comments on new rogue

[glasswalkerny]

Ok i'm a newly returned player (been gone since before monks came about) and am looking at playing a rogue due to getting bored from time to time with my Fighter... I have no tomes, don't have drow or 1750.. so i wanted to know how feasable the following build Sigtrent posted on the forums still is (he hadn't updated this since monks came out either). It's supposed to be a stealth/ninja type themed character so i know the Shuriken feat is a bit odd... it was suggested by the original maker that perhaps this could benefit from splashing monk for the ninja type weaponry feats?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Indigo Shadowstrike
Level 16 Chaotic Neutral Halfling Female
(16 Rogue)
Hit Points: 132
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 7 24
Bluff 5 26
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 5 20
Disable Device 7 23
Haggle 1 1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 7 34
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 3 20
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 7 34
Open Lock 7 17
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 23
Spot 3 18
Swim 0 0
Tumble 4 14
Use Magic Device 5 19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Way of the Assassin II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll

[branmakmuffin]

Will save seems awfully low.

[glasswalkerny]

well that is without any gear (as i'm not familiar enough with what i can acquire while questing) and no tomes (that i may get later in his existence).. that said how would you recommend fixing the will save problem? I like the stealthy trap/lock monkey aspect so i'd like to keep that part intact..

[branmakmuffin]

well that is without any gear (as i'm not familiar enough with what i can acquire while questing) and no tomes (that i may get later in his existence).. that said how would you recommend fixing the will save problem? I like the stealthy trap/lock monkey aspect so i'd like to keep that part intact..
I can't comment on high level play (highest is 10). That said, I like to take Iron Will for the low Will save classes.

My current main (the level 10) is a ftr4/rgr4/rog2, and he has Iron Will and is maxed on Disable (and Search and Spot), so he is probably a "trap monkey." He is far from max on Open Locks, but there's no such thing as a critical failure on lock picking.

[Accelerando]

Glancing at this quickly I really think the int is too high. This is pretty unnecessary even for an assassin. At lvl 20 with a 13 base int, a +1 tome, and a +6 item your DC will be 35 which is not too terrible. Add in more grind intensive items like a +3 tome, +2 exceptional bonus on a crafted weapon, and you are now at a 37.

I really think you could use those build points elsewhere.

Wisdom would be an example if you wanted to take a monk splash. This will add your ninja shiruken specialist feat, as well as some AC and an extra feat.

Strength could also use a little bit of a bump if you choose not to go the monk route.

[branmakmuffin]

Wisdom would be an example if you wanted to take a monk splash.
Also helping in the Will save department.

[Accelerando]

Also helping in the Will save department.

/agree :D

[Eelpout]

Also helping in the Will save department.


/agree :D

What the Hell just happened here?



Back on topic. You could definately consider dropping Intel a point or two and put that into Wis. Also if you didn't feel like going with Monk, you could add in 2 levels of Ranger to get Two-weapon fighting free of charge and a faster range attack if you wanted to mess around with the Shuriken still. Plus you would get a Favored Enemy and you can always swap that into different Favored Enemies as you get toward level cap.

[branmakmuffin]

What the Hell just happened here?
http://humor.beecy.net/misc/hellfrozeover/hell-froze-over.jpg


You could definately consider dropping Intel a point or two and put that into Wis. Also if you didn't feel like going with Monk, you could add in 2 levels of Ranger to get Two-weapon fighting free of charge and a faster range attack if you wanted to mess around with the Shuriken still. Plus you would get a Favored Enemy and you can always swap that into different Favored Enemies as you get toward level cap.
Of course capstone might be a goal.

[Accelerando]

http://humor.beecy.net/misc/hellfrozeover/hell-froze-over.jpg

HAHAHAHA! Nice. Hey it isn't my fault you said something reasonable.

[branmakmuffin]

HAHAHAHA! Nice. Hey it isn't my fault you said something reasonable.
I'm betting it's this guy's fault:

http://www.monstropedia.org/images/0/09/Orlock.jpg

[Accelerando]

I'm betting it's this guy's fault:

http://www.monstropedia.org/images/0/09/Orlock.jpg

hm... Bauhaus added to my playlist for today. Thanks!

[glasswalkerny]

so since i haven't made this character yet what would any of you suggest for a 28pt trap/stealth build? i could do without the ninja theme.. is it possible to do an assassin build with 28 points that can still handle trapsmithing and open locks in a decent capacity?

[Noctus]

is it possible to do an assassin build with 28 points that can still handle trapsmithing and open locks in a decent capacity?

There is no trade-off between those.

Start with a 14 INT pre-racial modifiers and you will be intelligent enough for assasinate and have enough skillpoints for all rogue skills and hide+move silently.



Attributes:
-2 INT to get +2 DEX.

Feats:
Cant comment on the feats as i dont rummage through all the per-level skillpoint clutter any more. I´m tired of this character displaying.
Except: Take Weapon Finess asap.

[CSFurious]

drow equals new-player's 32-point build

no 32 always go drow


so since i haven't made this character yet what would any of you suggest for a 28pt trap/stealth build? i could do without the ninja theme.. is it possible to do an assassin build with 28 points that can still handle trapsmithing and open locks in a decent capacity?

[glasswalkerny]

well i'd love to make a drow but i'm still ~300 favor shy of that.. my only other character (outside of a newbie sorceress that can't solo the first newbie quest) is level 3 (see sig)

[Accelerando]

well i'd love to make a drow but i'm still ~300 favor shy of that.. my only other character (outside of a newbie sorceress that can't solo the first newbie quest) is level 3 (see sig)

I still have a 28 pt halfling rogue that I rolled up during head start. He does fine, although he might not be "the best there is", I still enjoy playing with him and with Assassin III coming up next mod will definitely be spending alot more time with this character. So the short answer is no, you will not have any problems with your 28 pt rogue.

As for your sorcerer you are best off deleting it, rerolling it, and then telling the guy that you want to skip the tutorial. That will put you in sunny Korothos where you can find groups more readily.

[glasswalkerny]

oh no i meant my sorcerer can't do the tomb.. i did skip the tutorial.. guess Casters really can't solo

[captain1z]

oh no i meant my sorcerer can't do the tomb.. i did skip the tutorial.. guess Casters really can't solo

400 favor is easiliy acquired and you can do it in maybe 3-5 hrs.
Heres what u do.........

grab your sorc & Go back to Korthos Island and advertise

"Elite Korthos favor runs, skipped tutorial, WF friendly, need 1 elite opener" levels 3-6

Make sure you have the ability to repair WF or at least lots of wands as an alternative.

I can almost gaurentee you will get 2-3 wf barbs to tear that place up on elite and you just need to play healbot for a while. Get most of Korthos on elite, hit up WW on elite and touch STK on hard maybe and u should have your drow.

As far as your current build I think your str is low for being a halfling, it will cause encumbrance issues at some pt and you will lose all your dex to AC plus your ability to evade just from looting 1-2 heavy armors, or weapons.

Also you dont need to max out Hide, move, or picklocks.......... drop them each by 1-2 pts and beef up your haggle and spot (low spot can be very embarassing...dont be "that guy")

If u get drow and want a ninja theme the shuriken feat is free and u can splash 1 level of monk for funky kung fu fighting but beware drow/elf monks are very squishy, watch your con.

[Eelpout]

I still have a 28 pt halfling rogue that I rolled up during head start. He does fine, although he might not be "the best there is", I still enjoy playing with him and with Assassin III coming up next mod will definitely be spending alot more time with this character. So the short answer is no, you will not have any problems with your 28 pt rogue.

As for your sorcerer you are best off deleting it, rerolling it, and then telling the guy that you want to skip the tutorial. That will put you in sunny Korothos where you can find groups more readily.

Same here. I was just messing around in the Vale today with my 28pt Halfling Rogue. Assassinating like a cackling fool, and he can handle most traps in the game.

The main thing O.P. is you may have to invest in some Spot/Search/Disable gear, but you will still be able to remain fairly viable. You just won't be the best TWF/Trapmonkey/Assassin/DPS machine.

[tc12]

I'm not anti-halfling but I'm with those that suggest taking a few days and getting your 400 favor to unlock Drow. The stat bonuses they get (DEX, INT, CHA) are really ideal for a rogue.

