How to attack as a Two-Handed Barbarian

[Shade]

A common problem two handed barbarians face is the very slow 3rd, 4th and 5th attack animations. But with careful timing and practice, you can avoid ever performing them.

Here is how:
Basicly you want to perform the first attack while moving, followed by the 2nd attack while standing still. To do this you need to move after doing the 2nd attack while standing still, but be sure to move for the next attack - performing a side slash versus a much slower upwards one, and continue the pattern.

Confusing I know. So here is a video of it in action that you can watch and try to emulate: (note this isn't perfect, you can actually do this while not moving at all - by pushing against a mob as you do it, I just couldn't while using Fraps as it causes allot of input lag)
Here's a short 1min video demonstrating how you do the max speed THF attack style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct33ibymD9A&fmt=22

Recorded in HD, on my 16 Barbarian, hasted by my friend Pumpkinator.

For comparison, here is one doing auto attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6R2FkfQlNs&fmt=22

Click on the HD button for best quality.

I tried counting the swings to give some accurate numbers, but eh it's hard. So i'll let you guys count up the swings. I'd guess around 35-40% more swings.

In general using this style your DPS should match if not exceed a similarly equiped TWF barbarian. The only drawback is no bonus to hit, so you need a great strength and high +weapon to perform this well in some cases. If you do find yourself missing allot, sometimes using the third/4th attack is worthwhile, but rarely the 5th.
The only time you should use the 5th is to gather agro as it generates an additional glancing blow right after the 4th hit glancing blow.

[Nick_RC]

Good post bout time someone fraps it. I do the same thing on my cleric who uses a greataxe. Also of note for the twitch impaired theres a way you can do it holding down the jump key. As to the dps I hope doing that makes it the same as a 2wf. Ul be taking half the viscious which is nice.

N

[Mhykke]

Also, if you're a WF and have the docent of defiance, you can do this much easier. Since you barely move when defiance procs, you can just hold forward or back and hold down the attack button. You keep swinging away while barely moving away or towards the mob.

[Nick_RC]

Yup mhyke - also the jump button tricks only good against static targets like portals or Arry part 4

[Shade]

Also, if you're a WF and have the docent of defiance, you can do this much easier. Since you barely move when defiance procs, you can just hold forward or back and hold down the attack button. You keep swinging away while barely moving away or towards the mob.

It's quite possible to do that on any race simply by moving towards the monster your hitting, as long he's stationary you will not move, but the attack while moving will activate.

I can also do it without moving and not presing against a mob just by barely pressing the keys.

Just difficult to do it while attacking the air, with fraps going due to the input lag.

[spifflove]

Whats more important, spring attack or gthf (assuming you are getting the capstone, and have thf, ithf)

[Shade]

Gthf.

[Strakeln]

Don't forget running backwards into the pocket in VoD. Possibly the easiest spot in the game, to the point that it's almost difficult to screw up.

[Raegoul]

/helpful

[Shade]

Don't forget running backwards into the pocket in VoD. Possibly the easiest spot in the game, to the point that it's almost difficult to screw up.

Simpy doing the attacks while moving over and over is slower then this style (which that situation would cause). Tho still mcuh better then auto attack.

[Shroonith]

Do you recieve a glancing blow every other swing with this method?

[Shade]

Yes

[Borror0]

It's sad that there is such a great disparity between the two. I hope it hurts the ego of the guys in charge enough to fix this.

It looks really bad for your game if you got to play that way... (and it is horrible from a balance perspective as well.)

[Do'Urden]

I'm not an expert at THF so are there only 5 attack rolls in the full BAB THF sequence at level 16? I'm sure someone has already done these comparisons, but I counted the following in the videos 1 min baseline:

1st & 2nd attacks only ~ 70 cycles (+ 1 glancing blow?)

Full attack sequence ~ 19.5 cycles (+ 3 glancing blows?)

[Shade]

Correct. Using this style you generate 50% glancing blows. Using auto attack you generate 60%.

[Do'Urden]

It's sad that there is such a great disparity between the two. I hope it hurts the ego of the guys in charge enough to fix this.

