Thanimal
05-15-2009, 11:32 AM
(non-power gamer build)
EDIT: Ironically, some realizations and great feedback since I published this has made me think this build may be a very solid power-gamer build as well. It's turned out this path is capable of getting several more points of AC and a better Intimidate score, so even though its DPS is considerably less than the Khopesh wielding build linked below, it's arguably a more "legitimate" Intimitank and it still has pretty sweet DPS (for an intimitank).
Introduction:
For a while now I've been chasing a high DPS build that can *actually* hit tank-like AC with pretty decent saves and Evasion, without switching to a low-DPS setup with Shield and/or CE. While I can't claim "victory," I've finally gotten close enough that I think it's worth publishing this.
But first, some caveats:
- I have not built this. All of my evaluation is from analysis.
- This build is aimed at "serious" players but NON-power-gamers. It gives up quite a lot of DPS compared to what is possible when the build can assume insane equipment to help it reach AC and save marks needed for tanking. I've also designed a conceptually similar build for power-gamers. Power gamers please click here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182667
- This is not a *true* DPS build -- it's primary function is Intimitank.
- This build does not even qualify for Combat Expertise, and will never use a Shield (at least at higher levels). The whole idea is to maintain good DPS even while Intimitanking.
- The intimidate score here is a bit of an afterthought. Intimidate is used on crowds, but against bosses this build holds aggro from the combination of DPS and Hate. My math suggests there is no build in the game that can (unintentionally) permanently hold aggro from this guy (decent base DPS then adds +50% hate in stance and 4d6+6 Sneak Attack kicks in if aggro is lost).
- This build is NOT a trap-monkey, but there is room to just barely maintain the key skills so that most traps and locks can be handled with a little help from items and buffs.
Background:
As a general rule, I feel Intimitanks need somewhat of a dual-role -- in other words they need something useful to do in cases where Intimidating is not required, or there is another Intimitank in the party, or they are at the bottom of the level range of the party and can't quite take the heat. In that case, this build offers good DPS potential by tacking Sneak Attack on top of decent dual-Kukri Power Attack base. As a handy sidelight, it also can do some traps and locks.
Next, here's a few questions I anticipate:
Why so much Rogue? Amazingly, no other class can compete with the AC potential of Rogue. Not only do you get 3 points of DEX, but you get minutes worth of +6 AC from Uncanny Dodge, and bursts of 2 more from Showtime. The sneak-attack also is a boon for "DPS mode" and for reclaiming boss aggro if the 50% hate bonus isn't enough.
Why 12/6/2 rather than 13/6/1? This build is on the hairy edge of enough AC for a true intimitanking, so the 1 point from Monk 2 matters. The feat is handy, but turns out to be less critical on this build than the power-gamer version.
And so finally the build!
28-point
Warforged Rogue (Acrobat) 8/Fighter (Defender) 6/Monk 2 (after cap goes up: 12/6/2)
STR 15 + 1 Tome + 2 fighter + 6 item = 24
DEX 15 + 2 Tome + 3 Rogue + 4 bumps + 6 item = 30
INT 10
CON 10 + 2 WF + 6 item = 18
WIS 14 + 1 Tome + 1 Monk + 6 item = 24
CHA 6
NOTES:
- By 20, figure on a +2 WIS Tome and put the final stat bump there, too, reaching WIS 26.
- For the non-power-gamer audience, I wasn't willing to assume in a +1 Tome at level 1, but if you have one that lets you start at INT 9/CON 11, which is noticeably better.
- If you have 32-point build, I suggest putting it all into CON and starting at 14.
Feats
Fighter bonus: Weapon Finesse, Focus: Slashing, Specialization: Slashing, Dodge
Monk bonus: Toughness, Power Attack
Base: TWF, iTWF, gTWF, iCrit: Slashing, SF: Intimidate, Bullheaded, TWD
Rogue Bonus Feat (above current cap): Slippery Mind. (Feel free to take something else here, but personally nothing ****es me off more than a failed Will save, and the difference between 1/20 and 1/400 is HUGE.)
Tough to decide which feats waits all the way to 18, but I think it's SF: Intimidate.
DPS
I'm not going to exactly quantify it, but let me just list key things toward DPS:
Fully enhanced PA (-8/+8) always on
Weapon Specialization
dual-weilding Kukri
STR 24 (26 in Defender stance)
+25% Rogue Haste Boost
4d6+6 Sneak attack if not Intimidating
As mentioned above, this DPS is not amazing, but my analysis shows it's "significant" -- tough to beat on a legit intimitank without uber equipment. And if somebody else is doing the Intimidating, then Sneak Attack is niiiice.
