Abbot Asteroids

[Jefro]

On lamannia abbot was unbeatable due to asteroid puzzle not working properly. Could this version be different from the version on moorlands? Could they gives us some details on how to achieve the result that needed? Because currently run out of ammo.
Will they be changing the lamannia version before going live?


Since encasements vanish now, destroying them are not needed as much. So maybe we can change the puzzle?

Perhaps change the asteroid puzzle to another invisible tile floor with asteroids being obstacles to cross and there alot less of them. The new throwing weapon to pick up will be like the holy water from crypt of the blighted and you use it to color the floor so you get the direction to go?

[Aspenor]

How was it not working properly? A little more info is in order.

[Riorik]

The few times I tried it with (experienced at doing the abbot guildies) a few weeks ago, we simply ran out of stones to throw at the asteroids...admittedly, we didn't try for perfection and got bored doing it on the test server.

I recall reading a forum post about somebody who'd attempted it carefully and claimed they'd hit with 99% of the available ammo and they'd still died when more of them hit them.

Too many asteroids or not enough ammunition (or since it was using 2 rounds per toss, perhaps a bug)...take your pick.


Because currently run out of ammo.


A little more info is in order.

I guess you just missed the relevant quote?

[Thrudh]

I think this has been fixed since the last Llama patch

[Jefro]

I heard that asteroids is very noob friendly on moorlands, so either current lamannia update is older or plain bugged. I really want the abbot fixed.
I was really hoping for a even larger overhaul on the puzzles. But it seems like they were trying to just remove options people used to make abbot easier (ie en casements now vanish really quickly).

[Eladrin]

There was indeed a bug that broke the Asteroids encounter on Lammania. It was found and fixed due to the helpful feedback that was received.

[The_Phenx]

Oooooo look we did something right :)

[Jefro]

Thank you very much.

[Missing_Minds]

There was indeed a bug that broke the Asteroids encounter on Lammania. It was found and fixed due to the helpful feedback that was received.

How many beers did it take? :)

[dejafu]

Behold, the power of test servers :)

[Yuhjn]

There was indeed a bug that broke the Asteroids encounter on Lammania. It was found and fixed due to the helpful feedback that was received.


Since even the most simple QA pass would have caught this, I'm left to wonder why the new Abbott raid script wasnt even tested once internally or on Mournlands.


Based on this kind of QA manpower (none) I'd say you better open up the new quests on Lamania or you'll end up going live with huge bugs again (raids being able to be repeated without timer, raids being solvable by exploit in no time at all, etc).

[Aspenor]

Since even the most simple QA pass would have caught this, I'm left to wonder why the new Abbott raid script wasnt even tested once internally or on Mournlands.


Based on this kind of QA manpower (none) I'd say you better open up the new quests on Lamania or you'll end up going live with huge bugs again (raids being able to be repeated without timer, raids being solvable by exploit in no time at all, etc).

Eladrin already said it worked fine on the test server, and that something got farked in the transfer to the preview.

I don't feel like finding the quote. He said it when this bug was first noted.

[maddmatt70]

Since even the most simple QA pass would have caught this, I'm left to wonder why the new Abbott raid script wasnt even tested once internally or on Mournlands.


Based on this kind of QA manpower (none) I'd say you better open up the new quests on Lamania or you'll end up going live with huge bugs again (raids being able to be repeated without timer, raids being solvable by exploit in no time at all, etc).

Hilarious got to love the negativity. Eladrin just said they fixed the asteroids before it hit the live servers.. Sounds like they got the job done..

[NXPlasmid]

Since even the most simple QA pass would have caught this, I'm left to wonder why the new Abbott raid script wasnt even tested once internally or on Mournlands.


Based on this kind of QA manpower (none) I'd say you better open up the new quests on Lamania or you'll end up going live with huge bugs again (raids being able to be repeated without timer, raids being solvable by exploit in no time at all, etc).

I think it would be useful to include the number of MMO that you have coded, or developed and also the number of them that you have QA'ed. that would turn your post from a pointless rant, into an inciteful observation. However, I guess it'll probably just have to remain a pointless rant...

[Amabel]

Ummm, why the complaints? Error reported, error fixed. Good stuff.

[Yuhjn]

I think it would be useful to include the number of MMO that you have coded, or developed and also the number of them that you have QA'ed. that would turn your post from a pointless rant, into an inciteful observation. However, I guess it'll probably just have to remain a pointless rant...

