Requesting a Build - Monk/Rogue?

[Jude]

Hi guys. I've played a little, but I'm a complete newb. I've only played tabletop (albeit a lot) for 2.0, never 3 or 3.5. So with that said I'm running into some struggle making characters that work the way I want since I don't fully understand the system.

With that said, here's what I'm looking for - I'd like a Halfling Monk/Rogue designed to fight as well as a Monk can but also capable of handling traps for a group. I don't think that's spreading the character too thin, so it should be doable. As a newb, I only have a 28 point build. As for weaponry, I pretty much like unarmed combat with handwraps. That's about it. Combat oriented monk with some rogue splashed in to be as effective a trap monkey as I can be.

I made one myself, that I love, but I'd just like the build optimized. For example, I went with pretty good dex and wis but for some reason my AC is still really low. I'm also having trouble handling traps - spots failing me a lot (which surprised me with my monk wisdom) and Search only succeeds about half the time.

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

[honkuimushi]

I haven't planned out a full build, but here's a few ideas.

The first problem is stats. Monk requires a lot of sdifferent stats, but Intelligence is not usually one of them. Unfortunately a multiclassed Rogue requires Intelligence for skill points and Itelligence based skills. The fact that you only have 28 point builds makes this even worse. I would go something like this

Str 12
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Chr 8

Add your first 4 level up stat points to Dex and use the one at 20 to even out an uneven stat tome or add it to Wisdom and take the 3rd Monk Wisdom enhancement.

Now levels and skills. First, YOU MUST START ROGUE. I hate to shout, but it is absoulutely critical to start with Rogue. You loose too many skill ponts starting Monk. Make sure you maximise your rogue skills at level 1. You need Disable Device, Search and Spot to get traps. Open Lock and Use Magic Device are also really important. I would suggest Monk 10/ Rogue 6 followed at 16 leading to Monk 14/ Rogue 6. You will only get 6 skill points per Monk level and cross class skills cost double. So when you try to improve your rogue skills as a monk, you can only increase 3 skills per level.

So what I would do is take a level of Rogue first, then take 2 levels of Monk followed by another level of Rogue. Something like this.

1 Rogue 1
2 Monk 1
3 Monk 2
4 Rogue 2
5 Monk 3
6 Monk 4
7 Rogue 3
8 Monk 5
9 Monk 6
10 Rogue 4
11 Monk 7
12 Monk 8
13 Rogue 5
14 Monk 9
15 Monk 10
16 Rogue 6
17 Monk 11
18 Monk 12
19 Monk 13
20 Monk 14

Up to level 7, I would only raise your Rogue skills while taking a level in Rogue and use your Monk levels to take other skills you want, especially Concentration. Spot is a class skill for both and should be kept maxed every level. After level 7, I would add one point to Search and DD at 9th, 12th and 15th levels to keep them high and after level 17, keep them maxed every level.

Open lock is important, but doesn't have to be maxed. I would increase OL and UMD only on Rogue levels. I would put a premium on UMD and put extra points into OL as needed. After 17th level, you might not have enough skill points to max DD, Search, Spot, and UMD. Hopefully by that time you will have aquired a +2 Intelligence tome.
The reason for 6 levels of Rogue is for the skills, and also to unlock the PrCs and get the second Dex Enhancement.

For enhancements, the monk ones are important, but the Halfling and Rogue Dex enhancements are also really good. The Rogue skill boost is required. Don't forget the Rogue skill enhancements and I would recommend Mechanic as well. Most Monk/ Rogue hybrids aim for Thief-Acrobat, but that's a quarter staff build and usually has high Strength. For damage, don't forget the Rogue and Halfling Sneak Attack enhancers.

For feats, the Two Weapon Fighting line is imoprtant, but you won't be able to take it until level 6. Toughness is a good idea as is Improved Critical:Bludgeoning. At higher levels, Combat Expertice can be useful to raise your AC.

At low levels your AC won't be that high. AC comes from bracers or robes, your Wisdom and Dex(both of which start out moderate), a few feats, and a few higher level items. Once you get the Black Widow Bracers from Waterworks and get some Wisdom and Dex items to go with your enhancements you should be pretty good.

Honestly, a 28 point halfling is not ideal. The extra feat and skill point that humans get makes them better and they can get the same stats as put here for the halfling. Plus, the Human Versatility Enhancement will give you a bigger skill boost than your Rogue levels will. But whatever you choose, good luck and have fun.

[tihocan]

Just a few things:
- I know you want halfling, but a drow may be easier to build, thanks to the extra Int bonus (and Cha won't hurt for umd either)
- Don't worry about being "the best trap monkey possible". Overall it's pointless, anyone who invests just a bit in trap stuff can easily do the very large majority of traps in the game, and all important ones. By "invests just a bit" I mean max skill ranks, get items available at your level (skills and Int), get tools (buy off AH or obtain free agents favor), start with an ok Int (like 12), and carry heroism pots/clickies. In particular you don't need feats, more than one rogue level, or a stellar Int. The only thing I'd consider if I were you, being new to the game (and thus maybe not being able to afford the minimum required gear), is to spend some feat(s) on skill bonuses, that I'd respec later. It's better than hurting you in the long term with wrong stats or more rogue levels that you really want.
- Start as a rogue to max skill points
- Ideally you want to max out at least UMD, Disable device, Open locks, Spot, Search, Concentration. And maybe put some points into Balance, 1 point in Tumble, and if you can afford it, invest in intimidate as well (but only if you can max it out, especially on a halfling).... That is the main reason why you'll probably need more than 1 rogue level (that you need to plan carefully to optimize your skill points usage).
- To get good AC consider getting clickies of mage armor/shield. That's +8 to AC you can get right from start. Pots of mage armor are very cheap too. Then you'll also need to hunt for Protection items, and buy barkskin pots.
- Consider what kind of split you want at L20. Getting 18 levels of monk would let you reach the highest tier of whatever prestige monk enhancements are released in the future. Going 14/6 may allow you to take tier II of a monk prestige, and tier 1 of a rogue's one (note: if you go assassin, don't forget to invest in hide/move silently)
- If you want to deal decent damage, get the two-weapon fighting chain. If you want to focus on damage, boost your strength as main stat . If you prefer to focus on defense, boost Dex/Wis and get weapon finesse (that's probably what most people would do on such a build). If you don't care too much about damage, then use a staff. In either case, it's best if you can have power attack unless you don't care at all about damage (but that would be a bad idea IMHO, given how DPS is so important at high levels).

