Drow/warchanter Advice

[markusthelion]

I'm fairly new to DDO, and I've played a few tanks. I just rolled Drow/bard and I want a warchanter. I'm dex based, I took wep finesse, and TWF (for rapiers). I'm currently lvl 4 with 3bard/1 fighter, and was wondering what other feats/enhancements I should take. Any feedback, negative or postive is good. Also I wondered if I should keep using light armor or switch to medium?

[Noctus]

Stay in light armor, or you will get arcane spell failure.


Feats:
ITWF
GTWF
Thoughness
Extend (Haste, Displacement, Focusing Chant)
IC:Piercing.

[Freeman]

Stay in light armor, or you will get arcane spell failure.


Feats:
ITWF
GTWF
Thoughness
Extend (Haste, Displacement, Focusing Chant)
IC:Piercing.

Even with two fighter levels, there's not room for all of those feats on a Warchanter, since he'll also need Weapon Focus and Power Attack. I'd wait until level 18 to take GTWF myself.

[Noctus]

Even with two fighter levels, there's not room for all of those feats on a Warchanter, since he'll also need Weapon Focus and Power Attack. I'd wait until level 18 to take GTWF myself.

6 base feats
2 fighter bonus feats


Feats to take:
- WF:Piercing
- Power Attack
- Thoughness
- TWF
- ITWf
- GTWF
- IC:piercing
- Extend

8 feats used.
1 more feat to freely spend at the 18th level.

So where is there not enough room?

[Freeman]

He's also taking Weapon Finesse. Without seeing his stats, I don't know if he could do without it, but he did say he is Dex-based.

[markusthelion]

He's also taking Weapon Finesse. Without seeing his stats, I don't know if he could do without it, but he did say he is Dex-based.

My starting stats were, str 10
dex 18
con 14
int 12
wis 8
char 12
I think, I may have missed a point here or there, but I did need wep finesse.

[Noctus]

He's also taking Weapon Finesse. Without seeing his stats, I don't know if he could do without it, but he did say he is Dex-based.

Ah, okay.
Then i´d leave out Extend.


DEX-Warchanters are worse than their STR brothers, exactly for that reason. Costs a feat on a feat starved build. And you get less from being perma-raged. And deal less damage.

[markusthelion]

So would you recommend re-rolling? I thought that a high dex would give me more survior ability at end game, I mean I don't want to but if the difference is huge then maybe I should. Also, exactly how much should I spend in perform points? I mean I know I need a few (inspire courage and such) but how much should I really focus on it?

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Isn't it good advice to go max ranks in Perform on ANY bard? Your songs are what make you unique and special...not your DPS, and not your AC.

Elf or Drow Warchanters (dex or str based) are imo difficult to play for a new player since they tend to be somewhat squishy. I really like the concept though--a bard that is a flash of spinning deadly rapiers. I built a similar elf tempest ranger. Two words on that build--glass cannon. It can work but you must be careful about aggro--and aggro management is hard for a new player. Get Heavy Fort item too as soon as you can use one (usually lvl 11 I think).

You'll be pretty lethal at lower levels but from gianthold on is going to be tougher. You may find yourself doing more wand-whipping than fighting at times. Or at least I did.

[CSFurious]

equals epic failure IMO

i would grind hard for 32-points & make a human, dwarf or wf warchanter for current end-game

[Thanimal]

So would you recommend re-rolling? I thought that a high dex would give me more survior ability at end game, I mean I don't want to but if the difference is huge then maybe I should. Also, exactly how much should I spend in perform points? I mean I know I need a few (inspire courage and such) but how much should I really focus on it?

I'm afraid I have to agree with the sentiment that Finesse is not really workable for TWF Warchanter, simply because of the extra feat in an ultra-feat-starved build. My favorite Warchanter is Human straight Bard with STR and CHA as primary stats, but that is almost impossible to do as TWF because of the 3 needed feats. For TWF Warchanter, I suggest Dwarf (since you won't have any hope of Khopesh proficiency, Dwarf ends up the best damage dealer with axe enhancements) and 2 levels of Fighter. I've been levelling a build like that and it seems to work, but be warned it's no caster. In fact, with no real hope of good DCs, I decided to put all level-ups into STR rather than CHA.

As far as getting good AC on a Bard at the end-game, I'm fairly sure it's impossible. I've tried a lot of options on paper and I just can't get there. The Dwarf does seem best for AC, though, with the ability to get a big dex bonus in Mithral Breast Plate. Perhaps can get into "marginally useful" territory, and then rely on Displacement (and massively increasing everyon else's DPS!) to avoid getting squished.