It looks really bad for your game if you got to play that way... (and it is horrible from a balance perspective as well.)

Agreed. It's absurd that a THF-spec character has to dance while attacking in an attempt to close the DPS gap vs. a 2WF-spec character mashing the auto-attack button :(

[Do'Urden]

Correct. Using this style you generate 50% glancing blows. Using auto attack you generate 60%.

OK so assuming full BAB16 and no misses due to the movement penalty....

1st & 2nd attacks only ~ 140 attack rolls with 70 glancing blows

Full attack sequence ~ 98 attack rolls with 59 glancing blows

No contest and the gap probably increases in Mod 9 with the additions to extra damage procs on glancing blows :(

[Strakeln]

It's sad that there is such a great disparity between the two. I hope it hurts the ego of the guys in charge enough to fix this.I suspect they will, just like they did with the old push-hotkey-while-swinging method...

...but...

I suspect they may not fix it in the way one might hope. Instead of fixing the animation delays, I would anticipate one of the following:

- Introduce a delay when attack chain is interrupted
- Dramatically [reduce PC to-hit / Increase NPC AC] through some method (expect creativity here... stacking to-hit movement penalty or something really off the wall)

Turbine: Be Careful What You Ask For™

[Borror0]

I suspect they may not fix it in the way one might hope. Instead of fixing the animation delays, I would anticipate one of the following:
It would be in their interest to simply redo all animations.

Too many problems with them:

Animations look clunky and horrible until 5 BAB
15 BAB animations look overexaggerated and unaesthetic
10 BAB and 15 BAB animations lowers your DPS
"I stab with my club" FTW!

[Shroonith]

How much increase is this method over simply constantly moving? 5%? 10%? Im not very good at the move stop thing.

(thanks shade, i put spring attack on my THF fighter cause of this thread)

[BlackSteel]

How much increase is this method over simply constantly moving? 5%? 10%? Im not very good at the move stop thing.



w/o jumping in game to count it definitively, I'd wager 15-20% extra over the autoattack base. Its a very noticable improvement.

Movement damage listings, with highest at top

2 step, one stationary (most difficult) 50% glancing
3 Step, 2 stationary (easier to perform) 33% glancing
2 step, all moving (easiest movement but still subpar)
autoattack

[negative]

2 step, one stationary (most difficult) 50% glancing
3 Step, 2 stationary (easier to perform) 33% glancing
2 step, all moving (easiest movement but still subpar)
autoattack
Can you clarify what you mean by this? 2 step, one stationary = 2 total swings, one while moving, one stationary, IE like the video in the OP. Or something different?

[BlackSteel]

like the video i'd imagine, i've yet to actually watch it tho. I'm trusting thats what it is due to the attacks/min commented on it

[Sabotage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afDJJzbaoZU

Obviously it's the same result, just shows how the pacing is a little different. I know the vid is not the best quality but i'm just learning how to use Virtual Dub.

[baddax]

just curious but If # of attacks is the primary concern as a THF wouldnt a Qstaff be more DPS on portals? As the chance of criticals is removed, you could still generate significant glancing blows And Have a comparable swing rate to the TWF? Assuming comparable weapons of course.

[BlackSteel]

just curious but If # of attacks is the primary concern as a THF wouldnt a Qstaff be more DPS on portals? As the chance of criticals is removed, you could still generate significant glancing blows And Have a comparable swing rate to the TWF? Assuming comparable weapons of course.

THF moving is faster than autoattack staff, on top of having more base damage

moving to up staff attacks is nearly pointless as well; gain is smaller and much more difficult. Staff only really makes sense to stay centered with monk, or with the gains from acrobat.

[Thanimal]

It would be in their interest to simply redo all animations.

Too many problems with them:

Animations look clunky and horrible until 5 BAB
15 BAB animations look overexaggerated and unaesthetic
10 BAB and 15 BAB animations lowers your DPS
"I stab with my club" FTW!



