that in tandem with a 2nd caster, or run out of mana before it's over); or, B) use a combination of fog cloud on a few portals, with web and cloudkill in a separate location to drag multiple enemies to a death trap.

Are those the only viable (or at least recommended) options? Also, I know some folks said 'screw buffs' but what buffs are generally expected?

gh, blur and jump usually

actually got into a little trouble w/ a pug group over nonbuffing and a mt
group seemed a little miffed at me bcus I didnt want to buff and when ftr type asked for gh I responded that I hoped they didnt need the +4 to hit a portal( or something to that effect)

dont mind giving clerics jump but most others shouldnt need jump or could get from rangers

I do give myself GH though cus my vorpal is race restricted and I need the umd to equip and I always forget to equip early :P

[Baranor]

Anyone who beats a portal with lesser construct bane needs to be introduced to level 6 gear.

umm...
you see it's...
that is to say.....

IT'S A +2 VORPAL LONGSWORD OF LESSER CONSTRUCT BANE AND IT'S 12 LEVEL RR
OH AND IT'S FUNNY

[FluffyCalico]

when ftr type asked for gh I responded that I hoped they didnt need the +4 to hit a portal

GH is for fear immunity if you don't have immunity on the 2nd tier of your shroud item. Most people don't since GH is one of the major buffs you always have on and well beholders don't cast fear much lol

[Baranor]

GH is for fear immunity if you don't have immunity on the 2nd tier of your shroud item. Most people don't since GH is one of the major buffs you always have on and well beholders don't cast fear much lol

true enough but that would lack the intended sarcasm wouldnt it

as stated somewhere in this too long of a thread that its not really needed as remove fear is easy enough

[ChaelaAnne]

umm...
you see it's...
that is to say.....

IT'S A +2 VORPAL LONGSWORD OF LESSER CONSTRUCT BANE AND IT'S 12 LEVEL RR
OH AND IT'S FUNNY

Don't forget that you also love annoying the urine out of your guildies by posting the vorp in guild chat EVER TIME YOU GET ONE.

[Sirea]

Don't forget that you also love annoying the urine out of your guildies by posting the vorp in guild chat EVER TIME YOU GET ONE.

I didn't know you could vorp portals :eek: :p

[FluffyCalico]

umm...
you see it's...
that is to say.....

IT'S A +2 VORPAL LONGSWORD OF LESSER CONSTRUCT BANE AND IT'S 12 LEVEL RR
OH AND IT'S FUNNY

So its gear that was out since before mod 1 with a terrible buff that doesn't stack with the origional effect. Still a very terrible weapon.

I would take a +1 vorpal of nothing + any real weapon in the pack over that POS.
Oh by the way unless you are letting the orthons spawn it's quicker to just kill the trash than vorp it. Whip out a min2 or triple positive and you will take out the trash and the portal both faster. Again loose the garbage.

[ChaelaAnne]

I didn't know you could vorp portals :eek: :p

No, you can't. BUT, he CAN go toe to toe in an epic battle with every trog he can find.

And trust me. He does.

[FluffyCalico]

No, you can't. BUT, he CAN go toe to toe in an epic battle with every trog he can find.

And trust me. He does.

20 swings per trog is worthy of being replaced with a level 13 monk.

[ChaelaAnne]

20 swings per trog is worthy of being replaced with a level 13 monk.

Lol, I hope you realize that I'm purely harrassing Baranor because I can. He's actually a VERY good caster, and basically uses that vorp on very smooth runs, and only at the end. Because he can.

[ChaelaAnne]

So its gear that was out since before mod 1 with a terrible buff that doesn't stack with the origional effect. Still a very terrible weapon.

I would take a +1 vorpal of nothing + any real weapon in the pack over that POS.
Oh by the way unless you are letting the orthons spawn it's quicker to just kill the trash than vorp it. Whip out a min2 or triple positive and you will take out the trash and the portal both faster. Again loose the garbage.

While a min2 or a trip pos is a great idea on a wizard, I'm guessing he could find better things to use his ingrediants on.

[FluffyCalico]

While a min2 or a trip pos is a great idea on a wizard, I'm guessing he could find better things to use his ingrediants on.

Yeah like a sp item so he doesn't need to swing anything :eek:

[SimVerg]

So I finally leveled up a Wiz. WF 14Wiz/2Rog for stealthy/solo type stuff. As such, I've been really dreading taking him in his first shroud. Low mana (1388sp) and lack of 'caster skill' (in terms of what to throw when and at whom) has me worried. I hadn't really planned on him being a "primary nuking caster" (he's really just for my solo pleasure during off-peak times), but I will need to craft some Shroud gear, which means a few runs to collect shards and do the actual crafting. Which brings me to my conundrum:

I'm pretty sure that I'd run out of SP before I could finger all the trogs as I find my FoD doesn't land as much as I'd like (even though I have a Spell Pen item, and both Spell Pen feats). So, if I understand correctly I should either: A) FoD everything (though I'd imagine I'd have to do that in tandem with a 2nd caster, or run out of mana before it's over); or, B) use a combination of fog cloud on a few portals, with web and cloudkill in a separate location to drag multiple enemies to a death trap.

Are those the only viable (or at least recommended) options? Also, I know some folks said 'screw buffs' but what buffs are generally expected?

You can keep a SF/CK in the gap leading to right and body aggro trogs off portals as they spawn to lead them in to it. Most mana efficient way I've seen of clearing pt 1(other than Odd's strat, which isn't applicable to a group setting), although these days I prefer to just read a book/eat food and afk at the portals with the rest of the group. Having the group's dps drop 5% every third portal while someone vorps an orthon is worth less to me than having to actually pay attention, given that it's probably about 5 extra seconds spent in pt 1.

[Baranor]

20 swings per trog is worthy of being replaced with a level 13 monk.

Yeah like a sp item so he doesn't need to swing anything :eek:

dude it's not the point, why are you being so dense or are you just trying to be difficult?(I suspect the latter)

I like to vorpal stuff in there cus its funny to me, that's all just funny, and bcus I suspect it drives Sam a little crazy

I have a sp item and an int weapon so don't worry about it any longer

[smatt]

I didn't know you could vorp portals :eek: :p


You can't?????? Darn then that Vorp LS of greater construct bane I have is....... doo doo :mad:

[smatt]

You can keep a SF/CK in the gap leading to right and body aggro trogs off portals as they spawn to lead them in to it. Most mana efficient way I've seen of clearing pt 1(other than Odd's strat, which isn't applicable to a group setting), although these days I prefer to just read a book/eat food and afk at the portals with the rest of the group. Having the group's dps drop 5% every third portal while someone vorps an orthon is worth less to me than having to actually pay attention, given that it's probably about 5 extra seconds spent in pt 1.



Orthons are scary :p

[oogly54]

I agree with Samadhi here. After running a quest many, many, many, times, the only reason to run the quest is for the loot at the end. The thrill of actually running the quest is gone. If most of us are running the quest for the 100th+ time, then most of us are looking to run the quest as efficiently as possible. This post was not about part one being hard or failing it, it is about running it effciently.

The first question I would ask then is, Why do you have ANY casters in the party at all?

If you do have a caster in the party (you let a friend in :) ) , then the FOD is BY FAR the most effcient method. Especially when most groups run with two clerics, which can also help in the killing with Destruction. If trogs die fast, clerics will have LOTS of mana to spare. All three trogs are dead, EVERYONE, EVERYONE, EVERYONE attack the portals. All clerics, casters, bards, everyone. I dont care if you only havea Sup Pot Club, with a bard you are still doing some decent damage, especially over time.

The funniest part of this thread is seeing RG act like they dont care how other people play in there groups. Fricken hilarious!

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

I like to pick up the axe and go to town.. I even pick it up on a dex toon, why? BECAUSE I CAN AND WILL!!!!

My cleric led the kill count because she was just trolling for trogs with it and beating them snotless, and did the group fail? No. Did the group get slower? No. Did anyone even notice? Yea, the ranger guy who was trying to catch up in kills.