It was in fact an observation followed by a suggestion.

Your response, on the other hand, was a rant.

[Yuhjn]

Ummm, why the complaints? Error reported, error fixed. Good stuff.

Yes, error reported on the preview server. Not on their internal QA server, not on their NDA test server, but on the preview server.

And my point was that they will need to open the quests on the preview server as well, since it's obviously serving as their only QA environment.

[Riorik]

Eladrin already said it worked fine on the test server, and that something got farked in the transfer to the preview.

I don't feel like finding the quote. He said it when this bug was first noted.

So what? The Hellhound ate his homework?

[NXPlasmid]

Yes, error reported on the preview server. Not on their internal QA server, not on their NDA test server, but on the preview server.

And my point was that they will need to open the quests on the preview server as well, since it's obviously serving as their only QA environment.

weak sauce.

[Turial]

Yes, error reported on the preview server. Not on their internal QA server, not on their NDA test server, but on the preview server.

And my point was that they will need to open the quests on the preview server as well, since it's obviously serving as their only QA environment.

It is a bit troubling to hear this as a consumer of a product.

As a QA director though I know fully well if it didn't reach the end consumer with the issue in place then the system worked. As odd as that sounds it is why there are redundant levels of viewing of a product before the consumer gets it.

[Borror0]

Yes, error reported on the preview server. Not on their internal QA server, not on their NDA test server, but on the preview server.

And my point was that they will need to open the quests on the preview server as well, since it's obviously serving as their only QA environment.
If you want to define their preview server as a "QA environment", then it is impossible to define the preview server as their only QA environment as the NDA server would also fall into the same definition and thus there would be more than one QA environment.

Furthermore, Silthe has said, in the past, that Mournland was not a QA server but a playtesting server. Basically, they gather players and ask them to play the game and then give their feedback as to how fun/boring it is and how they would like to see thing be changed/improved. Of course, they run into bugs and report them, but that is not the main function of the server.

This suggests that they have their own QA server.

Two more probable cause of bugs are insufficient testing and cost efficiency. Since QA costs money, they have a limited fund for their QA and may not catch all the bugs. If they had no QA, there would be twenty times the number of bugs we see each Module, and I would not be surprised to hear that is a conservative estimate. Also, they may be aware of the bug but prefer to release the module anyway. It's a guess between how much delaying the module will cost them vs how much the bugs will cost them.

That is also part of the equation.

In this case, however, the problem happened between the test server and Lammania. Eladrin has confirmed that it worked as intended during their testing but that it didn't work on the test server. If you want, you can blame them for not having QA capable of reproducing the conditions on the preview and live servers but your claim that Lammania is their only QA environment is illogical and in direct opposition to multiple evidences.

[Yuhjn]

If you want to define their preview server as a "QA environment", then it is impossible to define the preview server as their only QA environment as the NDA server would also fall into the same definition and thus there would be more than one QA environment.

All this is beside the point. My point is that if they cant catch something as easy as this internally and we must find it on the preview server, that they need to release the quests themselves there as well because there will obviously be bugs in them as well that we need to find before live.

[Bronko]

Ummm, why the complaints? Error reported, error fixed. Good stuff.

It's to be expected Amabel. Things always get a bit crazy prior to a pending release.

But credit where credit is due. The players who spent their valuable play-time testing things on Llama did a great job of reporting/documenting the bug. And Eladrin and the rest of the team did theirs by listening to the feedback and finding a fix.

Good job to all.

/salute

[Borror0]

All this is beside the point. My point is that if they cant catch something as easy as this internally and we must find it on the preview server, that they need to release the quests themselves there as well because there will obviously be bugs in them as well that we need to find before live.
False. Your original point was:


Since even the most simple QA pass would have caught this, I'm left to wonder why the new Abbott raid script wasnt even tested once internally or on Mournlands.

Based on this kind of QA manpower (none)
I pointed out how that was false. Don't try to act as if you said something else.

All this is beside the point. My point is that if they cant catch something as easy as this internally and we must find it on the preview server, that they need to release the quests themselves there as well because there will obviously be bugs in them as well that we need to find before live.
There will be, potentially, more bugs to be found on the preview server that won't have been seen in internal QA. True.

The question is whether or not revealing the quests prior to that will have a more positive or negative effect than not.

[stockwizard5]

My point is simple. The flagship raids should not be broken in (or because of) a new mod.

