Diplomacy vs. Bluff

[PSU93]

What's more important for a Rogue Assassin, Diplomacy or Bluff?

I understand pretty well how Diplomacy works, but Bluff I have never used. From what I have seen in these forums it can help with Assassinate... but I'm not sure how.

Maybe not a big deal either way, but I just want to make sure I spend my Skill points wisely on a new character.

Thanks.

[wamjratl1]

Bluff only works on a single target and there is an animation involved so it takes longer than diplo. I think, though, that you can bluff even if you don't have team members around for him to aggro on. This is why it would be useful for assasinate.

Diplo is still better overall IMO.

[Borror0]

There is no way to say how useless Bluff is, that would not be an horrendous understatement.

[Accelerando]

Bluff is utter garbage, only marginally good for soloing. Diplo all the way.

[Medic11]

I have an Assassin (14rogue/2ranger). I had enough skill pts/lv that I maxed out both bluff and diplo. Bluff works on a single target and works anytime you have agro. Diplo works on a group of targets but you need a party member close by. I use both alot, bluff more when soloing but I've found it useful in a group at times as well.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Bluff is useful when you are alone and do not have a companion to throw agro onto.
But that's about it IMO.
Diplomacy is a much more useful skill.
But if you have points to spare bluff can be useful in some situations.

[Accelerando]

Bluff is useful when you are alone and do not have a companion to throw agro onto.
But that's about it IMO.
Diplomacy is a much more useful skill.
But if you have points to spare bluff can be useful in some situations.

UMD is my solo bluff. :D

[SableShadow]

I have bluff hotkeyed, but the animation makes it very, very situational. Diplo is so much better. This would change, to some extent, if they took the animation off bluff, as they did with Intimidate and Diplo.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Bluff is useful when you are alone and do not have a companion to throw agro onto.
But that's about it IMO.
Diplomacy is a much more useful skill.
But if you have points to spare bluff can be useful in some situations.

[SableShadow]

Bluff is single target, but works at range.
Bluff doesn't break stealth; diplo does.
Bluff works grouped or solo; diplo only works grouped.
Bluff is the target skill for Improved Feint (AoE bluff, different timer from standard Bluff).

Its got its uses; it's the F4 key on my setup. If you have to choose between the two, go Diplo. If you've got some spare points, it's worth a few points. Best item for Bluff/Diplo is the Ring of Lies, as it gives Bluff, Diplo, and Charisma on a ring slot...making it easier to effectively use either skill on the fly (w/o having to switch items around).

[Borror0]

Bluff doesn't break stealth; diplo does.
Why would you Bluff or Diplo while in stealth?

[SableShadow]

Why would you Bluff or Diplo while in stealth?

Solo on an assassin. If you get light agro, drag it around the corner and start the bluff animation as the mob starts to follow. Time it right and the mob gets bluffed long enough for you to assassinate it w/o getting adds.

Grouped, it would easier to diplo, restealth, then assassinate.

Not uber, but since I already have some points in bluff I've done that a couple times when I was assassin spec'd.

[Brandiwyne]

Why would you Bluff or Diplo while in stealth?


Don't you have to be in stealth mode to assassinate a target?

[SableShadow]

I use bluff, I have points in it. It has some very specific situational uses. It would actually be quite useful if they took the animation out. Despite the fact that I use it in its current form, and even have it hotkeyed, I want to avoid any confusion as far as recommendations:


Diplo is so much better.

[Schmackdown]

If you have Sap and have some time, you can reset a failed Assassinate as easily as Sapping your target, waiting out the Assassinate timer, Bluffing, sneaking, Assassinating. Repeat as often as you fail your Assassinates. Clunky, but it works.

The same can be done with Trip if you have the ability to pull it off reliably, though the Sap proc is guaranteed both in landing and fixed length, unlike Trip.

But overall, yeah, Bluff's place in DDO is pretty disappointing imo, even when used to drive Improved Feint.

[Accelerando]

If you have Sap and have some time, you can reset a failed Assassinate as easily as Sapping your target, waiting out the Assassinate timer, Bluffing, sneaking, Assassinating. Repeat as often as you fail your Assassinates. Clunky, but it works.

The same can be done with Trip if you have the ability to pull it off reliably, though the Sap proc is guaranteed both in landing and fixed length, unlike Trip.

But overall, yeah, Bluff's place in DDO is pretty disappointing imo, even when used to drive Improved Feint.

This is a really interesting tactic you have. How long does sap last? I have never even thought about picking it up. I am assuming this won't also work with diplo while soloing?

[Schmackdown]

Sap's duration exceeds its cooldown, which is 15 seconds. I want to say the duration is 18-20 seconds. It's fixed, I'm just not near a client where I can test it.

Diplo won't work without a summon, charm or hireling, as while Bluff specifically lines the single target up for a sneak attack, all Diplo does is get the mob to find someone else to target. When in a party, Diplomacy effectively acts as Improved Feint should but does not.

Tinkering with the Sap mechanic is pretty easy- just roll up a throwaway toon and go Sap stuff- you fire it off just like you would a Trip or Stunning Blow. Whether it's a CR 0.25 Kobold or a CR 36 Orthon, if you can hit it, you can Sap it.

Sap is generally derided b/c it's nearly impossible to use with a two-hander due to glancing blows, and like any other soft mez it gets wrecked pretty quickly by a marauding party. It can be a great reset button for a rogue in trouble, though, and the lack of a save makes it more approachable than other DC-based tactics, as it requires neither a STR investment nor a swap to a Tactical weapon.