Looking to upgrade my PC on the cheap...help?

[Sirea]

So, being unemployed and using my new-found spare time to play more DDO has taken a toll on my 3-year-old Staples-bought system, and I'm looking to upgrade for as little money as possible but still get decent stuff. I'm most interested in upgrading the RAM and video card.

The System specs for my computer can be found here:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00572524&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

(Please no laughing, I know it's a severely underpowered machine)

Basically it's only got 1 gig RAM ATM (two 512 DDR SDRAM sticks), and it has two empty slots for two more 512 sticks, making 2 GB (it can support 4 GB with 1GB in each slot, but once again going for an improvement, not an optimal situation)

It's also got an ATI Radeon X1300 video card right now (again, no laughing, it's what I could afford at the time), I've been looking at the X1650 and X1800 since they are a slight upgrade and similar in price.

Also, will my Processor (Athlon 64 (S) 3800+ 2.4 GHz) be able to support these upgrades?

I've been on eBay, the prices are crazy low, low enough to where I'm suspicious of the sellers and the quality of their "new in box" goods, and discount sites like Newegg.com...is there any reputable source that you guys would recommend for cheap computer components that'll at least tide me over until I'm able to afford a new PC altogether?

[Comfortably]

Now I know you don't want advice from me, but being the nice person I am, I'll post anyway. I bought most of the parts for my computer on E bay, never had a problem to date with anything...not that it'll help getting ya a new comp :p

[Big-Dex]

How much money is cheap? What's the budget here?

Dex was here. :cool:

[Comfortably]

Dex was here. :cool:

Now when you say "Dex was here :cool:" do you mean THE Dex?

[Sirea]

How much money is cheap? What's the budget here?

Dex was here. :cool:

Hmmm...let's say $100-$150.

[baylensman]

I was comtemplating the same thing. However by the time I added up new ram better power supply video and what not as well as time and effort i was in the $400 dollar range. I stopped in at the local best buy and they had several systems in that range in the "open box" area. So out the door price for a new system was $437.00 for a Machine with 3 gig ram windows vista seperate video card huge hard drive and AMD tri core processer. So budget is the big deal. If we are talking under $200.00 try ram first IMHO

[moonprophet]

..in all seriousness.....cancel your ddo subscription and use the newfound free time to look for work.

[Comfortably]

..in all seriousness.....cancel your ddo subscription and use the newfound free time to look for work.

That's kinda harsh...

[Sirea]

..in all seriousness.....cancel your ddo subscription and use the newfound free time to look for work.

OK, you seem to imply that I haven't been doing that. Thanks for the advice, though :)

[Donnie]

Newegg. There is absolutely no reason to be suspicious of them.

[Big-Dex]

Hmmm...let's say $100-$150.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but I would say "Suck it up for a few more months" ... tuck away another $300 bucks and find a new discount tower on sale with Windows 7 loaded. You can usually pick them up on sale with rebates for $400-$500 and most ship with 4gig of ram, dual-core procs and with some luck, a decent video card.

Seriously, the upgrades you will make to that machine for that money are not worth it. You won't see a significant increase. The only possible $$$ I see worth it is a better video card that you can put in a new discount tower, but you are rolling a single core processor, splitting your ram over four sticks (which is innefficient and the ram will not be reusable in a new tower). Mind you, even a new video card will be outdated, as the newer stuff is set for PCI Express 2.0 x16, so...

It might not be what you wanted to hear, but I do hope it gives you something to think about. I speak from experience here, having wasted many $$$ upgrading machines that really needed a new job. ;)

Just sayin' ...
Dex was here. :cool:

And COMFY ... I am not sure who THE DEX is, but be sure that this DEX was here. ;)

[Sirea]

I know this is not what you want to hear, but I would say "Suck it up for a few more months" ... tuck away another $300 bucks and find a new discount tower on sale with Windows 7 loaded. You can usually pick them up on sale with rebates for $400-$500 and most ship with 4gig of ram, dual-core procs and with some luck, a decent video card.