There has to be at least one round of representative testing that can check to make sure they can be completed, rewarded, and repeated as intended. I would not open them to preview but at least let one group that is capable of actually completing them do so, get reward, go on timer, and come off timer before letting it go live.

This has clearly not happened for a long time now ...

[Yuhjn]

False. Your original point was:I pointed out how that was false. Don't try to act as if you said something else.

There will be, potentially, more bugs to be found on the preview server that won't have been seen in internal QA. True.

The question is whether or not revealing the quests prior to that will have a more positive or negative effect than not.


You cut my origional point right out of that quote! Lol. You literally cut and pasted everything but my origional point. Nice, better than the nightly news.

So a refresher since either you are intentionally trying to misquote me or just didnt read the post you're responding to:

First the observation:
Obviously no one internally ran this new script in a QA environment. If they had, it would have been caught.

Now the point:
They need to open the obviously untested content so that we dont have a repeat of one of the many major problems they've had in the past related to releasing untested content.


Then of course at the end of your email you say YOUR point is, what mine really was...

I'm sorry if I got your shorts in a knot by pointing out the obvious lack of internal testing, but try to stop being such a fanboi for just a second and you'll see I'm right.

[Borror0]

So a refresher since either you are intentionally trying to misquote me or just didnt read the post you're responding to:
Do you know what emphasis is?

First the observation:
Obviously no one internally ran this new script in a QA environment. If they had, it would have been caught.
Clearly false. Did you read my first reply to you at all?

Note: Emphasis mine

Now the point:
They need to open the obviously untested content so that we dont have a repeat of one of the many major problems they've had in the past related to releasing untested content.
Many things to say here so I'll go with short comments:

You don't know which content was tested.
They clearly have some test server, other than the preview server.
If there is any content that was tested thoroughly, it is most likely the the new quest we don't have access to.
If you think a problem must have been simply "not discovered" on the test server, then you are only showing your lack of knowledge on the topic at hand. It is quite possible for a bug to not exist on the test server and suddenly arise on the live servers (scale, load, etc.)
As I said earlier, there is a possibility that a bug will be discovered on live but that does not mean Turbine has to open the quests on the preview server. Clearly, there is a reason as to why the quests are locked. It is left to them to decided if the risk of new bugs outweigh the benefits of hiding the content from us.


Then of course at the end of your email you say YOUR point is, what mine really was...
Email...? Huh? You lost me.

[...] stop being such a fanboi for just a second and you'll see I'm right.
Me? A fanboi? Wow.

I know very few who criticized Turbine more than I did. Someone on the forums even said that I deserved the title of "Mr. Negative of '08". Can't remember who said that though.I only Qwijy wanted to be the second most negative after me. Oh, and even Keeper knows how hard it is to not get any criticism from me (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2144400&postcount=26).

I don't know how you drew that conclusion, exactly.

Fanboi? I have heard it all.

[Yuhjn]

You don't know which content was tested.

We know what content WASNT tested :)


If there is any content that was tested thoroughly, it is most likely the the new quest we don't have access to.

We're not talking about thoroughly testing, we're talking about the most rudimentry testing which would have revealed that the quest was not completable at all, under any circumstances.


If you think a problem must have been simply "not discovered" on the test server, then you are only showing your lack of knowledge on the topic at hand. It is quite possible for a bug to not exist on the test server and suddenly arise on the live servers (scale, load, etc.)

Oh, so the 2 rocks per throw bug was related to load... that's a good one.


Fanboi? I have heard it all.

Seems to me the only explanation since you seem to be defending the indefensible.



Let me clear up what appears to be a misconception you and others who have posted into this thread have.

The internal QA system is a match for what will be deployed live. Eladrin's version of the system, which he says worked, would have been a development system. Development systems are not matches to live deployments. They often diverge quite a bit during development. Once the changes have been checked into source control and then integrated into the main release branch, a copy of the system is uploaded to the internal QA system as a release candidate. This system is then tested, based on a list of issues known to be fixed or added.

Eladrin did a great deal of work on the Asc. Chamber for this mod so it would have come up in the list of things to test internally.

The bug then appears in the live environment, which means it was pushed to preview without that issue being hit by the QA team.

The fact that this bug wasnt caught tells me this raid was not tested internally by Turbine's QA team (which is most likely 1 guy, who's probably badly overworked as it is).



