should you stay or move onto the next quest?

[Voalkrynn2]

So I am wondering what is the general opinion when you zerg a quest like Coal Chamber as inprogress and accept late arrivals to the party.

Are you responsible in some way to ensure these late arrivals can make it to the chest and get their stone and ingredients or is it acceptable to drop party, move on to another quest, and leave them?

I am referring to the case where the person(s) are competent.
I do not mean 2 man the shroud competent.
I do not mean a sorc dual wielding bastard swords in full plate incompetent
I do mean somewhere in-between like gets a little lost but figures it out on his/her own, is self sufficient, and is slightly familiar with the quest.

I joined such a party on my bard, they had not yet found the cube, and [as expected of me] moved forward through the quest on my own instead of asking for a nursemaid. I was killed by a swarm of trog casters while making the final climb (probably just shy of area where the chest is with my bad luck). Looking back I could have avoided the death by conducting a tactical withdrawl and healed/buffed/charmed a mob or two as opposed to trying to heal myself through the assault and climb at the same time (that is a lesson learned but irrelevant to the question posed).

The party members had recalled after looting the chest and stated they were unable to return as they had limited time left to play and wanted to run another quest.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Well that's not a group I'd rejoin...but when you see "in progress" you have to figure you are 100% on your own until you catch up.

But don't worry, I expect with mod9 these groups will largely vanish anyway.

[FluffyCalico]

Well that's not a group I'd rejoin...but when you see "in progress" you have to figure you are 100% on your own until you catch up.

But don't worry, I expect with mod9 these groups will largely vanish anyway.

With mod 9 I expect everyone to be running them for xp since there is only 5 new ones and 4 levels lol

[CSFurious]

if you were competent and had a good attitude, most teamplayers would have helped you get your stone since that was the point of your joining

i would not group with those players again as a first choice

[Voalkrynn2]

if you were competent and had a good attitude, most teamplayers would have helped you get your stone since that was the point of your joining

i would not group with those players again as a first choice

I think from their perspective it was either too much trouble to wait 5 to 10 minutes for me to catch up or they figured I was doing well enough that they did not need to wait. The prompt to get me to pose the question was that they didn't ask me if they should wait and that they couldn't come back while waiting for their lfm for the next quest to fill.

[Emili]

So I am wondering what is the general opinion when you zerg a quest like Coal Chamber as inprogress and accept late arrivals to the party.

Are you responsible in some way to ensure these late arrivals can make it to the chest and get their stone and ingredients or is it acceptable to drop party, move on to another quest, and leave them?

I am referring to the case where the person(s) are competent.
I do not mean 2 man the shroud competent.
I do not mean a sorc dual wielding bastard swords in full plate incompetent
I do mean somewhere in-between like gets a little lost but figures it out on his/her own, is self sufficient, and is slightly familiar with the quest.

I joined such a party on my bard, they had not yet found the cube, and [as expected of me] moved forward through the quest on my own instead of asking for a nursemaid. I was killed by a swarm of trog casters while making the final climb (probably just shy of area where the chest is with my bad luck). Looking back I could have avoided the death by conducting a tactical withdrawl and healed/buffed/charmed a mob or two as opposed to trying to heal myself through the assault and climb at the same time (that is a lesson learned but irrelevant to the question posed).

The party members had recalled after looting the chest and stated they were unable to return as they had limited time left to play and wanted to run another quest.


So, the excuse was that they had not time to waste, yet they bloody imposed a waste your time?

I mean if they wished to solo thru it, then solo thru it, If they wish to short man it then short man it, and if they wish to offer someone else the ends then actually offer and help obtain the end. The answer is quite simple, YES you are responsible for ensuring all group members obtain the satisfaction of complete - beit quest complete and especially in raid of flagging quests - the end chests... should that be what that party member is seeking.

My point of view is this ... should you be in progress and you do not have the time to put forth an effort to bring a party member up to speed ... then why keep the LFM up if you're not going to take on any resposibility towards them and their goal... well then you're really not helping them out are you?