AC @ 16 (without heavy farming)
10 base
9 DT docent
10 dex
7 wisdom
1 Monk
1 alchemical
2 Chaosgarde
1 Dodge
1 TWD
1 Defender
2 Defender stance
5 deflection
4 Shield (UMDed from wand)
1 Haste
3 Barkskin
---
58 "sustainable self-buff"
6 Improved Uncanny Dodge (2:30 of this per est even at current cap; eventually 4 minutes)
2 Showtime
---
66 "self-buff when needed"
Party help
+2 Recitation
+2 Bark
+5 aura
+4 Bard Song
---
79 "very optimistic"
So this AC is borderline for Intimitanking in elite raids. But it's intimitank-worthy for a LOT of the game's content, including end-game raids on Normal (with a little help from your friends). If you someday want to tank Elite raids, you'll have to farm up a +3 Dodge bonus and a +4 Insight Kukri.
Enhancements (through 20)
12 Rogue Dex III
6 Rogue Haste Boost III
1 Rogue Faster Sneaking I (acrobat prereq)
3 Rogue Tumble II (acrobat prereq)
3 Rogue Balance II (acrobat prereq)
6 Rogue Acrobat II
3 Fighter Intim II
1 Fighter Armor Boost I (defender prereq)
4 Stalwart Defender I
6 WF PA III
3 WF Toughness II
3 Fighter Toughness II
6 Fighter STR II
6 WF CON II
2 Monk WIS I
3 Rogue Skill Boost II [gonna be a not-so-good trapmonkey and like it]
3 Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
1 Monk Way of the Intimidate Bonus I
2 WF Healer's Friend I
3 WF Hardiness II
3 WF Construct Thinking II
---
80
So that hurt a bit. But when a build is trying to do a lot of things well, the more expensive tiers of enhancements often can't fit. Everything truly critical to the build has made it.
Saves @ 16 (without heavy farming
Monk 2: 3/3/3
Fighter 6: 5/2/2
Rogue 8: 2/6/2
Stats: 4/10/7
GH: 4/4/4
Resist: 5/5/5
Luck: 1/1/1
Defender Stance: 1/1/1
Bullheaded: 0/0/1
Enhancements: 2/0/2
---
27/32/28
"Good enough" I think. Note that 32-point build has 29/32/28 due to higher CON.
Intim score
19 ranks
13 item (15's are really only available to power-gamers)
1 Monk enh
2 Fighter enh
2 Defender enh
3 SF: Intim
2 Bullheaded
-2 CHA
4 GH
1 luck
2 Bard song
---
47
As previously noted, this is only "OK." Against guys that are tough to Intimidate, we rely on DPS+Hate to hold aggro, with Sneak Attack kicking in to reclaim it if somebody can maintain 150% of this build's DPS.
Skills
Intimidate: 19 (full) ranks.
UMD: 19 (full) ranks.
Search: 18 ranks.
Spot: 16 ranks. (CAREFUL! You need to put ALL of your Monk skill points into Spot, so don't take Monk 1 until 7 or later nor Monk 2 until 13 or later. That's even true if you abandon Spot and go for Jump instead.)
Disable: 18 ranks.
Open Lock: 4 ranks (taken at Rogue 1)
Jump: 4 ranks (taken at Rogue 1)
Note: No points are available for Balance, but at level 20 we suddenly don't care b/c of Knockdown Immunity from Rogue Acrobat II. So we just rely on decent DEX until then.
Note: Because the last 4 levels are all Rogue, we'll be able to "fix" these skills up above current cap. Those 32 points will allow final totals of Intim/UMD/Search/Spot/Disable: 23 (full) and Open Lock to 13.
Hit points (without heavy farming)
20: base
48: 8 Rogue
16: 2 Monk
60: 6 Fighter
18: Toughness
40: Toughness Enhancement
20: Improved False Life
20: Minos hat
80: CON bonus (in stance)
---
322
Significantly more is possible with better equipment, but I'm trying to be realistic about a non-power-gamer.
Note that 32-point build has 354 due to higher CON.
Phew, we've made it to the end of the build! What I think I've done here is hit all the minimum bars for Intimitanking (some barely!) while maintaining some truly meaningful DPS while Intimidating. Hope you've found it interesting and thought-provoking!
