Ranged to-hit...

[Olympia]

In the process of rolling up a ranged ranger, but want to maximize STR for damage output. In my current plan, my DEX at 16 would only be 30. This would couple with a +2 to-hit for elven enchantment and favored enemy enhancements when applicable. In addition, I'd be using a +5 weapon, and have PBS and WF: ranged.

Would this type of makeup allow me to actually hit things on elite content? Or do I need to pump DEX more?

My DEX at 16 is low since I plan to go 18 STR, 16 dex and put all level-up attribute bonuses into STR:

18 STR + 4 levels + 2 tome + 6 item = 30 STR
16 DEX + 5 enhancements + 3 tome + 6 item = 30 DEX

Also, I found this:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1464624&postcount=640

old link...does this still represent the ranged to-hit bonuses according to BAB?

[WeiQuinn]

If you are going pure Ranger, you will have a BaB of 16 at level 16. Couple this with your Dexterity bonus, Elven enhancements, feats and + 5 bow and you should be golden.

16 bab + 10 dex + 5 bow + 2 enhancement + 1 wf:ranged (+1 pbs) = +34 (35) before the die roll.

[Blind_Skwerl]

and that's not considering the buffs. No problems there.

[Olympia]

thx for the responses...still, i would appreciate confirmation that this type of to-hit (plus normal buffs) is sufficient to be useful on elite raid content. does anyone have first-hand experience? i do not need to be uber awesome and lead kill count or anything like that (i know that this is unlikely with ranged comabt as it is) but i do not wish to be useless, either.

also, would you find it reasonable to expend a feat on precision to use situationally when you need procs (disruption, smiting, etc.)? or will you be hitting frequently enough (say, on an 8 and up) that it's not worth it...

[Blind_Skwerl]

I do not have a ranged character running raids yet, but I do have one up and comming. I started 18 dex/str, rest into con. I'll let you know as soon as I get in there. ;) I doubt that precision will be needed.

[SqtYork]

I have a capped elven ranger AA build. I hit the pit fiend in the shroud on normal on a 3 or better last time I thought to look for the lowest successful hit roll. In general I miss more often because I am trying to avoid being hit and rotate too far left or right.
Generally the to hit is not as much of a concern as the with what do I hit it with, and when to use manyshot.

When and what you are using is a bigger concern than can I hit it :)

I use precision (+4 to hit / half damage) only when I am trying to disable the living scrolls in Kobold so I don't inadvertantly kill them while I am trying to disable them with weaking of enfeeblement.

[Olympia]

I have a capped elven ranger AA build. I hit the pit fiend in the shroud on normal on a 3 or better last time I thought to look for the lowest successful hit roll.

kk...this helps. if you hit with a 3 on normal, any idea how that would translate to elite? maybe need a 9 or so? or does it scale up much more than that?

secondly, what is your DEX to obtain those to-hit scores?

thx!

[Blind_Skwerl]

precision is good for those stat damagers and effect weapons. Helps prevent taking aggro.

[QuantumFX]

thx for the responses...still, i would appreciate confirmation that this type of to-hit (plus normal buffs) is sufficient to be useful on elite raid content. does anyone have first-hand experience? i do not need to be uber awesome and lead kill count or anything like that (i know that this is unlikely with ranged comabt as it is) but i do not wish to be useless, either.

You will do fine with stationary archery. The only time you may have trouble is if you wind up running around in the DQ raid. Tumbleweed can help, so can switching over to a Holy Longbow of Destruction for a couple shots. Trust me, the damage boost from a 30+ STR is worth it.

[Olympia]

You will do fine with stationary archery.

boldface mine.

do you make this distinction because i do not mention SotR? Or do you say so because ranged fire is supposed to give bonuses for standing still according to this old dev post. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1464624&postcount=640)

i hate to be a nitpicker...but i don't wanna create this character and run him to 16 only to find him way gimpy (beyond what i already know he'll be as a ranged guy). is there someone out there who can definitively state that they have a ranged ranger who runs elite raid content on occasion and can contribute more than some nominal amount? and if so, would they expect any problems hitting mobs/bosses with a 30 DEX along with the other bonuses i noted above?

for instance, i'd love to see someone say, "i have an elven 16 ranger with a 34 DEX who runs elite VoD and Hound all the time and he has no trouble hitting things at all. you'll be fine with a 30." then i could stop pestering y'all and start leveling. :)

thx for the help!

[maddmatt70]

I have a capped elven ranger AA build. I hit the pit fiend in the shroud on normal on a 3 or better last time I thought to look for the lowest successful hit roll. In general I miss more often because I am trying to avoid being hit and rotate too far left or right.
Generally the to hit is not as much of a concern as the with what do I hit it with, and when to use manyshot.



There has always been some issues of misfires occuring when moving while using ranged combat. My recommendation is to not move because you are increasing your misfires when ranged fighting and also your to hit will go down by 4 while moving this should fix your to hit issues. If you are concerned about surviveability in the shroud and are not madstone my recommendation is to pick up fire prot for ranger and have this on yourself. A more straightforward alternative is to just pick up several fire protection potions. Just quaff a potion if you get hit by a fireball. Also have faith in your healers. The clerics in ddo are for the most part really good and almost all understand the shroud very well.

