Build this Fighter (Challenge!)

[Darlor]

Looking for a 32 point character who is deadly with the longsword. Must be sturdy, and preferably quick (e.g. haste).

Requirements:
- Human or elf
- Longsword
- Either not squishy or bloody hard to hit
- No tower shield
- High damage output; not going to be competitive with a two hander or two weapon fighting, but should be a fair bit higher than your average sword and board.
- NO KOPESH!

Preferences:
- Not TWF. I'll consider it, but prefer otherwise.
- Kensai
- No ranger or rogue levels. Once again, I'll consider it but prefer otherwise.

Currently I'm working up the favour for 32 point builds (new to the game) and am looking to create a deadly yet hardy longsword based fighter. Until I unlock the 32 pointer I'm experimenting with various builds, with two viable ones appearing so far. The obvious human strength based sword/board pure fighter, and a dex based elven (dex without finesse, who would have thought?) fighter/wizard (4/1 currently, aiming at 11/5 for haste/displacement and both quicken/extend metas) who has been able to solo most elites so far. The former makes for a decent intimitank in groups whereas the latter has higher damage output and very high AC, though he's a two weapon fighter.

Note that I do not care for end-game raid viability. Doing kobold assault solo (without a hireling) at level 3 was more fun than any raiding I've done in other MMOs. Also I don't require a full build with all feats/enhancements listed - bouncing ideas for feats, enhancements, race/class combos etc. to optimize the idea for this build will suffice and be appreciated.

Oh and feel free to crush my hopes/dreams. Go!

[Aspenor]

If you want to do real damage, you'll have to twf.

I suggest 20 fighter, elf (not drow, regular elf), and throw in the elf dragonmarks, up to the second tier (if I remember correctly, the second tier of elf dragonmark is displacement).

Extend spell, if I remember correctly, works on your elven dragonmarks and will make them last longer.

[Darlor]

What do you mean by real damage? If you mean raid viable then I'm not concerned, but if you mean doing more than tickling my opponents, then that's something I need to consider.

I'll definitely look into the dragonmark if I stay out of wizard (though in that case I won't have extend, mind you).

[maddmatt70]

I do not know how you feel about monk splash builds but they are pretty hardy anyway the elf with displacement dragonmarks would be good for somebody who just likes playing the low to mid levels.. You should look into it.

[Aspenor]

What do you mean by real damage? If you mean raid viable then I'm not concerned, but if you mean doing more than tickling my opponents, then that's something I need to consider.

I'll definitely look into the dragonmark if I stay out of wizard (though in that case I won't have extend, mind you).

Hitting things with one weapon is basically tickling them at end-game. It works to about level 10 but beyond that there's not much a point. Displacement brings a 50% miss chance before they swing on your AC, so it'll keep you pretty survivable.

I may also be wrong about this one, but I think you can select extend spell as a feat (not a fighter bonus feat, just a regular feat you'd get at 1, 3, 6,.....) without taking a spellcaster level. Be a kensai and boost that DPS output, make sure to have haste boosts and extra dragonmark enhancements. Fighter 20 brings a 10% increase in attack speed, further boosting your damage output.

[Darlor]

I looked into picking up a few levels of monk, but didn't see anything all that appealing. Also note that I do intend on taking this character into end-game, I just don't care for raids and don't mind being slightly "gimp" to create this build.


If I go kensai, wouldn't I end up using power surges instead of the fighter haste? In light of that, I've taken human versatility (though won't be able to for elf, of course) since it helps intimidates, defense or offense as appropriate. I've taken the haste for my elf, however.

How does a 1h build in elite STK or TR compare to level 10+ normal/hard? Does this mean that damage output without a 2h or TWF will be negligible?

[Thrudh]

Looking for a 32 point character who is deadly with the longsword. Must be sturdy, and preferably quick (e.g. haste).

Requirements:
- Human or elf
- Longsword
- Either not squishy or bloody hard to hit
- No tower shield
- High damage output; not going to be competitive with a two hander or two weapon fighting, but should be a fair bit higher than your average sword and board.