Your post strikes light on something I'm not too happy about myself with, and I will admit most times I am a zerger at heart, I claim to move at party speeds ... which is somewhat true, (I tend to run with whoever's out front and double back to peek in on those in the back). Typically when I reach the end I get lazy... I always wait for those behind to catch up and get the ends to their satisfaction. Yet, impose upon people standing with me at the end to ensure those behind catch up. I will go back and help should I see people having troubles but is not my first inclination before troubles start, which it should be and at one time used to be. I used to be a much better friend, Thank you.

[Thrudh]

My point of view is this ... should you be in progress and you do not have the time to put forth an effort to bring a party member up to speed ... then why keep the LFM up if you're not going to take on any resposibility towards them and their goal... well then you're really not helping them out are you?



Well, I usually stay and help any late-comers, but I can certainly see the other side of it... It IS a free chest and ingrediants on a quest that can take a while to do...

If I can complete a quest with 4 people, I'll leave the LFM up. change it to "In progress" and go... "In progress" means you have to know the quest and catch up... I'm offering a free completion/chest to you if you're capable of getting through the quest on your own...

If you're not, or the quest is new to you... Don't join...

[TEK]

So I am wondering what is the general opinion when you zerg a quest like Coal Chamber as inprogress and accept late arrivals to the party.

Are you responsible in some way to ensure these late arrivals can make it to the chest and get their stone and ingredients or is it acceptable to drop party, move on to another quest, and leave them?

I am referring to the case where the person(s) are competent.
I do not mean 2 man the shroud competent.
I do not mean a sorc dual wielding bastard swords in full plate incompetent
I do mean somewhere in-between like gets a little lost but figures it out on his/her own, is self sufficient, and is slightly familiar with the quest.

I joined such a party on my bard, they had not yet found the cube, and [as expected of me] moved forward through the quest on my own instead of asking for a nursemaid. I was killed by a swarm of trog casters while making the final climb (probably just shy of area where the chest is with my bad luck). Looking back I could have avoided the death by conducting a tactical withdrawl and healed/buffed/charmed a mob or two as opposed to trying to heal myself through the assault and climb at the same time (that is a lesson learned but irrelevant to the question posed).

The party members had recalled after looting the chest and stated they were unable to return as they had limited time left to play and wanted to run another quest.



No you are not responsible. The LFM said "in progress" that was your warning that people were already in the quest NOT waiting for you. At that point it's just a matter of whether or not you can get to the quest before completion and get to the chests without death.

either way it's not that big of a deal since you get the chance to put in any effort into the leg work of the quest to say your time was really wasted.

[Kreaper]

In my opinion, they left the lfm up to be nice. If they had wanted to wait around to help everyone through the quest, they would have waited to start. Especially in a quest where all the mobs re-spawn. When you join an "in progress" group, you are, in essence, saying that you know you are on your own until you catch up and that you are confident you can make it. They are being nice in giving someone a shot a free XP and chests, why should they spend their limited time working backwards? Especially in THAT quest.

[Demoyn]

I agree with the last few posts. If I leave up an "in progress" LFM, it means that I don't need your help to finish the quest, but I'm trying to be nice and give everyone a chance at freeloading (in fact, I often mention "feel free to freeload" in my LFMs when in progress). They shouldn't feel obliged to go back and help when offering a free service that they didn't need to offer (though if I'm feeling exceptionally nice I'll often help out).

[Zenako]

A not so subtle point however, is that you are far far less likely to see those sorts of LFM's in the future as the mod 9 changes currently stand. No longer is it a "free ride". Someone doing that will also have to be willing to have the mobs have more Hit Points that they would without those extra players joining the quest.

However, as to joining an in progress quest, the assumption is that you are on your own until you catch up. Coal is one of the few quests with significant respawns to make it a challenge for a late comer. Most quests are just empty hallways, and no problems to work along. The problem with the vale quests however (unlike the DQ ones) is that to get the item for quest completion you need to reach the end and take it out of the chest.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

With mod 9 I expect everyone to be running them for xp since there is only 5 new ones and 4 levels lol

lol I meant no more "in progress". a) because ppl will want XP so won't enter late, b) because the new system means you are better off shortmanning anyway

[Lithic]

If you died when i was already in meridia, I would have left you. Sucks to be you, you shouldnt have gotten killed. I wouldn't even have felt guilty about leaving you as you did nothing to help out the group. LFM in progress means "if you can't get out here and catch up, don't bother". I'll usually even say exactly that to any late joiners.