After you get some more experience in DDO and a better comfort level in swapping between ranged and melee combat and with the shroud. Try meleeing on Harry until prior to the blades are about to come in (make sure your healers know that you will be jumping out so they don't target their mass cures on you) and then jump out and manyshot Harry. Continuing ranging until Harry flies away. Do this every round. Your dps and contribution will go up for the party and your survivability should still be excellent.

[maddmatt70]

boldface mine.

do you make this distinction because i do not mention SotR? Or do you say so because ranged fire is supposed to give bonuses for standing still according to this old dev post. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1464624&postcount=640)

i hate to be a nitpicker...but i don't wanna create this character and run him to 16 only to find him way gimpy (beyond what i already know he'll be as a ranged guy). is there someone out there who can definitively state that they have a ranged ranger who runs elite raid content on occasion and can contribute more than some nominal amount? and if so, would they expect any problems hitting mobs/bosses with a 30 DEX along with the other bonuses i noted above?

for instance, i'd love to see someone say, "i have an elven 16 ranger with a 34 DEX who runs elite VoD and Hound all the time and he has no trouble hitting things at all. you'll be fine with a 30." then i could stop pestering y'all and start leveling. :)

thx for the help!

I didn't have issues. I ran Cavity my old ranged fighter in elite shrouds numerous times and Cavity had a 34 dexterity. My new ranged character Calledshot has a 30 dex and no problems hitting on elite vod, but has not done elite shroud. Both Cavity and Calledshot are ranged fighters which means on favored enemies they have a lower to-hit then a pure ranger although on non favored enemies they have a higher to-hit. My recommendation is go strength based with dex being your second highest stat.

[SqtYork]

I have a true archer build. I don't have weapon finesse and the only melee weapon I have on that toon is a muckbane. I'm just choose to range things almost exclusively. To limit people from having to chase me around or the mobs that I aggro, I use a para bow, run in smaller circles, or go for quick kills on ranged soft targets. I am not a DPS build. A ranged build is more of a scout, evasion save mob kiter, caster killer, or with manyshot at 15+ ranger I can outdamage most DPS builds for about 20 secs. I have a returning throwing hammer but I don't really use it because even with DR the increased rate of fire for my bow makes it less effective except for ranging to oozes. Having said that, you point out some vaild tactics and techniques.

What I meant was I tend to miss more often because when I am running backwards I tend to turn too fast so that I am no longer 'facing' the targetted mob, or I am jumping over their heads to run back the other direction. The -4 to hit while I am moving isn't really the problem. When I am shoot at most red names I am standing still so I get the maximum rate of fire with the consecutive attack bonus.

[maddmatt70]

I have a true archer build. I don't have weapon finesse and the only melee weapon I have on that toon is a muckbane. I'm just choose to range things almost exclusively. To limit people from having to chase me around or the mobs that I aggro, I use a para bow, run in smaller circles, or go for quick kills on ranged soft targets. I am not a DPS build. A ranged build is more of a scout, evasion save mob kiter, caster killer, or with manyshot at 15+ ranger I can outdamage most DPS builds for about 20 secs. I have a returning throwing hammer but I don't really use it because even with DR the increased rate of fire for my bow makes it less effective except for ranging to oozes. Having said that, you point out some vaild tactics and techniques.

What I meant was I tend to miss more often because when I am running backwards I tend to turn too fast so that I am no longer 'facing' the targetted mob, or I am jumping over their heads to run back the other direction. The -4 to hit while I am moving isn't really the problem. When I am shoot at most red names I am standing still so I get the maximum rate of fire with the consecutive attack bonus.

I am sorry to say this, but you should have built your character with a higher str. The OP is making a ranged character correctly. Having a really high dex has no benefit to a bow shooter none. The important thing for ranged characters to concentrate on is being an asset on raids. Being an asset while short manning a quest is fairly easy for any character build, but on raids where dps is king ranged lags behind. Ranged characters need to focus on upgrading that quality.

The techniques you proscribe are really only done on 6 person quests and often really when you are short manning them. It usually is better to just keep shooting while waiting for the melee in your party to get to you and kill the mob i.e. take your punishment. Your concept for how a ranged character should be played is something from pnp (your quote"A ranged build is more of a scout, evasion save mob kiter, caster killer,") which although DDO is based on pnp is not the way DDO is optimally played.

[QuantumFX]

boldface mine.

do you make this distinction because i do not mention SotR? Or do you say so because ranged fire is supposed to give bonuses for standing still according to this old dev post. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1464624&postcount=640)

It's mainly a SotR issue while shortmanning the Demon Queen Raid on elite. I'll start seeing more miss messages than I'd like and it's easily solved by a single hit from a destruction weapon (-4 AC). It's a very specific set of circumstances.

Also, I should note that the ranger in question is a tempest ranger. The only ranged feat he has is Improved Crit Ranged. He uses a silver longbow rather than a Shroud bow and I think I may have passed on the elven to hit enhancements. With the build you posted you will have a much higher to hit.

The damage bonus is totally worth it. My last high crit with a silver LB and no bloodstone was 144 +8(Holy). The only other ranger that I have that can even attempt to keep up with this guy on crit damage with a bow has a bloodstone.