The End of DDO... or the Beginning?

[Holgar]

Make no mistake. Turbine must realize that many of its older customers are on the way out. For me, the decision (or strongly implied assertion) that there will be no Druids or Half-Orcs, which I've been looking forward to for so long, is just the icing. Of course, I'm playing LOTRO now so no big loss for Turbine on my part.

However, I kinda sorta get the feeling that the loss of a LOT OF US is not going to mean much in the long run.

You see, folks, in case ya ain't noticed, this game is no longer being made for YOU. It's being made for the next generation. And who might that generation be, you might ask? Mark my words, but almost everything added to this game lately has been to fill out the world for new players. But wait, you say! How can they EVER get new customers.

Consider this. If the "vast & mysterious" project is simply a console version of DDO, then guess what that makes us?

Obsolete Playtesters!

Viva la new generation! ;)

Holgar

[Lorien_the_First_One]

People keep bringing up the console thing, except the devs came right out and said their console project was NOT DDO. Oh sure, they could have been lying, but considering people at the time were suggesting the port to console they didn't really have a reason to lie.

Seems like tinfoil hat time to me...

[aldan]

the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

[GovtMule]

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/xperryxbitex/GIFs/DramaticChipmunk.gif

[GunboatDiplomat]

Well I wish Turbine the best of luck in getting new players. Their marketing pushes have apparently and unfortunately been a failure thus far in achieving a significant new player injection.

Their decision to focus nearly entirely getting new players at the ex[pense of high level conmtent is about to cost them a bucketload of veteran players though.

I really do hope that doesn't have a kcock on effect which kills the game. So maybe myself and others can come back in a year and two when they have some new content for us to try.

Assuming I get bored of Aoc ofc.


the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

The chances of getting funding for a DDO2 would be minimal given the extremely disappointing performance of DDO.

[Wheredidigo]

the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

/signed

I agree.....my thoughts are that they aquired the advertising rights back from Atari or will be aquireing them soon and once that happens they will come out with some sort of DDO 2 that is completely based off of 4e because that is what WotC would obviously want.

[Archetype]

...once that happens they will come out with some sort of DDO 2 that is completely based off of 4e because that is what WotC would obviously want.

:( [vomits a bit in mouth at this idea] :(

So...this theoretical DDO2 will be *another* WoW clone (like the market needs another of those)? Besides, the whole WotC staff already plays World of Warcraft, which is why they emasculated the paper D&D game into its nonrecognizable 4th Edition form recently (and also cost themselves a ton of "old school" paying customers, as well as the respect of the gaming industry.)

Pass.

[Geonis]

My thought for the reason behind both the delay of MOD 9 and the "Vast and Mysterious" is the development of quest building tools, so that eveery quest doesn't need to be hand crafted anymore, allowing for much more content in a shorter period of time.

:eek:

[Tomas_Laren]

If they were going to make DDO 2, why would they bother to try and fix a lot of the UI problems, cut down the lag and revamp the look of the game?

I'm thinking maybe they're finally getting smart and setting up for an expansion, it'll get something with DDO on it onto the shelves so people see it exists and give some new content, probably looking at the favoured soul and warlord in it and who knows, maybe more races, spells and weapons also

[Kalanth]

Ironically, 4th edition is horrible for an MMO built like DDO and is perfect for a turn based strategy game more like Final Fantasy Tactics. I would love to see a DDO 2, but I am not sure how well it would play out if based on 4th edition.

I have no problem with a console version of DDO because I won't be made obsolete by it. I have played 3 years compared to 0 years on console. I have a leg up knowing exactly how to complete the quests in the game while console players would not. I have a treasure hoard that a great wyrm dragon would be proud of while console players would not. Sure, they would increase in knowledge and power, but they would always be behind the curve to those that have played this game since launch.

No, I say the super secret is that there is no super secret. The Dev's over at Turbine are just playing off of Durk's Got a Secret in that Durk never really had a secret at all.