That's all I can think of right now... It's definitely a tricky build to get right.

[Jude]

Very useful stuff guys. I appreciate it. The only question I really have is, why two weapon fighting? For dual wielding kamas? Does it help with unarmed combat?

[Clement]

Very useful stuff guys. I appreciate it. The only question I really have is, why two weapon fighting? For dual wielding kamas? Does it help with unarmed combat?

Yes

[Thanimal]

Yes

In fact, it helps a LOT. It will cause significant amounts of additional attacks. Both math and my experience suggests unarmed with and without TWF line is night and day.

I've made a build that is a little "more" than your stated goals, but I've absolutely loved it. While it may not be exactly what you're looking for, I think it has enough similarities to be useful to study:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=171456

[negative]

Greater Two Weapon Fighting doubles the amount of attacks you get both while unarmed and using kama's.

[winsom]

If you want to be an exceptional damage-dealing rogue you want at least 13 levels for the sneak attacking and two special rogue feats (10, and 13th) and rogue enhancements.. You can be a useful rogue at traps and lock by taking a single rogue level and a high starting Intelligence and Dexterity.

Keep in mind that DDO adventures do not require traps to be disarmed or doors to be unlocked. There are always ways around these problems while a trapsmith just makes the adventure easier to solve. Some very few adventures when played on elite difficulty will have extremely dangerous traps that (almost) require a skillful rogue.

If you want to have an exceptional monk then you really want all 20 monk levels. You can still be a good monk with only 16 monk levels though, but might you be the type of player that envies the other monk that is always "1 step better than you" because he didn't multi-class ?

All of these things improve with monk levels: Monk AC, improved unarmed damage, improved feather fall, movement speed, saving throw DC vs your monk abilities. Some of these improve every 4 or 5 levels which means 20th is an important level. 20th is also Fall any distance for zero damage, innate damage reduction, and enhanced KI pool (capstone enhancement)

fyi, I have both a 20th monk planned and also a Monk 11+/Rogue X, already being played. The multi-class monk/rogue is fun to Use Magical Devices and occasionally surprise someone when I can open a lock, but I understand she will never quite-as-good at fighting as my single class monk. It is fun to inflict Stun as a monk and deal sneak attack as a result with your rogue levels, but keep in mind that DDO's enhancement perks allow a halfling single-classed monk to do this without any rogue levels! That kinda kills most of the attractiveness of Monk/Rogue in my opinion.

[UnderwearModel]

Then consider this

2nd level rogue is that when you get the rogue boost for skills or can you do that at 1st level? This is the feat that gives you a 20 second boost to your search, lock picking, disabling, haggle skill.

On my rogues multi classes, I take two levels of rogue and that is it. As I level, I then throw one full point into trap disabling and search. I quit adding points to lock picking. You need to be able to find the trap and disable the trap. There are LOTS of traps in the game, not many locks.

Trap disabling - as you level up, you can add points to trap disabling skill and search.

Not many locks in the game to annoy you. Plus, a wizard or Sorc, might be able to unlock some with their knock spell. Although, there are a few of those where the Knock spell does not seem to work too well.

As a multi class, no matter what your trap disable is, you probably will not be able to get that one trap in the Gianthold quest, Cabal for One?

[Noctus]

As a multi class, no matter what your trap disable is, you probably will not be able to get that one trap in the Gianthold quest, Cabal for One?

Has nothing to do with multiclass or pure.

Being able to get that one trap (witch noone expects you to) means having spend so many resources of your character build into a total overkill in trapskills, leaving you basically gimped for all other things a rogue needs to do.
Like, well , contributing meaningfull to combat or not dying afther 2 swings from a toothpick wielding Kobold....

[Thanimal]

Being able to get that one trap (witch noone expects you to) means having spend so many resources of your character build into a total overkill in trapskills, leaving you basically gimped for all other things a rogue needs to do.
Like, well , contributing meaningfull to combat or not dying afther 2 swings from a toothpick wielding Kobold....

I believe this is my first ever: QFT.

I decided a long time ago that any build that can reliably get that ONE, OPTIONAL chest has horribly misallocated its build resources. It takes such a dedication to get there that you give up most of the awesomeness of the Rogue class. And it is awesome: In the right situation a mostly-Rogue can deal more DPS than any other build AND (a different) mostly-Rogue has the highest AC potential in the game, as evidenced by the fact that every screenshot on my "AC contest" a while back was a mostly-Rogue.

[Habar414]

great great stuff, I'm a fan & player of Tabletop 3.5 and my Favorite combo was Mo/R for stunning and sneak attack ^^, this guide has been really helpful in my quest to recreate my character in DDO :D gj!

[byzantinebob]

Everything I have read on these forums says that you either splash 1-2 levels of monk or go pure. Anything else is inefficient, according the popular opinion of these forums. My limited experience with both classes has led me to agree with this. They are too specialized at what they do, so they get dilated quickly.