[markusthelion]

Thanks for all the advice guys, while I am new I'm not brand new though lol. I have played many mmorpgs, so I know what my bounds are for the aggro. (I'm not the halfling cleric that aggro's everything, we've all played with those guys) I was told however that dex based drow/warchanters are actually good though. Was I lied to? and a WF warchanter? I dunno bout that.

[Thanimal]

Thanks for all the advice guys, while I am new I'm not brand new though lol. I have played many mmorpgs, so I know what my bounds are for the aggro. (I'm not the halfling cleric that aggro's everything, we've all played with those guys) I was told however that dex based drow/warchanters are actually good though. Was I lied to? and a WF warchanter? I dunno bout that.

Ya know, if you max all your songs and don't splash so many non-Bard levels as to totally gimp your Bardness, it's almost impossible to build a Warchanter that people won't want in their parties. The buffs to everyone's DPS in a game that is very DPS-centric are just plain amazing.

But, in my personal opinion, a Drow Dex TWF Warchanter cannot be an optimal build. Both its DPS and its survivability are worse than a Dwarf.

Drow is decent for caster Bard, but personally I still prefer Human -- and if you have 32-point builds then I think Human is a slam-dunk.

[Noctus]

Drw can make good TWF Warchanters. The race has very good synergies with that build.

Unmatched in fact, if you dont have PB32 Human in combination with a +2 DEX tome. Human have the disadvantage to need EWP:Kopesh and OTWF to compensate for the lack of racial weapon enhancements for Rapier and Shortsword that Drow get.

-------------------

Drow: 14 Bard / 2 Fighter
start with the bard level to get much more skillpoints.

Strength 16 level ups here
Dexterity 16 (+1 DEX tome)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 8
Charisma 12

You can get a +1 DEX tome off the AH, if you save up a bit. If you have to you can take a substitute feat instead of ITWF untill you get it and then swap ITWF in.



Feats to take:
- WF: Piercing
- Power Attack
- Thoughness
- TWF
- ITWf
- GTWF
- IC: Piercing
- Extend


Your defence is DR 5/- or later at endgame DR 10/Adamantine through a selfwhipped Stoneskin wand. In combination with being perma-Displaced.

Forget about AC once you reach the Gianthold area.

When choosing equipment focus on the best fortification item you can get, as well as the highes + CON item and biggest False Live item.

Take all the thoughness enhancements, and max out your buff-song enhancements.

Skills:
Max out UMD and Perform, the DC of your only working CC (fascinate) depends on it. Jump, Haggle, Concentration and Balance are also good skills.

As long as Displacement and your DR song is up you will be about as though as the normal DPS builds, who have no real defence besides being buffed with Blur by you.

Buff the whole group with Blur, sing then your buffsongs, keep the group perma-Hasted. Keep yourself perma-Raged and perma-Displaced.
Carry some healing wands to help the cleric a bit, but dont waste your mana on healing. Your healing spells are not efficient enough to allow your mana to be spend on them, and not on keeping the group and you in top buffing condition.


The predecessor too my current main was build along this lines, and i had a blast playing him.

[Aerendil]

My apologies for the necro bump, but I wanted to add to this that Drow TWF is possible if you have the right starting stats, the right feat allotment, and play smart. And, of course, the right gear :p

It's not easy, and as mentioned above, can be a glass cannon. But... STR isn't absolutely critical on a Warchanter. It's not. I've argued this before.

Bonuses alone will include:
- racial enhancements in rapier/SS. Let's say this is +1 hit, +2 dmg (the +2 to hit is costly).
- with PA : -5 hit, +5 dmg.
- inspire courage at 20 = +4 hit / +4 dmg. maxed enhancements bring this up to +7 / +7 (possibly +8/+8 at 20?)
- warchanter I = +1 hit / +2 dmg. If this turns out to be linear, this would be +3 / +6 at Tier III... sick.
- min. str of 13 for PA = min. endgame str of 19'ish (+6 item, not counting tomes). let's round up to 20 for neatness. that's +5 hit / +5 dmg.


Total, that's +14 to hit, +16 dmg for mainhand (+14 hit / +13 dmg offhand) without PA on.
With PA on that's +9 to hit, +21 dmg (+9 / +18 offhand).
If Warchanter III is linear, that's a further +2 to hit / +4 damage.
Throw in twin +5 weapons for silliness, and that's a further +5 hit / +5dmg per hand.
Assuming +4 level ups go into STR boosts, that's a further +2 / +2.

Discounting transmuting weapons, how much more +dmg would you need to bypass DR? That should be enough for your W/P weapons, no?

[baddax]

This is a very fun build. I have one and the best thing is the self buffing ability. He is a good fighter with plenty to hit and damage. Plus he makes all the melees around him better.

Fight like a fighter buff like a bard. Very good solo ability also.