Another WoP Thread!!! But this time....it's personal!

[Mockduck]

Not writing to debate the pros and cons of the wounding of puncturing change coming in Mod 9. Rather, I'm looking for more info on why Wounding of Enfeebling is being said to be one of the uber types that will be used post mod 9.

Reason? I picked up a +2 Wounding Khopesh of Enfeebling last night. So, what makes this a better option post Mod 9 than basic WoP? Maybe I'm totally off here, but I could have sworn that some folks were saying this would be the uber combo...

[Newtons_Apple]

I haven't personally tested this, but my guess is different types of stat damage may stack for the purposes of the 6-second stun effect.

So for example if you're using a rapier of wounding of enfeebling, the mob will be stunned first by the loss of strength. Then, shortly thereafter, the wounder portion may catch up and re-stun it. This would give most characters enough time to actually beat the mob down to 0 hp with little resistance.

[bobbryan2]

Are you sure they weren't talking with weakening of enfeebling? Still has the same W/E as wounding...

Weakening of Enfeebling is being talked about being a powerful combination now for two reasons. First, it lowers a mob's to hit and damage as it goes off, and most importantly, it stacks with crippling strike.

If a W/P rapier was doing roughly 2 con damage per swing, a W/E rapier would do 4 str damage per swing in the hands of a rogue.

So you can get to autocrit twice as fast if the creature has comparable con and str.

Weakening of puncturing was a nice combo for rogues before this change. Especially against low strength creatures like beholders. The 3 points of str damage/hit incapacitated a beholder in a few swings, and then puncturing would finish him off by piling on tons of con damage afterwards.

Not really sure what wounding of enfeebling would get you other than it's attacking both con and str fairly equally now.

[branmakmuffin]

Not writing to debate the pros and cons of the wounding of puncturing change coming in Mod 9. Rather, I'm looking for more info on why Wounding of Enfeebling is being said to be one of the uber types that will be used post mod 9.

Reason? I picked up a +2 Wounding Khopesh
Bah, if it's not a scimitar or a kukri, it's junk.


of Enfeebling last night. So, what makes this a better option post Mod 9 than basic WoP? Maybe I'm totally off here, but I could have sworn that some folks were saying this would be the uber combo...
Some folks are. And others have said "maladroit of bonebreaking" (as long as it's combined with IC: Bludgeoning). Still others have said "Holy burst of greater bane" will rule the day because DPS will become king. I saw one vote for "holy/anarchic/axiomatic burst picks of maiming" for DPSing monsters brought to 0 CON by WoP.

I doubt we will know until we see it in action. All the "WoP is dead" doomsayers are just whining because their crutch is a little smaller now.

Edit: as bobbyran2 wrote, I'm sure you mean weakening of enfeebling.

[Pyromaniac]

Based on the current test server, DPS is king and stat damage is not very useful now - regardless of type.

Of course the current test server has lightning strike going off about 20% of swings, so there's obviously a few issues that made it through other testing. The scaling is also making it more difficult to test given lots of mobs are now one-shottable.

[Galbbatorix]

Weakening Enfeebling will be better against mobs that are going to melee you, because this weapon will lower their str, thus lowering their damage and chance to hit against you. Some monsters such as beholders weakening enfeebling works great as they have an extremely low str. However the argument in favor of how wops are better is it lowers their hp, killing them faster.

So next mod way I see it is, use weakening enfeebling for mobs that hit hard or have a very low str, and use your wops for mobs who have low con or are casters and don't typically melee you.

[Mockduck]

It probably was weakening of enfeebling. There's been so much discussion re: the change that it can be hard to cut the quality from the rest of the chats...and I mean that in a good way.

Just figured I'd see what people thought.

I've still been using my good good good shroud crafted item on Lammania, it's been as effective as live, so no big changes for my cleric.

[osirisisis]

I haven't personally tested this, but my guess is different types of stat damage may stack for the purposes of the 6-second stun effect.

So for example if you're using a rapier of wounding of enfeebling, the mob will be stunned first by the loss of strength. Then, shortly thereafter, the wounder portion may catch up and re-stun it. This would give most characters enough time to actually beat the mob down to 0 hp with little resistance.

why go thro all the trouble when U could just vorpal him?

[Comfortably]

If a W/P rapier was doing roughly 2 con damage per swing, a W/E rapier would do 4 str damage per swing in the hands of a rogue.