[smatt]

All kidding aside, not that I disagree with Samahdi as far as how frustrating it can be.... He and others assume that all things are equal, and while chastising others for being noobs or not up to their elite standards, then go on to pronounce their uber-eliteness. That completly ignores that perhaps, especially with PuGs that every player doesn't have the same knowledge, same skill level, same experience as they themselves have. Or that every player goes through the tireless process of coming up with uber character planner builds. Which still leads to some pretty funny er eum mistakes :D

There are still many ways to do the Shroud, and while some claim to have the best way, I often see the best way at times bested by other players who use different tactics THEY are used to using. Projecting ones skill level, whether it be in twitch play, toon building, game knowledge, equipment.... Etc etc.... In variably will lead to unneccesary frustrations, that is unless you run with the same exact people all the time. Claiming that this is or isn't "needed" is besides the point, it doesn't mean that some things help but aren't needed..... Hey, I don't NEED a frigan slice of lime in my Maggie, nor do I NEED a float of Grand Marny... But both of those things sure do help :D

[Samadhi]

Well stated Ooog thank you.

[Venar]

Orthons are scary :p

Play with the Fent more.
Orthons then come in a nice blue ribbon package of auto-crit.

[Riggs]

Fod everything in sight is effective when all the melees are either afk on every portal or suck. A full group should be a moulinex, if 9-12 people ALL swing on the trogs on the way in to a portal - they all go down in like 1-2 seconds....whats the cooldown on 3 fingers? Is it LESS than 1-2 seconds? Net result - the group loses like 2 seconds of dps on a portal....for a grand total of like 20-30 seconds longer in a raid...maybe.

I have seen plenty of groups, usually pugs of some type, run into problems (usually on my cleric), where people run around, the caster is off somewhere attemtping to kill stuff, and because the melees all think 'well its the casters job to kill trogs' - they ignore all the monsters around them. The ones hitting them. The caster blasting the group over and over again with dbf. And 2 people just got feared because they dont have girds and no one bothered with gh. And then continue to get cleaved by an orthon because everyone is ignoring everything except the portal, and the cleric is getting ticked off watching all this trying to keep stupid people healed.

Or to put it simply - there are a lot of ways to run a shroud - but if everyone hits stuff on the way by - maybe it might add 20 or 30 seconds to the raid, or maybe it makes it faster and easier (so what happens if you have a wiz not a sorc, and they cant fod everything? does everyone just still ignore all the monsters for the last few portals?). From the cleric perspective - it makes things a lot simpler if people all just kill the stuff attacking them - rather than standing around hitting a portal while getting hit in the back for 20 seconds.

If a caster is bored they can roam ahead - or just have dual holy weapons at the very least and beat on portal like everyone else instead of standing there for 20 seconds waiting for fod to recharge. The dps added from attacking the portal should make up for the lost 2 seconds from the entire group vaporizing 3 poor trogs on the way past.

Or to put it another way - if a full group NEEDS my caster to fod everything - because it takes TOO LONG to kill trogs and the occasional orthon - then the problem isnt the caster in the group - its the 8 or 9 melees who bascially suck. And the group is going to take a lot longer to do part 1, 2 4 AND 5, and probably 3 as well, never mind what the caster is doing in part 1.

Lots of ways to do things, and many work fine...and fast.

[macros123]

I agree with Samadhi here. After running a quest many, many, many, times, the only reason to run the quest is for the loot at the end. The thrill of actually running the quest is gone. If most of us are running the quest for the 100th+ time, then most of us are looking to run the quest as efficiently as possible. This post was not about part one being hard or failing it, it is about running it effciently. Not so. This post was about demanding all casters use FOD and nothing else. Not "use FOD unless you are able to be more effecient than that."

The first question I would ask then is, Why do you have ANY casters in the party at all? Agreed. You shouldn't bring casters at all. Rangers are without a doubt the best class in the game, and as such rolling other classes at all is a waste of time. Only rangers should enter the Shroud at all....for the sake of efficiency.

If you do have a caster in the party (you let a friend in :) ) , then the FOD is BY FAR the most effcient method. Especially when most groups run with two clerics, which can also help in the killing with Destruction. You are missing the main point of those opposing the OP in this. Using FOD is only more efficient if you have the mana to support that tactic, and a spell pen score high enogh to make that a viable tactic. Otherwise you will be out of mana by the 6th or 7th portal and how then is that more efficient? If trogs die fast, clerics will have LOTS of mana to spare. All three trogs are dead, EVERYONE, EVERYONE, EVERYONE attack the portals. All clerics, casters, bards, everyone. I dont care if you only havea Sup Pot Club, with a bard you are still doing some decent damage, especially over time.

The funniest part of this thread is seeing RG act like they dont care how other people play in there groups. Fricken hilarious!


Do try to understand that FoD is a great tactic when it works, but that it only works when conditions are right for it. Spell pen score and a good mana pool are the suppot for this tactic - as well as skill and experience, and lacking the support of one or two of these four things is like building your house without a wall or two.......just doesn't work, bud.

[oogly54]

Fod everything in sight is effective when all the melees are either afk on every portal or suck. A full group should be a moulinex, if 9-12 people ALL swing on the trogs on the way in to a portal - they all go down in like 1-2 seconds....whats the cooldown on 3 fingers? Is it LESS than 1-2 seconds? Net result - the group loses like 2 seconds of dps on a portal....for a grand total of like 20-30 seconds longer in a raid...maybe.

I have seen plenty of groups, usually pugs of some type, run into problems (usually on my cleric), where people run around, the caster is off somewhere attemtping to kill stuff, and because the melees all think 'well its the casters job to kill trogs' - they ignore all the monsters around them. The ones hitting them. The caster blasting the group over and over again with dbf. And 2 people just got feared because they dont have girds and no one bothered with gh. And then continue to get cleaved by an orthon because everyone is ignoring everything except the portal, and the cleric is getting ticked off watching all this trying to keep stupid people healed.

Or to put it simply - there are a lot of ways to run a shroud - but if everyone hits stuff on the way by - maybe it might add 20 or 30 seconds to the raid, or maybe it makes it faster and easier (so what happens if you have a wiz not a sorc, and they cant fod everything? does everyone just still ignore all the monsters for the last few portals?). From the cleric perspective - it makes things a lot simpler if people all just kill the stuff attacking them - rather than standing around hitting a portal while getting hit in the back for 20 seconds.

If a caster is bored they can roam ahead - or just have dual holy weapons at the very least and beat on portal like everyone else instead of standing there for 20 seconds waiting for fod to recharge. The dps added from attacking the portal should make up for the lost 2 seconds from the entire group vaporizing 3 poor trogs on the way past.

Or to put it another way - if a full group NEEDS my caster to fod everything - because it takes TOO LONG to kill trogs and the occasional orthon - then the problem isnt the caster in the group - its the 8 or 9 melees who bascially suck. And the group is going to take a lot longer to do part 1, 2 4 AND 5, and probably 3 as well, never mind what the caster is doing in part 1.

Lots of ways to do things, and many work fine...and fast.

I dont disagree with this method either, if all the tanks attack the trogs upon arriving at the portal they die very fast. Then the entire party can attack the portals together. This is still much better than CC, SF, Dorb, Web, etc.

The issue here arrises when only a couple tanks attack and the vorpaling doesnt work well. Then the portals go down slower and the trogs at the next portal start spawning other mobs. If ALL the tanks know they are killing prior to portal beating, it works great.

[wamjratl1]

If OP is getting groups that fail in part 1 I don't even know what to say about it. I'm barely competent and have been in some really strange Shroud PUGs but failing in part 1 just never has happened to me.

I am sure that's what sparked this thread lol...:rolleyes:

[oogly54]

Do try to understand that FoD is a great tactic when it works, but that it only works when conditions are right for it. Spell pen score and a good mana pool are the suppot for this tactic - as well as skill and experience, and lacking the support of one or two of these four things is like building your house without a wall or two.......just doesn't work, bud.

