Cheat Death Testing and Data Gathering *Spoilers*

[Accelerando]

As I stated in a previous thread, I have been testing out the rogue capstone "Cheat Death" over on Lamannia. This is a mind numbing and tedious task but I have some music to get me through. Over the next few weeks (or months :eek:) until the test server comes down and the mod goes live or they open up some new content I will be adding data here a bit at a time. Anyone else who would like to add to the data pool is welcome to do so via screenshots. Hopefully by the time the mod goes live we will have enough data to make a reasonable assumption as to the effectiveness of this "capstone"

Some other information about this ability, it works exactly like a Resurrection. You return to life with 1/2 health, item damage, and a stacking death penalty. You can run away from your stone and take the res, but there is a 30 second timer attached and then the dialogue box simply disappears.

Cheat death in itself does not break aggro even if you stealth immediately after coming back to life. However if you break line of sight take your res and sneak you can return to your killers and get your SA/ Assasinate.

Cheat works on any kind of death as far as I can tell, bleeding out while incapped, drowning, removal of con items (perhaps via Mordenkainen’s Disjunction as well) etc.

Have not tested in a quest due to the PITA it is due to the somewhat low proc rate, but I am assuming equal function in quests and explorer areas.

All of these deaths in my data occurred in rapid succession, I died, took my Cheat, and died again. Data that have a * next to the first number indicate some sort of bug where the dialogue box popped up and immediately closed without any action on my part. I am not sure at this moment what causes this bug as it has only happened twice so far. It is definately not user error as I am not pressing any buttons, merely standing there naked taking a beating in the Vale.


Data as of 04/19/2008
Death 1: 31 of 50
Death 2: 13 of 30
Death 3: 6* of 13
Death 4: 2 of 5
Death 5: 1* of 2

Please let me know if you have any questions. I will try to run at least 10 deaths a day depending on my workload.

[Draccus]

Good info and thanks for testing this.

I'd like to understand your numbers a little better.

When you say "Death 1: 17 of 15" does that mean on your first death after a rest, you got the Cheat Death message after 17 of the 25 deaths?

If that's the case, it looks like Cheat Death starts out at about a 66% chance and then drops about 15 points every subsequent death. Obviously, there aren't enough data points to judge the fifth death.

Any chance you could get into Part 4 of the Shroud or in the Reaver? The ONLY way I could see this being worth wasting 2 APs on would be if it allowed us to "cheat" the penalty boxes.

If it works that way, I wouldn't be surprised if the new raid has something similar to a death penalty box and all of us complaining about its uselessness will realize that it's got a specific use in the new content. Now, that still may not be enough to make Cheat Death attractive to most rogues but it may not be completely useless.

[Accelerando]

Good info and thanks for testing this.

I'd like to understand your numbers a little better.

When you say "Death 1: 17 of 15" does that mean on your first death after a rest, you got the Cheat Death message after 17 of the 25 deaths?

If that's the case, it looks like Cheat Death starts out at about a 66% chance and then drops about 15 points every subsequent death. Obviously, there aren't enough data points to judge the fifth death.

Yes 17 of 25 is 17 successful "Cheats" out of 25 rested deaths. Also to note I did not rest in the shrine but sat through 2 clickie resets in the Vale tavern before each round.

It is way too small of a data set to gather any real conclusions, but from watching the progression as I died, I am making a wild guess and saying that it probably more like 75% 50% 25% ?% ?%. The last number is probably exceptionally small like in the 1-5% range. I think that I even got the message was just an incredibly lucky roll.




Any chance you could get into Part 4 of the Shroud or in the Reaver? The ONLY way I could see this being worth wasting 2 APs on would be if it allowed us to "cheat" the penalty boxes.

If it works that way, I wouldn't be surprised if the new raid has something similar to a death penalty box and all of us complaining about its uselessness will realize that it's got a specific use in the new content. Now, that still may not be enough to make Cheat Death attractive to most rogues but it may not be completely useless.

I am currently living in Singapore, there are hardly any Shrouds or Reavers on my live server during my play time much less on the test server. :D If I see one or someone wants to organize one I will jump right in there. However it seems like an enormous waste of time to fight all the way to part 4 anywhere from 1-10 times just to see if this effect avoids the penalty box. Perhaps Reaver is a better option.

[Borror0]

I am making a wild guess and saying that it probably more like 75% 50% 25% ?% ?%.
Well, if there really is such a progression on the three first, 12.5 and 6.25 would be the next logical choices.

[Cap_Man]

Great work! Man, you have a lot more patience than I do. Really appreciate you looking into this.

You didn't mention in your post but by the sounds of it I would assume that when you 'cheat death' you also lose all your buffs. That correct?

So far it looks like cheat death gives you the following:

A decreasing chance to auto res
1/2 health
Damaged gear
Stacking Death penalties
Retain aggro
Lose your buffs (?)


Holy cow, they should be giving rogues back AP's for taking this.

Hey, here's a thought, what happens if someone else is trying to raise you when you get the cheat death message? Do you get both dialog boxes and get to choose which one you want? In which case you would probably take the other persons raise since it is 100%.

Webster's Dictionary defines 'Capstone' as: the high point : crowning achievement

From what I am seeing here, Cheat Death aint it.

[Zenako]

Great work! Man, you have a lot more patience than I do. Really appreciate you looking into this.

You didn't mention in your post but by the sounds of it I would assume that when you 'cheat death' you also lose all your buffs. That correct?

So far it looks like cheat death gives you the following:

A decreasing chance to auto res
1/2 health
Damaged gear
Stacking Death penalties
Retain aggro
Lose your buffs (?)


Holy cow, they should be giving rogues back AP's for taking this.

Hey, here's a thought, what happens if someone else is trying to raise you when you get the cheat death message? Do you get both dialog boxes and get to choose which one you want? In which case you would probably take the other persons raise since it is 100%.

Webster's Dictionary defines 'Capstone' as: the high point : crowning achievement

From what I am seeing here, Cheat Death aint it.

Actually I am guessing that if you take the cheat death, you should retain your buffs and avoid your gear taking damage, since if you normally die you would lose aggro in general.

What this is meant for from what I see is to give a "scout" a chance at self resurrection, much like a cleric could use Death Pact, but without some of the downside of Death Pact.

[Accelerando]

Great work! Man, you have a lot more patience than I do. Really appreciate you looking into this.

You didn't mention in your post but by the sounds of it I would assume that when you 'cheat death' you also lose all your buffs. That correct?

So far it looks like cheat death gives you the following:

A decreasing chance to auto res
1/2 health
Damaged gear
Stacking Death penalties
Retain aggro
Lose your buffs (?)


Holy cow, they should be giving rogues back AP's for taking this.

Hey, here's a thought, what happens if someone else is trying to raise you when you get the cheat death message? Do you get both dialog boxes and get to choose which one you want? In which case you would probably take the other persons raise since it is 100%.

Webster's Dictionary defines 'Capstone' as: the high point : crowning achievement

From what I am seeing here, Cheat Death aint it.

Well the Cheat is instantaneous, so there is literally no time for another character to res you first. I think maybe I explained it a little vaguely. Either you get a dialogue box to res or you don't and you are just dead with a release box. So the % chance happens pretty much in between the time you take lethal damage and the time you are considered ready to release.


Actually I am guessing that if you take the cheat death, you should retain your buffs and avoid your gear taking damage, since if you normally die you would lose aggro in general.

What this is meant for from what I see is to give a "scout" a chance at self resurrection, much like a cleric could use Death Pact, but without some of the downside of Death Pact.

There is nothing to guess at. You die, you get the equivalent of the resurrection spell immediately afterwards, *sometimes*.