[Darth_Sizzle]

...the decision (or strongly implied assertion) that there will be no Druids or Half-Orcs, which I've been looking forward to for so long, is...

the most disappointing thing, for me.

I was really hoping V&M would include one or both of these being added in Mod 9

[antonio123]

My thought for the reason behind both the delay of MOD 9 and the "Vast and Mysterious" is the development of quest building tools, so that eveery quest doesn't need to be hand crafted anymore, allowing for much more content in a shorter period of time.

:eek:

I agree here...I am guessing that it would be the release of the developers tool kit so players could create their on mods just like in NWN. That way they will spend even less time on creating new content.

I doubt the vast and mysterious is DDO console as I think they already mentioned that it is not. Some said that the "V&M" would be transaction based business model, but they already said that the new RMT manager hire is for a new game.

[akla_thornfist]

My thought for the reason behind both the delay of MOD 9 and the "Vast and Mysterious" is the development of quest building tools, so that eveery quest doesn't need to be hand crafted anymore, allowing for much more content in a shorter period of time.

:eek:

kate said in the interview that this was not on the horizon.

[Darth_Sizzle]

...I am guessing that it would be the release of the developers tool kit so players could create their on mods just like in NWN.

In the interview Kate specifically says that they are not actually working on this at all right now. More or less she said "it would be neat, but very difficult."

[kingfisher]

No, I say the super secret is that there is no super secret. The Dev's over at Turbine are just playing off of Durk's Got a Secret in that Durk never really had a secret at all.

well if they are gonna play it that way i will NEVER free Arlos again

take that turbine

[Lerincho]

kate said in the interview that this was not on the horizon.

maybe she was just thinking about U2's new album "No Line on the Horizon"

[Tomas_Laren]

I think vast and mysterious is their way of saying that they're not going to tell us absolutely everything that's coming up in the new mod, they want to have a few surprises for us... cuz really, who wants to be told what they're getting for christmas a few weeks before opening their presents?

[ShaeNightbird]

DDO 2? I remember Everquest 2. :eek:

Apparently people are playing it, but it never measured up to Everquest in the opinion of many of the long term players who ran the trial, and were very disappointed. But then Sony is reviled among the EQ community for many reasons, and rightly so.

Nothing Turbine has ever done rivals the dispicable behaviour exhibited by Sony concerning the EQ fanbase, but that's a tale for another day. However, EQ 2 split EQ fans, and a large percentage of people left altogether because of Sony policies in general, myself being one of them.

[Issip]

They officially announced no Druids or Half Orcs? Looks to me like the game is dying. I had hopes that the super-secret thing was a huge expansion doubling the size of the game when they raised the level cap to 20. It's pretty obvious they are raising the level cap with the absolute minimum (or even less than the minimum) of new content or advertising. They are slopping together the last piece of the game on a shoestring budget so they can pull resources to other projects and hopefully leave the servers up to milk a little income off this game while they develop something else that they think will be more profittable.

This is very sad, as DDO still has the best MMO combat engine I've played and excellent graphics even after 3 years. With such an awesome base engine I was really thinking this game would grow as more people learned about it and tried it.

I hope I'm wrong, but it appears the super-secret will not be revealed until the day they pull the plug on the game for good.

[antonio123]

In the interview Kate specifically says that they are not actually working on this at all right now. More or less she said "it would be neat, but very difficult."

I just heard the podcast of the interview and it appears that it is not coming anytime soon. I stand corrected.

[Thrudh]

well if they are gonna play it that way i will NEVER free Arlos again

Then you can't leave (until you free Arlos)

[Gordo]

Create an expansion. I'll pay the $50 in advance.

[Donnie]

Well I wish Turbine the best of luck in getting new players. Their marketing pushes have apparently and unfortunately been a failure thus far in achieving a significant new player injection.

