Rogue 2/ Ranger 2/ Bard 16

[AZ1JoeT]

I am very new to the game, but I see that there is considerable wisdom in the community-- so I am reaching out.

I recently "unlocked" Drow, and have rolled a couple of toons. My first was a paladin, but now I have tried more of a support class. I initially thought to splash a few levels of rogue into bard so I could handle traps, but I wanted to be able to fight a bit, too. Adding two levels of ranger provides a favored enemy and two-weapon fighting while allowing me to keep move silently and a few other skills high without paying double for them.

I do not need an uber-character. I just want to avoid making a huge mistake.

Basic stats: S 10, D 17, C 10, I 14, W 12, Ch 17
Dex is now 20, and I have a few lowbie "enchanted" bonuses here and there.

He's currently Ranger-2, Rogue-1, Bard-1 and I am about to add another Bard level.

For feats I took Dodge at creation and added Favored Enemy: Undead and Two-Weapon Fighting (free) with the ranger levels, and Weapon Finesse at 3rd level (I think). I also have Evasion (although it is not a feat) from the two rogue levels.

Enhancements:
Ranger - Favored Enemy Damage and Defense, Ranger Dexterity
Rogue - Rogue Haste, Skill Boost, Sneak Attack I, Disable, Search
Bard - Extra Song, Energy of Music
Drow - Melee Damage I (Rapier/Short Sword), Elf Dexterity

Skills: Disable (10), Search (14), Open Locks (9), Hide (11), Move Silently (11)
Perform (8), Concentration (4), UMD (8) [these will get a boost with my next Bard level]
Balance (8), Tumble (11)

I am a little concerned that I may be trying to build him to do more melee and support than he will be capable of, effectively making him poor in both. I do not mind redoing the Enhancements to make him more of a support character (S 10 and C 10 are never going to be very melee-ish), but at what level does that need to happen? Right now he does pretty well moving into battle a couple of seconds behind the tanks and helping out. He's +8 to hit with both weapons (+3 Rapier, +3 Short sword) and constantly gets sneak attack damage. But "right now" he is fighting hobgoblins and ogres. I hear the monsters get a little tougher.

I'd like to find a comfy spot between Spellsinger and Warchanter which would allow me to fight just a little bit, buff the essential spells, and take out the traps.

I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.

[Noctus]

Welcome to DDO.

The RPG where you can truly play your character.




I initially thought to splash a few levels of rogue into bard so I could handle traps,

Perfectly viable.
Start with a good INT, which is easy for Drow, and keep at least Search, Disable and Open Lock maxed out.



but I wanted to be able to fight a bit, too.

A bard can inherently fight very well, no need to splash for that reason. Especially a Drow TWF Rapier+Shortsword and racial weapon enhancements one.




I am a little concerned that I may be trying to build him to do more melee and support than he will be capable of, effectively making him poor in both.

A bard, especially as a Warchanter, can excell at both melee and support. Fight with the tanks and keep the whole group properly buffed up is no problem, although it should be planed from the start to make it easier.
A bards support capabilities are only dependant from his levels in bard, new song, song upgrades and buff spells come naturally with them.



Basic stats: S 10, D 17, C 10, I 14, W 12, Ch 17

Good that you gave the basic stats.
While these stat distribution is not optimal, it is also far from being bad.


(S 10 and C 10 are never going to be very melee-ish),

With these 2 allocations you are better of going for CC-support and off-tanking, once the levels get higher. Standing back and engaging less dangerous critters first.



I'd like to find a comfy spot between Spellsinger and Warchanter

There is none.
Go for one and focus accordingly. But nothing prevents a Fighting-bard (Warchanter) from having excellent buffs and throwing the occasional non-buff spell. As well as forbidding a Spellsinger to melee.
But you should set priorities or you will be cought between the stools. Make either melee of CrowdControl-casting your priority. With the other as a less good, but still usefull bonus for the right occassion.

Spellsinger:
Caster 1st, with some lighter melee capabilites.

Warchanter:
Melee 1st, front line melee fighting, with some occasional CC spells.

Both bring excellent buffs to the party.
the differences in these 2 kinds of bards are in the stat allocation and the taken feats. Also Warchanters often multiclass.



The only problem i see is that your attribute allocation point towards Spellsinger, while your levels are geared towards becoming a good Warchanter.

A Warchanter is fine with multiclassing, while a Spellsinger should have as many bard levels as he can get, avoiding too much deviation from the class that gives him his casting power.




fight just a little bit, buff the essential spells, and take out the traps.


As you want to holdback a bit you would be a good target for the Spellsinger kind of bard, but here the 2 levels of ranger hurt you.

As the levels are already taken i would go Warchanter, concentration from now on on your melee capabilities. Since Warchanters are not really hindered by deeper multiclassing. And Rogue levelsare thus much easier to include into a Warchanter.

So you should go for 4 Rogue / 2 Ranger / 10 Bard.
Taking 2 levels of Bard, then 1 level of Rogue in iteration to be able to invest the Rogue level´s skillpoints almost completly into trapskills which otherwise would be expensive to buy on bard levels.


P.S.
it is possible to have a bard with full group buffing capabilities, who can deal with all the traps and fight with the melees in the front rank on equal footing. (I have one as my main ;) )

While your stat distribution is hindering to that ultimate goal, you will be able to develop your current bard into a enjoyable and fun build. No need to reroll to become Der Überbarde.