Had I still been in the quest, i may have put in the effort to go rez you, assuming I had a rez clickie left. Usually though I solo that quest, and only let my friends or guildmates in for free chests (they will already know I'm not waiting around heh). Any character with a healbot hireling can do it pretty easily, regardless of their class.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Putting all ethics, morality and rules of fairplay aside...............

Don't ever join a quest that says "in-progress" or "know your way" unless you think you can catchup without help.

And you can look at the LFM to see where the current members of the party are before you join.....if they are in Meridia or the Vail, Join....if they are in the CC....don't join IMO.

You can't change another person. Whenever I forget that I remind myself of my ex-wife.

[Emili]

I agree with the last few posts. If I leave up an "in progress" LFM, it means that I don't need your help to finish the quest, but I'm trying to be nice and give everyone a chance at freeloading (in fact, I often mention "feel free to freeload" in my LFMs when in progress). They shouldn't feel obliged to go back and help when offering a free service that they didn't need to offer (though if I'm feeling exceptionally nice I'll often help out).

When I solo coal, I solo coal... If I feel I'll let others get the chest I stand at that end chest for people to get there, should they have some trouble well then I'm going to help, Offering just anyone a free chest is fine but they're not really free chests when they take thier 5-10 minutes and never get it... So then, should I not have the time to wait for people then I do not put up the LFM. Is just the way I am.

[Demoyn]

When I solo coal, I solo coal... If I feel I'll let others get the chest I stand at that end chest for people to get there, should they have some trouble well then I'm going to help, Offering just anyone a free chest is fine but they're not really free chests when they take thier 5-10 minutes and never get it... So then, should I not have the time to wait for people then I do not put up the LFM. Is just the way I am.

That's a perfectly acceptable way to handle things, I just don't think it's appropriate to expect something like that.

[Strakeln]

The group sounded like they were up front with you and polite. I'd say you have no room for complaint.

[captain1z]

I feel if the majority of the group has already completed most of the objectives and you are coming into the quest late, its your job to catch up. Most of its done you really should have very little trouble as stuff is aggroed on the group ahead of you. I would leave if I felt you could make it on your own but if your gunna start aggroing stuff and falling endlessly or get lost IDK......... some days Im ok with hand-holding and some days Im not.

weekdays I only have 2 hrs to play, weekends I have all the time I wanna spend (assuming I dont have a date or something)

[Yuhjn]

I agree with the sentiment that "in progress" means you need to consider whether or not you can catch up.

I've actually been in your party's situation a couple times. Once I was feeling very helpful and after completing I recalled out, re-entered, worked forward to the lost player, and escorted him to the final chest. The two of us where the only ones left in the party, everyone else left after the completion. But I did this because I was feeling nice and didnt really have anything better to do at the time. It took an extra 30 minutes to get the lost guy through the dungeon. But I certainly didnt feel obligated to help him, he joined "in progress" and I was just feeling nice at the time. I should mention I had the star, which is probably part of the reason I helped him. That and pity.

However, you had more options than to give up, even after you were dead and left alone in the dungeon.

For example, you could have asked around to find a guildie or friend to help. They could have come to the quest, held it open while you recalled out to Meridia, healed up, and came back in. Perhaps they would have even helped you get to the final chest. If not, you could bring a hireling to help. A hireling can get you back up after you die easily, especially once you are skilled with controlling them.



My advice is to seriously consider the situation you're going into when you join an "in progress" LFM. If it's a quest like Coal be ready to do whatever you must do to get your completion, and dont expect anything from anyone.

[Voalkrynn2]

I feel if the majority of the group has already completed most of the objectives and you are coming into the quest late, its your job to catch up. Most of its done you really should have very little trouble as stuff is aggroed on the group ahead of you. I would leave if I felt you could make it on your own but if your gunna start aggroing stuff and falling endlessly or get lost IDK......... some days Im ok with hand-holding and some days Im not.

weekdays I only have 2 hrs to play, weekends I have all the time I wanna spend (assuming I dont have a date or something)

I think you missed some of the points in my original post.
Here is a summary:
I was catching up.
I did get all the aggro as the second they recalled I was the only target in the quest.
I only fell one time and only one ledge not to the bottom.
I didn't ask for hand holding.

