Melee capable Cleric/Monk/?

[Draccus]

I'm not a build expert so I'm hoping for some help from you folks.

I currently have two capped characters, a 16 rogue assassin (dex based) who is geared to the max (5 dual-shard greensteels!) and decimates stuff in melee and a 16 human cleric healbot who is the easiest character in the world to play with 300 hp full heals and BB's doing 240 hp per pass.

I'm looking to make a third character that's kind of a hybrid of the two. Not a hybrid as in Cleric/Rogue but a hybrid of styles. I thought about the typical 14/2 Cleric/Monk build that you see all over the forums but most of those are focused on good healing with higher survivability. I'm looking for a bit of a different build in that I want good offensive casting, OK healing (mainly self), and good melee offense.

Can this be done with a cleric/monk? Cleric/Rogue? Cleric/Monk/Rogue?

I'm thinking it would have to be a str build with high dex and wisdom as well. Kamas would probably be the weapon of choice but, again, I don't know anything other than the cleric or rogue side so I'm not sure.

EDITED: I have 32 point builds available and will play any race but warforged.

[Erend]

Dwarves have bonus spell points due to race, as well as constitution and toughness improvement. Given the fact you have 32 pt builds, you could start with max wis, decent str and con. At lvl 3 you will have availability of Bulls and Bears so that will help with the fighting until you reach high enough lvl to use +5 or +6 items, depending on your base str. By the time you can cast lvl4 spells you can use divine power for the extra hp´s, extra +6 str and BAB of a lvl equivalent fighter.If you don´t feel like blowing clerical feats on alternate weapons, Doldorn´s champion will give you use of long swords.
If you want broader weapon availability then you can play around with splashing 2 ranger lvls which will give you TWF, STR to bow etc. Or 2 lvs of fighter for the 3 feats plus both splahes will give you martial weapon availability.
Downside to dwarven builds, charisma isn´t good at all, so dvd´s are practically out of the question and turn undead is used mainly for Doldorn´s (at 6th lvl unyielding sovereignity rocks).

That is basically some of the best non-healbot builds ive seen. And I say "non-healbot" because I dont believe in the "Combat cleric/Healbot" denominations. Cleric is a class meant to be versatile. Fight when you need to help out with the fighting. Heal when you need to help out keeping peeps alive, buff to support your party.

Cheers!

[Noctus]

Elf:
Make use of the racial weapon enhancements and given weapon profs, as well of Dorn´s Champion.

If you also want a good defence without having to grind for AC stuff, take the 2 Shadowmarks and be Perma-Displaced. As you will take Extend anyway for your own selfbuffs.

[Shroonith]

Try an 11CLR/6RNG/3MNK TWF Kama User

Race: Halfling (though human would be good too)

Stats: (tentative)
12
18+1lvl+2halfling+2rng+1GS+6item+4tome: 34
14
8
16+4lvl+3clr+3GS+6item+4tome+2stance:38
8

feats: (7norm 2mnk)
dodge
mobility

spring attack
extend
empower healing
weapon finesse
GTWF
toughness
power attack or two weapon defense

Weapons: GS: [??? / +1dex / +4insight] and [??? / +1wis / +2wis]

Strength of this build is Ki Healing, which benefits from your CLR healing enhancements. You will be throwing out Crit Ki heals to the party for upwards of 150. You will comfortably sit in the high 60s low 70s AC, with amazing saves, evasion etc. With kamas and tempest I you will have great ki generation, allowing you to keep walk of the sun and align the heavens up on your party and contantly spam ki healing, then patch up after the fights.

[Draccus]

Thanks for the suggestions. In any of these builds, would you take the cleric or the monk/ranger/fighter level first?

[Shroonith]

RNG, as it gets the most skill points/lvl

[Noctus]

Always the class that gives the most skillpoints.

here: Ranger.

[Draccus]

I think I've going to give the Cleric/Monk a try. Having never even thought about a monk, I do have some questions about how the build works.

- I want the minimum cleric levels I need to cast bladebarrier. I think my pure cleric got BB at level 11, is that right?

- If that is correct, then I'll end up as an 11 cleric/5 Monk at level 16 (assuming Mod9 is an urban legend). What's 5 Monk do for me?

- What about monk weapons? I was thinking kamas would be fun since they wouldn't require a feat but folks in guild chat laughed when I suggested using kamas. Would it be worth it to take Khopeshes? I have a bank page full of good khopeshes so that would be a plus but I think I lose some AC, right?

[Junts]

I think I've going to give the Cleric/Monk a try. Having never even thought about a monk, I do have some questions about how the build works.

- I want the minimum cleric levels I need to cast bladebarrier. I think my pure cleric got BB at level 11, is that right?