Even the BAB 5 animation can theoretically lower DPS, though at that level the added +5 to-hit usually overwhelms that.
some animations swipe the unsharpened part of the kama at the opponent
piercing weapons are swung on some animations
slashing and bludgeoning weapons are thrusted on some animations
TWF attacks are mismatched to animations (almost comically so -- depending on BAB, some of the ones that attack with both weapons are a single attack and some of the ones that attack with one weapon are double attacks)
(technically just my opinion) the constant spinning and jumping is just silly


And I list some related undesirable behaviors here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=179966

[Shade]

just curious but If # of attacks is the primary concern as a THF wouldnt a Qstaff be more DPS on portals? As the chance of criticals is removed, you could still generate significant glancing blows And Have a comparable swing rate to the TWF? Assuming comparable weapons of course.

The significantly lower base damage combined with the lack of racial enhancements to boost it drops it below Greataxes, regardless of attack style - auto or not. I mean it's 3d6 on a greensteel vs 1d8, quite a drop. then -2 dmg for lack of racial enhancement vs dwarfs with the axe ones. A high base damage is critical against portals for two handed DPS, as your glancing blows make not work at all if your base damage isnt enough.

Qstaff is meant just for the classes spec'd in it - monks and acrobat rogues.

[BlackSteel]

The significantly lower base damage combined with the lack of racial enhancements to boost it drops it below Greataxes, regardless of attack style - auto or not. I mean it's 3d6 on a greensteel vs 1d8, quite a drop. then -2 dmg for lack of racial enhancement vs dwarfs with the axe ones. A high base damage is critical against portals for two handed DPS, as your glancing blows make not work at all if your base damage isnt enough.

Qstaff is meant just for the classes spec'd in it - monks and acrobat rogues.

well autoattack vs autoattack, the Qstaff isnt so bad given the target. so what if it does 5 less regular base damage. its attacking at a rate considerable enough to offset it.

the question begets : just how lazy are you during portal beatings

[baddax]

well autoattack vs autoattack, the Qstaff isnt so bad given the target. so what if it does 5 less regular base damage. its attacking at a rate considerable enough to offset it.

the question begets : just how lazy are you during portal beatings




I think the fact the dev's added a simplified Auto Attack via mouse click, speaks to the overall lazyness of the DDO population (myself included!) :D

[baddax]

If i could hire a hireling to beat my portal i probably would, assuming he had significant DPS!

[Shade]

well autoattack vs autoattack, the Qstaff isnt so bad given the target. so what if it does 5 less regular base damage. its attacking at a rate considerable enough to offset it.

the question begets : just how lazy are you during portal beatings

Well yea it is kinda bad vs a Greataxe, in the hands of a pure barbarian. Immune to criticals or not. According to cforce attack speed index, the Qstaff does 84 spm vs 81, really barely faster. Personally I feel it is faster then that but haven't really tested.

The base damage difference on greensteel is more then 5. 3d6 vs 1d8. Thats 6.5 average damage more, then add +2 dwarven axe damage for more again.

Also I believe the base damage calculates into glancing blows more then other factors like str, so the Qstaff does quite a bit weaker glancing blows. For a ranger or fighter with only moderate strength, this could mean zero dmg glancing blows due to the 10 DR, while the greataxe still does a little.

[baddax]

This would be a good test comparrion IMO.

[sigtrent]

Nice demonstration. I've heard you talk about it in the past and was curious what it looked like while performing it. Kudos for mastering that particular art.

I counted about 46 swings in 20 seconds for the two swing and 33 or so in 20 for the auto attack. (that spin swing is especially slow) So that's almost 40% faster which is very significant assuming you aren't missing, and I'd assume 90% of the time you are not.

While I find it a little cheesy I would never call that cheating. It takes skill and the great thing about DDO is its a skill based game to a large degree and play skill means as much or more than your build. 40% is a bit much perhaps, but as a reward for diligence and mastering the game it doesn't seem "unfair" to me.

I would like to see the different weapon speed animations balanced out so swords weren't slower than axes etc, but I think for the average player its not really on the radar.