EDIT: Ironically, some realizations and great feedback since I published this has made me think this build may be a very solid power-gamer build as well. It's turned out this path is capable of getting several more points of AC and a better Intimidate score, so even though its DPS is considerably less than the Khopesh wielding build linked below, it's arguably a more "legitimate" Intimitank and it still has pretty sweet DPS (for an intimitank).
Introduction:
For a while now I've been chasing a high DPS build that can *actually* hit tank-like AC with pretty decent saves and Evasion, without switching to a low-DPS setup with Shield and/or CE. While I can't claim "victory," I've finally gotten close enough that I think it's worth publishing this.
But first, some caveats:
- I have not built this. All of my evaluation is from analysis.
- This build is aimed at "serious" players but NON-power-gamers. It gives up quite a lot of DPS compared to what is possible when the build can assume insane equipment to help it reach AC and save marks needed for tanking. I've also designed a conceptually similar build for power-gamers. Power gamers please click here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182667
- This is not a *true* DPS build -- it's primary function is Intimitank.
- This build does not even qualify for Combat Expertise, and will never use a Shield (at least at higher levels). The whole idea is to maintain good DPS even while Intimitanking.
- The intimidate score here is a bit of an afterthought. Intimidate is used on crowds, but against bosses this build holds aggro from the combination of DPS and Hate. My math suggests there is no build in the game that can (unintentionally) permanently hold aggro from this guy (decent base DPS then adds +50% hate in stance and 4d6+6 Sneak Attack kicks in if aggro is lost).
- This build is NOT a trap-monkey, but there is room to just barely maintain the key skills so that most traps and locks can be handled with a little help from items and buffs.
Background:
As a general rule, I feel Intimitanks need somewhat of a dual-role -- in other words they need something useful to do in cases where Intimidating is not required, or there is another Intimitank in the party, or they are at the bottom of the level range of the party and can't quite take the heat. In that case, this build offers good DPS potential by tacking Sneak Attack on top of decent dual-Kukri Power Attack base. As a handy sidelight, it also can do some traps and locks.
Next, here's a few questions I anticipate:
Why so much Rogue? Amazingly, no other class can compete with the AC potential of Rogue. Not only do you get 3 points of DEX, but you get minutes worth of +6 AC from Uncanny Dodge, and bursts of 2 more from Showtime. The sneak-attack also is a boon for "DPS mode" and for reclaiming boss aggro if the 50% hate bonus isn't enough.
Why 12/6/2 rather than 13/6/1? This build is on the hairy edge of enough AC for a true intimitanking, so the 1 point from Monk 2 matters. The feat is handy, but turns out to be less critical on this build than the power-gamer version.
And so finally the build!
28-point
Warforged Rogue (Acrobat) 8/Fighter (Defender) 6/Monk 2 (after cap goes up: 12/6/2)
STR 15 + 1 Tome + 2 fighter + 6 item = 24
DEX 15 + 2 Tome + 3 Rogue + 4 bumps + 6 item = 30
INT 10
CON 10 + 2 WF + 6 item = 18
WIS 14 + 1 Tome + 1 Monk + 6 item = 24
CHA 6
NOTES:
- By 20, figure on a +2 WIS Tome and put the final stat bump there, too, reaching WIS 26.
- For the non-power-gamer audience, I wasn't willing to assume in a +1 Tome at level 1, but if you have one that lets you start at INT 9/CON 11, which is noticeably better.
- If you have 32-point build, I suggest putting it all into CON and starting at 14.
Feats
Fighter bonus: Weapon Finesse, Focus: Slashing, Specialization: Slashing, Dodge
Monk bonus: Toughness, Power Attack
Base: TWF, iTWF, gTWF, iCrit: Slashing, SF: Intimidate, Bullheaded, TWD
Rogue Bonus Feat (above current cap): Slippery Mind. (Feel free to take something else here, but personally nothing ****es me off more than a failed Will save, and the difference between 1/20 and 1/400 is HUGE.)
Tough to decide which feats waits all the way to 18, but I think it's SF: Intimidate.
DPS
I'm not going to exactly quantify it, but let me just list key things toward DPS:
Fully enhanced PA (-8/+8) always on
Weapon Specialization
dual-weilding Kukri
STR 24 (26 in Defender stance)
+25% Rogue Haste Boost
4d6+6 Sneak attack if not Intimidating
As mentioned above, this DPS is not amazing, but my analysis shows it's "significant" -- tough to beat on a legit intimitank without uber equipment. And if somebody else is doing the Intimidating, then Sneak Attack is niiiice.