Seriously, the upgrades you will make to that machine for that money are not worth it. You won't see a significant increase. The only possible $$$ I see worth it is a better video card that you can put in a new discount tower, but you are rolling a single core processor, splitting your ram over four sticks (which is innefficient and the ram will not be reusable in a new tower). Mind you, even a new video card will be outdated, as the newer stuff is set for PCI Express 2.0 x16, so...

It might not be what you wanted to hear, but I do hope it gives you something to think about. I speak from experience here, having wasted many $$$ upgrading machines that really needed a new job. ;)

Just sayin' ...
Dex was here. :cool:

And COMFY ... I am not sure who THE DEX is, but be sure that this DEX was here. ;)

Heh, thanks for the straightforward advice Dex, I appreciate it :) I know my system's probably on the way out and I've gotten 3 years of usefulness out of it, so I can't complain I guess. I never bought it with the intention of doing a lot of gaming on it, so it's gone above and beyond my expectations. I'm just starting to get those buggy graphics and slower loading and client crashes...so I get the feeling it's on it's last leg and I was just looking to prolong it's life for a bit until I can afford something better.

[Chazzie]

Im not the best at the tech side but from what i can see fron your specs and taking in on how your looking for cheap (not making fun here/Ive walked in them shoes recently) I would for now just boost your vid card i see you have a X16 slot free so i was thinking on a X16 pci express geforce 9400gt. I just put this in my daughters computer three days ago and it was at best buy for $40 on sale and she can play about anywhere in the game now even shroud =) just a thought if your going cheap.....and a good band aid till you save up like Dex mentioned

[Sirea]

Im not the best at the tech side but from what i can see fron your specs and taking in on how your looking for cheap (not making fun here/Ive walked in them shoes recently) I would for now just boost your vid card i see you have a X16 slot free so i was thinking on a X16 pci express geforce 9400gt. I just put this in my daughters computer three days ago and it was at best buy for $40 on sale and she can play about anywhere in the game now even shroud =) just a thought if your going cheap.....and a good band aid till you save up like Dex mentioned

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I was always under the impression that Nvidia hardware was incompatible with the ATI chipset?

[Big-Dex]

Heh, thanks for the straightforward advice Dex, I appreciate it :) I know my system's probably on the way out and I've gotten 3 years of usefulness out of it, so I can't complain I guess. I never bought it with the intention of doing a lot of gaming on it, so it's gone above and beyond my expectations. I'm just starting to get those buggy graphics and slower loading and client crashes...so I get the feeling it's on it's last leg and I was just looking to prolong it's life for a bit until I can afford something better.

I might make this suggestion.

Try a fresh install of the your OS, if you haven't already. It is a lot of work, but you might see a significant difference. Mind you, if you can, do a true clean install. Just the OS. Don't load all the HP junk they put on there, or there old and outdated drivers off of the install disk/partition. I would approach it this way, if you can install the OS by itself.

1) Before doing the anything ... back up all files that you want to keep (don't forget email, favorites, any downloaded program files that you need or any other important files). This is critical!

2) Go to HPs site and download the most current drivers for your system and dump them on a CD or Jump Drive.

3) Do a clean install of your OS wiping the old install out.

4) Install your latest drivers from the files you put on the CD/Jump Drive.

5) Reinstall your software that you use, to include DDO (don't forget your virus protection)

Enjoy your "new" machine.

A few hours worth of work might buy you a few months worth of contentment.

Dex was here. :cool:

BTW - Only do this if you feel like you know what you are doing. I don't want to be responsible for you trashing your system. :D ;)

[Missing_Minds]

Basically it's only got 1 gig RAM ATM (two 512 DDR SDRAM sticks), and it has two empty slots for two more 512 sticks, making 2 GB (it can support 4 GB with 1GB in each slot, but once again going for an improvement, not an optimal situation)

Verify that your machine with its bios will actually be able to handle more than 1 gig.

