"at the highest levels their ranged combat lacked a little something"

[Dorian]

In our testing of module nine, we found that while their melee ability was strong, at the highest levels their ranged combat lacked a little something

It would be cool to see all classes get a +15% speed increase for ranged combat. I'm sure no one would say that would make anyone over-powered.

You can make the ranger capstone an additional +10% to make them the best ranged characters and still give everyone else a much needed boost.

If ranged combat is "lacking at high levels", why only give rangers a fix?

(Just re-activated a few weeks ago... so sorry if I missed the first discussion on this)

[maddmatt70]

It would be cool to see all classes get a +15% speed increase for ranged combat. I'm sure no one would say that would make anyone over-powered.

You can make the ranger capstone an additional +10% to make them the best ranged characters and still give everyone else a much needed boost.

If ranged combat is "lacking at high levels", why only give rangers a fix?

(Just re-activated a few weeks ago... so sorry if I missed the first discussion on this)

You are too late sadly when the 'preview' of the ranger capstone was released this was set in stone. We will not see any possibility of meaningful change until mod 10 with the way DDO's development cycle works. I have already deleted my ranged character(14 fighter 1 ranger 1 bard) (saved my old quivers and slaying arrows) after a guildie of mine confirmed the 25% attack speed capstone on Lamannia. He ran with another player's level 20 pure ranger while his ranger was at level 18 - the level 20 ranger had 25% more attacks.

[Dorian]

You are too late sadly when the 'preview' of the ranger capstone was released this was set in stone. We will not see any possibility of meaningful change until mod 10 with the way DDO's development cycle works. I have already deleted my ranged character(14 fighter 1 ranger 1 bard) (saved my old quivers and slaying arrows) after a guildie of mine confirmed the 25% attack speed capstone on Lamannia. He ran with another player's level 20 pure ranger while his ranger was at level 18 - the level 20 ranger had 25% more attacks.

I warned about making the ranged "update" just for rangers... back in January:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2019201#post2019201

[maddmatt70]

I warned about making the ranged "update" just for rangers... back in January:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2019201#post2019201

Your post/thread is not about the ranger capstone but rather bab extra attack for level 20. In answer to your question of what will they do for ranged characters at level 20 Eladrin answered with the ranger capstone. Which sadly was set in stone by the time he got players feedback. He did make one response to the players feeback that eventually they were going to give fighters bow strength as a feat, but as was pointed out to him this was not enough for fighters and there was too much of a detriment to multi-class builds in general.

[Dorian]

Your post/thread is not about the ranger capstone but rather bab extra attack for level 20. In answer to your question of what will they do for ranged characters at level 20 Eladrin answered with the ranger capstone. Which sadly was set in stone by the time he got players feedback. He did make one response to the players feeback that eventually they were going to give fighters bow strength as a feat, but as was pointed out to him this was not enough for fighters and there was too much of a detriment to multi-class builds in general.

Thanks for the update.

Add to the fact that transmuting is getting nerfed (really hurt the ranged guys that can't change damage types)... I see no reason to play non-ranger based ranged character.

Is this what Turbine was looking to do? Would it be that hard to increase all ranged attacking speeds?

This sux :(

[maddmatt70]

Thanks for the update.

Add to the fact that transmuting is getting nerfed (really hurt the ranged guys that can't change damage types)... I see no reason to play non-ranger based ranged character.

This sux :(

Every ranged character now has to be pure level 20 ranger. This was the consensus of virtually everybody in the ranger capstone official thread. If it is any consolation Eladrin clearly read some of the commentary. My suspicion is we will see some changes regarding this, but with the way the development works for DDO not for some time; hence, my mod 10 comments.

[negative]

The ranger capstone still makes me angry to this day. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil, I simply can't understand how such talented dev's can consider putting something like it in-game. And that is after how long I've had to cooldown about it?

[Aesop]

The ranger capstone still makes me angry to this day. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil, I simply can't understand how such talented dev's can consider putting something like it in-game. And that is after how long I've had to cooldown about it?

