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ChadMan
06-03-2009, 07:57 PM
does any one have any tips, things to bewair of, or any thing i should put my stats in to.

any help would be loved

thanks
chadman

Viking707
06-03-2009, 08:59 PM
The prerequisites for Way of the Assassin II will take up most of the skill points thru level 12. The few left over I spent on faster sneaking since you have to be in sneak mode for "Assasinate" to work.

Interesting Note: I've had a lot of success assassinating beholders in VoN 2 and 3.

-V

baddax
06-03-2009, 09:04 PM
I believe Int is the Stat modifier for Assasinate. so you will want a decent anmount of Int.

Zaal
06-03-2009, 09:43 PM
What else would your Assassin to be?

For example if you're REALLY wanting solely to focus on an Assassinate, you'd go say, Drow and max your INT to 20 when you roll.

But of course realize that Assassination won't work on End Bosses and you seemingly get to a point in the game where the End Boss is really what matters.

I know I'll prob take a hit on that last statement but, having myself a Drow Rogue Assassin that sports a every high INT, you generally don't build a reputation on Assassinate but instead the DPS you can dish out and how well you stay up.

So, you want an Assassin and what else?

kamimitsu
06-03-2009, 11:42 PM
I wouldn't max INT. Sure it's nice for skill points and Assassinate DC, but as pointed out DPS is generally considered more useful. That pushes me to recommend Halfling, though the difference is pretty small.

Some minor advice:
Skip AssassinI. That is, from Level 6 to 12 go with Mechanic (and guarantee you'll never miss a trap even well above your level) or Acrobat (speedy, jumpy, dodgy) until you are ready for AssassinII. AssassinI is next to useless.

AssassinIII is looking very promising, so if you multiclass (which isn't a great idea on an Assassin in most cases), then don't go more than 2 non-rogue levels.

Faster Sneaking III or better is a very, very good thing. If you can't get to the target easily and quickly, you'll never get your hit in.

D'rin
06-04-2009, 12:29 AM
Would you then go dex based halfling I take it and not worry about str to much?

kamimitsu
06-04-2009, 12:41 AM
Would you then go dex based halfling I take it and not worry about str to much?

D'rin, I'm not sure to whom that question was directed, but my answer is "kinda".

My personal choice would be Dex-based Halfling with 11-13 STR. DEX 15-17. INT 13-15. CON 11-13. WIS 9. CHA whatever is left. All of those can be evened out with Tomes, etc. I generally do everything I can to NOT spend more than 2 points for any ability. Level ups in DEX (or alternately DEX/INT or DEX/STR)

My reasoning:
STR is necessary for carrying capacity (and DMG to a point on a Sneak Attack Dex build), so you can't skimp completely.
DEX is awesome for your To-Hit and AC, but I find that unless you are really going for AC, much over 30 end game is overkill as your To-Hit during Sneak Attack will be very very high.
CON is always a good thing, but aggro management can make up for somewhat low HP. 300 at current end-game is a good marker, and you can do it with that range.
WIS for Spot and Will Saves. Your will saves will blow, so you can go with Slippery Mind or Force of Personality. Spot is not incredibly important if you keep you skill up and get an item (for the few cases where it is necessary).
CHA for UMD, Diplo. Both of these are your friend. If you go very high CHA then Force of Personality is the way to go. I'd opt for somewhat lower CHA (12 ish?)

baddax
06-04-2009, 03:40 AM
D'rin, I'm not sure to whom that question was directed, but my answer is "kinda".

My personal choice would be Dex-based Halfling with 11-13 STR. DEX 15-17. INT 13-15. CON 11-13. WIS 9. CHA whatever is left. All of those can be evened out with Tomes, etc. I generally do everything I can to NOT spend more than 2 points for any ability. Level ups in DEX (or alternately DEX/INT or DEX/STR)

My reasoning:
STR is necessary for carrying capacity (and DMG to a point on a Sneak Attack Dex build), so you can't skimp completely.
DEX is awesome for your To-Hit and AC, but I find that unless you are really going for AC, much over 30 end game is overkill as your To-Hit during Sneak Attack will be very very high. CON is always a good thing, but aggro management can make up for somewhat low HP. 300 at current end-game is a good marker, and you can do it with that range.
WIS for Spot and Will Saves. Your will saves will blow, so you can go with Slippery Mind or Force of Personality. Spot is not incredibly important if you keep you skill up and get an item (for the few cases where it is necessary).
CHA for UMD, Diplo. Both of these are your friend. If you go very high CHA then Force of Personality is the way to go. I'd opt for somewhat lower CHA (12 ish?)