AC @ 16 (without heavy farming)
10 base
9 DT docent
10 dex
7 wisdom
1 Monk
1 alchemical
2 Chaosgarde
1 Dodge
1 TWD
1 Defender
2 Defender stance
5 deflection
4 Shield (UMDed from wand)
1 Haste
3 Barkskin
---
58 "sustainable self-buff"
6 Improved Uncanny Dodge (2:30 of this per est even at current cap; eventually 4 minutes)
2 Showtime
---
66 "self-buff when needed"
Party help
+2 Recitation
+2 Bark
+5 aura
+4 Bard Song
---
79 "very optimistic"
So this AC is borderline for Intimitanking in elite raids. But it's intimitank-worthy for a LOT of the game's content, including end-game raids on Normal (with a little help from your friends). If you someday want to tank Elite raids, you'll have to farm up a +3 Dodge bonus and a +4 Insight Kukri.
Enhancements (through 20)
12 Rogue Dex III
6 Rogue Haste Boost III
1 Rogue Faster Sneaking I (acrobat prereq)
3 Rogue Tumble II (acrobat prereq)
3 Rogue Balance II (acrobat prereq)
6 Rogue Acrobat II
3 Fighter Intim II
1 Fighter Armor Boost I (defender prereq)
4 Stalwart Defender I
6 WF PA III
3 WF Toughness II
3 Fighter Toughness II
6 Fighter STR II
6 WF CON II
2 Monk WIS I
3 Rogue Skill Boost II [gonna be a not-so-good trapmonkey and like it]
3 Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
1 Monk Way of the Intimidate Bonus I
2 WF Healer's Friend I
3 WF Hardiness II
3 WF Construct Thinking II
---
80
So that hurt a bit. But when a build is trying to do a lot of things well, the more expensive tiers of enhancements often can't fit. Everything truly critical to the build has made it.
Saves @ 16 (without heavy farming
Monk 2: 3/3/3
Fighter 6: 5/2/2
Rogue 8: 2/6/2
Stats: 4/10/7
GH: 4/4/4
Resist: 5/5/5
Luck: 1/1/1
Defender Stance: 1/1/1
Bullheaded: 0/0/1
Enhancements: 2/0/2
---
27/32/28
"Good enough" I think. Note that 32-point build has 29/32/28 due to higher CON.
Intim score
19 ranks
13 item (15's are really only available to power-gamers)
1 Monk enh
2 Fighter enh
2 Defender enh
3 SF: Intim
2 Bullheaded
-2 CHA
4 GH
1 luck
2 Bard song
---
47
As previously noted, this is only "OK." Against guys that are tough to Intimidate, we rely on DPS+Hate to hold aggro, with Sneak Attack kicking in to reclaim it if somebody can maintain 150% of this build's DPS.
Skills
Intimidate: 19 (full) ranks.
UMD: 19 (full) ranks.
Search: 18 ranks.
Spot: 16 ranks. (CAREFUL! You need to put ALL of your Monk skill points into Spot, so don't take Monk 1 until 7 or later nor Monk 2 until 13 or later. That's even true if you abandon Spot and go for Jump instead.)
Disable: 18 ranks.
Open Lock: 4 ranks (taken at Rogue 1)
Jump: 4 ranks (taken at Rogue 1)
Note: No points are available for Balance, but at level 20 we suddenly don't care b/c of Knockdown Immunity from Rogue Acrobat II. So we just rely on decent DEX until then.
Note: Because the last 4 levels are all Rogue, we'll be able to "fix" these skills up above current cap. Those 32 points will allow final totals of Intim/UMD/Search/Spot/Disable: 23 (full) and Open Lock to 13.
Hit points (without heavy farming)
20: base
48: 8 Rogue
16: 2 Monk
60: 6 Fighter
18: Toughness
40: Toughness Enhancement
20: Improved False Life
20: Minos hat
80: CON bonus (in stance)
---
322
Significantly more is possible with better equipment, but I'm trying to be realistic about a non-power-gamer.
Note that 32-point build has 354 due to higher CON.
Phew, we've made it to the end of the build! What I think I've done here is hit all the minimum bars for Intimitanking (some barely!) while maintaining some truly meaningful DPS while Intimidating. Hope you've found it interesting and thought-provoking!