Maybe this is the problem, too many think the above type of caster is ok to play and no one will care that you are gimp. WRONG! Your gimp build idea is not fun to carry around like dead weight. REROLL!!!

[Ciphertazi]

I like to finger one and stone/woowoostick the other (FTS less mana than FOD) woo wooo woooooo wooo wooo wooo :P

[Thrudh]

The issue here arrises when only a couple tanks attack and the vorpaling doesnt work well.

You use vorpals on trogs? :)

[Yshkabibble]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

Call me old fashioned but I take em to dinner first usually.

[chester99]

When I'm on my cleric, if casters put up something stupid, I've taken to dispelling it immediately. Dancing ball? dispelled. wall of fire? dispelled. some casters figure it out faster than others, but it makes the quest fun as I let the group try to figure out what could possibly be breaking those oh-so-useful enchantments.

[Riggs]

I dont disagree with this method either, if all the tanks attack the trogs upon arriving at the portal they die very fast. Then the entire party can attack the portals together. This is still much better than CC, SF, Dorb, Web, etc.

The issue here arrises when only a couple tanks attack and the vorpaling doesnt work well. Then the portals go down slower and the trogs at the next portal start spawning other mobs. If ALL the tanks know they are killing prior to portal beating, it works great.

Indeed. It mostly comes down to people working together and knowing what others are doing....if everyone starts running around or doing different things, it can get messy and annoying for no good reason.

Dps for trogs, puncturing probably for orthons....sometimes waiting for a 20 is a lot worse than con damage. (Seen plently of orthons get beaten to death by damage with 4 people hitting it with vorpals....). Even sheer dps on orthons works too if everyone does it.

[Riggs]

The ck method often works if the caster is decent and knows how to keep everything agroed and kill it in the middle. Fogs on every portal or ck and everything simply runs to the caster in the middle, gets stuck in cc and dies in the ck.

It still takes longer than other methods, but it can be mana efficient.

But again if the caster is not good, they end up running all over running from stuff trying to kill them, pulling off the cleric having to chase them down to keep them alive. And since all the monsters have been alive for much longer while they run to the middle - you get a lot more devil types than needed.

My wiz (15/1 ftr) tends to fod the caster at each portal, and either kill the rest with a greataxe or let the group worry about the 2 spuds. Again 2 seconds of fighting max and then portal beating rather than running around. if the group is having trouble killing portals fast enough and devils are appearing from other portals....I am not going to have enough mana to fod every monster in part 1 anyway - so its really a melee issue again.

[samho]

When I'm on my cleric, if casters put up something stupid, I've taken to dispelling it immediately. Dancing ball? dispelled. wall of fire? dispelled. some casters figure it out faster than others, but it makes the quest fun as I let the group try to figure out what could possibly be breaking those oh-so-useful enchantments.


Yeah, I love whoever decide the firewall in front of portal was stupid and then proceed to throw break enhancement of it.


A well placed Maximize Empower Extended Firewall with Gloves of the Glacier cost about 62sp on my cha 26 battle mage (and each FoD cost 40 sp plus chance to save on my wizard), and it cook all trog spawn on the portal (they dying in 3 ~ 5 round, and burning trog tend to stay close to the Pyro, never run away and require someone chasing them around) while I'm beating portal with my GCB greataxe with 30 strength.

Unless those stalker or caster up (since they like to step back a bit and possible outside of my FW damage area, and they have way lower Fort save), I will just ignore them and continue beating portal ( and they do get my sp back by troc plus Concordinate Opposition setup ) -- and I have my stunning blow (or FoD on my wizard) awating.


So next time, please step up before the quest begin and saying FoD and ONLY FoD ALLOW, then I'll stop wasting my spell point to see it get dispell, THANK YOU GENIUS!


In short, not everyone's character setup was best for FoD/PK tactic.

( Side note :my active arcane on Ghallanda was Ironspeaker and Ironthought. Avoid them like plague, if you must. )

[smatt]

And that is the way I think is the mostest bestest ever :p

[chester99]

Yeah, I love whoever decide the firewall in front of portal was stupid and then proceed to throw break enhancement of it.


A well placed Maximize Empower Extended Firewall with Gloves of the Glacier cost about 62sp on my cha 26 battle mage (and each FoD cost 40 sp plus chance to save on my wizard), and it cook all trog spawn on the portal (they dying in 3 ~ 5 round, and burning trog tend to stay close to the Pyro, never run away and require someone chasing them around) while I'm beating portal with my GCB greataxe with 30 strength.

Unless those stalker or caster up (since they like to step back a bit and possible outside of my FW damage area, and they have way lower Fort save), I will just ignore them and continue beating portal ( and they do get my sp back by troc plus Concordinate Opposition setup ) -- and I have my stunning blow (or FoD on my wizard) awating.


So next time, please step up before the quest begin and saying FoD and ONLY FoD ALLOW, then I'll stop wasting my spell point to see it get dispell, THANK YOU GENIUS!


In short, not everyone's character setup was best for FoD/PK tactic.

( Side note :my active arcane on Ghallanda was Ironspeaker and Ironthought. Avoid them like plague, if you must. )

that may or may not be a viable strategy. let's assume it is. and let's also consider the reality of the shourd: a wall of fire will take what is normally a lag fest and turn it into a slide show for most people. same with dancing ball. eyes on the prize: finishing faster.... not lagging everyone out.

[samho]

that may or may not be a viable strategy. let's assume it is. and let's also consider the reality of the shourd: a wall of fire will take what is normally a lag fest and turn it into a slide show for most people. same with dancing ball. eyes on the prize: finishing faster.... not lagging everyone out.


So, the problem is no longer the strategy was viable or not, but possible the main cause of lag now?

As someone already point out early on: please don't play the lag card; and I do believe the potential lag cause might be the dancing ball itself, not everything involve AoE.

[Junts]

that may or may not be a viable strategy. let's assume it is. and let's also consider the reality of the shourd: a wall of fire will take what is normally a lag fest and turn it into a slide show for most people. same with dancing ball. eyes on the prize: finishing faster.... not lagging everyone out.



Player A is an excellent, creative individual with unique and very successful builds

Player B fails 1/3 the shrouds they run.

Gonna go with player A.

[Venar]

Or, just have everyone use shadowalk and run throught the blue barrier and click the altar.

[Mindspat]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

Here's a clue, you can pay me later:

You do not need Finger of Death if you play an Arcane Caster. :D

How do I deal with Gnolls in part 4 you ask? Just nuke 'm!

p.s. the last thing I'm going to do is get a stinky finger from the Trog's. :p

[macros123]

Maybe this is the problem, too many think the above type of caster is ok to play and no one will care that you are gimp. WRONG! Your gimp build idea is not fun to carry around like dead weight. REROLL!!!

LOL, this is my favourite post so far, for so many reasons. Perhaps my sarcasm was too subtle for you, let my try one last time, though I doubt it will do any good.

This game has such a great variety of races, classes, feats and enhancements that the number of permutations of these is staggering. (I'm sure that someone with better math skills than I can figure out just how many) To look at all of these options and say this "combination is the only one that supports walking around fingering trogs, so all other builds are gimp" is laughable. That Samhadi has run with people who were lacking in either skill or experience which cause him some frustration is understandable. To then say "reroll your character like this and that will make you usefull" is absurd.

There are so many different paths to explore, and while some of the combinations are better than others if obvious ways, there are plenty of builds that excell in one area where another is lacking. There is no one single build that is the best one for every scenario in the game, though there are some which are the best in a great many, which is why they become common.

The fact that you insist that there is only ONE right way do do anything hints to me that you are inflexible, and lack tactical play. If the variables in your party make-up aren't just right you struggle......your Kung-Fu is weak, my friend.

[Samadhi]

All right, let's put it this way.

Finger Orthons - difficult, would not expect all casters to be able to do this, even though all three of mine can.

Fingering Trogs - easy, I expect most casters to be capable of this, as it requires minimal build specialization and no player skill.