Update: The player that pulled this on me got a taste of his own medicine from another player and suffice it to say he was totally ****ed off. The funny thing is when the shoe was on the other foot he took it very personal as opposed to the "/shrug whatever sucks to be you" response he gave me after leaving me high and dry. He was told we're starting the Shroud run like 5 times and the portal is open let's go but he kept switching toons till it was too late.

Karma is a biotch is it not?:-)

[TEK]

I think you missed some of the points in my original post.
Here is a summary:
I was catching up.
I did get all the aggro as the second they recalled I was the only target in the quest.
I only fell one time and only one ledge not to the bottom.
I didn't ask for hand holding.

Update: The player that pulled this on me got a taste of his own medicine from another player and suffice it to say he was totally ****ed off. The funny thing is when the shoe was on the other foot he took it very personal as opposed to the "/shrug whatever sucks to be you" response he gave me after leaving me high and dry. He was told we're starting the Shroud run like 5 times and the portal is open let's go but he kept switching toons till it was too late.

Karma is a biotch is it not?:-)

not really. it sounds like he was already in the group BEFORE it started and he simply wasn't paying attention to the warnings that the group gave, as opposed to you joining AFTER and not paying attention to your life bar better than you needed to at the time;)

[Voalkrynn2]

not really. it sounds like he was already in the group BEFORE it started and he simply wasn't paying attention to the warnings that the group gave, as opposed to you joining AFTER and not paying attention to your life bar better than you needed to at the time;)

No he specifally stated to the ldr that he was getting screwed over as we didn't wait for him to start. He kept playing magical musical toon switching to find an item to send to someone or to find someone not on timer. In the end he did get a taste of his own medicine as he missed out on the raid when the group left him behind.

[TEK]

No he specifally stated to the ldr that he was getting screwed over as we didn't wait for him to start. He kept playing magical musical toon switching to find an item to send to someone or to find someone not on timer. In the end he did get a taste of his own medicine as he missed out on the raid when the group left him behind.

was he in the group before the quest started?

were you in the group before the quest started?

If the answer to these is yes then you're wrong it's not the same thing.

[Demoyn]

Karma is a biotch is it not?:-)

When I coupled this post to the one you made about avoiding a "certain drama filled server", it gave me a really good laugh. Thank you.

[Noctus]

In my opinion, they left the lfm up to be nice. If they had wanted to wait around to help everyone through the quest, they would have waited to start. Especially in a quest where all the mobs re-spawn. When you join an "in progress" group, you are, in essence, saying that you know you are on your own until you catch up and that you are confident you can make it. They are being nice in giving someone a shot a free XP and chests, why should they spend their limited time working backwards? Especially in THAT quest.


Thats how i see it, too.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

In my opinion, they left the lfm up to be nice. If they had wanted to wait around to help everyone through the quest, they would have waited to start. Especially in a quest where all the mobs re-spawn. When you join an "in progress" group, you are, in essence, saying that you know you are on your own until you catch up and that you are confident you can make it. They are being nice in giving someone a shot a free XP and chests, why should they spend their limited time working backwards? Especially in THAT quest.

I'd have to go with this viewpoint....

[Voalkrynn2]

was he in the group before the quest started?

were you in the group before the quest started?

If the answer to these is yes then you're wrong it's not the same thing.

Pound on the table all you want he got jacked in a manner similar to what he dished out end of story.

[Voalkrynn2]

When I coupled this post to the one you made about avoiding a "certain drama filled server", it gave me a really good laugh. Thank you.

I don't think this approaches the level of drama found on a certain server but if you insist then I guess I am the only hypocrite amongst the 6 billion plus people on the planet.:D

[TEK]

Pound on the table all you want he got jacked in a manner similar to what he dished out end of story.

LOL you think im upset over this?!!! HAHAHA

you're the one who's bitter

and again im suspecting that you're wrong it's not a similar matter otherwise you would have been happy to answer the question i asked you rather than transparently try to dodge it.

[transtemporal]

Are you responsible in some way to ensure these late arrivals can make it to the chest and get their stone and ingredients or is it acceptable to drop party, move on to another quest, and leave them?

There's an understanding that the party is accepting responsibility by letting you join the group while its in progress, to complete and get you your chest but only as long as you're contributing to the success of the quest. If the second condition is not met, the first might not be either...