- If that is correct, then I'll end up as an 11 cleric/5 Monk at level 16 (assuming Mod9 is an urban legend). What's 5 Monk do for me?

- What about monk weapons? I was thinking kamas would be fun since they wouldn't require a feat but folks in guild chat laughed when I suggested using kamas. Would it be worth it to take Khopeshes? I have a bank page full of good khopeshes so that would be a plus but I think I lose some AC, right?


Rocka has an awesome 14/2 cle/monk battlecleric twf strength based with khopesh build (Fanfare), I advise you ask her about it .. it works wonderfully. The extra monk levels after 2 are not particularly helpful (2 feats you dont need, and the other abilities aren't helpful, the extra sp+spells are more useful).

My warning:

This kind of hybrid character -really- needs crafted items, if you make one, expect to need to dump 60-72 larges into it immediately (48 for weapons, and an accessory as soon as you cap), or it will probably be a very poor character until you do.

[valorik]

I think I've going to give the Cleric/Monk a try. Having never even thought about a monk, I do have some questions about how the build works.

- I want the minimum cleric levels I need to cast bladebarrier. I think my pure cleric got BB at level 11, is that right?

- If that is correct, then I'll end up as an 11 cleric/5 Monk at level 16 (assuming Mod9 is an urban legend). What's 5 Monk do for me?

- What about monk weapons? I was thinking kamas would be fun since they wouldn't require a feat but folks in guild chat laughed when I suggested using kamas. Would it be worth it to take Khopeshes? I have a bank page full of good khopeshes so that would be a plus but I think I lose some AC, right?

only use kamas when you're casting they are horrible dps weapons, and only worthwhile for real monks.

Use either khopeshes, or go elf and use longswords, 5 monk does very little, but I always thought you hated monk splashes, so if you go that deep into being a monk you might be best off with unarmed. Ind mod 9 going 12/8 for warpriest 2 and 1d10 unarmed dice, goign unarmed for melee may be your best option.

[Junts]

I just want to reiterate this one, Drac:

On a build that's str based and also starting with enough dex for twf, you are going to have terrible wisdom and after the necessary evasion/feat monk levels (2), sacrificing further cleric levels will so completely gimp your sp pool that you will not be able to function as a reliable party healer if necessary with 5-8 monk; you're gonna be a build that ends up with 22-24 wisdom, and have no room for mental toughness feats (you're working in khopesh and the twf chain after all), and even with shroud sp item etc you're probably going to top out at ~1300 sp at 14 cle / monk 2. Every monk level will cost you ~75 more sp or so on average, and that number is both with 150 shroud sp and an archmagi item .. without those you're quickly falling down to 1000 or even below and that's just not going to be enough.

[Draccus]

I just want to reiterate this one, Drac:

On a build that's str based and also starting with enough dex for twf, you are going to have terrible wisdom and after the necessary evasion/feat monk levels (2), sacrificing further cleric levels will so completely gimp your sp pool that you will not be able to function as a reliable party healer if necessary with 5-8 monk; you're gonna be a build that ends up with 22-24 wisdom, and have no room for mental toughness feats (you're working in khopesh and the twf chain after all), and even with shroud sp item etc you're probably going to top out at ~1300 sp at 14 cle / monk 2. Every monk level will cost you ~75 more sp or so on average, and that number is both with 150 shroud sp and an archmagi item .. without those you're quickly falling down to 1000 or even below and that's just not going to be enough.

Curse you Junts (and others) with your detailed, extensive game knowledge and powerful, tight logic! Curse you all!

Ok, scrapping the idea. Good thing I didn't dump any tomes on this guy. I hate alts anyway ;)

[Junts]

Curse you Junts (and others) with your detailed, extensive game knowledge and powerful, tight logic! Curse you all!

Ok, scrapping the idea. Good thing I didn't dump any tomes on this guy. I hate alts anyway ;)

Nah man Fanfare is a -great- build .. you just want 2 monk. I really strongly advise you look into Rocka's plan and check it out, its an excellent character. Just be raedy to invest something in it (*** else are you gonna do with your larges, anyway? I mean, you're done crafting for dresek). I played the toon a bit last weekend messing around, and its excellent and totally worth your investment.

It's just important to make sure you don't compromise yourself too badly; hybrid builds are awesome, but you have to be careful not to gimp yourself in making them.

[Junts]

Here drac, make this:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166648


trust me.