CK Method - easy build-wise, but judging by the piles of casters that have constant orthons with this method, I'm guessing not so easy on the player skill to do effectively.

Which do you think is the most efficient to rec. to the random yahoos?

[smatt]

Which do you think is the most efficient to rec. to the random yahoos?


Tell them to go play WoW :D

[oogly54]

LOL, this is my favourite post so far, for so many reasons. Perhaps my sarcasm was too subtle for you, let my try one last time, though I doubt it will do any good.

This game has such a great variety of races, classes, feats and enhancements that the number of permutations of these is staggering. (I'm sure that someone with better math skills than I can figure out just how many) To look at all of these options and say this "combination is the only one that supports walking around fingering trogs, so all other builds are gimp" is laughable. That Samhadi has run with people who were lacking in either skill or experience which cause him some frustration is understandable. To then say "reroll your character like this and that will make you usefull" is absurd.

There are so many different paths to explore, and while some of the combinations are better than others if obvious ways, there are plenty of builds that excell in one area where another is lacking. There is no one single build that is the best one for every scenario in the game, though there are some which are the best in a great many, which is why they become common.

The fact that you insist that there is only ONE right way do do anything hints to me that you are inflexible, and lack tactical play. If the variables in your party make-up aren't just right you struggle......your Kung-Fu is weak, my friend.

Reading and understanding FTW. Please show me and others where I have stated there is ONLY ONE way to defeat the shroud. Because I have NEVER said that.

All the methods described throughout this thread are viable options. Some are easier than others, some are faster than others. FOD is fast AND easy, which is the point Samadhi was trying to make and I agreed with. Neither of us state you will fail if you do not do this. Any unskilled group of yahoos can defeat shroud part 1, that isnt the point.

If you are a caster and can not FOD the trogs, which are **** easy to FOD, then you have issues.

[oogly54]

You use vorpals on trogs? :)

I dont care if you Vorp, DPS, WOE, WOP, whatever, just be on the same page with everyone.

[Zippo]

Whoooo I'm so glad there's someone there to tell me exactly how I should run my caster (even though he isnt quite shroud ready atm cause quite frankly im a melee kind of guy). Maybe the OP could run for the socialist cabinet because I'm sure they could use a hand telling others exactly how they should do it.

[Samadhi]

Tell them to go play WoW :D

ROFL good answer

[smatt]

I dont care if you Vorp, DPS, WOE, WOP, whatever, just be on the same page with everyone.

BINGO...... Same page for the win..... :D

[~Glouscester]

If you buff the party in part 1 (granted, they don't need the buffs for it but it does help a bit) you expend less sp going into part 2 (since they are already buffed) and less time buffing up the group before you take down the 4 red named mobs. I just hit the few people who shrine before I shrine, then pop into part 2.

It takes me about 1 minute to teleport to the hole, down a sp drink, teleport back to meridia, and re-enter the Shroud right about the time the group would enjoy cc from dragging the mobs back to the center. All the caster needs to do before recalling is tell the group to go ahead and start without them.

Why does the party think they have to wait for the arcane to recall?

[chester99]

Player A is an excellent, creative individual with unique and very successful builds

Player B fails 1/3 the shrouds they run.

Gonna go with player A.

I'll have you know that my failure rate is closer to 50%. And that I blame .... everyone else.

[Demonfire]

Thread like these are too numerous these days. It's only a point of view and i could not care less.

What it really shows is that because of Turbine's absolute lack of developpement and new content deprevation we are getting close to the point where all the vets are "burned out and overcooked" due to extreme repetitions and boresome grinding! Not even enjoying this great game anymore but seeing it as a jobe to be done! Plus add on top of that the fact that the more you play with the same group of people on regular basis, the more you develop the false sense that there is no better options then yours and that only you really understood the game!

Myself included, we should all take a break (or at least take a step back down from our own pedestal) until mod 9/unlimited and tumbs up to those who already did!

[oogly54]

I pug 90% of the time, not because I don't have a great guild, but I LIKE to pug. I like sitting back and listening to all the different ways people do things. I run with the best guilds in the game: RG, Katet, THACO, Vegas etc. etc. and I am part of Sabbat. Running with a lot of different people from a lot of quality guilds give you the insight of how to do things well.

What is always funny to me is how most of the group leaders think there method is THE BEST method, but for someone who sees many different methods, most are mistaken. When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive and thinks, "I know what I am doing, I dont need your opinion." When it comes to an easy quest like shroud part one, you are correct. You do not NEED a better method, but why not try it? The more methods you are open to, the more methods you see work, the better method you will have at the end of the day.

Samadhi is being accused of being closed minded when actually becasue he has always been the opposite he has tried every method and figured out which works best. That trial and error is being given to "you" for free. Take it.

[Delt]

Samahdi is being accused of being closed minded when actually becasue he has always been the opposite he has tried every method and figured out which works best. That trial and error is being given to "you" for free. Take it.

"Finger trogs in part 1!"

Another innovative and original strat brought to us from the uber folks of Ghallandra...

*snickers*

[bartcom2000]

I like:


Pickles
bran muffins
long hair (in pony tails)
short walks on the beach
electrode clamps
rice
broth
hair gel
and twigs small enough to fit up my nose

[smatt]

I like:


Pickles
bran muffins
long hair (in pony tails)
short walks on the beach
electrode clamps
rice
broth
hair gel
and twigs small enough to fit up my nose



In that exact order????? Are you nuts???? :D

[bartcom2000]

In that exact order????? Are you nuts???? :D

no...as I have a rather passive aggressive disdane for nuts. I could be "koo koo" though. I do like "Koo Koo"......

[macros123]

I pug 90% of the time, not because I don't have a great guild, but I LIKE to pug. I like sitting back and listening to all the different ways people do things. I run with the best guilds in the game: RG, Katet, THACO, Vegas etc. etc. and I am part of Sabbat. Running with a lot of different people from a lot of quality guilds give you the insight of how to do things well.

What is always funny to me is how most of the group leaders think there method is THE BEST method, but for someone who sees many different methods, most are mistaken. When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive and thinks, "I know what I am doing, I dont need your opinion." When it comes to an easy quest like shroud part one, you are correct. You do not NEED a better method, but why not try it? The more methods you are open to, the more methods you see work, the better method you will have at the end of the day.

Samadhi is being accused of being closed minded when actually becasue he has always been the opposite he has tried every method and figured out which works best. That trial and error is being given to "you" for free. Take it.


/sigh

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

This thread confuses me, what am I supposed to do again?

[KoboldKiller]

This thread confuses me, what am I supposed to do again?


Apparently, what everybody else tells you to do.

[Comfortably]

On my casters, I enjoy FTS a Trog in a corner and laugh as the rest of the group panics trying to find him.

[Andora]

Good thing I am an Alaskan women. I have hip waders to get past the deep river of testosterone flowing in this thread. I have gleaned some great information that I will use when my wizard Nikiski gets flagged for the shroud. This is not a raid I have ran often so all information that will make it smoother is good.

An FYI, we casual players do read the forums to try not to muck up the sacred runs. So thank you Samadhi.

[bartcom2000]

oh I cant wait till I am able to give negative reputation..........:p:rolleyes::D

[Comfortably]

oh I cant wait till I am able to give negative reputation..........:p:rolleyes::D

That'll be...never.

[Loden]

I pug 90% of the time, not because I don't have a great guild, but I LIKE to pug. I like sitting back and listening to all the different ways people do things. I run with the best guilds in the game: RG, Katet, THACO, Vegas etc. etc. and I am part of Sabbat. Running with a lot of different people from a lot of quality guilds give you the insight of how to do things well.

What is always funny to me is how most of the group leaders think there method is THE BEST method, but for someone who sees many different methods, most are mistaken. When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive and thinks, "I know what I am doing, I dont need your opinion." When it comes to an easy quest like shroud part one, you are correct. You do not NEED a better method, but why not try it? The more methods you are open to, the more methods you see work, the better method you will have at the end of the day.