[spifflove]

Nice demonstration. I've heard you talk about it in the past and was curious what it looked like while performing it. Kudos for mastering that particular art.

I counted about 46 swings in 20 seconds for the two swing and 33 or so in 20 for the auto attack. (that spin swing is especially slow) So that's almost 40% faster which is very significant assuming you aren't missing, and I'd assume 90% of the time you are not.

While I find it a little cheesy I would never call that cheating. It takes skill and the great thing about DDO is its a skill based game to a large degree and play skill means as much or more than your build. 40% is a bit much perhaps, but as a reward for diligence and mastering the game it doesn't seem "unfair" to me.

I would like to see the different weapon speed animations balanced out so swords weren't slower than axes etc, but I think for the average player its not really on the radar.

Sigtrent? Lol you have alot of builds to update.

[szaijan]

Assuming your BaB is +16, your 4th attack is only at BaB +1, 15 less than your 1st attack. The fact that repeating this low to hit attack over and over is more effective than finishing out the attack series in just as much a condemnation of AC and To Hit scaling with level as it is of the attack animation speeds.

Both need to be fixed.

[Tygre]

Movement damage listings, with highest at top

2 step, one stationary (most difficult) 50% glancing
3 Step, 2 stationary (easier to perform) 33% glancing
2 step, all moving (easiest movement but still subpar)
autoattack

query: specifically to the portals:
holding the jump button while auto-attacking against a stationary target would put a THF where on the above damage chart?... it seems to match the highest
...
can someone verify pls?

[Strakeln]

While I find it a little cheesy I would never call that cheating. It takes skill and the great thing about DDO is its a skill based game to a large degree and play skill means as much or more than your build. 40% is a bit much perhaps, but as a reward for diligence and mastering the game it doesn't seem "unfair" to me.I agree that it is not cheating, but I'll add that based on previous dev behavior, I'm rather certain this is not intended. It's very similar to the old "Spam one button while attacking to cause you to do the 1st swing over and over and over" problem. Recall that their solution to that problem was to remove the artificial pause between the last attack in a chain and the first in the next chain.

I hope their solution to this is similar... meaning, correct the animation so that it no longer applies an implicit penalty for going through an entire attack chain.

[BlackSteel]

query: specifically to the portals:
holding the jump button while auto-attacking against a stationary target would put a THF where on the above damage chart?... it seems to match the highest
...
can someone verify pls?

constantly jumping I imagine is identical to constantly moving, which is below either of the twitch styles in damage

[Shade]

constantly jumping I imagine is identical to constantly moving, which is below either of the twitch styles in damage

Jumping has no effect on the attack chain.
Thus constantly jumping is 100% identical to auto attacking.

This style is simply moving while attacking for 1 swing only, then standing while attacking. It is in no way a "cheat" or even cheesy..

I agree it's a strange style to use that has a really too large impact on DPS that should be corrected..

But if corrected, it needs to be corrected upwards.. So that the 3rd/4th/5th attacks are performed MUCH faster then the first 2. Having them be slower never made any sense.

Attakcing while moving has MANY more benefits then just a faster swing rate, as such it should not really be faster then standing. IMO it should be equal speed, and the penalty of -4 to hit (and lack of +5/+10 progression) should be enough to convince us to not continously move while attacking.

This style howeve wasn't always the best DPS. Long ago the 4th attack actaully provided +2 to your critical range. This made using it actauly worth while vs targets you could crit... This was removed and thus any reason to use that attack was also removed. It was more balanced like that in some ways.

[sigtrent]

Assuming your BaB is +16, your 4th attack is only at BaB +1, 15 less than your 1st attack. The fact that repeating this low to hit attack over and over is more effective than finishing out the attack series in just as much a condemnation of AC and To Hit scaling with level as it is of the attack animation speeds.

It doesn't work that way in DDO. Here the mechanic is actually the reverse of pen and paper D&D and the later attacks get a bonus to hit. +5 for attack 3, +10 for 4 and 5. It makes some sense when you think about realistic annimation times and giving high level characters an advantage for multiple attacks, but the variant animations muck it up a bit. It also distorts the normal armor class mechanic making mid range AC less valuable because attack values don't decrease in the chain where mid range AC still would offer an advantage.