You will become a good buffer with melee fighting capabilities and a rogue-ish streak. Trap solving and good sneak attack potential (2d6 + 6 extra damage if they arent watching)

[Noctus]

Nearly forgot the Feats to take:
- Finess
- Weapon Focus:Piercing (Warchanter)
- Power Attack (Warchanter)
- TWF (for free from Ranger)
- ITWF
- GTWF
- Thoughness

[- IC:Piercing at 18th level once the cap goes up]

GTWF over IC:Piercing as you are a DEX build with sneak attack capabilities. More attacks are more damaging as some more crits, whose added damage is not so high.

[Gadget2775]

I build a toon with the same intentions...Still play it today but found that I just didnn't have enough HP to take a beating at higher levels so I respec'ed for Repeating X-Bows and have a blast.

Currently have 178 HP w/a +6 con item. Could gain 150'ish with
30 GLF
19 Toughness
19 Minos
20 Racial Enhancement
45 Shroud item
16 +2 Con tome
---------------
149 + 178 = 324...Viable but as I said a bit squishier than I prefere my melee toons.

12 Bard/2 Ranger/2 Rogue...
First number is current base (with level ups), second is standing stats
08/15 Str (+1 Tome)
18/28 Dex (+1 Tome)
10/16 Con
18/26 Int (+2 Tome)
08/16 Wis
19/30 Cha (+2 Tome)

[rover223]

It's possible to make this build. I would go with an elf to get the bow and sword/rapier bonuses. I would recommend a dex build with appropriate feats and enchancements. Are you going to be a roguing bard or just taking the rogue for the evasion? Rogueing sucks up a lot of skill points, so unless you have a stack of tomes to throw on a beginning toon I would caution you on splitting his abilities up. If you decide to go this route, you will need to take the spell penetration enhancements, and a feat. I suggest you start with a 16 chr, dex and 14 con to start, wisdom will suffer, if you're not roguing then int isn't as needed. good luck.

[maddmatt70]

I am very new to the game, but I see that there is considerable wisdom in the community-- so I am reaching out.

I recently "unlocked" Drow, and have rolled a couple of toons. My first was a paladin, but now I have tried more of a support class. I initially thought to splash a few levels of rogue into bard so I could handle traps, but I wanted to be able to fight a bit, too. Adding two levels of ranger provides a favored enemy and two-weapon fighting while allowing me to keep move silently and a few other skills high without paying double for them.

I do not need an uber-character. I just want to avoid making a huge mistake.

Basic stats: S 10, D 17, C 10, I 14, W 12, Ch 17
Dex is now 20, and I have a few lowbie "enchanted" bonuses here and there.

He's currently Ranger-2, Rogue-1, Bard-1 and I am about to add another Bard level.

For feats I took Dodge at creation and added Favored Enemy: Undead and Two-Weapon Fighting (free) with the ranger levels, and Weapon Finesse at 3rd level (I think). I also have Evasion (although it is not a feat) from the two rogue levels.

Enhancements:
Ranger - Favored Enemy Damage and Defense, Ranger Dexterity
Rogue - Rogue Haste, Skill Boost, Sneak Attack I, Disable, Search
Bard - Extra Song, Energy of Music
Drow - Melee Damage I (Rapier/Short Sword), Elf Dexterity

Skills: Disable (10), Search (14), Open Locks (9), Hide (11), Move Silently (11)
Perform (8), Concentration (4), UMD (8) [these will get a boost with my next Bard level]
Balance (8), Tumble (11)

I am a little concerned that I may be trying to build him to do more melee and support than he will be capable of, effectively making him poor in both. I do not mind redoing the Enhancements to make him more of a support character (S 10 and C 10 are never going to be very melee-ish), but at what level does that need to happen? Right now he does pretty well moving into battle a couple of seconds behind the tanks and helping out. He's +8 to hit with both weapons (+3 Rapier, +3 Short sword) and constantly gets sneak attack damage. But "right now" he is fighting hobgoblins and ogres. I hear the monsters get a little tougher.

I'd like to find a comfy spot between Spellsinger and Warchanter which would allow me to fight just a little bit, buff the essential spells, and take out the traps.

I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.

You are going to reroll this build. Its o.k. for new players it happens. You just do not have enough hp (con) to truely melee at end game. Your charisma and multi-class levels makes its difficult for ccing as you go up in levels. My advice is keep playing your character for awhile longer figure out what you like and reroll with a character that specializes in melee or cc/healing.

[Thrudh]

If you want to do traps, spells, and a bit of melee, I'd suggest 16/4 bard/rogue... The extra sneak attack damage is better than the ranger favored enemy (although you'd miss out on the free TWF feat)

Still, 4 levels of rogue would make it easy to keep your trap skills maxed... and the sneak attack damage is pretty good... 2d6 + 4 (rogue enhancements). Get a Radiance II rapier someday and Tharnes goggles (another +8 to sneak attack damage) and you'll do very well as an off-tank

You'd have to play like a rogue, and avoid aggro, at least until you got a Radiance II rapier

I'd go drow... and probably drop your wisdom back to 8, and bump your STR and CON to 12 each...

Of course I'm biased... because I have a 13/3 bard/rogue right now that is planning to go 16/4 at cap... but my guy is quite capable at melee, backup healing, and of course, he can get any trap in the game (including Cabal Elite)

Feats:
Toughness
Weapon Finesse
TWF
ITWF
Improved Critical: Pierce
Maximize
GTWF (at 18)

Note that he was quite good at Crowd Control through Gianthold... Once the bad guys got Spell Resistance and immunities though, he quit messing with that, and sticks with melee, healing, and traps.

Good luck to you