...as long as said rogue is getting sneak attack damage.

[Comfortably]

Weakening Enfeebling will be better against mobs that are going to melee you, because this weapon will lower their str, thus lowering their damage and chance to hit against you. Some monsters such as beholders weakening enfeebling works great as they have an extremely low str. However the argument in favor of how wops are better is it lowers their hp, killing them faster.

So next mod way I see it is, use weakening enfeebling for mobs that hit hard or have a very low str, and use your wops for mobs who have low con or are casters and don't typically melee you.

There is somthing that most wop or woe users dont relize, ever 2 points of con you take away reduces there total hp too, and on a crit possibly doing more damage via the lower con then say... the crit of a Min2.

[honkuimushi]

Not writing to debate the pros and cons of the wounding of puncturing change coming in Mod 9. Rather, I'm looking for more info on why Wounding of Enfeebling is being said to be one of the uber types that will be used post mod 9.

Reason? I picked up a +2 Wounding Khopesh of Enfeebling last night. So, what makes this a better option post Mod 9 than basic WoP? Maybe I'm totally off here, but I could have sworn that some folks were saying this would be the uber combo...

It might be good against Red Names since it would allow you to damage 2 stats at once. The problem is that you give up all DPS modifiers in exchange. That might be an ok tradeoff for a support character in his off hand. The Khopesh isn't bad, but for crit damage effects, the 18-20 crrit range is the only one really compares to an on hit effect. Unlike Bursts, stat damage doesn't increase with a higher Crit multiplier.

A wounder will take off 1 point of Con per hit. Assuming you hit on a 2, over 100 swings that comes to 95 points of Con damage. A Rapier or other 18-20 Crit weapon with crit 30% of the time for 1d6 stat damage. So 30% x 3.5(1d6 average) over 100 swings is 105 Con(or other stat) damage.

So over 100 swings, the Wounder does 95 Con Damage and the WoP does 200 Con damage. As the number required to hit goes up, the damage goes down, but if you have some sort of crit confirmation bonus, the Wounding will be affected more than the Puncturing.

A Khopesh has the second best crit range at 19-20. With Improved Crit you have a 20% chance to crit. When you take 100 swings at 3.5 stat damage per crit you end up with 70 points of Stat Damage. Not bad, but less effective than a Wounder or Weakener.

When you get down to the crits on a 20 weapons, it really fades. With Improved Crit you crit 10% of the time so over 100 swings that ends up at 35 points of Stat damage. This is why bone breking is so unpopular.

A WoP, especially rapiers, short swords and daggers, will still be effective at reaching 0 Con , which will induce stun and autocrit. But without that synergy, I don't see Wounders being useful anymore. Rogues with Weakeners, Enfeebling kukris and scimitars, and WoE anything-- still have a lot of synergy and should be pretty well off.


I would say that your Khopesh is nice now, but will be very sub par except in long fights with Red names come mod 9. Unless of course the Devs alter their plans for some reason.

[GlassCannon]

I haven't personally tested this, but my guess is different types of stat damage may stack for the purposes of the 6-second stun effect.

Exactly. Thus...

THIS is the new Uber Weapon Type.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/sarin_elf/untitled.jpg

Too bad I only have 1 though :(

Worse, it's Gnoll :rolleyes:

[gorloch]

...as long as said rogue is getting sneak attack damage.

In the hands of a rogue I will still say w/p or w/e with a radience rapier in the main hand is still the best way to go. :rolleyes:



PIXA

[Missing_Minds]

Too bad I only have 1 though :(

Worse, it's Gnoll :rolleyes:

ewwww.... racists weapons. I hate those.

But I do have a wounding greater ele bane bow. now that one has always been nice.

[Turial]

A few things to note:

1. Mobs typically have high str values. W/E will be powerful in use with crippling strike and temp debuffs.

2. Mobs typically have low dex values. M/B will be useful for others in conjunction with temp debuffs.

[Galbbatorix]

One more thing about how weakening enfeebling is good: if you like to use trip alot hit the monster with weakening enfeebling a few times and then trip, it will stick more often because their str is lower.

[Meriadeuc]

One more thing about how weakening enfeebling is good: if you like to use trip alot hit the monster with weakening enfeebling a few times and then trip, it will stick more often because their str is lower.

It should work that way, but I seem to recall that someone tested it once and found that it didn't.