For this reason, I don't leave an "in progress" lfm up for coal. Its too long for a late starter to contribute meaningfully and its really too painful and too time-consuming if someone gets lost or killed. Its easier for the person to res and run back out.

[Demoyn]

I don't think this approaches the level of drama found on a certain server...

Yes it does. The Khyber drama is way over exaggerated


but if you insist then I guess I am the only hypocrite amongst the 6 billion plus people on the planet.:D

Now I came nowhere near saying this. There's millions (if not 5.9 billion plus) hypocrites on the planet.

[Voalkrynn2]

LOL you think im upset over this?!!! HAHAHA

you're the one who's bitter

and again im suspecting that you're wrong it's not a similar matter otherwise you would have been happy to answer the question i asked you rather than transparently try to dodge it.

Your questions are irrelevant relative to his comments and his perception of the party leader not waiting for him and thus he was, from his viewpoint, wronged.

In any case the main point seems to be to stay away from an in progress run of the Coal Chamber unless ppl first indicate a willingness to hang out long enough for the late arrivals to get their chest. I, having a different standard of ethics, would certainly stay and help regardless of their ability or inability to get through alone; for me in progress doesn't mean you are on your own. This isn't some Darwinistic survival of the fittest real life situation nor is the Shroud some snooty elitist golf club.

[Purgatory]

So I am wondering what is the general opinion when you zerg a quest like Coal Chamber as inprogress and accept late arrivals to the party.

Are you responsible in some way to ensure these late arrivals can make it to the chest and get their stone and ingredients or is it acceptable to drop party, move on to another quest, and leave them?

I am referring to the case where the person(s) are competent.
I do not mean 2 man the shroud competent.
I do not mean a sorc dual wielding bastard swords in full plate incompetent
I do mean somewhere in-between like gets a little lost but figures it out on his/her own, is self sufficient, and is slightly familiar with the quest.

I joined such a party on my bard, they had not yet found the cube, and [as expected of me] moved forward through the quest on my own instead of asking for a nursemaid. I was killed by a swarm of trog casters while making the final climb (probably just shy of area where the chest is with my bad luck). Looking back I could have avoided the death by conducting a tactical withdrawl and healed/buffed/charmed a mob or two as opposed to trying to heal myself through the assault and climb at the same time (that is a lesson learned but irrelevant to the question posed).

The party members had recalled after looting the chest and stated they were unable to return as they had limited time left to play and wanted to run another quest.

Can I have the names of your toon and alts I think it would be in my best intrest after reading your post that I would not like you in any of my groups thank you for the warning in advance!

[captain1z]

I think you missed some of the points in my original post.
Here is a summary:
I was catching up.
I did get all the aggro as the second they recalled I was the only target in the quest.
I only fell one time and only one ledge not to the bottom.
I didn't ask for hand holding.

Update: The player that pulled this on me got a taste of his own medicine from another player and suffice it to say he was totally ****ed off. The funny thing is when the shoe was on the other foot he took it very personal as opposed to the "/shrug whatever sucks to be you" response he gave me after leaving me high and dry. He was told we're starting the Shroud run like 5 times and the portal is open let's go but he kept switching toons till it was too late.

Karma is a biotch is it not?:-)

I was generalizing my feelings on the matter and not specifically tageting any action anyone took. People do what they feel like doing, thats how I look at it, so not much really bothers me about anything. I just do what I can and keep on going. Know what I mean?

[TEK]

Your questions are irrelevant relative to his comments and his perception of the party leader not waiting for him and thus he was, from his viewpoint, wronged.

In any case the main point seems to be to stay away from an in progress run of the Coal Chamber unless ppl first indicate a willingness to hang out long enough for the late arrivals to get their chest. I, having a different standard of ethics, would certainly stay and help regardless of their ability or inability to get through alone; for me in progress doesn't mean you are on your own. This isn't some Darwinistic survival of the fittest real life situation nor is the Shroud some snooty elitist golf club.

My irrelevance is simply your opinion. Fact is you're still avoiding the answer to the question.


You can have what ever set of ethics you want you didnt come on the forums to complain about yourself now did you? so your ethics are irrelevant to the topic because we're talking about other people, mostly in general.

it might not be a darwinistic situation, but this game is played by some people with darwinistic qualities/tendencies/beliefs. You can claim "this is just a game" all you want but it's still played by REAL people and these are REAL issues surrounding a fake game created by REAL people.