Samadhi is being accused of being closed minded when actually becasue he has always been the opposite he has tried every method and figured out which works best. That trial and error is being given to "you" for free. Take it.

ummmmm .... I guess you missed the OP's original post... here... let me refresh your memory a bit.


Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

The OP is NOT suggesting another way !!! "When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive" ... ummmm ... I could care less about his method or doing it or the so called "right way" of doing things. I care that he is TELLING me how to play !! He is NOT suggesting !!! End of story !!! The OP says "All this shows is that you are clueless". That is why ppl are flaming him. It has nothing to do with his ideas !! He is TELLING ppl how to play the game !!! Pls stop telling ppl how to play the game !! Suggestion is the sign of a good leader.

[DragoonPenguin]

45sp/finger or 35 and dance in a 3 minute+ cloudkill that kills multiple trogs. the op is flat out wrong. there is no question that fod is a waste of sp, and the goddamn trogs do not have the con to last long even in an unheightened cloud. i am a fan of fingering 1 trog - the caster. cook the rest and you save so much sp (wizards dont have the sp to finger every trog the melees are too lazy to kill)

[Jondallar]

The OP is NOT suggesting another way !!! "When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive" ... ummmm ... I could care less about his method or doing it or the so called "right way" of doing things. I care that he is TELLING me how to play !! He is NOT suggesting !!! End of story !!! The OP says "All this shows is that you are clueless". That is why ppl are flaming him. It has nothing to do with his ideas !! He is TELLING ppl how to play the game !!! Pls stop telling ppl how to play the game !! Suggestion is the sign of a good leader.

in my estimation 95% of players not only should be told how to play, but need to be told how to play. when people stop sucking and doing things that waste time people like the op will cease to make these threads

[Spisey]

in my estimation 95% of players not only should be told how to play, but need to be told how to play. when people stop sucking and doing things that waste time people like the op will cease to make these threads

dammit J$ Always quotable... :p

/waits for high enough faction to get Jon his neg points! :eek::rolleyes:

[Loden]

in my estimation 95% of players not only should be told how to play, but need to be told how to play. when people stop sucking and doing things that waste time people like the op will cease to make these threads

lol ... 95% ? hahahahhaa .. I am seriously laughing ... thx

[Samadhi]

45sp/finger or 35 and dance in a 3 minute+ cloudkill that kills multiple trogs. the op is flat out wrong. there is no question that fod is a waste of sp, and the goddamn trogs do not have the con to last long even in an unheightened cloud. i am a fan of fingering 1 trog - the caster. cook the rest and you save so much sp (wizards dont have the sp to finger every trog the melees are too lazy to kill)


A wizard can have enough mana points, fact.

A sorcerer sure as hell BETTER have enough mana.

Most pug raids I see go with two casters. If TWO casters isn't enough mana to finger all the trogs, then both should be rerolling - yes?

Your whole argument is completely moot. Who CARES about mana - mana is not the issue. Speed is. Please reread this thread before reposting foolishness - all of these issues have already been addressed. Thanks for stopping in.

[SimVerg]

There are a minimum of 45 trogs. That's 2025 sp, without casting a single other spell, having a trog save, having a set respawn, etc. I don't have wizards but I'm pretty sure they don't have 2100sp.

[Jondallar]

There are a minimum of 45 trogs. That's 2025 sp, without casting a single other spell, having a trog save, having a set respawn, etc. I don't have wizards but I'm pretty sure they don't have 2100sp.

there are a minimum of 7 melee in a shroud (allowing for 3 clerics and 2 arcane casters) The melee have been known to kill the occasional mob enroute to the next portal. With 3 clerics 2 if not all 3 can be casting destruction or slay living and still keep the party healed that adds a conservative 2000 (1000 each slayer cleric) sp to the trash mob pool along with 1500 each if you have 2 wizards for a total of 5000 sp to kill 35-40 trash mobs ... get 'er done stop going so slowly.

Optimal Shroud group on Normal - 1 kick ass high sp cleric (1700ish sp), 1 Sorc 2400 ish, 1 Warchanter, 9 melee

Usual safe bet Shroud 2 cleric, 1 caster, 1 bard, 8 Melee

[DragoonPenguin]

sorry

[SimVerg]

there are a minimum of 7 melee in a shroud (allowing for 3 clerics and 2 arcane casters) The melee have been known to kill the occasional mob enroute to the next portal. With 3 clerics 2 if not all 3 can be casting destruction or slay living and still keep the party healed that adds a conservative 2000 (1000 each slayer cleric) sp to the trash mob pool along with 1500 each if you have 2 wizards for a total of 5000 sp to kill 35-40 trash mobs ... get 'er done stop going so slowly.

Optimal Shroud group on Normal - 1 kick ass high sp cleric (1700ish sp), 1 Sorc 2400 ish, 1 Warchanter, 9 melee

Usual safe bet Shroud 2 cleric, 1 caster, 1 bard, 8 Melee

Depends on what you're optimizing but remember the reason casters are supposed to be FoD'ing instead of using other methods is that it's faster(allowing them to get back to meleeing). If your melees are not beating on portals to kill trogs it could add a few seconds to your run! Best avoid that(or just do what works).

[Jondallar]

Depends on what you're optimizing but remember the reason casters are supposed to be FoD'ing instead of using other methods is that it's faster(allowing them to get back to meleeing). If your melees are not beating on portals to kill trogs it could add a few seconds to your run! Best avoid that(or just do what works).

i optomize for raid completion not single parts. melee lose maybe 1 complete attack sequence in killing a trog on the way to the next portal. its all about pattern, and as stated b4 every pug shroud on ghallanda i have been in doesnt do the portals in the most optimal pattern, spawning the least mobs. get the pugs doing that right then talk to me about efficient mana use

[smatt]

I'm sure Samahdi will correct me if I'm worng here.... But i thinkw hat he's realyl trying to say is... Casters as well as the enitre party should be doing somethign USEFUL, something that makes the quest go faster instead of slower, not mana wasting casting tactics that do nothing to expedite the quest. Or standing there staring at the portal thinking I killed the trogs on THIS portal I'm done now, I don't need to hit the portal, I don't need to move ahead and take care of the mobs at the next portal.

In other be useful :D

To be honest most of the runs we do..... The trogs who cares they get taken out as well go it's kind of a free for all some casters go ahead some don't.... It gets done, no records broken, but we reallly don't care MOST of the time if it takes 30 min or 40 minutes.... It's cool however people want to do it.... But don't join a group that want's to get it done and done fast and doddle, both hands on the keyboard or controlled please, leave those other things for later on your own time... ;)

P.S. You guys see that frigan 13 min and change Shroud on Sarlona..... Sick, just sick :eek:

[DragoonPenguin]

a Wizard Can Have Enough Mana Points, Fact.



this is really the issue here. they cant.