Some of those store bought ones actually won't handle more than 1 gig of RAM. Happened to my wife's college machine when she wanted to turn gamer. Had to make her a whole new setup.

[Big-Dex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I was always under the impression that Nvidia hardware was incompatible with the ATI chipset?

They are compatible and vice versa. If I am not mistaken, it is only with SLI or X-Fire rigs that you need to be careful.

Mind you, you will still drop a big chunk of your new puter saving on that vid card. It might be cheaper in the long haul to ride it out. I know ... but... just sayin'...

Dex was here. :cool:

[skyking613]

Newegg. There is absolutely no reason to be suspicious of them.


Agreed, They are one of the best sites for computer parts. I would also recommend tigerdirect.com

[Chazzie]

Edit sorry

[ianliam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I was always under the impression that Nvidia hardware was incompatible with the ATI chipset?

i have an AMD chipset and a nvidia 1gb 8600gtx with 4 gigs of pc2-6400 and my wife has same chip with no extras and she gets the same performanceas i do on low settings, so you don't have to go nuts, but at higher end it gets a LITTLE better

[Sirea]

i have an AMD chipset and a nvidia 1gb 8600gtx with 4 gigs of pc2-6400 and my wife has same chip with no extras and she gets the same performanceas i do on low settings, so you don't have to go nuts, but at higher end it gets a LITTLE better


They are compatible and vice versa. If I am not mistaken, it is only with SLI or X-Fire rigs that you need to be careful.

Mind you, you will still drop a big chunk of your new puter saving on that vid card. It might be cheaper in the long haul to ride it out. I know ... but... just sayin'...

Dex was here. :cool:

Ahh, OK, thanks for clearing that up :)


Verify that your machine with its bios will actually be able to handle more than 1 gig.

Some of those store bought ones actually won't handle more than 1 gig of RAM. Happened to my wife's college machine when she wanted to turn gamer. Had to make her a whole new setup.

Also a valid point, thanks. How would I go about checking that?

Also the suggestion from Dex to reinstall the OS...I don't have discs or anything to do that, are the XP discs needed?

[Furbitor]

while you got some good parts in there.. you have a Unsupported ASUS Mobo made for a proprietary company, (hence it may have non-ATX features), which has integrated graphics in its chipset, even if you got a discreet vid board...

You would probably do well to upgrade nearly everything.

First off, yours is working so it has value. Take any parts out and it's value drops to zero. Most processors for AMD are lower than $200 bucks for the latest/greatest, but you'll need a different motherboard to accommodate them. you memory is curently ddr, at 184 pin sticks, upgrading to a new mobo will also allow you to get faster DDR2 memory, I figure about a four-fold increase in memory efficiency due to dual channel, faster speeds, etc. for $30 bucks!

about the only thing that would carry over is the drives, cds, dvd. floppy, case (maybe) and a powersupply (maybe). But most drives are really getting cheaper..so ripping them out of your old system will lose its value.

So I suggest saving money and start from the ground floor. You can build a decent gaming comp for around $500 bucks for the complete tower, but it will not have the latest greatest.

So to make a gaming rig that has horsepower to spare, room to grow, and easy on the wallet, while being 100% atx standard look below at an example:



Here is a rig I built the other day all supplied from Newegg.com:


Order Summary
Qty Product Description Price
Shipped from CA
1 ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD525AWT 525W ATX12V Ver.2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817194035
Standard Return Policy $164.99
1 ASUS EN9800GTX+ DK/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814121284
Standard Return Policy $189.99

1 SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
Item #: N82E16821103203
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $7.49
1 OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2N10662GK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820227178
Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy $31.99
1 ASUS Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E818A3 BULK - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135180
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $18.99
1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116515
Software Return Policy $139.99
1 ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131339
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $188.99
1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.1GHz Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor Model ADV60000DOBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103272
Processors (CPUs) Return Policy $85.99
1 ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black IDE Model DRW-2014L1 OEM - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135162
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $28.99
2 HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 (0A33435) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822145129
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $99.98
($49.99 ea)
Shipped from NJ
1 COOLER MASTER NV 690 NV-690C-KWN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811119157
Standard Return Policy $89.99
Subtotal $1,082.37
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 DAYS $39.93
Order Total $1,122.30

[Big-Dex]

Also the suggestion from Dex to reinstall the OS...I don't have discs or anything to do that, are the XP discs needed?

Yes, you do need the disks to do the OS only.

Sometimes, HP puts their back up on a partition the hard drive. You might see a second hard drive in my computer, which is about 8 GB. It will be your backup partition. If this is the case, you have two options...

1) Just do a fresh intall from the partitition. Go through and remove all HP junk software and other outdated and useless programs, virus protection and junk you don't and won't use. Then put your software back on the system. Remember to back up first.

2) Contact HP and order a set of OS backup disks for that system. If they are still available, they will probably cost you $15-20 + shipping. Then follow the steps above.

Dex was here. :cool:

[Riorik]

Newegg. There is absolutely no reason to be suspicious of them.

Yes...while I don't think Sirea was really being critical of Newegg...Newegg rocks. You can't find *everything* there, but most technie toys are and often it's at or close to the lowest price...can't tell you how many times I've had stuff show up in a couple days...using their bargain or free/lowest tier mail service.

Just generally, upgrading is usually not a good idea for a variety of reasons...things like how age & wear & tear kill computers. Some PSU's might last a decade but some will encounter issues after a few years...combined with the OS which often simply needs to be re-installed every so often. I knew techies that claimed they reinstalled every 6 months.

Keep in mind that your XP based system really can never use 4GB of memory...I'm avoiding the explanation, but you're effectively getting around 3GB maximum. Dual-Channel mode is generally only a marginal improvement (< 5%...often < 2%) so don't use that as a guide for must have performance. Different motherboards may require certain configurations of the memory...it may not like it with 2x512 & 1 or 2 x 1GB in the other two slots. Check the manual.

Here's a newegg link http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052107965%201052407862%20105233070&name=2GB%20-%204GB

That's only for paired up 2x1GB chips on "best rating". Most of the available offerings are in the range of $70. My opinion would be, kicking up to 2GB would be far more significant than adding another pair of DDR SDRAM chips. Something I don't see on your specs is whether the 400 ram speed of (PC-3200) matches your bus speed...a minor point, but relevant. If the bus is only PC-2400 (DDR333) you could adjust your search and pick up 3x1GB of DDR333 for $20 each.

I don't see any power supply (PSU) specs on that link (probably I missed it). One of the common problems from after market upgrade is an underpowered PSU for the mix of hardware. It's good you're at least PCI-Express x16.

This may be a decent option (8600 GTS 256mb) $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130394
You might consider (Radeon HD 3450 512MB) $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121250

I'm more of a fan of the 8600...if you can get an 8800 GTS, go for it, big difference.

All total - if you just wanted to buy 3 sticks of 1GB RAM ($20 each) and the 8600 GTS (50) that's only $110. The question is, is it the right memory and can your system handle the power needs. The answer is probably...but I'd prefer to check before ordering.

Just talking about dual versus single channel memory I pulled this quote from Toms...
"But back to RAM and hard drives. As expected, the performance difference between single channel and dual channel DDR2-800 memory using an up-to-date Core 2 Duo system Compare Prices on Core 2 Duo Processors is little to nil, depending on the benchmark - most tests show differences, but they are really small."

The difference is, this is talking about a type of memory that you are not and can not use on that system and it's not even the same processor...although it was a 2007 review and likely the technology is similar. I'm sort of responding to an earlier post suggesting a few things would improve performance including dual channel mode...in reality, it's the other things that might improve things...the type of memory on a different motherboard with a different chipset play huge roles....far more than the 1-2% you're likely to get from dual channel mode.