Very good point.

QuantumFX
06-04-2009, 04:22 AM
The biggest piece of advice I can give you about playing an assassin is:

“Learn how to setup and use your hotkeys”

Let me help you in case you didn't understand the first time:

“Learn how to setup and use your hotkeys”

Yes. It really is that important.

You have a very powerful insta kill ability that depends on you being able to both go into sneak mode and being able to activate without using your mouse.

The question of INT on an assassin: If you're spending 2 or more build points at character creation to bump your INT then your INT is too high. You also do not need to put level ups into your INT. 50-60% of your Assassinate DC will come from your rogue levels alone. If you want to buff your assassinate DC at high levels Just make a Radience II rapier that looks like +6 INT(Fire), Good Burst(Positive), +2 Exceptional INT(Fire)

kamimitsu
06-04-2009, 04:56 AM
You have a very powerful insta kill ability that depends on you being able to both go into sneak mode and being able to activate without using your mouse.


I guess I'm weird, then. :) I actually have them on my mouse buttons: one for sneak, one for assassinate. I always have my side buttons set to my 2 main combat abilities (or spells). I highly recommend a mouse with programmable side buttons!

Feylina
06-04-2009, 05:05 AM
my first assasin build was a max int build and i love her.

i went
8 str
14 con
18 dex
18 int
8 wis
8 char

i took added 3 to int for ability ups and plan on putting the last 2 into dex.
i have no points into skill boosts or anything atm and haven't missed a spot and my dd is 55 on the dice. that frees up my ap that's left over from assasin to put into more damage and +att for sneak.

i think i would have built her differently however if i were to do it over. i think i would tempest the build. i'd keep the stat points about the same, i think trying to str base the build would spread it too thin.
not liking the look of the assasin III and the capstone is ****. as it stands i will take this toon to 19 / 1 rogue something. if not just keep pure for hope of a better capstone.

Varr
06-04-2009, 06:51 AM
Rogues are hard pressed to spend more than one for one at creation. 14 int is plenty and to can still have some con/str. Two weapon chain is the second most important thing a rogue needs. The first is agro management. Assassinate is a fun toy and solo tool, but your going to be a critter lawn mower anyway with good agro management. Max subtile backstabber.

Psyk0sisS
06-04-2009, 07:04 AM
Subtle BS and when you can..GET THE THARNES SET! :) I currently have -40% BS agro, its quite nice, especially in VoD where I can go all out w/o pulling agro.

...got me thinking just now, wonder if (brain phart, too early) the rogue wpn from Reaver stacks...they suck anyway but got me thinking.

Lymnus
06-04-2009, 08:24 AM
Treason should stack. I've heard from rogues that it does.

QuantumFX
06-04-2009, 10:39 AM
I guess I'm weird, then. :) I actually have them on my mouse buttons: one for sneak, one for assassinate. I always have my side buttons set to my 2 main combat abilities (or spells). I highly recommend a mouse with programmable side buttons!

My advice is for those without 50 different buttons on their mice! ;) (I could come up with some better wording but I'm working off 3 hours sleep after a night of 6 hours sleep.) Point is, If you have to move your courser all over the screen to reach your assassinate then you're going to hate it. And that's not cool for such an awesome ability.

Geonis
06-04-2009, 11:14 AM
Well, readin this thread got me thinkin bout makin my own Assassin.

Thoughts about the below?

EDIT: I didn't spend the last 5 levels of skill points, assume 5 more ranks in Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble, and Use Magic Device


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 16 True Neutral Halfling Male
(15 Rogue \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 146
Spell Points: 180
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 18
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 12 13
Dexterity 18 26
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 4 9.5
Bluff -1 5
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 3 13
Disable Device 7 19
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 8 32
Intimidate 3 13
Jump 5 8
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 8 32
Open Lock 8 22
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 18
Spot 3 12
Swim 1 1
Tumble 8 22
Use Magic Device 3 13

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Thriand
06-04-2009, 11:16 AM
Well, readin this thread got me thinkin bout makin my own Assassin.

Thoughts about the below?




Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 16 True Neutral Halfling Male
(15 Rogue \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 146
Spell Points: 180
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 18
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 12 13
Dexterity 18 26
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 4 9.5
Bluff -1 5
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 3 13
Disable Device 7 19
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 8 32
Intimidate 3 13
Jump 5 8
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 8 32
Open Lock 8 22
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 18
Spot 3 12
Swim 1 1
Tumble 8 22
Use Magic Device 3 13

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II




Why the wizard level?

