Balance? LOL!

[Slink]

So..

At what point in the game can we see some REAL balance?
Currently, on the test server, mob hp have been significanlty nerfed in response to the stat/transmuting changes.

How soon can we expect to see Orthons donning a minos legens?
They should seriously consider a few tapestry runs.

What about the enemy casters??
Just recently we began to see kobolds and eladrin dropping DW.
When are they going to begin handing out some really useful buffs for the cohorts?

Some of these mobs are CR 18+
Immunities we have taken for granted since level 7-11 should be incorporated by the
opposition at some point...

Is this going to be part of the V&M?
I think that a real challenge is in order for the game.
Nevermind making silly broken quests, just make them harder.
Level the playing field for the mobs. I heard this before about "blanket immunities" while we enjoy all of them.
With exception to light damage, nothing much matters or hurts a resonably well equipped party.

Discuss.

[Jay203]

So..

At what point in the game can we see some REAL balance?
Currently, on the test server, mob hp have been significanlty nerfed in response to the stat/transmuting changes.

How soon can we expect to see Orthons donning a minos legens?
They should seriously consider a few tapestry runs.

What about the enemy casters??
Just recently we began to see kobolds and eladrin dropping DW.
When are they going to begin handing out some really useful buffs for the cohorts?

Some of these mobs are CR 18+
Immunities we have taken for granted since level 7-11 should be incorporated by the
opposition at some point...

Is this going to be part of the V&M?
I think that a real challenge is in order for the game.
Nevermind making silly broken quests, just make them harder.
Level the playing field for the mobs. I heard this before about "blanket immunities" while we enjoy all of them.
With exception to light damage, nothing much matters or hurts a resonably well equipped party.

Discuss.

while we're at it, make it so they can't snipe at us from 10 miles away
or give them sp limitations like we do
oh, and tone down their god-like str
not to mention ACTUALLY make them HELPLESS when a stat reaches 0
heck, throw in the requirements for concentration checks as well!

when all those are implemented, that's when we start discussing "balance"

[Phidius]

So..

At what point in the game can we see some REAL balance?
Currently, on the test server, mob hp have been significanlty nerfed in response to the stat/transmuting changes.

How soon can we expect to see Orthons donning a minos legens?
They should seriously consider a few tapestry runs.

What about the enemy casters??
Just recently we began to see kobolds and eladrin dropping DW.
When are they going to begin handing out some really useful buffs for the cohorts?

Some of these mobs are CR 18+
Immunities we have taken for granted since level 7-11 should be incorporated by the
opposition at some point...

Is this going to be part of the V&M?
I think that a real challenge is in order for the game.
Nevermind making silly broken quests, just make them harder.
Level the playing field for the mobs. I heard this before about "blanket immunities" while we enjoy all of them.
With exception to light damage, nothing much matters or hurts a resonably well equipped party.

Discuss.

Ah, it's not balance you are looking for, it's a challenge. Not to worry, there's hope for you.

1. Run the quests in the game naked and solo.
2. Post some of the more impressive quests (Enter the Kobold, The Shroud, Vision of Destruction, Stealer of Souls, etc..) in the Achievements forums. No need for fraps, but I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy the videos more than just a screenshot or 2.

I think you'll find that the game will give you more of a challenge if you let it.

[Slink]

while we're at it, make it so they can't snipe at us from 10 miles away
Yep, that 10 points of damage is a real killer
or give them sp limitations like we do
Why do they need a mana bar when they are dead in 5 secs anyways?
oh, and tone down their god-like str
Sure, just as soon as they start doing str damage in return
not to mention ACTUALLY make them HELPLESS when a stat reaches 0
That's the point of this thread, 98% of the mobs are helpless already
heck, throw in the requirements for concentration checks as well!
See reply#2

when all those are implemented, that's when we start discussing "balance"

Try Again

[Slink]

Ah, it's not balance you are looking for, it's a challenge. Not to worry, there's hope for you.

1. Run the quests in the game naked and solo.
2. Post some of the more impressive quests (Enter the Kobold, The Shroud, Vision of Destruction, Stealer of Souls, etc..) in the Achievements forums. No need for fraps, but I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy the videos more than just a screenshot or 2.