/ditto

Aesop

[Strakeln]

The ranger capstone still makes me angry to this day. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil, I simply can't understand how such talented dev's can consider putting something like it in-game. And that is after how long I've had to cooldown about it?Talented, maybe.

Lazy? From the ******** shortcuts I've seen them take, very possible.

Not EVERY single piece of code has to be reuse, Devs. I know the managers like it when you can say "80% reuse!!!"... but for god's sake, consider the impact to the game before you try to impress the suits.

[Krago]

They should put extra effects on arrows.

[negative]

They should put extra effects on arrows.
Speaking of which, the change to AA force arrows is something I look at as a good change. And AA is all the more reason I can't understand the ranger capstone.

[shores11]

It would be cool to see all classes get a +15% speed increase for ranged combat. I'm sure no one would say that would make anyone over-powered.

You can make the ranger capstone an additional +10% to make them the best ranged characters and still give everyone else a much needed boost.

If ranged combat is "lacking at high levels", why only give rangers a fix?

(Just re-activated a few weeks ago... so sorry if I missed the first discussion on this)

You not only missed the first discussion thread on this but you missed the other 12 to 15 discussions in between. To reiterate my opinion on this I think that ranged combat increased speed should remain with the ranger at a capped level 20.

I would like to actually see it even more focused than what it is going to be and make it available at level 20 (capped ranger (pure class)) but also make that level 20 ranger have deepwood sniper in order to have the increased range speed.

[shores11]

Thanks for the update.


Is this what Turbine was looking to do? Would it be that hard to increase all ranged attacking speeds?

This sux :(

Hard is not the right question, should they increased all ranged attacking speeds is the right question?

Answer: NO

[negative]

I would like to actually see it even more focused than what it is going to be and make it available at level 20 (capped ranger (pure class)) but also make that level 20 ranger have deepwood sniper in order to have the increased range speed.
lol?

[maddmatt70]

You not only missed the first discussion thread on this but you missed the other 12 to 15 discussions in between. To reiterate my opinion on this I think that ranged combat increased speed should remain with the ranger at a capped level 20.

I would like to actually see it even more focused than what it is going to be and make it available at level 20 (capped ranger (pure class)) but also make that level 20 ranger have deepwood sniper in order to have the increased range speed.

This is a game based on D&D. In D&D fighters, rangers, and rogues all make excellent range combatants. If you want to play Lotro or some other MMO feel free, but I prefer DDO like D&D.

[shores11]

This is a game based on D&D. In D&D fighters, rangers, and rogues all make excellent range combatants. If you want to play Lotro or some other MMO feel free, but I prefer DDO like D&D.

You are so very wrong. Yes the game is based on D&D pen and paper and I hope and pray it always will be. However there are some things that DDO can not and in some cases should not strictly adhere to in D&D pen and paper.

I believe that class specific abilities are very good for the game and will also ensure class variety. Because not one class can do all I personally play 6 capped characters all of different classes and enjoy each of them for their specific feats and abilities.

I like the updates coming in mod 9 for all classes, great job DDO I look forward to more good questing in the future.

[Aesop]

You are so very wrong. Yes the game is based on D&D pen and paper and I hope and pray it always will be. However there are some things that DDO can not and in some cases should not strictly adhere to in D&D pen and paper.

I believe that class specific abilities are very good for the game and will also ensure class variety. Because not one class can do all I personally play 6 capped characters all of different classes and enjoy each of them for their specific feats and abilities.

I like the updates coming in mod 9 for all classes, great job DDO I look forward to more good questing in the future.

I disagree with you

[Issip]

Talented, maybe.

Lazy? From the ******** shortcuts I've seen them take, very possible.

Not EVERY single piece of code has to be reuse, Devs. I know the managers like it when you can say "80% reuse!!!"... but for god's sake, consider the impact to the game before you try to impress the suits.

I don't think the dev's that are left are in any way lazy. I'm thinking the few of them that are on hand are working their asses off. I think, more likely, Turbine is putting as much resources/man hours/head count into this DDO dev cycle to take the game to completion, add 4 levels, and release all the content we get to see all year that Blizzard puts into designing holiday hats for WoW's seasonal event.

It comes across as lazy and half thought out, but I'm thinking they just don't have the resources to be serious about making DDO a serious MMO contender.

As I've said before I think that's sad - they (Turbine management and the bean counters, not the developers) are letting this game die when it should have made a fortune - it STILL has the best combat system of any MMO I've played - 3 years after it's release!

But yes, the ranger capstone is a joke, in fact many of the capstones are - they nerf multiclass toons in a beligerant manner - looks like everyone will still be running TWF Dwarf Ranger/Rogue/Monk splashes doing more damage than a barbarian and having evasion with an AC 30 points higher than what is attanable to a fighter wearing full plate, but at least the 2 ranged bards on the server are permanatly nerfed.

[Noctus]

You are so very wrong. Yes the game is based on D&D pen and paper and I hope and pray it always will be. However there are some things that DDO can not and in some cases should not strictly adhere to in D&D pen and paper.

I believe that class specific abilities are very good for the game and will also ensure class variety. Because not one class can do all I personally play 6 capped characters all of different classes and enjoy each of them for their specific feats and abilities.

I like the updates coming in mod 9 for all classes, great job DDO I look forward to more good questing in the future.



Not pidgeonholing certain roles in a group to certain classes is the unique standing alone key feature of DDO. [cant find the proper translation of "komparativer Konkurrenzvorteil"]

Having the freedom to choose yourself how to fulfill a certain role in different ways with difference class-mixes or going pure, all leading to the same goal, just with slightly differen flavors is unique in the MMO market.

Making the only non gimpy ranged shooter a pure Ranger 20 is taking away massive amounts of diversity in builds.

[Roxie]

I don't think the dev's that are left are in any way lazy. I'm thinking the few of them that are on hand are working their asses off. I think, more likely, Turbine is putting as much resources/man hours/head count into this DDO dev cycle to take the game to completion, add 4 levels, and release all the content we get to see all year that Blizzard puts into designing holiday hats for WoW's seasonal event.

It comes across as lazy and half thought out, but I'm thinking they just don't have the resources to be serious about making DDO a serious MMO contender.

As I've said before I think that's sad - they (Turbine management and the bean counters, not the developers) are letting this game die when it should have made a fortune - it STILL has the best combat system of any MMO I've played - 3 years after it's release!

But yes, the ranger capstone is a joke, in fact many of the capstones are - they nerf multiclass toons in a beligerant manner - looks like everyone will still be running TWF Dwarf Ranger/Rogue/Monk splashes doing more damage than a barbarian and having evasion with an AC 30 points higher than what is attanable to a fighter wearing full plate, but at least the 2 ranged bards on the server are permanatly nerfed.

u most not have played on laminna yet then, there is no toon that can out dps the new bresker barb my 2 hander hits for over 500 with a blank greensteel let see a ranger do that.

[Noctus]

u most not have played on laminna yet then, there is no toon that can out dps the new bresker barb my 2 hander hits for over 500 with a blank greensteel let see a ranger do that.

Thats nice damage on a crit, but for "bring the pain potential" DPS is the factor to compare.

As in "average Damage Per Secound caused by your character while he is fighting", not
- "damage per swing", doesnt factor in different crit values and alacricity differences. So will lead to plainly wrong conclusions.
- "i get the highest crit-damage, therefor i must be the biggest damage-dealer of them all". Doesnt factor in different crit values and alacricity differences, as well as big difference in TWF to THF crits. So will lead to plainly wrong conclusions.


Some people just use the latter two ways to compare damage output, but just because they are much faster and easier to calculate, doesnt make them right.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

There really isn't much left to say about this capstone. Ranged combat is weak from level 1, for all classes. Limiting an 'upgrade' to 20th level rangers is really no incentive to grind a gimped ranged attacker through 20 levels.



Talented, maybe.

Lazy? From the ******** shortcuts I've seen them take, very possible.

Not EVERY single piece of code has to be reuse, Devs. I know the managers like it when you can say "80% reuse!!!"... but for god's sake, consider the impact to the game before you try to impress the suits.

Nah, I disagree Strake. I dont think its laziness, its lack of money or attention from Turbine that force the Dev's to reuse and go the cheap route.