Geonis
06-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Why the wizard level?

The Rogue capstone is meh, and it gives me the ability to use wands starting at a low level, as well as a self cast Shield (2 mins) or no fail Shield wands (even at low level).

I could just as easily do with out the Wiz level, but don't see any reason to go pure either.

EDIT: Mostly, because I don't want to splash 2 levels and lose a Rogue feat, and was thinking what gives the most bang for the buck with 1 level.

baddax
06-04-2009, 11:37 AM
If you start with at least a 12 wisdom, monk is the most bang for the buck imo. wis AC bonus + Free feat is hard to beat for 1 level. and UMD is a class skill for rogues so shield wands and such should not really be an issue.
Of course losing 1 DC to your assasinate can be a significant loss depending on end games DC's.

Geonis
06-04-2009, 11:41 AM
If you start with at least a 12 wisdom, monk is the most bang for the buck imo. wis AC bonus + Free feat is hard to beat for 1 level. and UMD is a class skill for rogues so shield wands and such should not really be an issue.
Of course losing 1 DC to your assasinate can be a significant loss depending on end games DC's.

Yeah, but where to free up the stat points for Wis?

As you said, can't really afford to take it from Int, can't lose more HPs, and Dex is a no-no. I could dump Str completely, but I've done that before and really wouldn't do that again.

Thriand
06-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Yeah, but where to free up the stat points for Wis?

As you said, can't really afford to take it from Int, can't lose more HPs, and Dex is a no-no. I could dump Str completely, but I've done that before and really wouldn't do that again.

Any thing is better than the wizard level IMO... and you can easily drop your int some 16 is overkill IMO but I'm not a big fan of assassin I like my acrobats. You don't really need that many skill points and your DC will only be one lower. But you can UMD shield wands easily at level 16 and 1 level of wizard really gains you nothing. Take Monk, Fighter, Barbarian, or even ranger if you are dead set on a 1 level splash.

Geonis
06-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Any thing is better than the wizard level IMO... and you can easily drop your int some 16 is overkill IMO but I'm not a big fan of assassin I like my acrobats. You don't really need that many skill points and your DC will only be one lower. But you can UMD shield wands easily at level 16 and 1 level of wizard really gains you nothing. Take Monk, Fighter, Barbarian, or even ranger if you are dead set on a 1 level splash.

Oh, Barbarian........didn't even think about that, speed boost would be nice........

Hmmmmmmmm............got some more thinkin to do there.

Kistilan
06-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Unless you're gaining something truly powerful, make the assassin a pure rogue.

Currently wisdom is not built in high enough and you are even more restricted to armors and weapons to gain your wisdom bonus -- meanwhile you gain evasion and improved evasion from your levels. A monk splash on rogue is better served in a Big Stick Rogue Acrobat/Monk build. If you can sacrifice the feat, take force of personality and a higher charisma for will saves -- use wisdom as a dump stat -- especially if you're splashing paly 2 or paly 3. If you're going 6 deep into ranger, wisdom may be a keeper for minor spells.

If you were to be a DPS and Assassin Hybrid, Paly or Ranger or Fighter are choice splashes for the assassin (as I believe there is no alignment restriction for assassin in DDO currently).

The Sorc/Wiz splash only truly makes sense on a Warforged. Again, it only truly makes sense on a warforged.

An assassin will have an insane amount of skill points (UMD 23 base) from the recommended (16 Int) starting stat that several have mentioned. There will be no need to splash in Soc/Wiz for most characters that are not depending on a repair wand and eventually you can self-heal with a golden cartouche and +6 Cha robe like a champ, as well is scroll heal/repair, etc. I have a Fighter 4/12 Rogue tentative Kensai-Assassin build (level 2 assassin already) that does very well in all these things and assassinates with a current 24 Int (16 +2 Int Tome +6 Int Item). A greensteel item could help out a little more -- I placed level up attributes into Strength, Dex came up as drow elf so str/dex equally run at 24-27 pending on gear equipped.

I also agree 18 or 20 is overkill -- you could get by on 14, but 16 grants 23 more skill points over the levelling process and if snag a +2 Int tome an additional 10-19 pending on when you eat it (I would recommend stopping at level 10 and grabbing 1750 favor for the +2 Int Tome if you have no luck attaining an unbound prior to this off another character -- this is how I've played several characters and it's rather easy these days).

