Looking for input on halfling healing/buffing bard..............

[Mhykke]

A little background:

I have a bard already, and have turned him into a healer mainly. I have plenty of melee, so that's why I'm not going the warchanter route. It's worked out quite well, he can replace a cleric with another melee, and increase the damage output of the group. I originally built him with offensive casting in mind as well, but truthfully, with certain immunities in game and such, I don't find myself casting too many offensive spells, and just find myself healing/buffing mostly. So with the changes to halfling hero companion, and with dragonmark usage, I want to see if I can build one that's a bit better healing/buffing. The problem is it's real expensive in feats and enhancements.

I've pretty much decided to dump str. Originally, I had it dumped all the way, but talking with a couple people, figured I could skip on a couple things, bump str up a bit, take a couple guile enhancements, and see if I could off tank a bit. Still not sure I want to go this route........Also, can't decide about splashing a level of wizard for the extra metamagic. If I do, can take improved mental toughness, if I don't, I lose imp. mental toughness (105 spell points at 20), but can pick up bard lvl 20 for the extra +1 damage to my songs, and the capstone which gives me 2 cha (25 spell points back for a difference of 80 spell points), and 20% longer songs, which is nice.

Anyway, here's a rough idea of where I'm going, let me know what you think:

Halfling (base stats)
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

Should turn into, unbuffed, something like this at 16:
Str 22
Dex 12
Con 22
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 34


Feats at 20 (in no particular order)
Empower Healing, quicken, Least dragonmark of healing, mental toughness, extend, imp mental toughness, lesser dragonmark of healing, greater dragonmark of healing

Again, if I drop the wizard level, I'll lose imp. mental toughness probably


Enhancements at 16
Bard Inspired Attack I
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song II
Spellsinger I
Extra Dragonmark III
Halfling Cunning II
Halfling Guile II
Halfling Heroic Companion III
Bard Concentration II
Bard Lyric of Song III
Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
Bard Song Magic IV
Bard Energy of Music II
Bard Scroll Mastery III

We get 16 more APs to spend after level cap. If I stay pure 2 go for capstone, 4 for spellsinger 1 and 2, leaving me with 10 to play with things like heroic companion 4, and maybe the last extra dragonmark or lingering song 3.....

Edit:
Dropped cha by 2 and added 4 to str

Anyway, that's the rough cut, let me know what you think,

Thx


PS
Obviously this is all subject to change when we know more about warchanter/virtuoso/spellsinger 2 and 3.

[BelVic]

You have no "grease" spell on your bard ? Now I can feel safe and go afk near Mhykke new bard.


about feats : why not to take maximize instead of empower healing and get most for the bucks from halfling "cough...fleshie..1/2 ling" dragonmarks. ?

[HeavenlyCloud]

Hate... reroll... Hi... Rule #33... Hero's companion!

Looks solid... besides i miss the times when you used to cast hero's companion on my barb...

[Mhykke]

You have no "grease" spell on your bard ? Now I can feel safe and go afk near Mhykke new bard.


about feats : why not to take maximize instead of empower healing and get most for the bucks from halfling "cough...fleshie..1/2 ling" dragonmarks. ?

I'm going w/ empower healing b/c it'll work with the heal spell that'll be on my halfling dragonmark......

And I'll still have grease! :D

[totmacher]

quicken isn't really necessary imo unless you plan to be healing in the blades in the shroud (which you often do so maybe you should take it)

[maddmatt70]

It looks pretty good. I like that you have a 10 str so you have the option if you pick up a +3 str tome to swap to warchanter (need Power Attack which requires a 13 str) if you want to have better buffs.

The big question for me is the wizard level. I would actually drop this because with the capstone you get +2 to cha which means you will get spell points from that level and +1 to your inspire courage as well. The wizard level only means a little bit more sp then the +2 to cha between the improved mental toughness and the wizard level itself. That +1 to inspire courage is worth 300+ sp to me even on a healing bard. There is also the question of what works best with halfling dragonmarks in terms of metamagics (maximize/empower) vs. what works best for the rest of bard healing spells (empower healing). I like empower healing better even with the dragonmarks, but that is in part my style.

[maddmatt70]

quicken isn't really necessary imo unless you plan to be healing in the blades in the shroud (which you often do so maybe you should take it)

To be a true healing bard I would argue quicken is necessary. The kobold quest is a great example of this. You need quicken in there to avoid getting your healing spells interrupted at the end fight.

[Mhykke]

It looks pretty good. I like that you have a 10 str so you have the option if you pick up a +3 str tome to swap to warchanter (need Power Attack which requires a 13 str) if you want to have better buffs.

The big question for me is the wizard level. I would actually drop this because with the capstone you get +2 to cha which means you will get spell points from that level and +1 to your inspire courage as well. The wizard level only means a little bit more sp then the +2 to cha between the improved mental toughness and the wizard level itself. That +1 to inspire courage is worth 300+ sp to me even on a healing bard. There is also the question of what works best with halfling dragonmarks in terms of metamagics (maximize/empower) vs. what works best for the rest of bard healing spells (empower healing). I like empower healing better even with the dragonmarks, but that is in part my style.