I mean this is classic software development, but we're only hearing from the developer. Managment comes to the team and says "we have a bug in the field". The developer then says "worked when I checked it in" and looks over at the QA guy.

The QA guy, being the process-driven quality control type guy he is, looks into the bug list and prints out the entry for testing of the issue (Issue 13246: Rescripting of Asc Chmbr).

From there the 3 of them, and possibly a deployment engineer, if there is one at Turbine (small teams sometimes just use the QA guy for this task) try to figure out what happened.


Possible reasons this bug existed in preview:
The change was never integrated into the release branch. If this was the case, QA should have caught it when they tested issue 13246.
The change had a bug which didnt show up on Eladrin's system for one reason or another. Again, QA would have caught it during testing.
That's about the only possibilities for a bug like this.
Yes it's true some bugs can show up in a deployed system that didnt show up in QA. These types of issues have to do with things (like you said) with scaling and load. But suggesting that this bug is of that type shows a lack of understanding of what scaling and load change between a QA and production deployment. They certainly dont cause 2 rocks to be consumed when a player throws one at an asteroid.

Clearly the abbot script was not tested internally.


Now you seemed to also imply that the new content would have been tested even if the abbott was not. Perhaps. But in response I would point you to the very long list of serious bugs found in new quests during live deployments in DDO in the past.

Historically the number of raids that got exploited after release is higher than the number of raids that didnt. Turbine's track record for large issues in their top content upon release is very bad.

Abbott, Reaver, Shroud, DQ, VON. As far as I can tell only Hound Titan and VOD didnt have people exploiting them horribly upon live release. (unless you count the exploits in the forge, but I'm not).


So what will do more damage, as you say, releasing content early on preview so that it all gets spoiled, or releasing content without preview (read testing) and have the player base exploiting the heck out of it?

[SimVerg]

Abbott, Reaver, Shroud, DQ, VON. As far as I can tell only Hound Titan and VOD didnt have people exploiting them horribly upon live release. (unless you count the exploits in the forge, but I'm not).


Ahem (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Module_7_Patch_2_Official#Other)


It is no longer possible to abandon the The Xoriat Hound and Horned Devil Raid raid quests.

[Borror0]

We know what content WASNT tested :)
How do you know? Did they tell you?

We're not talking about thoroughly testing, we're talking about the most rudimentry testing which would have revealed that the quest was not completable at all, under any circumstances.
Do you have evidences of such?

Oh, so the 2 rocks per throw bug was related to load... that's a good one.
Um, ya. Do you have any enough knowledge in the field in question to refute me beyond doubt or you are assuming with so-called "common sense"?

Eladrin's version of the system, which he says worked, would have been a development system.
If you consider Lamannia a "QA environment", then why Mournland isn't?

Let me say it again for you: there has been multiple reports that the room worked fine on ML. Unless you can come up with an explanation as to why the room was broke on Lamannia, then your argument has no legs and any attempt to make an argument based on this premise is fundamentally flawed.

[...] (which is most likely 1 guy, who's probably badly overworked as it is).
Wrong (http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=189355), again (http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=9728).

Seriously, stop it with the baseless arguments.

From there the 3 of them, and possibly a deployment engineer, if there is one at Turbine
I think there is one (http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=7006). I guess we would need to see if have any title of superiority (like Senior, Lead, etc.) to have hints of if he is the only one.

They certainly dont cause 2 rocks to be consumed when a player throws one at an asteroid.
Bugs can be very interesting. Who knows what caused the behavior.

Clearly the abbot script was not tested internally.
Baseless argument.

Now you seemed to also imply that the new content would have been tested even if the abbott was not. Perhaps.
Ever heard of Mournland? That is at least one place where it has been tested. Other than that, I am sure Thoon, Silthe and their team QA'd them.

The quests are new. Of course you want playtesters to play them to see if they are fun and QA to check if it is full of bugs.

But in response I would point you to the very long list of serious bugs found in new quests during live deployments in DDO in the past.
I will point to you to previous posts where I explained the possible reasons they got through.

Heck, if you need proofs of what I said look at the known issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178590).

[Yuhjn]

How do you know? See my above post.


Um, ya. Do you have any enough knowledge in the field in question?
Yes, are you asking for a resume or something? I have 10 years of professional development experience (lead software engineer), much of it involved in putting production software into the field as client/server based entertainment systems. A good amount of my time goes into thinking about things exactly like this in my own deployed systems.