I agree enhancements to sneak faster will likely be a boon -- I've yet to incorporate beyond minimal requirements, but shall soon.

A pure level 20 rogue with proper Int Dex Str would be smart. You don't need a beefy con -- especially if you can work Toughness into the build (which I have not yet and am still successful with 157-187 hps pending on con gear equipped). If the devs actually stick to their guns, there will be more capstones for every class later on -- and I recon the next Rogue Capstone will be the exact opposite of the current planned capstone (ie it will be pure awesome). So.... wiz/sorc splash for 1 level at your own peril -- might as well take a level of bard instead. ;) <3 Brenna.

QuantumFX
06-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Yeah, but where to free up the stat points for Wis?

As you said, can't really afford to take it from Int, can't lose more HPs, and Dex is a no-no. I could dump Str completely, but I've done that before and really wouldn't do that again.

Lower your starting INT to 14 and use the 4 build points to bump up WIS. Most of your Assassinate DC is based off rogue levels.

Kistilan
06-04-2009, 11:57 AM
Lower your starting INT to 14 and use the 4 build points to bump up WIS. Most of your Assassinate DC is based off rogue levels.

If he can accept the feat commitment, dump stat wisdom increase charisma be UMD-savvy and pick up force of personality to gain will saves off charisma. Bluff Diplomacy Intimidate Haggle etc will thank you later -- Spot is for people that can't rogue their way through the unknown. And listening is overrated too - rely on your saves.

Thriand
06-04-2009, 12:03 PM
If he can accept the feat commitment, dump stat wisdom increase charisma be UMD-savvy and pick up force of personality to gain will saves off charisma. Bluff Diplomacy Intimidate Haggle etc will thank you later -- Spot is for people that can't rogue their way through the unknown. And listening is overrated too - rely on your saves.

IMO points into cha are a waste on a rogue, your diplo and UMD will be plenty high enough without it, and having to take another feat to make cha useful is even worse, putting those points into wis and taking a level of monk will get you +1 feat instead of -1 as well as making your saves much higher than with force of personality while letting you achieve an uber AC while TWF.

Emili
06-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Rogues are hard pressed to spend more than one for one at creation. 14 int is plenty and to can still have some con/str. Two weapon chain is the second most important thing a rogue needs. The first is agro management. Assassinate is a fun toy and solo tool, but your going to be a critter lawn mower anyway with good agro management. Max subtile backstabber.

Varr has built many rogues... and I highly respec his opinions on them.

I recently built an assasin off the fly with really little help or direction... not the perfect one by far, but would say that she was one of the most fun of characters to cap in a long time... twf is awesom on an assasin (you can assasinate multiple mobs in a single attack)... twf also gives to you that mix/match of weapons which compliment one another.

14 int is pleanty at start for a rogue... ie.) 14 + 2 tome +6 item = 22 (a +6 mod) Assasinate DC is then 10 (base) + 16 (level) + 6 = 32 and I've yet to see anything (outside of those immune mob) save against it.

Every meleeing rogue imo should max sublte and should have max ranks in diplomacy from my experience with my rogue. keep your trap smithing ranks maxed ... but for most smithing skills I'd never put ap's in them - ap's are better spent on sneak attack damages, guile etc...

QuantumFX
06-04-2009, 12:11 PM
If he can accept the feat commitment, dump stat wisdom increase charisma be UMD-savvy and pick up force of personality to gain will saves off charisma. Bluff Diplomacy Intimidate Haggle etc will thank you later -- Spot is for people that can't rogue their way through the unknown. And listening is overrated too - rely on your saves.

The thread I was following was talking about a monk splash. (I'm operating on 3 hrs sleep so I may have missed something.) It was less about the spot score and more about the AC. Also, on a monk splash, FoP is pretty pointless. Now, if he was going for a different splash class I would agree on a mild investment into CHA and FoP. Having CHA double up all the defensive benefits is **** sweet. Saves an equipment slot and synergizes with Slippery Mind.

baddax
06-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Oh, Barbarian........didn't even think about that, speed boost would be nice........

Hmmmmmmmm............got some more thinkin to do there.

I think his point was Anything but, not necessarily suggesting barbarian.....:eek:

baddax
06-04-2009, 12:14 PM
As someone else suggests 18 dex may be over kill on a hafling rogue, drop dex to 16 and bump wisdom to 12.