Fan's version dropped Oversized TWF for Khopesh for the higher dps output. A drow version with rapier/dagger would also work, though it'd be a bit lower dps/hp in return for much better stat damaging/to hit (to hit is something you want to watch on these kinds of builds)

[Draccus]

OK, I'll give it a shot. Like Valorik mentioned above, I'm not a fan of splash builds (1-2 levels of a class just for free TWF or evasion or whatever) which is why I typically go straight class. That's why I was thinking of more monk levels than 2 so instead of being a Cleric with a splash of monk, he'd be a true Cleric Monk. Maybe a pure monk would be more my style but I already have a character who can't get into raids ;)

[Junts]

The problem with splashing that heavily on a cleric is that the sp/spell slot/spell damage costs are considerable (remember, bb is 1d6 per level up to level 15, so an 11 cle is only 11d6 vs the 15d6 of a full cleric, and thats in base damage .. reduce your full cleric's damage output by ~25% on bb and ask yourself if you'd enjoy that).

The monk levels are evaison and feats (though this kind of build could also have a nice ac if set up for that, since it has dex/wisdom etc, what it really is is a very nice dps output character that can effectively heal (if it really has to) and very effectively secondary-heal.

I would follow Rocka's layout exactly except for Khopesh for otwf (you wont really twf until like level 10ish, s/b is better than twfing at low levels), and it will take some work to get your to-hit up when you are twfing before greensteel: you aren't going to use +1 and +2 weapons without thinking about it on this kind of build the way a rogue or fighter does, because your to-hit is already borderline. This is the kinda build that wants to use a +5 weapon at lv 8 instead of a +1 holy burst becuase it will hit a lot less with the burster.

Once you get to cap and get your strength in place, enough sp to use divine power/favor all the time, and greensteel weapons (the +5 becomes a really big deal), those issues pretty much go away.

[valorik]

OK, I'll give it a shot. Like Valorik mentioned above, I'm not a fan of splash builds (1-2 levels of a class just for free TWF or evasion or whatever) which is why I typically go straight class. That's why I was thinking of more monk levels than 2 so instead of being a Cleric with a splash of monk, he'd be a true Cleric Monk. Maybe a pure monk would be more my style but I already have a character who can't get into raids ;)

is it just me or is our guild about to be full up on battle clerics? :D

[Anthios888]

Hey, the only thing about the build is you have to do the cleric level first, or the feats won't stack right. I will make Fan update the build post this afternoon to reflect the updates made after the process of leveling and playing it.

[Draccus]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

I started this guy last night and did the Monk level first so I'll have to start him over. Ugh...more of that smarmy narrator and Misery's Peak lever-pulling extravaganza. Man, I HATE Korthos Island.

[Anthios888]

Sorry Dresek, I updated the original post to be as current as I can remember. Will have Fan chime in later.

[Shroonith]

Dracc, try the char i posted tomeless if u have a free char spot. Im rolling something VERY similar to it and am enjoying it immensely.

3mnk gets you light path and mnk movement speed.
with a 12str base, 6 from divine power, 2 from rams, you can sit at a 20str, which is decent for a finesse build. youll have a 30dex(untomed unstanced), for a solid to-hit. +2 damage from rams, +6FE damage vs 2 enemies, +3 from divine favor +8halfling. Youll have heal, bladebarrier, and tempest. Youll have a great WIS for a solid DC to your spells. If you are not too worried about A grade DPS this build's great. Youll be surprised how rarely you need to heal using if your using your ki-healing.

with +40% enhancement from cleric, 50% from a superior devotion item your base ki heal at 20 will be:
11d4(based of CHAR lvl not MNK lvl - Ive tested extensively)*1.4*1.5: 57.75 average.
with a 9% x2 crit from enhancement and another 9% and .5x from item youll have an 18% chance to ki heal for 144 average. Beyond that, simply putting curse of healing on a target is an underrated boon.

[Junts]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

I started this guy last night and did the Monk level first so I'll have to start him over. Ugh...more of that smarmy narrator and Misery's Peak lever-pulling extravaganza. Man, I HATE Korthos Island.


then skip it, it isnt required: tell jeets to let you skip the tutorial, walk to the boat and get off

remake it with cle as lv 1, monk 2, and monk atl ike 5ish for the evasion and you will be a happy camper.

[Phidius]

...
I'm looking for a bit of a different build in that I want good offensive casting, OK healing (mainly self), and good melee offense.
...

I'm not a build expert either, but I thought I'd try my hand at it.

I tried to incorporate all the things you asked for.

