I suck at math

[Seamonkeysix]

I know there are probably more appropriate threads...but Sarlonans always come through!

Can anyone tell me why a green steel greataxe is superior to a green steel great sword? I realize that the greataxe gets x3 crits vs. x2 crits, but the great sword crits twice as often, and as I sit here and do the math over and over, I can't see the benefit of one over the other.

I could go into a long explanation about how this all started, but can a smart math person tell me why the axe is superior? (if it is)

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Two immediate thoughts:

1. Due to an early decision made when setting up the animations for our characters, greataxe swings faster than greatsword
2. If you're a dwarf you can get axe enhancements

Garth

[Seamonkeysix]

I am leveling a WF paladin. I took the bladesworn route, so I get +1 to great swords. I am really trying to figure out what to build and I NEVER see anyone with a green steel greatsword. Looking at the +1 enhancement and the fact that with improved crit, I would be critical hitting on 17-20 vs 19-20 (albeit x2 vs x3), it all seems to work out exactly equal. Talked to a guy forever about it in game and he was trying to explain why they are inferior...but I couldn't see it. Something about pally smites, with the x3 crit and weapon speed and then it all sounded like Charlie Brown's mom. It seems like critting more often with the greatsword would be better with the smites (and I do have a bloodstone), but he was telling me I was wrong by approximately 20 hit points of damage. I never got it. :confused:

[Dexxaan]

Don't sweat it bud.

Enjoy your WF-Greatsword wielding Pally.

20 dmg per swing differences is a small price to pay to enjoy your build and not be just another GS GreatAxe wielder.

[Seamonkeysix]

Something tells me you are mocking me, Bruttus. :p :D

Am I seriously missing something? Say you make a Min II Greataxe and Greatsword. They are both 3d6 base damage. The crits are X3 on the axe...so on average, you will get 9 more points per crit with the axe. Then you have and extra 1d10 for acid blast and burst. so an average of 10 more points per crit there. (5 x 2) So on any crit you should get an average of 19 more points from an axe...But...

You will crit on 17 and 18 with the greatsword. So...2 more times every 20 swings. Those 2 crits give you back the points for the acid, exactly. Then you get the base damage back for the x2 crit on the sword, as well.

The other factor that my screwy brain can't get itself around is how the pally smites will play in. Maybe that is the difference.

With the bladesworn, you get +1 to greatswords...so my fuzzy math gives the advantage to a WF with bladesworn to the greatsword. The only thing that might be off is the weapon speed, pally smites...and the fact that I really suck at math and when I start to think about DDO game mechanics, I start drinking.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Don't sweat it bud.

Enjoy your WF-Greatsword wielding Pally.

20 dmg per swing differences is a small price to pay to enjoy your build and not be just another GS GreatAxe wielder.

Whether Dexx is mocking or not, I completely agree with what he said. (I'm not mocking... :))

I have seen so many DPS threads on these forums, people doing the math, damage calculators, all that. It makes my head spin too and I have an Engineering degree AND an MBA! At the end of the day, I build my characters so I can enjoy playing them. For example, my human Pally uses longswords for similar reasons yours uses greatswords. I know his damage output would be better overall if I switched Feats around and used a Khopesh but I don't care. He's effective, he's solid and I enjoy playing him.

The difference in damage is at the margins and negligible, IMHO, especially if you are a good player. I would take a good player using a greatsword over a bad player using greataxes anyday. :p

[vyvy3369]

...Am I seriously missing something?...
As Garth pointed out, the swing speeds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172819) are the primary reason some weapons just aren't used over others. Even if the damage per swing is the same or even slightly better, attacking less often typically means you do less damage in total (you'd have to have something else giving a Greatsword ~6.5% edge over a Greataxe in terms of attack/damage, which just isn't really there).

With that being said, if you find yourself enjoying Greatswords over Greataxes, go for it - anyone who's going to give you a hard time about it is probably someone you don't want to group with anyways.

[Seamonkeysix]

Dexx would only mock me out of the kindness in his heart. ;)

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

As Garth pointed out, the swing speeds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172819) are the primary reason some weapons just aren't used over others. Even if the damage per swing is the same or even slightly better, attacking less often typically means you do less damage in total (you'd have to have something else giving a Greatsword ~6.5% edge over a Greataxe in terms of attack/damage, which just isn't really there).

With that being said, if you find yourself enjoying Greatswords over Greataxes, go for it - anyone who's going to give you a hard time about it is probably someone you don't want to group with anyways.

Greyl, if you listen to anyone's advice, listen to this guy. He definitely knows the mechanics of this game.

Kulgan reminds me of my DM for pen and paper. Whenever I start to get cocky thinking how smart I am, I think of my DM and realize there are people out there smarter than me and I look at them with wonder and awe. And whenever they speak, I pay close attention! :D

[Seamonkeysix]

All joking aside, I really do appreciate everyone's help on the Sarlona threads. We have great folks. :)

[Dexxaan]

Whether Dexx is mocking or not, I completely agree with what he said. (I'm not mocking... :))

I have seen so many DPS threads on these forums, people doing the math, damage calculators, all that. It makes my head spin too and I have an Engineering degree AND an MBA! At the end of the day, I build my characters so I can enjoy playing them. For example, my human Pally uses longswords for similar reasons yours uses greatswords. I know his damage output would be better overall if I switched Feats around and used a Khopesh but I don't care. He's effective, he's solid and I enjoy playing him.

The difference in damage is at the margins and negligible, IMHO, especially if you are a good player. I would take a good player using a greatsword over a bad player using greataxes anyday. :p

/QFT


And not mocking you Bro. I make builds that require precise fine tuning and push every limit (Bruttus, Suntzzu, Gregorius, Barbarrus, Predattor) and also my fun-builds. (Inquisittor the Raging-Barbarian-Cleric comes to mind :D)

Gotta have fun or the surgicalness wears off after a while.

[Seamonkeysix]

Good advice and I knew you weren't mocking me, Dexx. ( I suck at math and humor! ;) )

I actually really like my new toon and I am hoping the build will continue to be fun! You're right that the mechanics of the game can get in the way of the fun. I need to get rid of that nagging fear that I will spend time doing 100 Shroud runs getting my ingredients, build a weapon and hear, "Hey nice (insert new weapon)! Too bad you didn't make a (insert other weapon) with a (insert random trait I never thought of). You could do 1000 points more damage per minute!" :D

I did read the post with all the info about weapon speeds and so forth. One thing that seems to be constant is that there are plenty of differing opinions. I still don't understand the math, but I do appreciate the advice and I think I will build whatever strikes my fancy!