Thriand
06-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I think his point was Anything but, not necessarily suggesting barbarian.....:eek:

Well not necessarily anything, spellcasters don't really have much synergy with the rogue class. But any full BAB class or monk splash works fine. Just make sure you know that if you take a class that doesn't have full BAB before level 16 you won't be able to take GTWF at level 15, which causes a significant drop in your DPS.

QuantumFX
06-04-2009, 12:20 PM
I think his point was Anything but, not necessarily suggesting barbarian.....:eek:

Just take Barbarian Speed + Acrobat Speed + Haste + Sprint Boost! Add it all together and his character will go PLAID!

D'rin
06-04-2009, 01:28 PM
kamimitsu, the question was directed at you. Thanks for replying. I am leveling 2 lowbie builds right now. One is pure rogue and halfling. My plan is to go one level of monk for wisdom ac +3 saves and a feat. The rogue capstone is not that appealing. I am not sure there is anything they could give that would make me regret my choice. I am waiting for the cap to go up before I take my monk level. My stats were at creation
st 12
dex 18
con 14
int 12
wis 14
cha 8
I ate a +2 int tome already and have +2 stat tomes for everything else if I want to use them.
Also thanks for the rogue proving grounds. It made the game interesting again. I am slower leveling because I am trying to do all the low level stuff first. Although I did lvl to 8 without doing some of the stuff. Oh well.



D'rin, I'm not sure to whom that question was directed, but my answer is "kinda".

My personal choice would be Dex-based Halfling with 11-13 STR. DEX 15-17. INT 13-15. CON 11-13. WIS 9. CHA whatever is left. All of those can be evened out with Tomes, etc. I generally do everything I can to NOT spend more than 2 points for any ability. Level ups in DEX (or alternately DEX/INT or DEX/STR)

My reasoning:
STR is necessary for carrying capacity (and DMG to a point on a Sneak Attack Dex build), so you can't skimp completely.
DEX is awesome for your To-Hit and AC, but I find that unless you are really going for AC, much over 30 end game is overkill as your To-Hit during Sneak Attack will be very very high.
CON is always a good thing, but aggro management can make up for somewhat low HP. 300 at current end-game is a good marker, and you can do it with that range.
WIS for Spot and Will Saves. Your will saves will blow, so you can go with Slippery Mind or Force of Personality. Spot is not incredibly important if you keep you skill up and get an item (for the few cases where it is necessary).
CHA for UMD, Diplo. Both of these are your friend. If you go very high CHA then Force of Personality is the way to go. I'd opt for somewhat lower CHA (12 ish?)

Kistilan
06-04-2009, 10:28 PM
IMO points into cha are a waste on a rogue, your diplo and UMD will be plenty high enough without it, and having to take another feat to make cha useful is even worse, putting those points into wis and taking a level of monk will get you +1 feat instead of -1 as well as making your saves much higher than with force of personality while letting you achieve an uber AC while TWF.

IMO... points in wisdom on a rogue (that's not a monk-splash) are a waste -- especially when if you splash you can double-dip on charisma with 2 levels of paly for saves. Monk will also get you penalties for centered and offer you little other benefit if not centered.

I was covering all builds -- I think. I'd have to review my post, but I didn't say DON'T do monk -- I said there are other options and the only reason to not make wisdom a dump stat is if you splash monk (and/or ranger).

All other builds are far-better served with charisma and FoP, unless you're the kind of player that needs SPOT and LISTEN. (Not all need to be told danger is ahead every moment).

Kistilan
06-04-2009, 10:32 PM
The thread I was following was talking about a monk splash. (I'm operating on 3 hrs sleep so I may have missed something.) It was less about the spot score and more about the AC. Also, on a monk splash, FoP is pretty pointless. Now, if he was going for a different splash class I would agree on a mild investment into CHA and FoP. Having CHA double up all the defensive benefits is **** sweet. Saves an equipment slot and synergizes with Slippery Mind.

Agreed although I think this thread started out with a question about rogue assassin and went into a diversity of splash classes, hence my many build suggestions based on my rogues and multi-rogues (and general understanding of the mechanics of DDO).

Yeah if he's going AC (and/or TWF) def monk (and/or Ranger) is the way to go -- but I think for the rogue assassin it's a poor mix when pure or rogue/paly or rogue/bard could all do better with high-cha and saves or songs amplifying fighting prowess and skill checks that matter to the assassin.