Preferences:
- Not TWF. I'll consider it, but prefer otherwise.
- Kensai
- No ranger or rogue levels. Once again, I'll consider it but prefer otherwise.

Currently I'm working up the favour for 32 point builds (new to the game) and am looking to create a deadly yet hardy longsword based fighter. Until I unlock the 32 pointer I'm experimenting with various builds, with two viable ones appearing so far. The obvious human strength based sword/board pure fighter, and a dex based elven (dex without finesse, who would have thought?) fighter/wizard (4/1 currently, aiming at 11/5 for haste/displacement and both quicken/extend metas) who has been able to solo most elites so far. The former makes for a decent intimitank in groups whereas the latter has higher damage output and very high AC, though he's a two weapon fighter.

Note that I do not care for end-game raid viability. Doing kobold assault solo (without a hireling) at level 3 was more fun than any raiding I've done in other MMOs. Also I don't require a full build with all feats/enhancements listed - bouncing ideas for feats, enhancements, race/class combos etc. to optimize the idea for this build will suffice and be appreciated.

Oh and feel free to crush my hopes/dreams. Go!

You'll want elf because they get bonuses with longswords..

Since you're going fighter, you'll have lots of feats, so get at least the first two dragonmarks, since the 2nd one is displacement (50% chance the bad-guys will miss you - this is very very good)

Max out STR, get a high CON... don't worry too much about Dex, since you don't care about TWF... Get a 12 INT, so Combat Expertise (and Improved Trip) is a possibility down the road.

Pretty straight-forward... Get the Weapon Specialization Feats for more damage... Get Power Attack... Stunning Blow is a good feat... Haste Boosts are a must... Kensai will work well a straight fighter like this, and the 20th level fighter capstone is very good...

Your DPS WILL be sub-standard though, if you don't go TWF or THF... However, switching to a two-handed weapon is always an option, so don't worry about it.

Why no tower shield, by the way?

[Kanamycin]

you may not be looking for end game/ raid viability but some builds will not even perform decently when they reach gianthold.

[Aspenor]

Personally I think he should go for TWF since it's so easy with the elf bonus to dexterity and a cheap +1 tome. If he has access to a +2, even better, because it'll bring more hit points with a con boost.

If I were making this type of build I wouldn't want a shield, and I definitely wouldn't spend build points on INT for Combat Expertise. I'd keep the power attack on and focus on killing things before they kill me.

[spifflove]

Elf

Rogue 18/Paladin2

16 + levels
16
12
14
08
12

Feats:
SA line
IC slash
toughness
Whirlwind attack
optional

Enhancements
Elf longsword
Paladin longsword
racial toughness
others optional

Favored lowbie weapon: Retribution (for weapon plus str plus 13d6 damage)

[Aspenor]

If I go kensai, wouldn't I end up using power surges instead of the fighter haste? In light of that, I've taken human versatility (though won't be able to for elf, of course) since it helps intimidates, defense or offense as appropriate. I've taken the haste for my elf, however.

How does a 1h build in elite STK or TR compare to level 10+ normal/hard? Does this mean that damage output without a 2h or TWF will be negligible?

You'd use both. More boosts = more damage. Also, I also wouldn't bother with intimidate for this type of build either.

Comparing a 1hander in STK or TR to a 1hander in end-game is like comparing Paris Hilton to the Pope.

[Thrudh]

If I were making this type of build I wouldn't want a shield, and I definitely wouldn't spend build points on INT for Combat Expertise. I'd keep the power attack on and focus on killing things before they kill me.


You would never make this kind of build.... :)

I suggest an INT of 12, because that leaves the option open.. Combat Expertise (+5 to your AC) has it's uses especially for a Shield-using character, and Improved Trip can be quite useful too. A monster on it's back can't fight back...

This guy is not looking for a max DPS, raid-ready character... Improved Trip and Stunning Blow are fun tactical feats that make playing a fighter fun throughout the game (especially the low-mid levels)

[Darlor]

You'll want elf because they get bonuses with longswords..