1. Went halfling to get some halfling guile for backstabbing damage, extra dex, ac, saves, etc... Human might get more mileage out of the extra feat and skills though.
2. Could always switch out Power Attack if you find you always keep PA off in order to hit, especially without OTWF.
3. Took one less than max wisdom to pump up strength and dex - eat a +3 wisdom tome at level 20 to keep an even wisdom score.
4. Took Heighten for better spell DCs, but could only fit in one Spell Pen feat. Maybe swap Improved Crit for a Spell Pen 2 once you get Mineral 2s.
5. Waited so long to take 1st monk level to make use of S&B while I could - when leveling Fradul and Stryde, I found it took this long for the wisdom bonus to get close to the armor + shield.
6. GTWF at level 18


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vermin
Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(2 Monk \ 14 Cleric)
Hit Points: 234 + extra from other stuff
Spell Points: 914 + extra from other stuff
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 13 base + 6 stat + 2 HoGF + 1 ritual + 5 item + 1 race AP = 28 + 4 GH = 32
Reflex: 8 base + 7 stat + 2 HoGF + 1 ritual + 5 item + 3 race AP = 26 + 4 GH = 30 + 1 vs traps = 31 vs traps
Will: 13 base + 11 stat + 2 HoGF + 1 ritual + 5 item + 1 race AP = 33 + 4 GH = 37

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 13 16 + 6 item/DP = 22
Dexterity 15 19 + 5 item = 24
Constitution 14 16 + 6 = 22
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 17 26 + 6 = 32
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 12
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 2 14 + other stuff
Concentration 6 21 + other stuff

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Level 2 (Cleric)
Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Level 4 (Cleric)
Level 5 (Cleric)
Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Level 7 (Cleric)
Level 8 (Cleric)
Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Level 11 (Cleric)
Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 13 (Cleric)
Level 14 (Cleric)
Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I

[Anthios888]

then skip it, it isnt required: tell jeets to let you skip the tutorial, walk to the boat and get off

remake it with cle as lv 1, monk 2, and monk atl ike 5ish for the evasion and you will be a happy camper.

I personally take monk at 4 after you get soundburst :)

[maddmatt70]

Everybody always jumps into the 2 monk 14 cleric builds, but really 1 monk 15 cleric is a better offensive caster cleric. It sounds like you must have max wisdom of 18 with level ups into wis, then make sure your strength is not a dump stat and con is not either of course. I would consider having the capability to have a decent cha so you can divine might yourself. My first question is twf or some other combat style? Human is a better choice if you want to do a non twf combat style that is an offensive spell casting cleric..

[Devastation]

Try an 11CLR/6RNG/3MNK TWF Kama User

Race: Halfling (though human would be good too)

Stats: (tentative)
12
18+1lvl+2halfling+2rng+1GS+6item+4tome: 34
14
8
16+4lvl+3clr+3GS+6item+4tome+2stance:38
8

feats: (7norm 2mnk)
dodge
mobility

spring attack
extend
empower healing
weapon finesse
GTWF
toughness
power attack or two weapon defense

Weapons: GS: [??? / +1dex / +4insight] and [??? / +1wis / +2wis]

Strength of this build is Ki Healing, which benefits from your CLR healing enhancements. You will be throwing out Crit Ki heals to the party for upwards of 150. You will comfortably sit in the high 60s low 70s AC, with amazing saves, evasion etc. With kamas and tempest I you will have great ki generation, allowing you to keep walk of the sun and align the heavens up on your party and contantly spam ki healing, then patch up after the fights.

Ok looking to build this, but wondering why you took the 6 ranger levels and not 6 more levels of monk? Is Tempest that good? Or are there other reasons?

[Noctus]

Ok looking to build this, but wondering why you took the 6 ranger levels and not 6 more levels of monk? Is Tempest that good? Or are there other reasons?


Simply put:
"Monk sucks" vs. "Tempest rocks"

[Devastation]

Try an 11CLR/6RNG/3MNK TWF Kama User

Race: Halfling (though human would be good too)

Stats: (tentative)
12
18+1lvl+2halfling+2rng+1GS+6item+4tome: 34
14
8
16+4lvl+3clr+3GS+6item+4tome+2stance:38
8

feats: (7norm 2mnk)
dodge
mobility

spring attack
extend
empower healing
weapon finesse
GTWF
toughness
power attack or two weapon defense

Weapons: GS: [??? / +1dex / +4insight] and [??? / +1wis / +2wis]

Strength of this build is Ki Healing, which benefits from your CLR healing enhancements. You will be throwing out Crit Ki heals to the party for upwards of 150. You will comfortably sit in the high 60s low 70s AC, with amazing saves, evasion etc. With kamas and tempest I you will have great ki generation, allowing you to keep walk of the sun and align the heavens up on your party and contantly spam ki healing, then patch up after the fights.

Ok so I built a this and currently I'm not able to put a healing curse on Harry in Part 4 or 5. I know I was able to before update 3.... did they make him immune to it or is it bugged?

[Anthios888]

Harry, like his friends Nytherios and Horoth, has always been immune to curse.

[Devastation]

Harry, like his friends Nytherios and Horoth, has always been immune to curse.

So they fixed him because I used to be able to place the healing curse on him.... thanks for the reply.