[smatt]

i optomize for raid completion not single parts. melee lose maybe 1 complete attack sequence in killing a trog on the way to the next portal. its all about pattern, and as stated b4 every pug shroud on ghallanda i have been in doesnt do the portals in the most optimal pattern, spawning the least mobs. get the pugs doing that right then talk to me about efficient mana use


You impress me..... Not really but you seemed to want a stroke so there you go :D

I do get what you're sayiing...... But some, er most people are lazy and don't care :eek:

Who the frick cares about optimal... Well maybe some anal retentive people do if they're going for a speed run.... Seems Sarlona has you smoked on those though.... So much for the highest horse on the block heh..... :p

[DragoonPenguin]

rudeness gone

[Comfortably]

This is an awesome thread, and I had nothing to do with it! :eek:

[Jondallar]

You impress me..... Not really but you seemed to want a stroke so there you go :D

I do get what you're sayiing...... But some, er most people are lazy and don't care :eek:

Who the frick cares about optimal... Well maybe some anal retentive people do if they're going for a speed run.... Seems Sarlona has you smoked on those though.... So much for the highest horse on the block heh..... :p

nope, not looking for a stroke... if i was i would just call up your mom.;)

i dont need to optimize because i dont pug often. generally my guild runs with whomever is off timer. my words were for pugs who need every edge they can get, and also for those who slow things down with unnecessary "tactical" play styles

[cpito]

the melees are too lazy to kill

Hey now, while I do agree with ya there Clam, I have to take this little phrase up with you! After hearing certain guildies repeatedly say "just IGNORE the trash mobs and beat on the portals" enough times, some of us actually ignore the trash mobs and just beat on the portals :p

[bartcom2000]

Hey now, while I do agree with ya there Clam, I have to take this little phrase up with you! After hearing certain guildies repeatedly say "just IGNORE the trash mobs and beat on the portals" enough times, some of us actually ignore the trash mobs and just beat on the portals :p

/signed

that is the common method i see on thelanis (not to be confused w/ New xoriat b/c NX exists only in the minds of the deluted)

[smatt]

I heard fingering trogs contributes to global warming :eek:


:D

[Jondallar]

I heard fingering trogs contributes to global warming :eek:


:D

are u saying your mom is a trog and a cause of global warming?:eek:
if thats true please tell her to stop booty calling me;)

[smatt]

are u saying your mom is a trog and a cause of global warming?:eek:
if thats true please tell her to stop booty calling me;)

Hey she's horny likes young bucks and heard you needed some training .... I'm not the boss of her :D

[Jondallar]

Hey she's horny likes young bucks and heard you needed some training .... I'm not the boss of her :D

touche:D

[bartcom2000]

edited....

[oogly54]

This is an awesome thread, and I had nothing to do with it! :eek:

That was the first post of yours I could actually agree with in about 500 posts. It almost made me want to give your some rep points, almost. :D

[oogly54]

ummmmm .... I guess you missed the OP's original post... here... let me refresh your memory a bit.



The OP is NOT suggesting another way !!! "When someone with the knowledge that Samadhi has for the game tries to help people out and explain a better method everyone goes defensive" ... ummmm ... I could care less about his method or doing it or the so called "right way" of doing things. I care that he is TELLING me how to play !! He is NOT suggesting !!! End of story !!! The OP says "All this shows is that you are clueless". That is why ppl are flaming him. It has nothing to do with his ideas !! He is TELLING ppl how to play the game !!! Pls stop telling ppl how to play the game !! Suggestion is the sign of a good leader.

So I am a better leader than Samadhi? :p

Maybe you are just too sensitive or Samadhi is not sensitive enought. Sam, you need to go to sensitivity training. Respect and responsibility FTW!

[Comfortably]

That was the first post of yours I could actually agree with in about 500 posts. It almost made me want to give your some rep points, almost. :D

Bah, I'll try harder next time! :D

[lunaticcat]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

You ever have a cat come at you and knock you down and can't get up? FoD isn't the miracle cure, even great casters can get a bad roll. Web can save your hide so let the casters do thier job.....

[Comfortably]

Attempt2 for getting rep points from Oogly;


Fact; Oogly is awesome.(Unless he is on his bard) :D:D:D

[FluffyCalico]

You ever have a cat come at you and knock you down and can't get up? FoD isn't the miracle cure, even great casters can get a bad roll. Web can save your hide so let the casters do thier job.....

Trogs dont hit for much. You could just stand there and cast it again. Or you could back up so it never reachs you and finger it. Or jump ect. If a trog kills you because you rolled a 1 well lets not go there. As for cats, the only way you ever get one is if you are slacking on trash to start with.

[oogly54]

Attempt2 for getting rep points from Oogly;


Fact; Oogly is awesome.(Unless he is on his bard) :D:D:D

I am a sucker for a brown noser! But the bard comment killed you, and after my bard helped you with the elite hound last night!:D

[Comfortably]

I am a sucker for a brown noser! But the bard comment killed you, and after my bard helped you with the elite hound last night!:D

hehehehe! :p

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

If your caster can't survive a cat you may want to reroll and invest in some hp?

[smatt]

You ever have a cat come at you and knock you down and can't get up? FoD isn't the miracle cure, even great casters can get a bad roll. Web can save your hide so let the casters do thier job.....


Balance FTW.... Casters make good beaters.....

[Venar]

I suggest using protection for any fingering.

http://images.allegrocentral.com/C4/74/8ab281020bb66dff010bb67101444693-PRODUCT-BIG_IMAGE.jpg

[ChaelaAnne]

I suggest using protection for any fingering.

http://images.allegrocentral.com/C4/74/8ab281020bb66dff010bb67101444693-PRODUCT-BIG_IMAGE.jpg

This made me roflmao all over.

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

This made me roflmao all over.

That's kinda weird... you may wanna get that checked out

[Toots]

"Arguing that my presentation was not PC enough is irrelevant to the point of view being asserted."

It may have nothing to do with the actual issue, but koboldkiller (waaay back on another page) was absolutely right in his critique of your presentation. Anyone who starts a thread with "Do what I say IN CAPS or you're an idiot," will trigger my ignore function with lightning speed. I can get the same advice from someone willing to accept that regardless of "how to play the game flawlessly" there are real people behind those characters on your screen. And they don't generally like being insulted.

That said, when I bring my sorc on a Shroud run I'll run ahead a couple portals and finger the trogs - and depending on how fast they're going down, I may throw down a heightened web in front to catch any who spawn while they're beating on that one. It's a lot easier than chasing them around if they do spawn. Sometimes I'll even double back to finger more (like I said, it all depends on the dps) Clerics can destruct them just as easily as a sorc can finger them too. Let's face it, there's not a lot of healing necessary in part one so the usual two clerics can use up those spell points nailing the trash so the sorc doesn't have to double back to kill more. The sorc's spell points aren't limitless and drinking a pot for part one is out of the question :)

[Jondallar]

". The sorc's spell points aren't limitless and drinking a pot for part one is out of the question :)

who said anything about drinking a pot? if your sorc runs out of sp, you actually get a personal win for part 1 b/c the melee sux for not finishing the portals sooner and the clerics have to continue to destruct, while u get to go afk and get a snack and cool/warm drink waiting for the barrier to drop:D

[macros123]

who said anything about drinking a pot? if your sorc runs out of sp, you actually get a personal win for part 1 b/c the melee sux for not finishing the portals sooner and the clerics have to continue to destruct, while u get to go afk and get a snack and cool/warm drink waiting for the barrier to drop:D


So, using this clever piece of logic, one that does not have the spell pen feats burns out his mana on the sixth portal, he is in fact that much BETTER than one who makes it to the eighth. He has completed his share of the work in less time than the other, and can then go afk for his snack at the halfway point, while the other 11 members do the other half of part one. Excellent viewpiont.......most excellent.

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

I try to burn my mana as fast as possible just out of fun

[Jondallar]

So, using this clever piece of logic, one that does not have the spell pen feats burns out his mana on the sixth portal, he is in fact that much BETTER than one who makes it to the eighth. He has completed his share of the work in less time than the other, and can then go afk for his snack at the halfway point, while the other 11 members do the other half of part one. Excellent viewpiont.......most excellent.

now u r getting it.

i can almost invite u into a shroud.

sadly i do not have a ghallandan caster but if u come to argo i could show you the effectiveness of this tactical form of play. also as stated in an earlier post of mine most of my caster mana goes on self haste, grease, sleetstorm and globe of invulnerability. anything else besides maybe self jump, rage, blur and displacement is simply wasted mana

[Jondallar]

I try to burn my mana as fast as possible just out of fun

/invited

[Venar]

It is also important, when part 1 begins, to place a few AoE crowd control to clearly point out the area in which the melee must NOT fight, but stand right IN FRONT, away from the benefits.

[macros123]

now u r getting it.

i can almost invite u into a shroud.

sadly i do not have a ghallandan caster but if u come to argo i could show you the effectiveness of this tactical form of play. also as stated in an earlier post of mine most of my caster mana goes on self haste, grease, sleetstorm and globe of invulnerability. anything else besides maybe self jump, rage, blur and displacement is simply wasted mana

I happen to be from Argo, myself. Look me up, I could use some entertainment :)
Although to be fair, this thread has been great so far.

[Jondallar]

I happen to be from Argo, myself. Look me up, I could use some entertainment :)
Although to be fair, this thread has been great so far.

Any Ransacked raid that has "Phall" in it is an experience

[macros123]

Any Ransacked raid that has "Phall" in it is an experience

I used to run with Ransacked plenty. Frenchie taught me everything I know about the Shroud, and I run it for my own guild now.

[Kistilan]

If you're gonna tell your Caster how to play his spells, at least tell him to bring Greater Teleport to every Pillar when the melees are beating it senselessly. They may want to GTFO before part 2 goes pear shaped. Sometimes it's just nice to offer it right after a group haste.

DDoor could also work if you target the pillar.

[Leyoni]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

So, I finally completed the prereqs and am ready to run my first Shroud on Leyoni. I have no clue what I should do because I only ever go into the Shroud with Cratesmasher or Therindal (both melee builds). So, what is it I should do, where should I be when I do it and why should I do whatever it is that I'm supposed to be doing?

I get fingering trogs in part 1. I need to know if I need lubricant and where they are so that the fingering can commence. And, can I pike the rest of the quest once I've fingered them? Or, do I need to clean up and do something else later on?

Thx,

:D

[Leyoni]

It is also important, when part 1 begins, to place a few AoE crowd control to clearly point out the area in which the melee must NOT fight, but stand right IN FRONT, away from the benefits.

See, I knew this was standard procedure because that's how we always do it when I'm playing Cratesmasher or Therindal. I never could figure out why the casters put out all that fog. It just makes my machine lag and interferes with killing stuff. I have to move out of it just so I can swing my weapons. I always figured that's what the others were doing too.

Wouldn't it make more sense for me to just turn myself invisible and stand back until a trog shows, then sneak up and finger him?

Thx

:D

[Leyoni]

Sorry, one more question. How much penetration do I need for the fingering to be effective?

Thx

:D

[Jondallar]

Sorry, one more question. How much penetration do I need for the fingering to be effective?

Thx

:D

/invited

[Kistilan]

Sorry, one more question. How much penetration do I need for the fingering to be effective?

Thx

:D

That... is so dirty....

[Aussieee]

That... is
Go away;)

[Leyoni]

Well, I'm just asking because I have greater penetration and even three enhancements to make it more effective. But I only have a size 7 item and I've heard that might not be enough. I was in the marketplace chatting it up earlier and someone mentioned that they had just picked up a size 8.

Should I be concerned?

Thx

:D

[Jondallar]

Well, I'm just asking because I have greater penetration and even three enhancements to make it more effective. But I only have a size 7 item and I've heard that might not be enough. I was in the marketplace chatting it up earlier and someone mentioned that they had just picked up a size 8.

Should I be concerned?

Thx

:D

heresay and lies ... people now know u r exaggerating because greater penetration is only available in a 6 - where one does not penetrate with a bigger length of range, but rather the girth of the penetration is wider... often leading to a more satisfying experience

[Venar]

You can always Grease them first, and Finger them after.

[Toots]

It is also important, when part 1 begins, to place a few AoE crowd control to clearly point out the area in which the melee must NOT fight, but stand right IN FRONT, away from the benefits.

LOL! Exactly. When I put web down in the beginning to snare the trogs, I will immediately proclaim, "Please, DO NOT fight within the confines of any crowd control. It is merely there for decoration and to make it look like I'm doing something."

[Jondallar]

LOL! Exactly. When I put web down in the beginning to snare the trogs, I will immediately proclaim, "Please, DO NOT fight within the confines of any crowd control. It is merely there for decoration and to make it look like I'm doing something."

if web worked on Players this would be acceptable, as it doesnt it is not:eek:

[smatt]

LOL! Exactly. When I put web down in the beginning to snare the trogs, I will immediately proclaim, "Please, DO NOT fight within the confines of any crowd control. It is merely there for decoration and to make it look like I'm doing something."


I have a macro that makes my toon jump around and randomly swing...... That way I can watch porn while I pike .....

[Jondallar]

I have a macro that makes my toon jump around and randomly swing...... That way I can watch porn while I pike .....

i thought u and Gunga never got on that well, and yet he gave you his macro?!!!!!:eek::eek:;)

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

You can always Grease them first, and Finger them after.

Awesome.. my new tactic

[Leyoni]

heresay and lies ... people now know u r exaggerating because greater penetration is only available in a 6 - where one does not penetrate with a bigger length of range, but rather the girth of the penetration is wider... often leading to a more satisfying experience

Hmmm, well I have achieved the remarkable feat of greater penetration but in the past I found it useful to use enhancements for greater effectiveness. Then I found a rather attractive "scepter" which I'm sure simply improves normal penetration. It says something about being a 7 in the instructions.

I had heard wider was better than length but the size 8 seemed really scary.

BTW, thanks Venar for the suggestion concerning grease. I knew lubricants had to be involved.

Thx

:D

[Venar]

Before any of these, i hope you have a protection item, because you could end up with a little surprise.

[Leyoni]

Before any of these, i hope you have a protection item, because you could end up with a little surprise.

Doh!

Thx

:D

[smatt]

Before any of these, i hope you have a protection item, because you could end up with a little surprise.


Or a big one depending onthe strain :eek:

[Leyoni]

Well, you know all this advice really came in handy a couple days ago when I made my virgin Shroud run on Leyoni. I forgot all about the Grease but wasted time and mana with some Acid Fog. Then I gave those trogs the finger.

Only I guess that wasn't good enough because instead of beating on the portals like good little tanks the group kept turning around and meleeing the trogs & orthons that occassionally popped up.

So, am I a total failure? Was it the lack of Grease, the Acid Fog, or my refusal to cast extended Haste (that wasn't in the instructions but the group kept asking for it -- of course, I was trying to remember all of the words of wisdom from this thread & it all got so confusing....)?

Also, is there some rhyme or reason for how the portals are attacked? Should I know this already so that I go ahead of the party and clear the way first? When I'm on Cratesmasher I just follow the group or, if I get lost, just start beating on whatever portal is closest -- the group usually catches up to me that way....

Thx,

:D

[wamjratl1]

I feel the need to resurrect this thread. Please, read through and look at all of the various responses, some flames, some funny, some wise and based on hard evidence.

The long and short of it is: please kill the mobs in part one quickly and efficiently. We're at a point when running shrouds we generally don't expect a need for too much communication or leadership, but maybe with a certain party makeup it's still needed in some cases.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play their characters, but roles need to be determined. The generally accepted practice is that melees beat down portals and casters insta-kill the trogs, etc... If, as a caster, you would rather throw rays and cones at the portals, I'm cool with that, as I can vorpal the mobs or whatever. It will take us a long time to complete (or not complete...) but I'm fine with trying something different. But communicate to me, please, that you plan on doing something differently than is done by 90% of the server, otherwise I am going to beat on portals and expect casters to handle the mobs.

Also, casting fogs, disco balls, and webs and then NOT killing the mobs that are caught in them (but unstead firing damage at the portals) is not efficient nor will it end in success. If portal DPS is low, (for example, you have 4 casters in the group) it is all the more important to kill the spawning mobs and keep them off the melees therefore allowing time to beat portals and saving the cleric mana. But I would almost think with 4 casters it would be that much easier to control the mobs.

So, please read this thread, or some of it, and consider your approach before heading into the shroud with an unusual group makeup.

Much love to my fellow Ghallandans.

[Anthios888]

I feel the need to resurrect this thread. Please, read through and look at all of the various responses, some flames, some funny, some wise and based on hard evidence.

The long and short of it is: please kill the mobs in part one quickly and efficiently. We're at a point when running shrouds we generally don't expect a need for too much communication or leadership, but maybe with a certain party makeup it's still needed in some cases.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play their characters, but roles need to be determined. The generally accepted practice is that melees beat down portals and casters insta-kill the trogs, etc... If, as a caster, you would rather throw rays and cones at the portals, I'm cool with that, as I can vorpal the mobs or whatever. It will take us a long time to complete (or not complete...) but I'm fine with trying something different. But communicate to me, please, that you plan on doing something differently than is done by 90% of the server, otherwise I am going to beat on portals and expect casters to handle the mobs.

Also, casting fogs, disco balls, and webs and then NOT killing the mobs that are caught in them (but unstead firing damage at the portals) is not efficient nor will it end in success. If portal DPS is low, (for example, you have 4 casters in the group) it is all the more important to kill the spawning mobs and keep them off the melees therefore allowing time to beat portals and saving the cleric mana. But I would almost think with 4 casters it would be that much easier to control the mobs.

So, please read this thread, or some of it, and consider your approach before heading into the shroud with an unusual group makeup.

Much love to my fellow Ghallandans.

Don't tell me what to do!1 I can fail part 1 if i want 2.

[wamjratl1]

Don't tell me what to do!1 I can fail part 1 if i want 2.

I thought you just zoned in to part one and then opened your chests as the trogs etc. had all run back to shavarath and the portals dried up like raisins?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

He's not saying that, he is saying he is tired of failing part 1. His groups are having a hard time in part 1, so he is just giving friendly advice.

It's possible to fail pt 1? Wow, haven't seen that since week 1 of the shroud.

OP, one reason to throw up balls or for clerics to BB is that it brings the nasties to you, its actually kind of handy, they don't just hang out there, they run to their death.

[Sothary]

Part 1 of shroud. FINGER TROGS. Stop wasting time and mana with webs, dancing balls, CK, etc etc. All this shows is that you are clueless. FINGER TROGS. That is all.

Drama queen =)

[Phidius]

I feel the need to resurrect this thread. Please, read through and look at all of the various responses, some flames, some funny, some wise and based on hard evidence.

The long and short of it is: please kill the mobs in part one quickly and efficiently. We're at a point when running shrouds we generally don't expect a need for too much communication or leadership, but maybe with a certain party makeup it's still needed in some cases.
...

I wish we could move this thread to a different forum... I'm afraid there are some casters on Sarlona who didn't read it, and end up using all of their SP in part 1 with only 2 kills to show for it.

[Niclos]

I wish we could move this thread to a different forum... I'm afraid there are some casters on Sarlona who didn't read it, and end up using all of their SP in part 1 with only 2 kills to show for it.

Your so right. Whats worse is 2 of them...

[Thrudh]

It's possible to fail pt 1? Wow, haven't seen that since week 1 of the shroud.

OP, one reason to throw up balls or for clerics to BB is that it brings the nasties to you, its actually kind of handy, they don't just hang out there, they run to their death.


Solid Fog too... I noticed the OP couldn't understand why someone would use Solid Fog... I'm not saying it's a great tactic but it does grab aggro...

[Gratch]

Is there any reason not to wail all 3 trogs at a portal now? One spell? I guess maybe 2 if you want to invis run up to ranger-trog filled groups so they don't get out of Wailing distance.

[rpasell]

Is there any reason not to wail all 3 trogs at a portal now? One spell? I guess maybe 2 if you want to invis run up to ranger-trog filled groups so they don't get out of Wailing distance.

Holy **** Gratch, are you still in game? Nice to see.

[winsom]

According to the OP, I guess I'm a n00b since I don't Finger the trogs any more ! :)

I was shocked to see Nightshayde had 90 kills in the last Shroud. Too bad that killer-wailing doesn't work very well outside of Vale/Shroud, much older quests, or Xendrik explorer areas..

[ninjaeli]

just use dreamspitter + hold monster saves mana and if alot come at you wail of the banshee/web

[Impaqt]

ACtually, Now is the time to start reteaching the Shroud. Many of the players that would carry a Shroud are off in Shavarath doing new content at this point. its a whole new group of Shroudies lately.

[MissErres]

The idea of insta-killing the trogs is because if you keep them to a bare minimum no orthons or portal keepers spawn. I have run several Shrouds using this method and rarely do we see orthons.

To each their own. Play how ya want, just have fun. And remember, if everyone's too quiet, Missy starts singing. :eek:

As for the wider vs. longer debate... why choose? :p:D

[rpasell]

As for the wider vs. longer debate... why choose? :p:D

Have we met?

[Quazi]

If a group requests I recall for sp, I'll drop. 0 interest in taking an hour to do the Shroud.

Wow, you'll drop a group for a group suggesting this? The tavern is right outside. I bet you bail on quests all the time if it isn't going well?

[Just_Aaron]

Guess what? Not everyone has run it 1.34 million times. Experienced players need to give us noobs a frickin break. I haven't done this line before and I am reading a lot of great advice here but leave the condescending attidude at the tavern. Instead of yelling and swearing at the new guys (yes this has happened to me before), slow down and explain how a quest should be done before we set out so we know what to expect.

To the noobs like me:

Speak up and say you don't know the quest and could use some help. Most people I have run into are very nice and willing to give advice in a normal and polite manner. If you find yourself being berated by some jerk find another group!

[Velexia]

- People fail Part 1...?

- Solid Fog on a portal... I'll have to try that sometime... maybe 10 Solid Fogs per portal...

- I like to Feeblemind the Trog Sorcerers, it makes them cute and cuddly.

- I throw dancing balls because otherwise I have too much mana left over... oh, and because they work ~_^

-Oh and to all of those brain-dead afk-autoattacking melees out there. If an Orthon gets held from the Hold Monster spell and doesn't get killed, it's no longer my problem.

[cwfergtx]

I have ran the Shroud on Khyber and Ghallanda with Clerics, WIzards, and as a Tank. You are correct that I see a lot of Mages/Sorcerers wasting mana on flesh to stone, web, and stuff. But I have to adjust my play from Khyber to Ghallanda in that the portals are ran differently and on Ghallanda there is a lot more mobs appearing. Orthans and portal Keepers do not appear unless the Trogs are not taken out fast enough. Also, I have seen clerics just stand back instead of beating on the portals. One cleric can beat on the portal while the other goes with the wizards and kill mobs. My clerics get up there and beats on the portals just like the tanks. Every little bit I do means the portals go down a little quicker.

[_onesimus_]

I find it amusing that people still think they are so much better than others they should tell us how to play.



:rolleyes:

/qft
arrogance is not attractive

[wamjratl1]

Guess what? Not everyone has run it 1.34 million times. Experienced players need to give us noobs a frickin break. I haven't done this line before and I am reading a lot of great advice here but leave the condescending attidude at the tavern. Instead of yelling and swearing at the new guys (yes this has happened to me before), slow down and explain how a quest should be done before we set out so we know what to expect.

To the noobs like me:

Speak up and say you don't know the quest and could use some help. Most people I have run into are very nice and willing to give advice in a normal and polite manner. If you find yourself being berated by some jerk find another group!

A good point. And I have never heard anyone yell at a new person in the shroud. Not saying it hasn't happened, just that I haven't heard it. And even more experienced folks noob out occasionally (i did it myself the other week by cleansing a fountain befroe the puzzle was solved.)

The overarching point in this thread (and, more specifically, in me necroing the thread) is that the trogs need to be killed quickly to keep more from spawing. It deosn't really mean the have to be fingered, or wailed, etc... they just need to die within one minute of spawning.

[Daerius of the Blessed Blades]

- People fail Part 1...?

Failed one the other day. A portal keeper spawned at an already closed portal with no warning. Was banging away at a portal with great DPS, sorcs had taken care of the spawns, etc when we got the 'EPIC SHROUD FAIL, N00B!' pop up warning us that a portal keeper somehow wormed in.

I assume that's a bug and not normal behavior due to player failure, but it happens...

[macros123]

It seems to me that people who think there is only one way to do something rarely have an original thought. Stop limiting yourself and experience new things.