more fun with Ideas: Summons, avatar of vulkoor, iron defenders

[crosscowy]

A very small chance (3%) of getting a special summon when you activate it would be a real fun addition..

Maybe sometimes you get a brass defender (acid spray instead of fire) for the mithril defender.
Maybe sometimes you get a shrieking defender (shout instead of fire) for the adamantite defender.
maybe sometimes a fellmetal defender (small firewall instead of grease, and napalm breath (damage over time fire damage for breath)

Sometimes avatar of vulkoor could summon a scorrow cleric, other times a scorrow wizard


Celestial dog (summon 1) could maybe sometimes summon a rat (disease bite =+tough)
Maybe a minor elemental: earth, fire, water or air as a small chance summon for the summons of level 3 and up

etc...

Maybe you make the chance an enhancement to purchase with action points.





Also just having a second option for summon monster (and rangers summon animal) of each level.. like a good aligned creature and an evil aligned one would go a long way to add variety in the summons.

Theres a HEAP of creatures in the game, why cant we summon some of them?

[hazzazz]

I agree, pen and paper, has at least 2 options for each summon monster spell. I'd like to see more modal options

Usually a "good" aligned creature and an evil one..
Summon animals usually have a few choices also, mostly neutral ones.


Summon 1 has a celestial dog, the other option is obviously the fiendish rat.

Summon 2 has a fiendish scorp, other option can be the lamanian war dog

etc etc

[Angelus_dead]

Theres a HEAP of creatures in the game, why cant we summon some of them?
You want to know the reason?

It's because summon spells are approximately useless, so spending developer time giving them more variety would also be useless.

[hazzazz]

they dont have to be useless.. and developer time would be minimal, you just use creatures already in the game.

[Angelus_dead]

they dont have to be useless..
Changing summons to be useful spells would be a different change from what is being proposed here, and would have important balance implications (because all spellcasters would get stronger, while other classes don't benefit).


and developer time would be minimal, you just use creatures already in the game.
Not quite. The extra monsters cost RAM on the client side, and managing to squeeze in more 3d models without changing system requirements involves effort from the devs. In fact, it constraints the design of all future quests, because the number of monsters they can contain is a little reduced.

[hazzazz]

Theres a difference between being useful and being overpowered. All spells should be useful in some way, some are more situational beneficial.

And the RAM need only be allocated when the summon is cast, when the spell fades the ram is cleared.

Each player can have a 1x summon of some sort out (companions count as a summon), which one it happens to be doesnt change much.

At the moment you still have 6 players or hirelings, each can have a summon and the related necessary RAM allocation at summon time for the gfx required for it, you'll only get into trouble if you allow multiple variant summonings per player. Having more options for summoning: It'd be no different to what's happening now, just better for the players.

Right now we could have a party of 6 wizards.. all with a different summon creature out. Having more options for what we have out isnt going to break the bank.

Summons can take on a few roles, whether it be semi-tanking, dps, control or caster like aoe effects etc and combinations of those.

[SneakThief]

Not quite. The extra monsters cost RAM on the client side, and managing to squeeze in more 3d models without changing system requirements involves effort from the devs. In fact, it constraints the design of all future quests, because the number of monsters they can contain is a little reduced.

It doesnt cost any more RAM on the client side if the mesh and textures are already loaded. Since DDO doesnt ever unload them (as atested by the gig of physical mem it uses after you have been playing a few hours), nothing to worry about.

[hazzazz]

maybe thats the problem then, maybe it does need to unload them.

when somebody actually casts the spell, thats when it should load them onto the clients so the creature can be viewed.

[brehobit2]

I was trying to learn more about summons (I'm a new DDO player) and I noticed here that people think they are useless. So far (level 2) they seem great when soloing. Damage soak plus a bit of damage. A really really nice use of 10 sp. So why do people feel they suck?

Mark

[Angelus_dead]

Sorry I didn't answer this faster. I saw it, but I hoped someone else would answer things...


So far (level 2) they seem great when soloing. Damage soak plus a bit of damage. A really really nice use of 10 sp. So why do people feel they suck?
Ok, the summons suck because they can't really soak damage, and can't really do damage. If a monster is so weak that he can't defeat the Celestial Dog almost instantly, then he's also weak enough for you to easily kill without casting any spell at all. There are some special situations where it can help to throw a summon into a room before you head in yourself, but they're uncommon, and it only helps a little bit.

If it appears to you that the Celestial Dog is effective at soaking or dealing damage, that's probably because you're comparing it to a novice player. Once you get a little better at the game, your combat performance will increase, but the Celestial Dog will stay the same.

An additional reason why summon spells suck will become clear once your Wizard or Sorcerer advances a few levels and gets the Suggestion or Dominate spells (although even L1 Charm Person can do it in some situations). You'll see that a single enslaved mob from within the quest is much more powerful than anything you could summon at that level.

To enslave a mob:
1. Costs the same sp as a summon spell
2. Prevents an enemy mob from attacking you
3. Gets a servant on your side, who is more dangerous than what you could summon
4. Can be cast several times in a row to get a little army


A really really nice use of 10 sp.
At low level, the spell slot is often a more important cost than the spellpoints.