For high attack value characters the added bonuses often aren't needed to hit most critters so its kind of a wasted bonus for them.

[BlackSteel]

Jumping has no effect on the attack chain.
Thus constantly jumping is 100% identical to auto attacking.

This style is simply moving while attacking for 1 swing only, then standing while attacking. It is in no way a "cheat" or even cheesy..


Wrong

.... When was the last time you saw your dwarf do the spinning attack animation in the air. If you're constantly jumping you will not see the later attacks.


Checked the animation in game, jumping stationary gives the same effect as twitch strafing, not the moving animation. It does disrupt the chain, thus giving you a mix of the repeating attacks 1-2, and 1-3 . Holding the button and contantly jumping tho makes it nearly impossible to ONLY do 1-2, but it is something to do if you want to go on autopilot and deal near peak DPS, even if it does look horrendous.

[FluffyCalico]

Wrong

.... When was the last time you saw your dwarf do the spinning attack animation in the air. If you're constantly jumping you will not see the later attacks.


Checked the animation in game, jumping stationary gives the same effect as twitch strafing, not the moving animation. It does disrupt the chain, thus giving you a mix of the repeating attacks 1-2, and 1-3 . Holding the button and contantly jumping tho makes it nearly impossible to ONLY do 1-2, but it is something to do if you want to go on autopilot and deal near peak DPS, even if it does look horrendous.

my 2wf does the spin while constantly jumping at the portal. With 2wf I see no difference at all when I constantly jump, the whole chain is still there. So as much as I hate to do it gonna go with shade on this one

[Shade]

Wrong
.... When was the last time you saw your dwarf do the spinning attack animation in the air.

Last night. Maybe for your setup it's different. For me I do all 5 attacks while in midair no problem. For me, only moving interupts the chain - while in mid air or not.

[Shade]

It doesn't work that way in DDO. Here the mechanic is actually the reverse of pen and paper D&D and the later attacks get a bonus to hit. +5 for attack 3, +10 for 4 and +15 for attack 5.

While originally the 5th attack was +15.. It was very quickly changed (even before it went live IIRC) to be the same as the 4th, +10 - because it was decided that such a massive bonus was difficult to balance against. So the progression is +0/+0/+5/+10/+10.

[negative]

Last night. Maybe for your setup it's different. For me I do all 5 attacks while in midair no problem. For me, only moving interupts the chain - while in mid air or not.
It depends on when you hit the jump button. My experiance is this when jumping in-place: When the jump button is actively held down, you are considered to be moving. When it it released, you are considered stationary, even if you are in mid-air. If you lightly tap the jump button, and swing in mid air, yes, you can do all 5 attacks in mid air.

If you press and hold the jump button (and don't let go), you will do the 2-swing "running" attack animation (on the ground). Versus portals, this would net you the exact same effect as running toward the portal. I do this against harry, but I save the strain on my hand while doing portals and simply turn on autorun.

You can also use this to break your attack chain and achive the same affect in the video, by holding the jump button at the same time you hit the button for your first swing, and releasing during the second swing. I don't like this method though, because sometimes I jump so high that my first swing doesn't connect.

However, all this is buggy, and I suspect it is not working as intended. Because, while holding down the jump button and not releasing, while on your screen it may look like you are doing the "running" attack animation, and your floaty damage numbers coorespond, to anyone else watching you, on their screen, it appears as if you are doing the complete stationary attack animation.

Go try this all in game, it is extremely easy to verify.

[Murderface]

It's sad that there is such a great disparity between the two. I hope it hurts the ego of the guys in charge enough to fix this.

It looks really bad for your game if you got to play that way... (and it is horrible from a balance perspective as well.)
two handers should swing at the same speed as say one handed weapons

[LewsTherin]

Actually it makes more sense that the bigger weapons take longer to swing.

[spifflove]

Actually it makes more sense that the bigger weapons take longer to swing.

Like in this matchup of the claymore vs the sword and board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtBs2QSOZqk

[Leyoni]

I'm not an expert at THF so are there only 5 attack rolls in the full BAB THF sequence at level 16? I'm sure someone has already done these comparisons, but I counted the following in the videos 1 min baseline:

1st & 2nd attacks only ~ 70 cycles (+ 1 glancing blow?)

Full attack sequence ~ 19.5 cycles (+ 3 glancing blows?)

This translates to 70*2=140 attacks with 70 glancing blows vs 19.5*5=97.5 attacks with 58.5 glancing blows?

Is that correct?

[BlackSteel]

Go try this all in game, it is extremely easy to verify.

thanks, I didnt even think to try holding the jump button down once I saw that manually doing it gave me 2, sometimes 3 swings every jump

[BlackSteel]

This translates to 70*2=140 attacks with 70 glancing blows vs 19.5*5=97.5 attacks with 58.5 glancing blows?

Is that correct?

pretty much yes, give or take a few swings depending on latency and twitchiness

[Leyoni]

pretty much yes, give or take a few swings depending on latency and twitchiness

Thanks.

We are having a discussion in a different thread about what constitutes a real game imbalance. If this is accurate then you may have uncovered one.

[Murderface]

Actually it makes more sense that the bigger weapons take longer to swing.
your using two hands so the heaviness should not be a factor can someone swing fast with a hand axe then a two handed axe in real life no they swing about the same another arm and a bit of extra weight doesnt slow you down

[Leyoni]

Actually it makes more sense that the bigger weapons take longer to swing.

your using two hands so the heaviness should not be a factor can someone swing fast with a hand axe then a two handed axe in real life no they swing about the same another arm and a bit of extra weight doesnt slow you down

Any "swing" speed is determined by three things -- weight of the object being swung, strength of the person swinging things and circumference. But, it isn't the circumference on the outside of the swing but the circumference at the hub. Think of a wheel. Outside circumference rotates at the same speed as the inside circumference where the hub of the wheel sets on the axle.

So, and overhead swing with arms extended takes takes no more time with a hand axe than with a great axe IF the other two factors are the same (or if the muscle to weight ratio is the same).

The issue, as studies have shown, is in recovery time. Lighter weapons swung more compactly have a much faster recovery time than a heavy weapon which requires more space to use.

[sigtrent]

While originally the 5th attack was +15.. It was very quickly changed (even before it went live IIRC) to be the same as the 4th, +10 - because it was decided that such a massive bonus was difficult to balance against. So the progression is +0/+0/+5/+10/+10.

Ahh yes I forgot they did that, thanks Shade.

[spifflove]

your using two hands so the heaviness should not be a factor can someone swing fast with a hand axe then a two handed axe in real life no they swing about the same another arm and a bit of extra weight doesnt slow you down

They are slower but with significantly more bang for the buck. The drawback is they don't work against a shieldwall. But I believe that heroic things can be done by heroic characters and that should also be true for ddo. If Robin Hood can do incredible things with a bow, then a twitch player should be able to do heroic things with a 2 hander. Its not unfair, think of it like the difference between a level 4 character and a level 20 one.

[Strakeln]

It depends on when you hit the jump button. My experiance is this when jumping in-place: When the jump button is actively held down, you are considered to be moving. When it it released, you are considered stationary, even if you are in mid-air. If you lightly tap the jump button, and swing in mid air, yes, you can do all 5 attacks in mid air.

If you press and hold the jump button (and don't let go), you will do the 2-swing "running" attack animation (on the ground). Versus portals, this would net you the exact same effect as running toward the portal. I do this against harry, but I save the strain on my hand while doing portals and simply turn on autorun.

You can also use this to break your attack chain and achive the same affect in the video, by holding the jump button at the same time you hit the button for your first swing, and releasing during the second swing. I don't like this method though, because sometimes I jump so high that my first swing doesn't connect.

However, all this is buggy, and I suspect it is not working as intended. Because, while holding down the jump button and not releasing, while on your screen it may look like you are doing the "running" attack animation, and your floaty damage numbers coorespond, to anyone else watching you, on their screen, it appears as if you are doing the complete stationary attack animation.

Go try this all in game, it is extremely easy to verify.Not sure if you mentioned this before, though I know Axer did much earlier in the thread:

From what I read of your post, it sounds like holding the jump button results in the same action as if you are running and swinging. As Axer noted in an earlier post (and I then tested), this results in fewer swings than if you use the "break the chain" method that Axer demonstrated (or, if you use the "break the chain" method you specify above).

In other words, the 1-2 combo that Axer demonstrates is the fastest way to attack. Holding jump (or running while swinging) results in fewer swings, but still more than simply swinging through the entire attack chain.

[negative]

In other words, the 1-2 combo that Axer demonstrates is the fastest way to attack. Holding jump (or running while swinging) results in fewer swings, but still more than simply swinging through the entire attack chain.
Sounds right to me.

[BlackSteel]

In other words, the 1-2 combo that Axer demonstrates is the fastest way to attack. Holding jump (or running while swinging) results in fewer swings, but still more than simply swinging through the entire attack chain.

stationary and jumping can produce the same 1-2, but is also likely to do a 1-3 depending on your jump score and when the initial attack is timed

[Tygre]

Not sure if you mentioned this before, though I know Axer did much earlier in the thread:

From what I read of your post, it sounds like holding the jump button results in the same action as if you are running and swinging. As Axer noted in an earlier post (and I then tested), this results in fewer swings than if you use the "break the chain" method that Axer demonstrated (or, if you use the "break the chain" method you specify above).

In other words, the 1-2 combo that Axer demonstrates is the fastest way to attack. Holding jump (or running while swinging) results in fewer swings, but still more than simply swinging through the entire attack chain.

Consufed :P

It appears that attacking while holding the jump button (thus being stationary on the ground with the jump button held) does a right-to-left and then a left-to-right attack with glancing blows in there somewhere, repeat ad-infinitum

would this not be at the same attack speed as the fastest? If not, what attack speed would it be at compared to norm?

[Junts]

Consufed :P

It appears that attacking while holding the jump button (thus being stationary on the ground with the jump button held) does a right-to-left and then a left-to-right attack with glancing blows in there somewhere, repeat ad-infinitum

would this not be at the same attack speed as the fastest? If not, what attack speed would it be at compared to norm?

Basically, the second attack while moving has a slower animation than the 2nd attack while standing still, so doing (moving 1st) + (stationary 2nd) produces more attacks than simply moving constnatly and getting (moving 1st) + (moving 2nd).

If you practice what the video does and compare it to the holding-spacebar or running-against-the-wall methods, you will find very quickly that the 2nd attack is tremendously faster when it is transitioning to the standing-still animation as opposed to the very slow backswing from the running while swinging animation.

[negative]

would this not be at the same attack speed as the fastest? If not, what attack speed would it be at compared to norm?
Same attack speed as moving/running.

[Djeserit]

With WoTA II and wind stance, I am having trouble breaking up my sequence. I'm not even hasted. And then add my rogue haste boost. Maybe I just need practice? Not sure how much this is going to help my rogue, since I don't alway hit and the attack speed is a bit faster.


The animation for a qstaff swing while moving is a very slow butt stroke. The animation for moving with the axe seems relatively faster. So if you miss your break with the qstaff, you seem to risk getting stuck in a very slow animation.

Any help?

[BlackSteel]

With WoTA II and wind stance, I am having trouble breaking up my sequence. I'm not even hasted. And then add my rogue haste boost. Maybe I just need practice? Not sure how much this is going to help my rogue, since I don't alway hit and the attack speed is a bit faster.


The animation for a qstaff swing while moving is a very slow butt stroke. The animation for moving with the axe seems relatively faster. So if you miss your break with the qstaff, you seem to risk getting stuck in a very slow animation.

Any help?


Qstaff is completely different than any other 2handed weapon. The sequence isnt particularly worthwhile to disrupt.