I think you'll find that the game will give you more of a challenge if you let it.

Sorry, not looking to solo things, especially since that will be even less of an achievement with the changes coming in mod 9.
Soloing stuff is not difficult and posting about it is.
Looking for challenging quests for a "group"

[Shaamis]

So..

At what point in the game can we see some REAL balance?
Currently, on the test server, mob hp have been significanlty nerfed in response to the stat/transmuting changes.

How soon can we expect to see Orthons donning a minos legens?
They should seriously consider a few tapestry runs.

What about the enemy casters??
Just recently we began to see kobolds and eladrin dropping DW.
When are they going to begin handing out some really useful buffs for the cohorts?

Some of these mobs are CR 18+
Immunities we have taken for granted since level 7-11 should be incorporated by the
opposition at some point...

Is this going to be part of the V&M?
I think that a real challenge is in order for the game.
Nevermind making silly broken quests, just make them harder.
Level the playing field for the mobs. I heard this before about "blanket immunities" while we enjoy all of them.
With exception to light damage, nothing much matters or hurts a resonably well equipped party.

Discuss.

The D&D system by default is not built for balance, that is the allure, and curse of it.

in the DDO atmosphere, the PnP rules' natural IMbalance becomes more visible.

The allure of D&D is to make a character who is more powerful/efficient/better than your buddies anyway.

The ensuing curse therefore, is the downside: of IMbalance, IRregularity, and UNfairness.

It's just merely the NPCs/DMs(Turbine) turn to let the pendulum swing back a little more on their side.

BUT.....

If it swings TOO far back, watch out! FLAME WAR! :D

Remember, enjoyment is the final product, not balance, fairness, or "challenge" even though they all can lead to enjoyment.

[Slink]

The D&D system by default is not built for balance, that is the allure, and curse of it.

in the DDO atmosphere, the PnP rules' natural IMbalance becomes more visible.

The allure of D&D is to make a character who is more powerful/efficient/better than your buddies anyway.

The ensuing curse therefore, is the downside: of IMbalance, IRregularity, and UNfairness.

It's just merely the NPCs/DMs(Turbine) turn to let the pendulum swing back a little more on their side.

BUT.....

If it swings TOO far back, watch out! FLAME WAR! :D

Remember, enjoyment is the final product, not balance, fairness, or "challenge" even though they all can lead to enjoyment.

True enough and very eloquently stated.
lmao, I remember the uproar over something as simple as the vorp nerf.
It continues to this day with mod 9.
Sadly, the majority of those in opposition did not or could not try Lamannia.

I am hopeful that at some point we can see fortification and resistances/epic DR.
The most we have now is a minority of mobs with a 60/90 point elemental protection/spell resistance.
I understand the point of being better than your opponent.
Perhaps we are at the point where a touch more of these types of things are worthy of introduction?

[Shaamis]

True enough and very eloquently stated.
lmao, I remember the uproar over something as simple as the vorp nerf.
It continues to this day with mod 9.
Sadly, the majority of those in opposition did not or could not try Lamannia.

I am hopeful that at some point we can see fortification and resistances/epic DR.
The most we have now is a minority of mobs with a 60/90 point elemental protection/spell resistance.
I understand the point of being better than your opponent.
Perhaps we are at the point where a touch more of these types of things are worthy of introduction?

Even some more randomality of their resistances and or attacks would go a long way to level ing the playfield.

I remember when Sorcs werent the gods they are now because a small amount of spells they could cast meant there was a possibility they might not be effecctive vs. an unknown enemy, but now since we've all run each adventure who knows how many times, we all know exactly the spells, feats, and items we need in order to complete the quest, no.....dominate each quest.

Turbine has begun to implement the ideas we are thinking, with the random arrow elemental damage. It's a small step but necessary for the next step, random elemental melee damage. then possibly random power 5 weapon damage. imagine going into a quest not knowing if one of the mobs might be carrying a vorpal?

Once the thought of the unknown becomes a reality, and we have to check our builds/spells/tactics at the quest door, the challenge level (and therefore enjoyment for some) will increase.

[baddax]

DDO FAIR and BALANCED!!
Also i would like to once again point out that in pnp the ultimate form of balance was the DM.