Now in your original post YOU asked the question and you got your opinionated answers from many people here that varied from person to person. take it, accept it, cry about it IF NEED BE, then move on knowing that REAL people will eventually hurt your **** feelings regardless of the situation.

[Voalkrynn2]

My irrelevance is simply your opinion. Fact is you're still avoiding the answer to the question.


You can have what ever set of ethics you want you didnt come on the forums to complain about yourself now did you? so your ethics are irrelevant to the topic because we're talking about other people, mostly in general.

it might not be a darwinistic situation, but this game is played by some people with darwinistic qualities/tendencies/beliefs. You can claim "this is just a game" all you want but it's still played by REAL people and these are REAL issues surrounding a fake game created by REAL people.

Now in your original post YOU asked the question and you got your opinionated answers from many people here that varied from person to person. take it, accept it, cry about it IF NEED BE, then move on knowing that REAL people will eventually hurt your **** feelings regardless of the situation.


Lol pass the tissue box your curled up into the fetal position with.....not. I gave an answer you didn't like it. The answer remains your question is irrelevant.

[TEK]

Lol pass the tissue box your curled up into the fetal position with.....not. I gave an answer you didn't like it. The answer remains your question is irrelevant.

hmm now you're ignoring the question and the point of what i said in the last post. TSK TSK TSK.

[Furbitor]

So, the excuse was that they had not time to waste, yet they bloody imposed a waste your time?

I mean if they wished to solo thru it, then solo thru it, If they wish to short man it then short man it, and if they wish to offer someone else the ends then actually offer and help obtain the end. The answer is quite simple, YES you are responsible for ensuring all group members obtain the satisfaction of complete - beit quest complete and especially in raid of flagging quests - the end chests... should that be what that party member is seeking.

My point of view is this ... should you be in progress and you do not have the time to put forth an effort to bring a party member up to speed ... then why keep the LFM up if you're not going to take on any resposibility towards them and their goal... well then you're really not helping them out are you?

Your post strikes light on something I'm not too happy about myself with, and I will admit most times I am a zerger at heart, I claim to move at party speeds ... which is somewhat true, (I tend to run with whoever's out front and double back to peek in on those in the back). Typically when I reach the end I get lazy... I always wait for those behind to catch up and get the ends to their satisfaction. Yet, impose upon people standing with me at the end to ensure those behind catch up. I will go back and help should I see people having troubles but is not my first inclination before troubles start, which it should be and at one time used to be. I used to be a much better friend, Thank you.


Well Said. If I run a party, and start shortmanned. I either start shortmanned or put up a LFM "underway" IF... I didnt want to have another player join its the party leader who should take it down.

And for all the rest of you guys posting its perfect acceptable to abandon a late joining party member, SHAME ON YOU! Remember this is a virtual repreentation of a table-top game! How would you feel like join to a friends house for a game of poker, but find while you sit at the table you are delt no cards?

You would get up and leave. treat all party members with the respect as real people. And party together!

People who abandon their parties (in whole or part) is a good reason why so many gamers form guilds and stopp pugging. Just to stop the inconsiderates and the ignorant.

Furb

[Demoyn]

How would you feel like join to a friends house for a game of poker, but find while you sit at the table you are delt no cards?


They provided you with everything you needed to take home free money, but you didn't ante up. Who's fault is that?

[TEK]

How would you feel like join to a friends house for a game of poker, but find while you sit at the table you are delt no cards?


This is not the same scenario. If it was then your "friend" as you put it would have already made it clear(LFM) that the deck is across the table and its your responsibility to deal yourself some cards quickly and jump in the game seeing as how it has already started since you were late getting to the game.

abandoning party members has nothing to do with this scenario. It's about the fact that they WERE NOT going to wait for you and they expressed that up fron in the LFM staing "In progress"

Is it cool for them to help out if u have trouble making it? YES, should it be expected(this is the OP question) NO.

[branmakmuffin]

The group sounded like they were up front with you and polite. I'd say you have no room for complaint.
I don't think he was complaining.

[Voalkrynn2]

I don't think he was complaining.

You are correct I was asking for opinions.