Let me say it again for you: there has been multiple reports that the room worked fine on ML

Oh really? Care to cite this reference? You are saying two things here. First is that this re-scripted abbott showed up on ML. Second is that it worked there. Please cite sources for this rumor.





I guess we would need to see if have any title of superiority (like Senior, Lead, etc.) to have hints of if he is the only one.

Codog is a systems engineer. He writes code. A deployment engineer is generally in charge of managing the source branches, doing the builds, and deploying to the various environments (development (if these are not local to each developer), QA, ML, Lam, live, etc)


Who knows what caused the behavior.

I dont know, I'm speculating as to what caused it. But it's irrelevant as to why. The point is Turbine has a problem with major bugs going live, and here is another example of something getting through that was trivial to find. Like not having a timer on the Abbot raid when it first came out.

At this point I've totally lost the frame of whatever "argument" you were trying to make. It feels more to me like you are attacking me because you dont like me calling Turbine out on their failure to catch the simplist of bugs in the biggest of encounters. You seem to be trying to argue with details of my posts like exactly how many QA guys Turbine has. Does it matter if it's 1 or 2? Is it relavant to the point of the conversation? No. However many they have (apparently 2) it's not enough and obviously never has been.

My point is has has always been that 1: Turbine isnt getting the testing done in house. And 2: They need to release the new dungeons so the get tested for problems. During the conversation I added a 3rd point, which was that Turbine has a history of problems in this area.

If you want to continue to argue with me, please try to keep it somewhat relavant to what I'm saying.

[Borror0]

See my above post.
Therefore, you don't know and only assume.

First is that this re-scripted abbott showed up on ML.
The thread confirming that one has been eaten by the Cube but I have heard many rumors like that one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2179532#post2179532) myself. From ultiple sources.

Second is that it worked there.
Confirmed by Eladrin. Developers play on Mournland, as shown by Kate Paiz comment in the TTH interview.

The point is Turbine has a problem with major bugs going live, and here is another example of something getting through that was trivial to find.
Who knows how these bugs has made their way in? It is far easier to criticize from this side of the screen than theirs.

I am not saying you should not be angry if Turbine let another blatant exploit slip by but don't make claims as stupid as "Turbine don't QA their stuff".

Does it matter if it's 1 or 2?
The fact that you think they are only two is quite funny.

My point is has has always been that 1: Turbine isnt getting the testing done in house. And 2: They need to release the new dungeons so the get tested for problems. During the conversation I added a 3rd point, which was that Turbine has a history of problems in this area.
First point: Blatantly false.
Second point: They don't need to, that is your opinion drawn from the conclusion that there were too many bugs for your preference.

If you want to continue to argue with me, please try to keep it somewhat relavant to what I'm saying.
I am. Unless you deny the content of the quotes.

[Riorik]

Abbott, Reaver, Shroud, DQ, VON. As far as I can tell only Hound Titan and VOD didnt have people exploiting them horribly upon live release. (unless you count the exploits in the forge, but I'm not).



Wow. You have no idea, do you? Keep in mind, we're not allowed to talk about exploits - even ones that no longer exist. I'd guess that the nature of them would suggest the possibility of things to try in newer area's.

FAR more than merely the Titan had exploits.

I keep wanting to throw out tempting details - but I won't. I like my posting rights.
Lets just say, you're not just wrong, but you're wrong like about 15-25 different ways.

[Riorik]

Generally I'd say this about the Abbot and the Asteroid Bug.

I don't care. I think it's great that it's fixed. I don't think it really matters when it was found - Mournlands or Lammania - it doesn't matter. Fix now, lets move, please.

[Borror0]

Wow. You have no idea, do you? Keep in mind, we're not allowed to talk about exploits - even ones that no longer exist.
That rule has been changed at some point in time after the Module 6, and the wave of Shroud exploits and KK madness.

We are allowed to mention them but not go at length in ways of reproducing them.

[Ghaldar]

Me? A fanboi? Wow.

I know very few who criticized Turbine more than I did. Someone on the forums even said that I deserved the title of "Mr. Negative of '08". Can't remember who said that though.I only Qwijy wanted to be the second most negative after me. Oh, and even Keeper knows how hard it is to not get any criticism from me (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2144400&postcount=26).

I don't know how you drew that conclusion, exactly.

Fanboi? I have heard it all.