[Furbitor]

Yes, you do need the disks to do the OS only.

Sometimes, HP puts their back up on a partition the hard drive. You might see a second hard drive in my computer, which is about 8 GB. It will be your backup partition. If this is the case, you have two options...

1) Just do a fresh intall from the partitition. Go through and remove all HP junk software and other outdated and useless programs, virus protection and junk you don't and won't use. Then put your software back on the system. Remember to back up first.

2) Contact HP and order a set of OS backup disks for that system. If they are still available, they will probably cost you $15-20 + shipping. Then follow the steps above.

Dex was here. :cool:

Yeah, If your lacking the original "system" disks for your HP machine you can go online to HP parts and order a set. I just did a year ago got a windows xp restore/recovery pack of disks that the machine should have and the cost was under $10.00 bucks.

Sadly, the actual XP operating system exists only on one of the SEVEN discs...so after running a complete reinstall I had 6 discs of trial software garbage to delete off the harddrive, and make windows as clean as it can get.

But that is not bad when the alternative is a new copy of xp for $90.00 bucks..

[sda3]

I am going to contradict several people's advice on this board. At this point and time and being unemployed with no option for a new machine for several months there is a lot of benefit you can gain by spending less than $150 on a few component upgrades. If you use your machine primarily for DDO then you would benefit tremendously from a graphics and ram update. You mention that you have 2 empty slots, your computer only supports the original DDR spec ram. You could pick up another 1 gig of pc-3200 ram for less than $40 and a decent graphics card for $100. There are some very good deals on cards that were on the high end 6-12 months ago. You can pick up an Nvidia 9800GT for less than $100 with a decent sale, there are also ATI cards HD 4830 for under $100 and the HD 4850 for about $130. One poster mentioned Newegg.com as a good source. I would agree completely. These cards are all listed as PCI Express 2.0 16x cards, but these cards are PCI express 1.1 compatible also. The change in the spec was mostly for the slot to be able to provide more power through the motherboard rather than an external connector. The bandwith of the 2.0 spec was also increased, but even the high end cards today are hard pressed to actually need more bandwidth than the 1.1 spec can provide. You won't have to worry about that issue in the price range you are looking. I would however, check to make sure your power supply can handle the new graphics card. You will probably want to see it at least 400 watts. I also PMed this to you.

[dameron]

I'd go with the Radeon 3850 ($60 from newegg) and as much ram as your MB will handle for your budget.

If you could wait around a bit you can sometimes find decent combo deals out of newegg. I got the 3850 and 2gb of ram for my sister for like $60 after rebates a few months ago. I'd also avoid the nvidia 8600 since the 3850 beats the pants off it and you can probably find it cheaper.

Make sure you get the GDR3 version of whatever card you get

[sda3]

while you got some good parts in there.. you have a Unsupported ASUS Mobo made for a proprietary company, (hence it may have non-ATX features), which has integrated graphics in its chipset, even if you got a discreet vid board...

You would probably do well to upgrade nearly everything.

First off, yours is working so it has value. Take any parts out and it's value drops to zero. Most processors for AMD are lower than $200 bucks for the latest/greatest, but you'll need a different motherboard to accommodate them. you memory is curently ddr, at 184 pin sticks, upgrading to a new mobo will also allow you to get faster DDR2 memory, I figure about a four-fold increase in memory efficiency due to dual channel, faster speeds, etc. for $30 bucks!

about the only thing that would carry over is the drives, cds, dvd. floppy, case (maybe) and a powersupply (maybe). But most drives are really getting cheaper..so ripping them out of your old system will lose its value.

So I suggest saving money and start from the ground floor. You can build a decent gaming comp for around $500 bucks for the complete tower, but it will not have the latest greatest.