[Accelerando]

I'm not anti-halfling but I'm with those that suggest taking a few days and getting your 400 favor to unlock Drow. The stat bonuses they get (DEX, INT, CHA) are really ideal for a rogue.

Meh. Halfling Cunning/Guile/Saves/Bonus To Hit and AC > Drow Rapier Damage/+1UMD/+1 Trapsmithing (*yawn)

[SableShadow]

Meh. Halfling Cunning/Guile/Saves/Bonus To Hit and AC > Drow Rapier Damage/+1UMD/+1 Trapsmithing (*yawn)

But elves are more teh hawt!!!! :D

[Eelpout]

Meh. Halfling Cunning/Guile/Saves/Bonus To Hit and AC > Drow Rapier Damage/+1UMD/+1 Trapsmithing (*yawn)

Gotta agree here. Halflings have a nice set of Enhancements that really help with hitting and damage. 32pt Halfling would be even better and you only have 1650 favor to go!!:D

Not to mention if your feeling crazy (yes I know this is not ideal) you can get the Dragonmarks and be somewhat self-sufficient without having to dump as much Plat into cure wands/pots.

[QuantumFX]

OP: I think you should lower your starting INT to 14 and use the build points to increase your STR to 12 and your CON to 14.

With a starting 14 INT you will be able to keep the really important skills maxed and have enough to keep off skills high.

The feat progression you posted isn’t that great. This would be a lot more beneficial for you.

Level 1: Toughness
Level 3: Weapon Finesse
Level 6: Two Weapon Fighting
Level 9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Rogue 10: Crippling Strike
Level 12: Improved Crit: Piercing
Rogue 13: Improved Evasion
Level 15: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Rogue 16: Slippery Mind
Level 18: Force of Personality
Rogue 19: Skill Mastery

I anticipate your first question will be “Why are you leaving Two Weapon Fighting until level 9?” Simply put you need to be able to hit your target before you can damage them. A -2 to hit is really painful at low levels. Add in the fact that you won't be able to even generate a decent to hit until level 3 and it gets really ugly. Also Two Weapon Fighting is only useful when you get the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat. Until then, you would be better off looking for, and equipping, a Mithril Light or Heavy shield. (You'll usually get access to one as an end reward for the Waterworks)

The “Force of Personality” feat is a much better choice than the “Iron Will” feat for your proposed Stat distribution. Initially it’s the same benefit but later on you’ll be able to forgo wearing a +WIS item and just wear a +CHA item. It also synergizes nicely with Slippery Mind.

Since you’re interested in being the sneaky assassin type you should take the assassin PrE. Sableshadow has a thread that’s dedicated to good rogue tactics. I highly suggest you read it. Other than that the only other advice I can offer is to learn how to setup and use your hotkeys.

[glasswalkerny]

ok and what would my options for going acrobat instead of assassin? can i do that and still do the trap finding/disabling thing or would i have to sacrifice too much... acrobat works best with a staff right? and that's STR based (i.e. i couldn't finesse it)?

[DaggomaticDwarf]

if you are still thinking of splashing a Monk, remember Monk are Lawful I believe. And I still use my 28 point Rogue assassin with Dis and open search spot blah blah blah

[QuantumFX]

ok and what would my options for going acrobat instead of assassin? can i do that and still do the trap finding/disabling thing or would i have to sacrifice too much... acrobat works best with a staff right? and that's STR based (i.e. i couldn't finesse it)?

Glass I cannot recommend anything more important for you to do at this moment than CLICKING HERE (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=124401) and reading the page that pops up.

And, you can still be an Assassin or a Thief-Acrobat and handle all the traps in the game.

You cannot finesse a staff. (There is a finessable weapon in the Titan raid that you can finesse though that counts as a qstaff.) If you're dead set on a halfling you could always check out the “Big F’in Stick” (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960) build in the character build forums. There are ways to make it fit into a 28pt build. Also, acrobats can use any other rogue weapon. So, while you don't gain the benefits of qstaff speed you don't lose any benefits by going with a TWF style either.