Wow, you must have missed the huge influx of players the last few months. Ive seen more new players in the last 2 months than I have the last 2 years! About 1-2 months back Korthos was packed, and more recently Gianthold is a sea of unguilded players at times. On Argo at least.

Most veteran players miss that though as they are running capped characters and Shroud all of the time.

In the end, my thinking is close to the Op's. I think its neccessary too, becasue the game needs fresh meat. Veteran players cant keep this game afloat on their own, and in many ways they hinder the progression of the game. They are too used to the way things have been and have a hard time with changes.

For V&M im betting on a XBOX release OR a relaunch of some sort. Hopefully the new improved Atari doesnt make the same mistakes they did in the past. Even though ive been very unhappy with their involvement with DDO, ill give their new management one last shot.

[moorewr]

the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

Nope.

[Shaamis]

the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

I would believe this more than the OP's remark, due to the fact that a lot of the development in the remaining days before launch were hurried to appease Atari's need for REVENUE. It didnt stop Atari from tanking, but DDO is the legacy that remains.

I'm almost to teh point to start yelling for DDO2

[baddax]

Create an expansion. I'll pay the $50 in advance.

/sign

[bellack]

the vast and mysterious she speaks of is DDO 2. there is no way to fix all the unbalances within this current model and not aggrevate the player base. DDO 2 is coming to a theater near you.

But doesn't that mean that DDO would have had to be successfull (as far as bringing in the money goes) in order for them to make a DDO2?

[Nott]

Create an expansion. I'll pay the $50 in advance.
I would also be happy to pay $50 for an expansion of content... but in advance as you suggest? Not given Turbine's track record for getting DDO things out in a timely manner. Between inflation and time value of money, that $50 in advance could cost several hundred when all is said and done.

[kingfisher]

[QUOTE=Donnie;2163106]Wow, you must have missed the huge influx of players the last few months. Ive seen more new players in the last 2 months than I have the last 2 years! About 1-2 months back Korthos was packed, and more recently Gianthold is a sea of unguilded players at times. On Argo at least.
QUOTE]


lots on ghallanda too. 5 first timers in one hound pug this week. fun stuff

[Damionic]

So at the moment V&M (this v&m IMHO is like telling 4-6 year olds that cake is V&M)

There are a few contenders for V&M

1.DDO2: If this is the case then It better NOT be NWN2!

2.DDO Xbox 360: This is not going to Kill the game as it makes good marketing sence..even (Champions Online) is doing it.

3.Expansion Pack: Again not a bad idea as DDO badly needs love.

4.No Idea: If this is just a slip up then TELL US!

[moorewr]

I would believe this more than the OP's remark, due to the fact that a lot of the development in the remaining days before launch were hurried to appease Atari's need for REVENUE. It didnt stop Atari from tanking, but DDO is the legacy that remains.

I'm almost to teh point to start yelling for DDO2

Wasted breath. Why not fight for something that might happen instead?

[Deadz]

Look..

My wife asks me when i going to do this weekend.. and i say well here is my list of awesome stuff I'm going to do around the house. Here are my plans... I might not get to them today, but i will get to them... Oh and then this came up, and then that came up..

Guess what, i still haven't done anything on the list.. but i keep telling her i will, and she keeps dealing with me..

You are my wife
I am turbine....

[Gnorbert]

I am a new player. Just joined a few weeks ago. I'm loving the style. I love being able to play 3.x edition. For a computer game to hold true to the D&D style of mechanics, well represented in a real time play experience is really cool.

I think the release of 4th edition is helping DDO and I'm on board for anything they have planned.

[sjwalker1973]

What's on the horizon for Atari is Champions online. DDO is a sad footnote in their stable of MMO games and it isn't even on their radar. Turbine made a huge mistake of going to Atari for the publishing and marketing of the game. They obviously didn't think Atari would stick it to them. Um Turbine, you're a small fish in a very big pond and Atari has seen better days. You just picked the wrong company to partner with in this one.

[suitepotato]

To keep the veteran player base which has been here longest and INVESTED the most in Turbine...