Thriand
06-04-2009, 11:04 PM
IMO... points in wisdom on a rogue (that's not a monk-splash) are a waste
agreed 100% I really wouldn't waste points on either wis or cha on a pure rogue. but if I had to choose one it would be wis.


especially when if you splash you can double-dip on charisma with 2 levels of paly for saves.
but then you are still multiclassing and I think the benefits of splashing 1 monk far outweigh the boost to saves from 2 paly. You still get a nice boost to your saves, a huge boost to AC, a feat, and you don't lose the level 19 rogue feat and SA damage


IMonk will also get you penalties for centered and offer you little other benefit if not centered.

What penalties do you speak of? You mean that one where you maintain full wis bonus to AC regardless of what weapons you use? Stances are of little use unless you are building a quarterstaff rogue.



I was covering all builds -- I think. I'd have to review my post, but I didn't say DON'T do monk -- I said there are other options and the only reason to not make wisdom a dump stat is if you splash monk (and/or ranger).

All other builds are far-better served with charisma and FoP, unless you're the kind of player that needs SPOT and LISTEN. (Not all need to be told danger is ahead every moment).
I agree with you there no point in dumping points into wis if you aren't going monk, but I think the same of charisma. An 8 base cha rogue can get plenty high enough diplo and UMD and its just not worth putting stat points into it as well as a feat to make it really worthwhile unless you are taking paly levels as well, but again I think the benefits of monk far outweigh paladin.

A starting 12 wis will net you the same will save as a 12 cha with force of personality, is it really worth taking a feat because it has a little more synergy with UMD? Especially since next mod our UMDs will be through the roof already with 23 points coming from ranks alone.

I personally think monk it the best choice for a splash class, but fighter, paladin, barbarian, and ranger all make good choices.

kamimitsu
06-04-2009, 11:15 PM
All other builds are far-better served with charisma and FoP, unless you're the kind of player that needs SPOT and LISTEN. (Not all need to be told danger is ahead every moment).

I can think of one good reason for spot: hidden monsters. I often take fellow rogues into Monastery for Shiz-brand Guided Tours, but if they don't have enough spot, they can't see the hidden scorpions and monks. Granted, that's only 1 quest (and not worth building a character around), but you never know if more hidden monsters will make it into the game.

D'rin given your starting stats, it really looks like you are building a TWF acrobat/monk splash. You could get crazy AC and do some sick damage with that setup. If I were you, I'd highly look at abandoning Assassin (or maybe play with it a bit, then respec) and going TWF acrobat/monk splash as you'd be playing to your strengths far more. I'm not saying that build can't be an Assassin, it just looks more effective as an Acrobat in my opinion.

baddax
06-04-2009, 11:23 PM
If you go TFW with an acrobat doesnt that miss one of the main benifits of the acrobat build the speed increase of the Q-staff.

Just curious as it seems to me it goes against the inherent synergy of the build. ie THF STR based build. Although there are other benifits to go acrobat it just seems like there is more potential going with build synergies than against them.

Thriand
06-04-2009, 11:25 PM
If you go TFW with an acrobat doesnt that miss one of the main benifits of the acrobat build the speed increase of the Q-staff.

Just curious as it seems to me it goes against the inherent synergy of the build. ie THF STR based build. Although there are other benifits to go acrobat it just seems like there is more potential going with build synergies than against them.

Its an AC build though the 4 extra uncanny dodges and immunity to knockdown go a long way in terms of defence. 4 uncanny dodges = 2 whole minutes of undispellable +6 AC. Also the showtime ability gives you +4 dex for another 2 AC for a minute, though at the steep steep price of a hasteboost. Best thing about Acrobat though is that most of the prereqs are things that you would take anyway like Haste boost and Rogue Dex, so it makes AP managing a little easier.

baddax
06-04-2009, 11:27 PM
makes sense.

kamimitsu
06-04-2009, 11:44 PM
Its an AC build though the 4 extra uncanny dodges and immunity to knockdown go a long way in terms of defence. 4 uncanny dodges = 2 whole minutes of undispellable +6 AC. Also the showtime ability gives you +4 dex for another 2 AC for a minute, though at the steep steep price of a hasteboost. Best thing about Acrobat though is that most of the prereqs are things that you would take anyway like Haste boost and Rogue Dex, so it makes AP managing a little easier.

This. The only reason I can think of to Max DEX and invest in WIS is silly AC. Silly AC is the Acrobat's domain, and they are speedy little buggers.