Yep, I'm definitely leaning away from splashing wizard. I figure worst case scenario, I have to drink a pot every once in a while. Not a huge deal.

I'm also prob. going emp. heal, solely so that it works for all my dragonmarks, including the heal one, so in a situation where I really need to pop someone with a big heal that's not a scroll, I'll have it up..

[totmacher]

To be a true healing bard I would argue quicken is necessary. The kobold quest is a great example of this. You need quicken in there to avoid getting your healing spells interrupted at the end fight.

resist 30 wand + fire shield scrolls... a healing bard will also have enough item slots to throw in either a belt of thoughtful remeberance or a conc item. since you're interchanging heal scrolls most of the time with spells, somehting's gonna get interrupted

[Mhykke]

resist 30 wand + fire shield scrolls... a healing bard will also have enough item slots to throw in either a belt of thoughtful remeberance or a conc item. since you're interchanging heal scrolls most of the time with spells, somehting's gonna get interrupted

A big reason I go with quicken on my bard is b/c I let people drop a bit more in hit points than I do when I'm on my cleric. B/c of the limited SP pool, I try not to overheal as much as possible. So I let people dip a little lower in hit points, and pop off quickened empowered healed masses.

[maddmatt70]

resist 30 wand + fire shield scrolls... a healing bard will also have enough item slots to throw in either a belt of thoughtful remeberance or a conc item. since you're interchanging heal scrolls most of the time with spells, somehting's gonna get interrupted

I use sp in Kobold mostly when I am on my healing bard. I also like having quicken when I need to really bring the healing power/healing speed. This is more if you are a solo healer as a bard especially on raids which is not out of question here for Mhykke to do from what I can understand. On my clerics I do not use quicken much for healing purposes other then interruption (kobold example) although I will not be surprised if I am on a brand new raid if I turn it on next mod.

[HeavenlyCloud]

You got any "ideal" equipment? We can assume you are trying to reduce the costs of your spells so getting the hound necklace is a given... but what about the other slots? Just curious.

Also you said you are going to "tank" a little bit. Are you using repeaters? daggers? what are you using? OMG TELL ME NOW!!! err...

[maddmatt70]

A big reason I go with quicken on my bard is b/c I let people drop a bit more in hit points than I do when I'm on my cleric. B/c of the limited SP pool, I try not to overheal as much as possible. So I let people dip a little lower in hit points, and pop off quickened empowered healed masses.


Interesting reading other people's healing styles.

I tend to be a big topper with my healing style. I use scrolls to top people off and that sort of carries over to my spells although in the shroud raid I have been using alot of interval healing on 4 and 5 because of lag and dps lag. My guildie Doktr is much more into letting people's health go down and dropping a heal when they are closer to death to not waste mana as an overall style. I do not tend to waste mana but I do use quite a bit more scrolls then Doktr.

[Mhykke]

Interesting reading other people's healing styles.

I tend to be a big topper with my healing style. I use scrolls to top people off and that sort of carries over to my spells although in the shroud raid I have been using alot of interval healing on 4 and 5 because of lag and dps lag. My guildie Doktr is much more into letting people's health go down and dropping a heal when they are closer to death to not waste mana as an overall style. I do not tend to waste mana but I do use quite a bit more scrolls then Doktr.

Yeah, I definitely mix in the heal scrolls to try and top off individual people on my bard, pretty much every time I'm off scroll cooldown if the party needs it.

But when using masses, I tend to look at the party overall, and let a number of people go down a little bit more than when I'm on my cleric, and hit them with a mass. While I'm doing this, I'll pop off a heal scroll on the lowest hp party member at the time to make sure I don't lose anyone. And if I do, I just blame it on lag. ;):D

[Mhykke]

You got any "ideal" equipment? We can assume you are trying to reduce the costs of your spells so getting the hound necklace is a given... but what about the other slots? Just curious.

Also you said you are going to "tank" a little bit. Are you using repeaters? daggers? what are you using? OMG TELL ME NOW!!! err...

Nothing ideal yet. The equipment will be standard, ton of greensteel. I don't know if I'm really sold on the hound necklace for him. I mean, I'm going to try and go with an archmagi item, so the wizardry 6 is worthless from the necklace, and I'll have at least 1 con. opp item on him, which means I don't need the wisdom +6 from the necklace either.

And not going to tank on him, just off tank. If I don't have to worry about keeping the party up too much, I'll just cast master's touch and probably pull out a min. II maul and get sneak attacks on a mob that a real dps'er is hitting. My str should be in the low 20's, and with sneak attack and bard songs up, should be ok for a little off tank.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Nothing ideal yet. The equipment will be standard, ton of greensteel. I don't know if I'm really sold on the hound necklace for him. I mean, I'm going to try and go with an archmagi item, so the wizardry 6 is worthless from the necklace, and I'll have at least 1 con. opp item on him, which means I don't need the wisdom +6 from the necklace either.

And not going to tank on him, just off tank. If I don't have to worry about keeping the party up too much, I'll just cast master's touch and probably pull out a min. II maul and get sneak attacks on a mob that a real dps'er is hitting. My str should be in the low 20's, and with sneak attack and bard songs up, should be ok for a little off tank.

Just asked cause you kinda listed Int 22 that's with an item i suppose but yet only a 16 con :D.

Also the gain from the hound necklace is the empowered healing sp reduction which on the long run might be worth it.

[maddmatt70]

Yeah, I definitely mix in the heal scrolls to try and top off individual people on my bard, pretty much every time I'm off scroll cooldown if the party needs it.

But when using masses, I tend to look at the party overall, and let a number of people go down a little bit more than when I'm on my cleric, and hit them with a mass. While I'm doing this, I'll pop off a heal scroll on the lowest hp party member at the time to make sure I don't lose anyone. And if I do, I just blame it on lag. ;):D

On the shroud now I do not even look at red bars on parts 4 and 5 when fighting Harry. I literally mass cure every x seconds and then when the blades on part 4 are in I mass cure with more frequency.

On everything else I tend to top people off with mass cure scrolls and when they get down far enough I hit them with a mass cure spell. When one or two people get really down there I hit them with a heal scroll or heal spell. It sounds pretty similar to what you do. Except for the topping with the mass cure scrolls - I can not help it man :).

[Mhykke]

Just asked cause you kinda listed Int 22 that's with an item i suppose but yet only a 16 con :D.

Also the gain from the hound necklace is the empowered healing sp reduction which on the long run might be worth it.

Whoop, fixed the con.

Yeah, the emp. healing is nice. I'll probably wind up picking it up and putting it on when I'm just sitting back throwing heals around.

[Mhykke]

On the shroud now I do not even look at red bars on parts 4 and 5 when fighting Harry. I literally mass cure every x seconds and then when the blades on part 4 are in I mass cure with more frequency.

On everything else I tend to top people off with mass cure scrolls and when they get down far enough I hit them with a mass cure spell. When one or two people get really down there I hit them with a heal scroll or heal spell. It sounds pretty similar to what you do. Except for the topping with the mass cure scrolls - I can not help it man :).

Oh trust me, I have stacks of the mass cure scrolls too. :D

[Mhykke]

Ok, I've thought about it and dropped starting cha to 16, and bumped str to 14.

[totmacher]

quicken is still a useless idea, i get the point about overhealing, but in reality a bard's never gonna be able to heal most tanks to full with one spell. i view bards as more of a constant output using a three chain: wand, heal scroll, spell. and that's if things get dicey: i whip scrolls most the time. i've had very few occasions where my healing bard is so in the thick of things that he can't mez or diplo or whatever. we'll see with the next mod though

[totmacher]

also why skills? if i remember right bards get 6 + int, that should be something like 7 maxed skills with 12 int (after +2 tome): perform, balance, umd, concentration, haggle, jump, intimidate? diplo? for the last. you wouldn't even need diplo as you get +10 from supp. conc goggles/eva

[Mhykke]

but in reality a bard's never gonna be able to heal most tanks to full with one spell.

I can w/ a dragonmark heal, which quicken will help with. Also, I'll have a decent number of the other dragonmarks that I'll be using also. I'm better off with quicken, casting these and then being able to cast a mass in cast the party takes a hit.


also why skills? if i remember right bards get 6 + int, that should be something like 7 maxed skills with 12 int (after +2 tome): perform, balance, umd, concentration, haggle, jump, intimidate? diplo? for the last. you wouldn't even need diplo as you get +10 from supp. conc goggles/eva

Yeah, I'll dump int.

[maddmatt70]

also why skills? if i remember right bards get 6 + int, that should be something like 7 maxed skills with 12 int (after +2 tome): perform, balance, umd, concentration, haggle, jump, intimidate? diplo? for the last. you wouldn't even need diplo as you get +10 from supp. conc goggles/eva

I agree totally if he is not going to splash wizard make int a dump stat and put those points into cha or str.

Edit: 14 str, 14 con, 18 cha, 8 int, 8 wis, 10 dex.. done..

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Why do you have a 22 Intel? Is that a +6 Intel item taking up space? When I first saw it, I assumed this was a Bard with 2 Rogue levels for traps and such and therefore getting your Intel to 22 makes sense. But as it stands, I don't get it... Is that just a typo?

[Mhykke]

I agree totally if he is not going to splash wizard make int a dump stat and put those points into cha or str.

Edit: 14 str, 14 con, 18 cha, 8 int, 8 wis, 10 dex.. done..

Yeah, I'll switch it up.


Why do you have a 22 Intel? Is that a +6 Intel item taking up space? When I first saw it, I assumed this was a Bard with 2 Rogue levels for traps and such and therefore getting your Intel to 22 makes sense. But as it stands, I don't get it... Is that just a typo?

Changing OP

[spaarhawk]

How does this build do on the rare occasion that you would need to solo? Does it hold it's own reasonably well?