Did you mean that the mechanic should be different and that you should never die? I totally agree with that. You should retain your buffs, you should not take a death penalty, and you should not take damage to your gear. That is just my opinion on the subject. I do still like this capstone for the first chance you have to res.

[Zenako]

OK was kinda hoping it would work like a last moment divine intervention and "Prevent the Death" (and all of its downsides) which would actually be kinda useful. Not saying I could not find a use for it as is, but it will really be more limited to solo type stuff I think. (Which given other changes in the mod ties together...mmmm)

[Draccus]

One more question for your testing.

What happens if you get an incomming rez from a cleric while you have the Cheat Death window open? The value of this already-low-value capstone would be even lower if the Cleric burns the mana for a rez when you can rez yourself.

[Accelerando]

One more question for your testing.

What happens if you get an incomming rez from a cleric while you have the Cheat Death window open? The value of this already-low-value capstone would be even lower if the Cleric burns the mana for a rez when you can rez yourself.

Not sure, want to meet me on Lammania and throw me a rez? I am assuming the spell goes off and you waste the mana/scroll/clicky.

[Draccus]

Not sure, want to meet me on Lammania and throw me a rez? I am assuming the spell goes off and you waste the mana/scroll/clicky.

Sure thing. Dresek of December 2008 is a gimpy embarrassment but he can certainly throw a raise dead scroll when needed.

Pick a time and I'll try to meet you there.

[Accelerando]

Sure thing. Dresek of December 2008 is a gimpy embarrassment but he can certainly throw a raise dead scroll when needed.

Pick a time and I'll try to meet you there.

As you can see in my sig bro I live in Singapore so I am +12 from EST. I really should be sleeping now. Anyway send me a PM of your alts and I will try to catch you on Ghalla.

[kamimitsu]

Barring Draccus helping you out, give me a holla Cache (I'm up the same time as you) if you want to do additional testing. I'll be on Ghallanda tonight around the same time as always.

[Accelerando]

*Update* 50 Deaths Reached

One odd thing I have noticed is that when I have the misfortune of stabilizing, if I /death and roll to win on Cheat Death I pop up alive w/o having to check the dialogue box. I am not sure if this is a bug or not, but I have hit /death while stabilized and gotten no rez also so its not a bad bug if it is one.

There is another bug which is common in that if one takes any con damage before dying the icon stays up even after your res. You do not have stat damage, it is just the same old display bug.

[Accelerando]

I apologize to the rogue community for copping out on testing this mechanism, but no one seemed to care/ i figured i had a pretty decent sample to get a general idea/ i didn't care either My account is drawing to a close, and so I bid you all farewell at least for the time being. Thanks for all the fun, and keep on piking in quests, at least that is what the barbs vehemently maintain youar are dointg! :rolleyes:

[Comfortably]

I apologize to the rogue community for copping out on testing this mechanism, but no one seemed to care/ i figured i had a pretty decent sample to get a general idea/ i didn't care either My account is drawing to a close, and so I bid you all farewell at least for the time being. Thanks for all the fun, and keep on piking in quests, at least that is what the barbs vehemently maintain youar are dointg! :rolleyes:

Thanks for all the info Cache! ;)

[Accelerando]

Thanks for all the info Cache! ;)

Comf is my minion.

[Comfortably]

Comf is my minion, who keeps track of my search goggles for me.

Fixed it for ya~~

[Accelerando]

Fixed it for ya~~

Gets a laugh every time. ****

[Jajar]

there are about 5 regular singaporeans on Ghallandar.

which server are you on. :)

[Delacroix21]

This doesnt sound like a "cheat death" if you ask me, as I understand it "cheating death" means narrowly escaping death.


This capstone sounds like you DIE and then raise from the dead.

[Draccus]

This doesnt sound like a "cheat death" if you ask me, as I understand it "cheating death" means narrowly escaping death.


This capstone sounds like you DIE and then raise from the dead.

Good point. However, instead of changing the capstone, Turbine would be more likely to change the name to "Cheat Resurrection."