Since you're going fighter, you'll have lots of feats, so get at least the first two dragonmarks, since the 2nd one is displacement (50% chance the bad-guys will miss you - this is very very good)

Max out STR, get a high CON... don't worry too much about Dex, since you don't care about TWF... Get a 12 INT, so Combat Expertise (and Improved Trip) is a possibility down the road.

Pretty straight-forward... Get the Weapon Specialization Feats for more damage... Get Power Attack... Stunning Blow is a good feat... Haste Boosts are a must... Kensai will work well a straight fighter like this, and the 20th level fighter capstone is very good...

Your DPS WILL be sub-standard though, if you don't go TWF or THF... However, switching to a two-handed weapon is always an option, so don't worry about it.

Why no tower shield, by the way?

Substandard I can live with, and the build you've listed is the rough framework I've in mind. Now I'm looking for ways to optimize it. I was uncertain between elf/human since human can get +2 to strength from enhancements, and elves suffer the con penalty, though if I stay out of wizard the displacement will easily make up for that. However by hitting 5 levels of wizard I'll have that displacement without the feats, along with haste, +4 AC from shield if I TWF, along with other tricks (quickened invisibility for example, though I've no idea how that will actually work out).

As for tower shield, it's largely a conceptual thing (far too encumbering) though I don't much care for the attack penalty either. Having said that, I'll carry one around if I need to intimitank for a group.

[Thrudh]

Also, I also wouldn't bother with intimidate for this type of build either.

Why not? Intimidate is pretty useful even outside a raid setting... And since he plans on using a shield, and has plenty of fighter feats, he could even invest a bit in Shield Mastery (for occasional blocking)


Comparing a 1hander in STK or TR to a 1hander in end-game is like comparing Paris Hilton to the Pope.

You can do okay in end-game with just a single vorpal and a shield... Or a stunning blow, along with a burst weapon for the auto-crits. That self-cast displacement and a decent AC helps a lot.

He can always pull out a two-hander for DPS on the end-boss...

He gave us his parameters, he can do okay even inside those limits...

[Darlor]

You would never make this kind of build.... :)

I suggest an INT of 12, because that leaves the option open.. Combat Expertise (+5 to your AC) has it's uses especially for a Shield-using character, and Improved Trip can be quite useful too. A monster on it's back can't fight back...

This guy is not looking for a max DPS, raid-ready character... Improved Trip and Stunning Blow are fun tactical feats that make playing a fighter fun throughout the game (especially the low-mid levels)

That's about right, and I do plan on having an int score sufficient for CE (especially if I go into wizard, for obvious reasons).

How does improved trip/stunning blow work in the level 10-16 adventures?

And to Spifflove - hadn't even considered anything of that sort, but I'll have to look into what one would end up with such a build.

[rezo]

Remember there is a lot of stuff to get through before you get to end game there tiger. :D

[rezo]

Oh yeah, this is a Challenge build, not cookie cutter build for end game.

[moonprophet]

Hitting things with one weapon is basically tickling them at end-game. It works to about level 10 but beyond that there's not much a point.

This just isn't true. Fighting with two weapons has nothing to do with your ability to hit, or damage output per hit. It does affect the number of attacks possible, and therefore the SPEED with which you can take down a foe. What REALLY matters at end game is doing enough damage per attack and using the right weapon to get past the damage resistance that most end game mobs have.

Keeping all this in mind, if you are going to pass on TWF, you need to consider that it will take you longer to defeat any given monster, and you would be advised to compensate for that with tactics, good twitch skills, REAL high AC, displacement, fortification, massive numbers of hit points and self-healing, ect....

Another truth is that most TWF are also using most, if not all of the damage avoidance techniques listed above.

There are 3 main variables for success in this game (IMHO). They are 1) build 2) gear and 3) the player (ie: tactics and twitch skills). When push comes to shove, spending time developing #3 can make up for any deficiencies with 1 and 2.