Mr negative hrmm sounds like Dane quote their.....considering he was the most vocal of the pro turbine forum goers for 2 years. Anyone else miss Dane?

[Borror0]

Anyone else miss Dane?
Even though he got on my nerves by being overly pro-Turbine, the forums are not the same with him. I miss the times where he and bandyman were arguing back and forth.

Oh, and it wasn't Dane that called me that. No idea of who it was, though.

[Aspenor]

The asteroids puzzle worked fine on the QA server, but somehow when they loaded the content onto the Lamannia server a bug occurred and 2 stones were removed from your inventory for each one actually thrown.

In other words, it was tested and worked fine on Mournlands.

[Aspenor]

Mr negative hrmm sounds like Dane quote their.....considering he was the most vocal of the pro turbine forum goers for 2 years. Anyone else miss Dane?

Nope. Every once in a while I get to argue with Dane over on the Wizards of the Coast forums. It's a jolly good time. :)

[Thrudh]

The asteroids puzzle worked fine on the QA server, but somehow when they loaded the content onto the Lamannia server a bug occurred and 2 stones were removed from your inventory for each one actually thrown.

In other words, it was tested and worked fine on Mournlands.

You guys say that like it's no big deal, but that's a real problem for a software company.

I'm not trying to slam Turbine devs, but either their testing environment doesn't match their production environment (this wasn't a load issue), or their process in moving code from one server to another is flawed.

Either one is bad...

[Aspenor]

You guys say that like it's no big deal, but that's a real problem for a software company.

I'm not trying to slam Turbine devs, but either their testing environment doesn't match their production environment (this wasn't a load issue), or their process in moving code from one server to another is flawed.

Either one is bad...

/shrug

**** happens

[Borror0]

Aspenor defending Turbine? :eek:

Sorry, I needed to say it.

[Aspenor]

Aspenor defending Turbine? :eek:

Sorry, I needed to say it.

LoL well it's just one of those things that happens with computer programs...

It's definitely not on the same level as tragically horrible planning, design, and decision-making (which we have plenty of).

[Yuhjn]

Wow. You have no idea, do you? Keep in mind, we're not allowed to talk about exploits - even ones that no longer exist. I'd guess that the nature of them would suggest the possibility of things to try in newer area's.

FAR more than merely the Titan had exploits.


I think you misunderstood my post.

ALL of those raids I listed had major exploits when they went live. I was saying the only raids, to my knowledge, that DIDNT get heavily exploited at release were hound, VOD, and titan, unless you count the forge exploits, which I dont, since they didnt lead to a completion.



And for the record, I dont miss Dane a bit.

[stockwizard5]

I was saying the only raids, to my knowledge, that DIDNT get heavily exploited at release were hound, VOD, and titan, unless you count the forge exploits, which I dont, since they didnt lead to a completion.

Just for the record - let's remember that titan was not completable by any method (unless it bugged) for a really long time. Visions had a huge one and hound was so easy I'm not sure how exploiting could help. Both Hound and Visions also had major loot problems.

[Pyromaniac]

The asteroids puzzle worked fine on the QA server, but somehow when they loaded the content onto the Lamannia server a bug occurred and 2 stones were removed from your inventory for each one actually thrown.

In other words, it was tested and worked fine on Mournlands.

Actually on Lamania, even when the stones were handed 1 at a time to the thrower, there were not enough stones to beat asteroids. I believe the thrower missed something like 6 of 200 stone throws.

So there was more to the Lammania problem than that. Sad though that it wasn't fully tested....

[Cendaer]

I'm sorry if I got your shorts in a knot by pointing out the obvious lack of internal testing, but try to stop being such a fanboi for just a second and you'll see I'm right.

You might be "right," but your approach to getting your point across is completely wrong. So is your adversary's, all the reputation points in the world mean nothing if those reputation points won't come down off their high horse.

It's obvious that these forums are NOT big enough to safely contain Boorror0's (yes, it's misspelled for a reason) and your egos. The two of you need to take pill. Between your self-righteousness and Booror0's haughty attitude, it's getting tiresome around here.

[moorewr]

Necro powers activate!

Is this fixed now on Lamannia?

[Big-Dex]

Necro powers activate!

Is this fixed now on Lamannia?

Yes. I can personally confirm that the asteroids can now be done, with great ease on Llama. Now will you let these thread rest in peace. :D

Dex was here. :cool: