Request: More Grit. More Emotion. More Passion. More Life.

[HumanJHawkins]

A balance must be struck between the diverse views and sensitivities of Turbine's customers. But as currently balanced, the game is leaning way too far toward a conservative view of what family appropriate content should be.

Please bring the game more into balance with the middle ground. Many customers want something like Age of Conan with gratuitous nudity and violence. Others want to completely "sanitize" it of both. Unfortunately right now, instead of being somewhere in the middle, the game is heavily in the "sanitized" camp. This is inappropriate for a family game.

When you cover up anything that might be deemed "sexy" for example, you invalidate normal human feelings... You cause people to feel shame for things they should be happy about. This is not wholesome. Rather, it is at least as harmful as the opposite extreme.

I know it is difficult for a company to do the right thing here... I know that the conservative side is more vocal, and more prone to threaten you. But I guarantee you will be rewarded more by the silent majority, than you will be hurt by a vocal puritanical minority. In a game that is mostly fantasy, your customers will certainly respond positively if you let their fantasies contain a little bit of all emotions, including the sexy ones.

[BLAKROC]

A balance must be struck between the diverse views and sensitivities of Turbine's customers. But as currently balanced, the game is leaning way too far toward a conservative view of what family appropriate content should be.

Please bring the game more into balance with the middle ground. Many customers want something like Age of Conan with gratuitous nudity and violence. Others want to completely "sanitize" it of both. Unfortunately right now, instead of being somewhere in the middle, the game is heavily in the "sanitized" camp. This is inappropriate for a family game.

When you cover up anything that might be deemed "sexy" for example, you invalidate normal human feelings... You cause people to feel shame for things they should be happy about. This is not wholesome. Rather, it is at least as harmful as the opposite extreme.

I know it is difficult for a company to do the right thing here... I know that the conservative side is more vocal, and more prone to threaten you. But I guarantee you will be rewarded more by the silent majority, than you will be hurt by a vocal puritanical minority. In a game that is mostly fantasy, your customers will certainly respond positively if you let their fantasies contain a little bit of all emotions, including the sexy ones.

/cheer

[NXPlasmid]

agreed

[Roman]

I went to Europe with my wife, First stop was Paris. We checked into the hotel, got to our room where I promptly plopped onto the bed and turned on the TV; and there was a stunning topless women dipping a spoon into a cup of yogurt. It was a commercial for yogurt on regular television. The next day we are at the train station waiting for our train when I look up and see a 20' billboard with another stunning beauty sans clothes. You just don't see that in America, instead we have a much greater tolerance for vulgar language and extreme violence. Eventually we become desensitized to both. Ultimately its just a vulgar attention grabbing method that results in a gradual corruption of innoscense until it means nothing.

I don't like, and I don't watch graphic horror/violence or porn, but I've always thought it bizzar that a movie showing graphic murders gets an R rating while two people doing the hoochy coochy gets an X. 17 years old to watch murder but need to be 18 to see sex. Baffeling. :confused:

Personally I think the game should not focus on either. Let the artists create the right visual mood without trying to be sensational, because ultimately, it's the intellectual stimulation that keeps me playing not cartoon boobs or excessive gore.

[Kalanth]

I can't say that I care about the censorship of sex and violence in DDO. If the next module was to have Disney characters walking around singing show tunes and we all had to find magical paint brushes to paint rainbows on the walls I would be satisfied as long as I could swing a sword once in a while. The same goes for if there was a zone where everyone walking about in S&M outfits with oddly questionable appendages that are just on this side of NC-17. All I want are D&D rules, some cool quests, and the chance to bash a head in or two. If I was concerned about the censorship and a desire for more (or less) violence, then I would be begging Turbine to add a violence meter and blood splatter, but that is the last thing I am worried about.

Course, everyone has their own opinions on this, so I don't expect you to agree. I am happy just having said my piece on this.

[transtemporal]

/not signed... for this product line

If Turbine were to create a "mature readers" MMO with adult themes (not just boobs and violence), that might be cool (and it also might be really boring "Balance Baudry's books before the auditors get here!").

But not DDO. DDO is fluffy, four-colour, high fantasy. Gritty, hard-hitting realism is low fantasy. I don't need to have a "Stop the Child Pornographers" themed mission, thank you very much. I'm even glad they took out that unecessarily ambiguous ending from "Sacrifices" where you could leave Arissa tied up. That was just... weird.

[GovtMule]

2 maidens 1 chalice quest!

edited to add: posts like this are preCISely why Jerry has turned down all my requests to be a DDOCast contributor :D

[ArkoHighStar]

For most of us this has nothing to do with what we find objectionable, but what our workplace might find objectionable, and most workplace are very conservative. Remember this isn't the game its a web site open to all, and many of us here browseat work while we do other things, and unles you have an office with a closed door, you are subject to the views of others.

[gemini26]

For most of us this has nothing to do with what we find objectionable, but what our workplace might find objectionable, and most workplace are very conservative. Remember this isn't the game its a web site open to all, and many of us here browseat work while we do other things, and unles you have an office with a closed door, you are subject to the views of others.

?? I think the post was talking about the game... Maybe I misread..

[transtemporal]

I don't like, and I don't watch graphic horror/violence or porn, but I've always thought it bizzar that a movie showing graphic murders gets an R rating while two people doing the hoochy coochy gets an X. 17 years old to watch murder but need to be 18 to see sex. Baffeling. :confused:

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the murders are simulated (= fantasy) and the sex is not (= reality). I'd also guess the rating for a real murder DVD would be a little higher than x.

[Flex]

/not signed... for this product line

If Turbine were to create a "mature readers" MMO with adult themes (not just boobs and violence), that might be cool (and it also might be really boring "Balance Baudry's books before the auditors get here!").

But not DDO. DDO is fluffy, four-colour, high fantasy. Gritty, hard-hitting realism is low fantasy. I don't need to have a "Stop the Child Pornographers" themed mission, thank you very much. I'm even glad they took out that unecessarily ambiguous ending from "Sacrifices" where you could leave Arissa tied up. That was just... weird.

You are making the OP's point very nicely about misguided sensitivity. You make the illogical leap that adding more realism by sexual references immediately signals something as disturbing as "Stop the Child Pornographers". Yet, you don't equate DDO's current theme of violence with serial killers, terrorists, or genocide. That is because it would be unreasonable to do so in a normal high fantasy setting.

Honestly, I could care less about adding more mature content. I played AoC. It had more mature themes with regard to sex and violence and it didn't matter much to me either way. Unfortunately adding a little more content that is sexually suggestive would change the rating and exclude teen players. In general that would probably be bad for the health of the game.

[Furbitor]

/not signed... for this product line

If Turbine were to create a "mature readers" MMO with adult themes (not just boobs and violence), that might be cool (and it also might be really boring "Balance Baudry's books before the auditors get here!").

But not DDO. DDO is fluffy, four-colour, high fantasy. Gritty, hard-hitting realism is low fantasy. I don't need to have a "Stop the Child Pornographers" themed mission, thank you very much. I'm even glad they took out that unecessarily ambiguous ending from "Sacrifices" where you could leave Arissa tied up. That was just... weird.

LOL!! I loved that part!! Follow an appropiate alignment, leaving her "chained" could have consequences of all players of a party. If they leave her chained and walk away, the lawful/good alignment of players in a party is dammaged, if evil players DIDNT leave her chained, they had thier alignment shifted as well.

Too many "wrong decisions" and you may find your pally is a simple fighter, and more would cause his alignments to go bad!

Regaining your alignments should be in the game, as you would need to perform ardous(many, lengthy) tasks and quest to regain the alignment you lost.

This was done Excellently in Quest of the Avatar, Ultima 4. you had to build your alignment thru many many quest and seek enlightenment at all 8 virtues.

Chain the girl!!!!! [You have lost an Eighth!, You have lost an Eighth!, You have lost an Eighth!]

Furbed :)

[branmakmuffin]

Many customers want something like Age of Conan with gratuitous nudity and violence. Others want to completely "sanitize" it of both. Unfortunately right now, instead of being somewhere in the middle, the game is heavily in the "sanitized" camp. This is inappropriate for a family game.
That is amazingly self-contradictory. "Sanitized" is exactly what you'd expect for a family game.


When you cover up anything that might be deemed "sexy" for example, you invalidate normal human feelings... You cause people to feel shame for things they should be happy about. This is not wholesome. Rather, it is at least as harmful as the opposite extreme.
I do find Turbine's hypocrisy, however, to be quite astounding. NPC females are allowed to wear alluring clothing, but it's somehow inappropriate for player character females to do so, should their players want them to. Also, notice the lack of grunting females make when shield bashing. I'm surprised they left in the female Monk audibles.

If you really want grit, passion and life, you'll get all you want if you RP.

[Lewcipher]

*sigh* It's a game you play on your computer. I can't see why there is this much discussion over boobs and murder in a make believe world. Ya want real boobs? FIND THEM IN REAL LIFE. geez

[branmakmuffin]

*sigh* It's a game you play on your computer. I can't see why there is this much discussion over boobs and murder in a make believe world. Ya want real boobs? FIND THEM IN REAL LIFE. geez
For some, easier said than done (or so I'm told).

[sephiroth1084]

I went to Europe with my wife, First stop was Paris. We checked into the hotel, got to our room where I promptly plopped onto the bed and turned on the TV; and there was a stunning topless women dipping a spoon into a cup of yogurt. It was a commercial for yogurt on regular television. The next day we are at the train station waiting for our train when I look up and see a 20' billboard with another stunning beauty sans clothes. You just don't see that in America, instead we have a much greater tolerance for vulgar language and extreme violence. Eventually we become desensitized to both. Ultimately its just a vulgar attention grabbing method that results in a gradual corruption of innoscense until it means nothing.

I don't like, and I don't watch graphic horror/violence or porn, but I've always thought it bizzar that a movie showing graphic murders gets an R rating while two people doing the hoochy coochy gets an X. 17 years old to watch murder but need to be 18 to see sex. Baffeling. :confused:

Personally I think the game should not focus on either. Let the artists create the right visual mood without trying to be sensational, because ultimately, it's the intellectual stimulation that keeps me playing not cartoon boobs or excessive gore.

Personally, I think the obsession so many have with shielding their children from nudity and graphic language is preposterous: they WILL learn sometime, often from someone painting these things as "cool" because they are taboo. And honestly, nudity is about the most natural thing there is. For the record, I am not a nudist.


A balance must be struck between the diverse views and sensitivities of Turbine's customers. But as currently balanced, the game is leaning way too far toward a conservative view of what family appropriate content should be.

Please bring the game more into balance with the middle ground. Many customers want something like Age of Conan with gratuitous nudity and violence. Others want to completely "sanitize" it of both. Unfortunately right now, instead of being somewhere in the middle, the game is heavily in the "sanitized" camp. This is inappropriate for a family game.

When you cover up anything that might be deemed "sexy" for example, you invalidate normal human feelings... You cause people to feel shame for things they should be happy about. This is not wholesome. Rather, it is at least as harmful as the opposite extreme.

I know it is difficult for a company to do the right thing here... I know that the conservative side is more vocal, and more prone to threaten you. But I guarantee you will be rewarded more by the silent majority, than you will be hurt by a vocal puritanical minority. In a game that is mostly fantasy, your customers will certainly respond positively if you let their fantasies contain a little bit of all emotions, including the sexy ones.

While I agree that I'd prefer some more adult-themed images and story arcs, but it is much easier for the designers to accommodate the crowd more inclined to censorship than those thirsty for AoC-style stuff. Which group is more likely to quit because of imagery? I can't imagine someone quitting because there isn't gratuitous blood and breasts all over the place, whereas that is not necessarily true of the other crowd.

[transtemporal]

You are making the OP's point very nicely about misguided sensitivity. You make the illogical leap that adding more realism by sexual references immediately signals something as disturbing as "Stop the Child Pornographers". Yet, you don't equate DDO's current theme of violence with serial killers, terrorists, or genocide. That is because it would be unreasonable to do so in a normal high fantasy setting.

I was exaggerating for effect. Its a thematic thing. DDO has a genre and that genre is "Superman" not "Watchmen".

Or "Benny Hill" for that matter. :)

[transtemporal]

This was done Excellently in Quest of the Avatar, Ultima 4. you had to build your alignment thru many many quest and seek enlightenment at all 8 virtues.

It was done well in Jade Empire as well. The "evil" path wasn't really evil but you were more willing to do what had to be done to complete your missions, whereas the "good" path had more constraints. Plus you got to have a awkward faux lesbian relationship with the princess that was too hilarious.

Fable and Fable 2 alignment systems were silly, but still fun.