Perhapsnost importantly, is doing what you have done prior to posting and deciding what playstyle suits you and what you want out of the game. That being done, the rest of this is academic. You'll be fine with whatever you end up as long as you stay true to the original vision.

[Thrudh]

Substandard I can live with, and the build you've listed is the rough framework I've in mind. Now I'm looking for ways to optimize it. I was uncertain between elf/human since human can get +2 to strength from enhancements, and elves suffer the con penalty, though if I stay out of wizard the displacement will easily make up for that. However by hitting 5 levels of wizard I'll have that displacement without the feats, along with haste, +4 AC from shield if I TWF, along with other tricks (quickened invisibility for example, though I've no idea how that will actually work out).

As for tower shield, it's largely a conceptual thing (far too encumbering) though I don't much care for the attack penalty either. Having said that, I'll carry one around if I need to intimitank for a group.

FYI, the human stat bonuses don't stack... So you can only get +1 to two different stats, not +2 to one stat.

A 15/5 fighter/wizard could be quite fun... I have a 11/5 ranger/wizard myself, and self-cast haste and displacement is very useful (Actually you should go 14/6, so you can get three 3rd level spells - haste, displacement, and rage)

[Thrudh]

How does improved trip/stunning blow work in the level 10-16 adventures?


They still work, just not all the time... but they're free to use... My barbarian has Stunning Blow, and I still hit that key everytime I fight something... The bad guys may only be affected 20% of the time at end-game, but that's still means 20% easier fights(stunned mobs don't attack you, and you get auto-crits on them)

[Aspenor]

You would never make this kind of build.... :)

I suggest an INT of 12, because that leaves the option open.. Combat Expertise (+5 to your AC) has it's uses especially for a Shield-using character, and Improved Trip can be quite useful too. A monster on it's back can't fight back...

This guy is not looking for a max DPS, raid-ready character... Improved Trip and Stunning Blow are fun tactical feats that make playing a fighter fun throughout the game (especially the low-mid levels)

Well, I might make one...if I were to buy a second account (at this point in time...yeah right...).


Why not? Intimidate is pretty useful even outside a raid setting... And since he plans on using a shield, and has plenty of fighter feats, he could even invest a bit in Shield Mastery (for occasional blocking)



You can do okay in end-game with just a single vorpal and a shield... Or a stunning blow, along with a burst weapon for the auto-crits. That self-cast displacement and a decent AC helps a lot.

He can always pull out a two-hander for DPS on the end-boss...

He gave us his parameters, he can do okay even inside those limits...

Probably true, but you know me and how I build and play...:cool:


This just isn't true. Fighting with two weapons has nothing to do with your ability to hit, or damage output per hit. It does affect the number of attacks possible, and therefore the SPEED with which you can take down a foe. What REALLY matters at end game is doing enough damage per attack and using the right weapon to get past the damage resistance that most end game mobs have.


You've misinterpreted what I was saying. Even bypassing DR isn't necessarily going to be enough if you're getting pounded into the dirt with only an average armor class and using only one hand. You're better off using two hands, putting out more damage, and having a poor armor class.

These are, of course...just my opinions on the matter. I think the displacement dragonmarks should suffice as far as defensive measures go.

[Thrudh]

These are, of course...just my opinions on the matter.

Oh, they are more than opinions... TWF is a better build, because it's more offensive, and can be more defensive too (#1 DDO is currently unbalanced because TWF can get AC close to or even better than Shield users, #2 Killing faster also means less time for the bad guys to hit you - i.e. "Best defense is a good offense")


I think the displacement dragonmarks should suffice as far as defensive measures go.

Yes, a pure elf fighter will do fine... Maybe start like this... (28-point build)

16 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
8 WIS
8 CHA

This gives you the option of re-speccing to TWF someday if you decide to (with a +3 DEX tome)

[Shroonith]

how about 8ftr/6rng/6mnk?

[Darlor]

how about 8ftr/6rng/6mnk?

Evasion, automatic stabilization, disease immunity, slowfall, TWF, improved TWF, 10% increased attack speed, a 2nd tier monk stance and more skill points/choices granted by splashing 12 levels of ranger/monk.

Lot of merits to the build but would lose a lot of proficiency with my sword(s). Too much I feel.


I'm now leaning towards an elven strength based pure fighter. After realizing that the dragonmarks give invisibility, displacement, and shadowwalk, it seems to me that these abilities are largely why I would splash 5 levels of wizard in the first place.

Still open to suggestions however - less obvious feat choices, minor class splashes (10% attack speed is nice but not particularly important to the idea behind the build), beginning stat distribution, etc.

[Shroonith]

Wait till weapon:ki longsword. [You are centered when using a longsword].

BTW: if u want a challenge, play this build with no Feather Falling. Lots of fun.

Stats: (untomed, and very tentative)
16+5lvl+2ftr+2rng+6item+1DT(tempest)or GS or alch pot: 32
18+2rng+2elf+6item:28
12
8
14+2mnk+6item:22
8

Feats: 7 normal 3mnk 5ftr
WF:slash
WS:slash
IC:slash
dodge
mobility
spring attack
power attack
toughness
GTWF
OTWF
GWF:slash
TWD
Extend
**Weapon Ki: Longsword**
**Free Feat**

AC:
10base
4icy
8bracer
5prot
2mnk
9dex
6wis
1alch
1dodge
4insight
3bark pot
2tempest
1twd
3chat
1haste
----
60AC
----
+1-2 (dex tome)
+1-2 (wis tome)
+1 stance
+2real bark
+2shield clicky/wand
+5paly
+4bard
+2recitation
----
80AC
(you could mess around with starting stats and greensteel exceptional bonuses to get this higher)

Important Enhancements:
FTR STR II [lvl6]
Kensai I - Longsword [lvl6]
Fighter Weapon Spec (enhancement) - longsword [lvl8]
FTR Haste Boost III [lvl7]
RNG DEX II [lvl6]
Tempest I [lvl6]
RNG Sprint Boost I [lvl1]
MNK WIS II [lvl6]
Elf DEX II [lvl8]
Elf Melee Attack II [lvl10]
Elf Melee Damage II [lvl7]

This char will have self haste from tempest and wind stance and haste boost. movespeed from mnk and sprint boost. evasion, great saves, great longsword use.

[Darlor]

hmm you make quite a tempting case. Surprised that they're adding the longsword as a monk weapon though.

[Aspenor]

hmm you make quite a tempting case. Surprised that they're adding the longsword as a monk weapon though.

That is only a rumor and is not certain. The feat was erroneously posted in the compendium before release, so we know they, at the minimum, have considered it.

[Vorn]

hmm you make quite a tempting case. Surprised that they're adding the longsword as a monk weapon though.

Could be waiting a very long time for that to ever happen as well.:o

My first character, a 28 point elf pure fighter, is still pretty much my main character (I would pay cash $$ to be able to respec him to a 32 and get a couple of more points of con!). Dropped the shadowmarks after making a permablur/displacement shroud clickie. He's a GP fighter can tank, can gtwf, can even do SoS elite in a no evasion team (just to prove we could do it).

He is not uber but he's got some flex in him to play a few different ways depending upon the group. Did make the switch to khopeshes and dumped the longsword enhancements though.

If we ever get Mod 9 the kensai and lvl 20 speed boost are going to make him even more fun to play.

[Darlor]

Currently level 7 (one bubble away from 8) on a 28 point elven fighter with dragonmarks, and so far the build is working very well. 170 hp, 14 attack bonus with +18 to damage (power attack on), 30 AC without CE, effective intimidate, effective invisibility thanks to high character level from dragonmarks rather than potions/items (saved several wipes with it) and displacement whenever I need it for painful buggers. Topping killing blows over monks, rangers, and other fighters, and can solo just about anything.

Take your monk, ranger, paladin splashes and shove 'em where the sun shines more than it should!