So to make a gaming rig that has horsepower to spare, room to grow, and easy on the wallet, while being 100% atx standard look below at an example:



Here is a rig I built the other day all supplied from Newegg.com:


Order Summary
Qty Product Description Price
Shipped from CA
1 ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD525AWT 525W ATX12V Ver.2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817194035
Standard Return Policy $164.99
1 ASUS EN9800GTX+ DK/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814121284
Standard Return Policy $189.99

1 SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
Item #: N82E16821103203
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $7.49
1 OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2N10662GK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820227178
Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy $31.99
1 ASUS Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E818A3 BULK - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135180
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $18.99
1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116515
Software Return Policy $139.99
1 ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131339
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $188.99
1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.1GHz Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor Model ADV60000DOBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103272
Processors (CPUs) Return Policy $85.99
1 ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black IDE Model DRW-2014L1 OEM - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135162
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $28.99
2 HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 (0A33435) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822145129
Limited 30-Day Return Policy $99.98
($49.99 ea)
Shipped from NJ
1 COOLER MASTER NV 690 NV-690C-KWN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811119157
Standard Return Policy $89.99
Subtotal $1,082.37
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 DAYS $39.93
Order Total $1,122.30

Looks more like prices from months ago. I just built an Core i7 920 Rig with 6 gigs of DDR3 2000 and a ATI HD4890 graphics card for $200 more than your build.

[Sirea]

Thanks for all the advice everyone :)

Another question that has risen out of all this is a power supply..after popping open my tower (man it was dusty in there :p) and peeking around I've only got 300W, so that'll need an upgrade too *sigh*

Also questions about my motherboard, will this need upgrading as well to support some of the suggestions? *sigh* Looks like I might be looking at a bigger project than I anticipated. But I've been poking around Newegg and they seem to have a lot of options and a wide price range, so that's a good thing.

[Riorik]

I just realized when I began looking at your claims about 2.0 cards fitting into 1.1...that you're right. I tend to do my research when I'm buying/building and I haven't done so in a long time.

So I would assume the difference would be a constraint...half the bandwidth from 5.0 to 2.5 (the 1.1 standard). I guess I should look at some tests and see if the newer cards are that much faster that even cutting their throughput in half, they're still faster.

Nice comment and I learned something new.

On the PSU. Here's the issue. As soon as you do this, you're about to become a lot more familiar with your computer than you ever were before...because you have to unplug everything to get it out. This isn't a problem, it's just somewhat daunting if you're worried about doing more damage. In my opinion, it's just something to approach your very first time with caution.

Look carefully at everywhere the PSU is connected to the motherboard - if you're really paranoid, use your phone to take a photo then look at it to be certain you can see the detail. Most likely, there's just two connectors (that long rectangular one and a supplemental 4 pin square) plus one or more to fans (plus the ones to the various drives and even possibly one to your video card). They clip in so nothing has to be forced. Look carefully at the connectors as you do it...no sense bending anything.

Memory tends to be easy but your documentation is likely to tell you to use specific slots if you're not using all 4...the HP website may even be specific about the specific supported brands/speeds of memory (not forums, it's a spec but if you can't find it, it's probably not important)

Bios updates are nearly always available from HP directly -- just type in BIOS and exact spec ID's for the components and usually it'll get you there. You're looking for comments about supporting memory, hard drive maximum sizes, etc. Only do it if you need to...it is something you can do later on.

I'd also check the reviews carefully on newegg if you buy there in terms of support for the 1.1 standard. I haven't checked but it's likely that manufacturer success with working with older standards is sporadic. EVERY card may not perform as well with the older standard. I'd pick through until I found comments from a user talking about doing exactly what you're proposing. I'd also go somewhere like Toms Hardware and look for a speed review of the various Graphics cards...2.0 cards are going to be rated at the bandwidth supported by that slot which is precisely double that of the 1.0 and 1.1 standard. Without further information, I'd guess "halving" their rated top speed is appropriate to do an apples-to-apples comparison.

I think you can buy good memory for $20-35/GB -- 3GB is all you're really going to be able to use and the Video card is going to be a big kicker. I'm actually using a 512mb GTS8600 right now on my E6750 4GB (XP pro) system right now (home build) and I can kick up to the highest graphics settings although it does show a difference in high lag situations. I usually run it on High (although I've read swinging DPS is actually impacted by graphics so I lowered to Medium to experiment). Graphics cards today don't use anywhere near the power of some of the ones just from a few years ago like the 1950PRO (AGP) which needed 500W and one or two connectors directly to the card..

The usual symptom of underpowered would be random reboots during load.

Keep in mind, I'm all for the prior suggestion of a complete wipe and re-install of your operating system too.
The house brands, however, often merely allow replacing the system folder which is close but not quite the same thing. Most of the time, you have to have an actual retail copy of XP...which you can't buy anymore. Buying Vista would slow you down...same hardware, slower speed.

[Hambo]

So, being unemployed and using my new-found spare time to play more DDO has taken a toll on my 3-year-old Staples-bought system, and I'm looking to upgrade for as little money as possible but still get decent stuff. I'm most interested in upgrading the RAM and video card.

The System specs for my computer can be found here:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00572524&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

(Please no laughing, I know it's a severely underpowered machine)

Basically it's only got 1 gig RAM ATM (two 512 DDR SDRAM sticks), and it has two empty slots for two more 512 sticks, making 2 GB (it can support 4 GB with 1GB in each slot, but once again going for an improvement, not an optimal situation)

It's also got an ATI Radeon X1300 video card right now (again, no laughing, it's what I could afford at the time), I've been looking at the X1650 and X1800 since they are a slight upgrade and similar in price.

Also, will my Processor (Athlon 64 (S) 3800+ 2.4 GHz) be able to support these upgrades?

I've been on eBay, the prices are crazy low, low enough to where I'm suspicious of the sellers and the quality of their "new in box" goods, and discount sites like Newegg.com...is there any reputable source that you guys would recommend for cheap computer components that'll at least tide me over until I'm able to afford a new PC altogether?

System looks ok, get at least an additional GB ram (can only use a max of 3GB unless you run 64-bit OS).

Don't know the video (Nvidia user here)... Use someone else's recommendation.

Don't buy on eBay... chances of being taken are too great. I buy all my stuff from "Mwave.com", unless I can get a better price from the local Fry's (seldom). One of their nice features is an on-line record of your purchase receipts... came in handy when I had a power supply dump on my system and take everything out. Which reminds me, do not buy OEM, get the "Boxed" items for the 3 yesr warranty... repairs for the PS fiasco cost me nothing other than the PS, and I got a free upgrade on the CPU from AMD (they didn't have the 4200+ anymore so sent me a 4600+ replacement).

[Sirea]

OK, so from what I've gathered, RAM would be a good, inexpensive place to start. And having 4 sticks of RAM in there isn't going to do me much good, and I can only use 3 GB of it anyway, so what if I just went with two 1GB sticks to replace the two 512 MB sticks? Do I just pop them in and go? Any drivers or software to install, or will the computer just recognize them being there next time I start up? Do I need to go with a certain manufacturer to make sure it's compatible with the rest of my hardware?

[jjflanigan]

I know this is above your price range right now, but to go along with the people saying "save up to get a full system" I have been directing people to a site I used a couple years back that custom builds system and provides a 3 year complete system warranty. Their prices are very nice and their support is wonderful to work with. I quickly specced out a system like the one listed above

The below system specs would cost $670, delivered to your door ($95 less if you just use your existing copy / license for windows).



AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 6000+* (3GHz) AM2 SYS
AMD SOCKET AM2/AM2+/AM3 STANDARD COOLING FAN
Asus M3A76-CM Socket AM2+/ AMD 760G Motherboard
KINGSTON 2GB DDR-2 1066MHZ PC2-8500
Western Digital/SAMSUNG WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA2 7200rpm 16MB Hard Drive
ASUS 20X DVD-RW DUAL LAYER
nVidia GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB DDR3 2DVI/HDCP PCI-Express Video Card
6-CHANNEL DIGITAL SOUND ONBOARD
10/100 ETHERNET ONBOARD
BBC TURBO III MID-ATX CASE
THERMALTAKE 500 WATT PUREPOWER ATX
Microsoft Windows XP Home W/SP3 (CD & LICENSE INCLUDED)

[Thok]

Have you considered removing and reinstalling your operating system? I usually reinstall Windows XP every year and that tends to help performance.

[jjflanigan]

OK, so from what I've gathered, RAM would be a good, inexpensive place to start. And having 4 sticks of RAM in there isn't going to do me much good, and I can only use 3 GB of it anyway, so what if I just went with two 1GB sticks to replace the two 512 MB sticks? Do I just pop them in and go? Any drivers or software to install, or will the computer just recognize them being there next time I start up? Do I need to go with a certain manufacturer to make sure it's compatible with the rest of my hardware?

As long as the motherboard can handle the additional RAM, it is just a "pop them in and go". Some older boards limit the size of ram sticks per slot. You'll also need to make sure the speed and other specs of the ram you get are compatible with your board. Other than that, there's not really anything "special" to do to make them be recognized. I'd suggest staying away from "Super Talent" brand memory as I've had nothing but problems with it.

[sda3]

OK, so from what I've gathered, RAM would be a good, inexpensive place to start. And having 4 sticks of RAM in there isn't going to do me much good, and I can only use 3 GB of it anyway, so what if I just went with two 1GB sticks to replace the two 512 MB sticks? Do I just pop them in and go? Any drivers or software to install, or will the computer just recognize them being there next time I start up? Do I need to go with a certain manufacturer to make sure it's compatible with the rest of my hardware?

It won't matter if you have 4 sticks or 2 sticks. Your computer specs say it can handle 4 gigs of ram, XP will recognize 3. If you buy 2 1gig sticks and put them in with your 2 512mb sticks you will have a total of 3 gigs and everything should still be peachy. The only thing you should make sure of is that you buy the same speed ram. You currently are running pc-3200. I would put the 1gig sticks in alone to start and then try adding the 512s back in. It will more than likely have no problems running all of them together for 3 gigs of ram.

You will probably not notice much of a difference in DDO frame rates with just a ram upgrade, but there should be a slight difference. Your computer overall should be noticeably faster. There are no drivers or software, buy a quality brand, Crucial, corsair, OCZ, Kingston are a good place to start. They all typically have lifetime warrantees.

To really get the DDO performance bump you are looking for you will have to upgrade the graphics, and with the 300 watt power you will have to do the power supply also. You can get something acceptable quite cheap, but as others have said if you are not familiar with computers it can be a challenging task to replace.

As others have stated, an OS reinstall goes a long way to a happy, fast and stable computer. (I do mine about once a year)

[Furbitor]

Thanks for all the advice everyone :)

Another question that has risen out of all this is a power supply..after popping open my tower (man it was dusty in there :p) and peeking around I've only got 300W, so that'll need an upgrade too *sigh*

Also questions about my motherboard, will this need upgrading as well to support some of the suggestions? *sigh* Looks like I might be looking at a bigger project than I anticipated. But I've been poking around Newegg and they seem to have a lot of options and a wide price range, so that's a good thing.

things about mobo's are limitations.. and chipsets. it does no good to purchase a motherboard with a crappy chipset when for $20 bucks more you can get the best performing chipset out there on a decent board.

most top end mobos never cost more than $200 bucks.


Yeah newegg is great for many reasons, the first, great prices for what your looking for, outdated gear is discontinued fairly rapidly, and if you have any problems the replacement rma system is TOPS. they take care of you.

You may not find x part for any cheaper. but you can find many more of them for any amount of money.

[mhorn]

I say go to http://www.PriceWatch.com

I used to work there and did some dev work. it still is the best comparison site.