Triple content across all levels.
Triple the number of explorer areas across all levels.
Make actions along the course of your play have consequences later on in a Choose Your Own Adventure way so that simple combinatorics causes a dramatic increase in complexity vis a vis role playing. If you kill a given NPC, his friends should hate your guts five levels later and be gunning for you. If you take a specific piece of loot and have it, an NPC sooner or later should ask you about it. The factions should actually contend with each other as real factions would.
Stop changing game mechanics constantly with weak excuses. Don't tell us you meant for something to work differently. Either it works the way you meant or you don't go live with it. If it is already out and being used as is, leave it alone.
Triple the number of monsters. We have a pathetically small subset of the huge number of monsters found across multiple monster books.
Ultimately, make all quests auto-difficulty levelling. There's no reason that a team of level 16-20 characters traipsing through Water Works should not face a random beholder, orc scouting parties, a sudden ambush by slimes coming through a wall by the dozens... A devil or demon could show up at Searing Heights. It's not that hard.

I put the top ones in my opinion at the top. Give us stuff to do and make the stuff vary depending on our choices. Right now, it's more deterministic than a set of dominos.

[ccheath776]

I do not think DDO is dying.

I can tell you many people who left DDO to go to AOC or warhammer, came back.
Including an entire guild we created specifically for AOC dropped that game and came back here.

You have to understand there are very few RTC mmo's like DDO is. And despite quest quality or controversial changes, it is still the absolute best combat system available.
Most MMO's are click and wait models. BOOOORING

I love DDO. The fact that I came back after a year off only highlights its appeal.
I hope DDO is here another ten years down the line.

I do not think you will see a DDO2. If anything a marked expansion of DDO or a massive graphical overhaul or some exciting new mechanic like maybe implementing version 4 rules.

But there is something missing in all of this. YOU.
What can YOU do for DDO to make it more popular?

Hold live events on your server - Designate a night that for two hours everyone does a certain quest or chain of quests.
Invite a friend.
Go to another server and start over at level 1 and try to work your way up.
Build a story with friends by following the DDO storyline quests - yes they do exist.

One of the things I have noticed as I am a specialist on community management is the low participation in the community.
Guilds should be more open to new players or old players who come back and get them more involved.
Some people should take the initiative and have live events.


Really in the end this game depends on the community involvement.

[Darth_Sizzle]

To keep the veteran player base which has been here longest and INVESTED the most in Turbine...



Triple content across all levels.
Triple the number of explorer areas across all levels.
Make actions along the course of your play have consequences later on in a Choose Your Own Adventure way so that simple combinatorics causes a dramatic increase in complexity vis a vis role playing. If you kill a given NPC, his friends should hate your guts five levels later and be gunning for you. If you take a specific piece of loot and have it, an NPC sooner or later should ask you about it. The factions should actually contend with each other as real factions would.
Stop changing game mechanics constantly with weak excuses. Don't tell us you meant for something to work differently. Either it works the way you meant or you don't go live with it. If it is already out and being used as is, leave it alone.
Triple the number of monsters. We have a pathetically small subset of the huge number of monsters found across multiple monster books.
Ultimately, make all quests auto-difficulty levelling. There's no reason that a team of level 16-20 characters traipsing through Water Works should not face a random beholder, orc scouting parties, a sudden ambush by slimes coming through a wall by the dozens... A devil or demon could show up at Searing Heights. It's not that hard.

I put the top ones in my opinion at the top. Give us stuff to do and make the stuff vary depending on our choices. Right now, it's more deterministic than a set of dominos.

Fantasize much?

[Mindspat]

2.DDO Xbox 360: This is not going to Kill the game as it makes good marketing sence..even (Champions Online) is doing it.

Last I heard Champions was not recieving prioritization in development for the 360 and a launch date for the console has been temporarily shelved. It now falls into the same category of Age of Conan does in terms of coming out for the 360.

[Hafeal]

Turbine didn't make a "huge mistake" of going to Atari. Atari, wholly owned by Infrogrames, obtained the rights to Dungeons & Dragons from Hasbro by way of a buyout in January, 2001 (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68329&p=irol-newsArticleIR&ID=148123&highlight= and then through reacquisition (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68329&p=irol-newsArticlePR&ID=718688&highlight= .

Turbine had little to no say in the matter.


What's on the horizon for Atari is Champions online. DDO is a sad footnote in their stable of MMO games and it isn't even on their radar. Turbine made a huge mistake of going to Atari for the publishing and marketing of the game. They obviously didn't think Atari would stick it to them. Um Turbine, you're a small fish in a very big pond and Atari has seen better days. You just picked the wrong company to partner with in this one.

[Damionic]

Last I heard Champions was not recieving prioritization in development for the 360 and a launch date for the console has been temporarily shelved. It now falls into the same category of Age of Conan does in terms of coming out for the 360.

If you check IGN
http://uk.ign.com/
Then the ETA's For "PC" and "Xbox 360" are the same times.
For UK Q3 2009
For US September 30th

[Boldrin]

Sadly it's the end for me, but it's all good there's a dozen teenagers waiting to take my spot :) Turbine will get by.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Wow, you must have missed the huge influx of players the last few months. Ive seen more new players in the last 2 months than I have the last 2 years! About 1-2 months back Korthos was packed, and more recently Gianthold is a sea of unguilded players at times. On Argo at least.

Most veteran players miss that though as they are running capped characters and Shroud all of the time.

In the end, my thinking is close to the Op's. I think its neccessary too, becasue the game needs fresh meat. Veteran players cant keep this game afloat on their own, and in many ways they hinder the progression of the game. They are too used to the way things have been and have a hard time with changes..

Yes I did miss a 'sea' of new players. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe turbines strategy of getitng new players at the expense of old will work and is working.

Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it though.

Theres a very specific reason for this. The interests of Turbine and of the DDO community are not the same.

Turbine is interested in one thing - making money. The community's interest is in having a richer game experience in various different ways, most particularly having enough content to play. For the newer players, thats not a problem as theres lots of content they're not so familair with and in any case there's lots of builds to experiment with too.

For the older players, well we've already banged on about that enough.

Now I don't know what sort of whacky corporate marketing logic seems to brainwashed some people into believing that 'whats good for Turbine is good for DDO!!!'

BS.

If WoW offered to buy out DDO to shut it down they'd do it in a heartbeat if they could turn a good profit on the deal and they believed it was in their strategic interest. And screw the players and the community.

DDO likely turns over a tidy profit for Turbine at this stage, even though they may have lost on the launch. How do I know this? Because if it kept costing them money after all this time they'd shut it down.

But making a 'bit of money' is not enough. They've got to answer to the demands of the owners, increasing shareholder value.

That means increasing the subscribing playerbase. Its not about 'saving the game' from oblivion, its about making more money.

If this works for them, what makes you think they'll plough it back into DDO, a niche game thats never going to be that big? They might re-invest it. Or they might put it into another game. Or pay it out in dividends to the shareholders. Or they might blow it all on 'client entertainment expenses' in strip clubs in Houston.... at lunchtime! (ok they're not Enron but I always thought this was one of the funniest stories form that corporate body)

Whether or not the turbine DDO team really 'care' about the game is irrelevant. With the possible excpetion of the devs they certainly don't care about it in the same way you and I do.

And this is whats at the heart of the matter here.

A business decision was made to pursue new players at the expense of the older established playerbase.

Fine, and I've made a personal business decision to cancel both my european and US subscriptions.

If they ever introduce some high level content (don't bet on it boys) I'll definitely be back.

I'm sure turbine top brass are crying themselves to sleep at the thought of me leaving. My 30 bucks a month alone probably kept them in gold cufflinks and top hats. http://community.codemasters.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif