Sell DDO?

[feynman]

Why doesn't Turbine sell DDO to another company? Just a few thoughts:

1. Turbine's focus is elsewhere; 5 quests for 4 levels? They obviously have better things to do.

2. Turbine is unable or unwilling to fix the bugs that negatively affect us within a reasonable timeframe (of course, the ones that help us get fixed in no time flat); one word: .......LAG!

3. One new class in 3 years.

4. "Rules changes" and "bug fixes" that are nerfs in all but name, and are either whimsical or spiteful, because they certainly do not improve the game experience, and usually worsen it. Whoops, time to reroll again! They could just delete characters every 3 months for the same effect and save us the worry.

5. I don't know where the supposed "new players" are; for that matter, I don't see many of the old players. Did you know that the LFM window has a scroll bar if there are more groups than will fit? I remember it distinctly, but haven't seen it in weeks.

This is without even going into the specifics which would prevent anyone from reading this. A more complete rant can be found here (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/163/view/forums/thread/232430/Fire-Turbine.html).

The real question is: Who would buy it?

[Lerincho]

because Atari actually holds the licensing rights, there for Turbine cannot sell out. Atari holds licensing rights for DDO and other D&D products.

[Memnir]

If I'm not mistaken, the graphics engine for DDO is a proprietary bit of software for Turbine, making a sale... complicated. LotRO uses the same engine. IMHO, the game will be shut down before it gets sold off.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg on why it won't be sold...

[ArkoHighStar]

Gaming studios rarely sell of anything, look at NCSOft and Tabula Rasa, they could have sold it off instead they shut it down

[feynman]

because Atari actually holds the licensing rights, there for Turbine cannot sell out. Atari holds licensing rights for DDO and other D&D products.

Ugh.


... the game will be shut down before it gets sold off.


If that's what it takes...

[Lerincho]

If that's what it takes...

so instead of playing a game that is flawed that is still enjoyable, you'd rather just close it down because they do not meet your demands? game is flawed because the game is created by people and people are by definition flawed.

so if i want character to start at 8th level and never have to touch the harbor again, i can demand that or ask them to sell the software?

[The_Phenx]

Too much complaining... the developers JOB is to DEVELOP this game.

Im shure that the people involved really want to loose their jobs... and that is thier ultimate goal in providing updates., and making the game more accesable and interesting to new players.

We get more than our fair share of "testing" platforms. Hireling AI, now the TDM... both of which hung up Mods. Relax... its still an awesome game, they wouldnt invest in its future or continue to develop it if it wasnt profitable.

Do I wish there was more content... YES... is complaining and making threads like Sell DDO going to change it? Will it have any positive impact whatsoever? NOPE.

Instead why not start a "turbine we arent going anywhere because we love this game, please make the next mod entirely content driven and we wont complain thread" Be nice to the people who are making the game for you.

"dont bite the hand that feeds" :mad:

[feynman]

so instead of playing a game that is flawed that is still enjoyable, you'd rather just close it down because they do not meet your demands? game is flawed because the game is created by people and people are by definition flawed.

so if i want character to start at 8th level and never have to touch the harbor again, i can demand that or ask them to sell the software?

It's no longer enjoyable after running almost every quest 20 times (or more, much more). Now the level cap is going up by 4 levels, and we get 5 quests; let's run the math here, that's 100 runs before I'm back at the same place. That'll take, what, a week?

And it's not just the harbor; I was leveling a new fighter for kensai, and it was a progressions of "****, not the same old newbie quests" (yea, revamped, but the same quests) to "****, not the harbor quests again" to "Jeez, STK again?" to "Ugh, another TR run" to "Oh, ****, Gwylan's stand for the millionth time?" to "Maybe if we speed run delera's I won't kill myself" to "Great, another inept TS raid" to "VON, again," and next is "No, leave Karidin alone and let's just finish PoP" and "Come on, guys, stay with me: the crucible maze isn't that difficult," and finally, "Anyone not need a shard of power? Come on, this is 5 runs without even seeing one" and I just don't think I can take any more of it.

The only MMO I've stayed with longer than DDO was the original EQ, and in 3 years, I never ran out of quests, every race had their own starting city and quest chain, there were whole swaths of the game that I had only briefly touched upon, and only one capped character. In a year of DDO, I've at least been inside every quest in the game, have 5 capped characters (3 of whom have been gimped by "rules changes"), and I've done the level 1-8 quests so many times that I get physically ill just thinking about them.

This game is more flawed than most, but it was enjoyably purely because it was based on the tried-and-true D&D system. The fact of the matter is that we will never see another D&D MMO as long as this one still exists, so yes, I want it either sold or shut down, and I'm not sure that I don't lean towards the latter.

[feynman]

Too much complaining... the developers JOB is to DEVELOP this game.

Oh, good; any idea when they are going to start?


Im shure that the people involved really want to loose their jobs... and that is thier ultimate goal in providing updates., and making the game more accesable and interesting to new players.

1. That's not happening
2. What new players?


We get more than our fair share of "testing" platforms. Hireling AI, now the TDM... both of which hung up Mods. Relax... its still an awesome game, they wouldnt invest in its future or continue to develop it if it wasnt profitable.

I don't know, I've seen stupider things done by bigger companies.


Do I wish there was more content... YES... is complaining and making threads like Sell DDO going to change it? Will it have any positive impact whatsoever? NOPE.

Then what will?


Instead why not start a "turbine we arent going anywhere because we love this game, please make the next mod entirely content driven and we wont complain thread" Be nice to the people who are making the game for you.

Yea, because those threads (all 152,895 of them) really convinced them to add more content... in what universe again?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off sounding short with you, but that's all I've heard for as long as I've been playing, and it seems like every mod, we get less and less.

As for "being nice" to the devs, have you ever had any two-way contact with these people? I have, and no longer feel any sympathy whatsoever for them.

[Lerincho]

It's no longer enjoyable after running almost every quest 20 times (or more, much more). Now the level cap is going up by 4 levels, and we get 5 quests; let's run the math here, that's 100 runs before I'm back at the same place. That'll take, what, a week?

And it's not just the harbor; I was leveling a new fighter for kensai, and it was a progressions of "****, not the same old newbie quests" (yea, revamped, but the same quests) to "****, not the harbor quests again" to "Jeez, STK again?" to "Ugh, another TR run" to "Oh, ****, Gwylan's stand for the millionth time?" to "Maybe if we speed run delera's I won't kill myself" to "Great, another inept TS raid" to "VON, again," and next is "No, leave Karidin alone and let's just finish PoP" and "Come on, guys, stay with me: the crucible maze isn't that difficult," and finally, "Anyone not need a shard of power? Come on, this is 5 runs without even seeing one" and I just don't think I can take any more of it.

The only MMO I've stayed with longer than DDO was the original EQ, and in 3 years, I never ran out of quests, every race had their own starting city and quest chain, there were whole swaths of the game that I had only briefly touched upon, and only one capped character. In a year of DDO, I've at least been inside every quest in the game, have 5 capped characters (3 of whom have been gimped by "rules changes"), and I've done the level 1-8 quests so many times that I get physically ill just thinking about them.

This game is more flawed than most, but it was enjoyably purely because it was based on the tried-and-true D&D system. The fact of the matter is that we will never see another D&D MMO as long as this one still exists, so yes, I want it either sold or shut down, and I'm not sure that I don't lean towards the latter.


well if YOU are dissatisfied with the game then you should:
take a break. unsubscribe for a month or two, come back refreshed. most of the founders have done it.

if YOU take the game this seriously then you should:
go out, have a picnic, play fresbie with a dog, take unfortunate kid to a park or zoo, read a book, do a crossword puzzle. DDO is a game, play it because of the enjoyment or move on. Not like you are married to it.

[Borror0]

The real question is: Who would buy it?
Wrong. The real question is: Why sell it?

[akla_thornfist]

with the amount of updates we have had recently this game should be free to play with microtransactions thats where i see it heading in the near future.

how many quest has lotro added in the past year about 20 times the number ddo has and it cost the same. sure some of those quests are lame but alot more then we get.

[Lerincho]

with the amount of updates we have had recently this game should be free to play with microtransactions thats where i see it heading in the near future.

how many quest has lotro added in the past year about 20 times the number ddo has and it cost the same. sure some of those quests are lame but alot more then we get.

but, Akla, how can you compare us, the first born, the unique one with the spoiled child LotR? Don't you know Turbine does in fact love them more than us. No matter how well we do, it will never be enough.

[Memnir]

If that's what it takes...That was not meant as a situation where they would sell it off if/when they shut it down. It was more of a: they'd most likely rather shut it down and bury the game as opposed to selling off. Turbine has too much invested in DDO, from graphics engine to combat system to nuts & bolts code, to make selling the game possible let alone wise.

When the time comes - DDO won't be sold. Just given a quiet burial behind the proverbial barn...

[Lerincho]

That was not meant as a situation where they would sell it off if/when they shut it down. It was more of a: they'd most likely rather shut it down and bury the game as opposed to selling off. Turbine has too much invested in DDO, from graphics engine to combat system to nuts & bolts code, to make selling the game possible let alone wise.

When the time comes - DDO won't be sold. Just given a quiet burial behind the proverbial barn...


think it will be more a political burial. they'll talk about all the things they did to make it live a full life, yet they were the ones holding it back. you know like the obama and hilary meeting after the primary. looked good, but we all know the truth, they aren't friends.

[shores11]

It's no longer enjoyable after running almost every quest 20 times (or more, much more). Now the level cap is going up by 4 levels, and we get 5 quests; let's run the math here, that's 100 runs before I'm back at the same place. That'll take, what, a week?

And it's not just the harbor; I was leveling a new fighter for kensai, and it was a progressions of "****, not the same old newbie quests" (yea, revamped, but the same quests) to "****, not the harbor quests again" to "Jeez, STK again?" to "Ugh, another TR run" to "Oh, ****, Gwylan's stand for the millionth time?" to "Maybe if we speed run delera's I won't kill myself" to "Great, another inept TS raid" to "VON, again," and next is "No, leave Karidin alone and let's just finish PoP" and "Come on, guys, stay with me: the crucible maze isn't that difficult," and finally, "Anyone not need a shard of power? Come on, this is 5 runs without even seeing one" and I just don't think I can take any more of it.

The only MMO I've stayed with longer than DDO was the original EQ, and in 3 years, I never ran out of quests, every race had their own starting city and quest chain, there were whole swaths of the game that I had only briefly touched upon, and only one capped character. In a year of DDO, I've at least been inside every quest in the game, have 5 capped characters (3 of whom have been gimped by "rules changes"), and I've done the level 1-8 quests so many times that I get physically ill just thinking about them.

This game is more flawed than most, but it was enjoyably purely because it was based on the tried-and-true D&D system. The fact of the matter is that we will never see another D&D MMO as long as this one still exists, so yes, I want it either sold or shut down, and I'm not sure that I don't lean towards the latter.

If the game is no longer enjoyable to you QUIT! Do not make a very selfish suggestion to shut down the game because you don't like it. Many other players still think this is the best MMO on the market, I know I do or I would not be paying a penny for it.

[feynman]

well if YOU are dissatisfied with the game then you should:
take a break. unsubscribe for a month or two, come back refreshed. most of the founders have done it.

Did that from August until November.


if YOU take the game this seriously then you should:
go out, have a picnic, play fresbie with a dog, take unfortunate kid to a park or zoo, read a book, do a crossword puzzle. DDO is a game, play it because of the enjoyment or move on. Not like you are married to it.

No, but I am homebound much of the time, and every other MMO out there sucks even worse. D&D is the system to use, and always has been, and it is aggravating to see the potential squandered. Frankly, I will in all likelihood cease to play about 2 weeks after the new mod (5 characters * 14 days w/ 3 day wait = ~20 runs of raid)

[feynman]

If the game is no longer enjoyable to you QUIT! Do not make a very selfish suggestion to shut down the game because you don't like it. Many other players still think this is the best MMO on the market, I know I do or I would not be paying a penny for it.

Wait, why is it that I am the one being selfish? Why could it not as easily be you being selfish by trying to keep a game alive past its expiration date? By that logic, as long as one person is still playing, it's good, because people who quit don't count?

[The_Phenx]

Oh, good; any idea when they are going to start?

1. That's not happening
2. What new players?
I don't know, I've seen stupider things done by bigger companies.
when what will?
Yea, because those threads (all 152,895 of them) really convinced them to add more content... in what universe again?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off sounding short with you, but that's all I've heard for as long as I've been playing, and it seems like every mod, we get less and less.

As for "being nice" to the devs, have you ever had any two-way contact with these people? I have, and no longer feel any sympathy whatsoever for them.

Honestly I have seen more new players recently then any other time since launch. its almost annoying.

I have a slightly different view on some of these things than other folks since I work in a corporate art graphics world. Decisions are made by corporate vp's etc. Yelling and harassing the developers is like beating up the cook at outback because a corporate exec took your favorite item off the menu. When the right way to handle things it to very nicely ask the waitress if the cook would mind making the dish anyway.

Yes with every mod we are getting less and less content...we are getting more and more and more game mechanics. Coding work is very time consuming, error ridden, and lengthy process. Coding work also means they are growing the game as a whole. They would not waste money on things like this if they weren't tryign to make the game evolve.

My take. Someone up in corporate had a meeting with the producers etc, and they sat down and said hey we didnt think it was going anywhere but DDO has managed to hang on, maybe we have something more here than we thought. Is there any way we can come up with to grow the game as a whole, make it more accessable to the "regular" mmo crowd? At the same time I have a feeling it was brought up that we have a lot of older techy type players, so they also decided to use us as a testing platform for new technologies.

That all being said. I am NOT defending Turbine, I think they need to keep an eye on the game as a whole, instead of over focusing on futures at the sake of the current. I am only defending the folks whos job is to design our game. They are not the decision makers, they are the creatives, the ones on the front lines, and oddly enough they are our ONLY advocates. Tolero and the other Forums Mods, they read our complaints, and they relay them.

Do they not tell us everything? Of course not, you do not discuss corporate business strategy with your clientele. Do they wish they could say stuff, of course, but if they are told not to relay certain information do not expect them to risk their careers to float you a tidbit.

This is why we should criticize them, but when we do.. make it logical and well put out arguments, Screaming badgering and insulting someone is not a good way to get them to affect changes, or to talk to their superiors to try and make changes on our behalfs.

And yes I have had one on one's with some of the dev's over the years.

Whats the solution? Talk to Fernando, who is our new senior producer, let him know that aside from all the game mechanics they are developing we really would like content to hold a higher position of importance... and do this as a community, in a positive way. Instead of **** the TDM SUXXORS... Report a problem give tech data so they can fix it, Lamania is a BETA server for testing purposes, and is voluntary, they put stuff there to FIND the problems, and it is never expected to be perfect at that point, except by the people on this forum.

So saying Sell DDO... doesn't help anything and just stirs up more of the same issues we have all over the forums.

[branmakmuffin]

The only MMO I've stayed with longer than DDO was the original EQ, and in 3 years, I never ran out of quests, every race had their own starting city and quest chain, there were whole swaths of the game that I had only briefly touched upon, and only one capped character. In a year of DDO, I've at least been inside every quest in the game, have 5 capped characters (3 of whom have been gimped by "rules changes"), and I've done the level 1-8 quests so many times that I get physically ill just thinking about them.
And were your playing habits the same when you played EQ? If not, if you played less, there's your answer. If you played the same amount of time, why don't you still play EQ, if it's so much better?


Wait, why is it that I am the one being selfish? Why could it not as easily be you being selfish by trying to keep a game alive past its expiration date?
There's just no response to that kind of reasoning. :rolleyes: So the game has expired for you, therefore the game has expired.

[Lerincho]

Did that from August until November.



No, but I am homebound much of the time, and every other MMO out there sucks even worse. D&D is the system to use, and always has been, and it is aggravating to see the potential squandered. Frankly, I will in all likelihood cease to play about 2 weeks after the new mod (5 characters * 14 days w/ 3 day wait = ~20 runs of raid)


well mister answer for everything, if you are that close to quitting, why delay, just leave.

[Borror0]

I thought it was a good thread to post this in. Those are the visits per week, on the wiki.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2375/ddowikivisists.png

[feynman]

Honestly I have seen more new players recently then any other time since launch. its almost annoying.

I have a slightly different view on some of these things than other folks since I work in a corporate art graphics world. Decisions are made by corporate vp's etc. Yelling and harassing the developers is like beating up the cook at outback because a corporate exec took your favorite item off the menu. When the right way to handle things it to very nicely ask the waitress if the cook would mind making the dish anyway.

Yes with every mod we are getting less and less content...we are getting more and more and more game mechanics. Coding work is very time consuming, error ridden, and lengthy process. Coding work also means they are growing the game as a whole. They would not waste money on things like this if they weren't tryign to make the game evolve.

My take. Someone up in corporate had a meeting with the producers etc, and they sat down and said hey we didnt think it was going anywhere but DDO has managed to hang on, maybe we have something more here than we thought. Is there any way we can come up with to grow the game as a whole, make it more accessable to the "regular" mmo crowd? At the same time I have a feeling it was brought up that we have a lot of older techy type players, so they also decided to use us as a testing platform for new technologies.

That all being said. I am NOT defending Turbine, I think they need to keep an eye on the game as a whole, instead of over focusing on futures at the sake of the current. I am only defending the folks whos job is to design our game. They are not the decision makers, they are the creatives, the ones on the front lines, and oddly enough they are our ONLY advocates. Tolero and the other Forums Mods, they read our complaints, and they relay them.

Do they not tell us everything? Of course not, you do not discuss corporate business strategy with your clientele. Do they wish they could say stuff, of course, but if they are told not to relay certain information do not expect them to risk their careers to float you a tidbit.

This is why we should criticize them, but when we do.. make it logical and well put out arguments, Screaming badgering and insulting someone is not a good way to get them to affect changes, or to talk to their superiors to try and make changes on our behalfs.

And yes I have had one on one's with some of the dev's over the years.

Whats the solution? Talk to Fernando, who is our new senior producer, let him know that aside from all the game mechanics they are developing we really would like content to hold a higher position of importance... and do this as a community, in a positive way. Instead of **** the TDM SUXXORS... Report a problem give tech data so they can fix it, Lamania is a BETA server for testing purposes, and is voluntary, they put stuff there to FIND the problems, and it is never expected to be perfect at that point, except by the people on this forum.

So saying Sell DDO... doesn't help anything and just stirs up more of the same issues we have all over the forums.

That is sort of interesting; my only contention is that the devs have a lot more input into the process than you imply. Sure, ham-handed executives and clueless middle managers can make idiotic decisions, but my experience has been that, especially in the IT industry, they make decisions on input from the people doing the work, both explicit and implicit, and all too often the input amounts to "this is the easiest way to make a change that looks like we're doing something," and the suits don't know the difference. Do you think the board of directors of Turbine play these games? I doubt it, for the same reason that I doubt the AIG execs had their money invested in their own company.

We've tried logic; I feel that my list was substantial and reasonable, in fact I left things out because we're not allowed to talk about them (check the link). And it's not just the lack of content:

Exhibit A:

When monks were first released, about half of the handwrap effects didn't work properly: ghost touch, vicious, stat damage, etc. The one that benefitted us, vicious (did damage to enemy but not to us) got fixed almost immediately, but most of the others are still broken almost a year later. And, of course, no green steel handwraps.

How many of these do you need? We see them every day, and all we get in response is silence from Turbine and derail posts from the forum trolls.

New players keep being mentioned, but I never meet them, despite playing with new characters almost constantly, and the new player experience in this game is the worst in any MMO on the market; what other game all but forces you to run every quest multiple times before you're allowed to make a "real" character? No 32-point builds seriously hampers new players, and makes certain classes all but unplayable (monk, paladin, bard).

Now they want to play with the mechanics of the game, as if that were the problem and not the monotony of running the same old quests into the ground. It's actually getting worse, because we have a sharp drop in the number of quests after about level 14, and only 5 quests between level 18 and 20, assuming that all of the new content is that high.

The only excuse would be ignorance of the desires of the players, but that falls apart because that has been the single biggest request for the entire run of the game. Unless they are intentionally isolating the devs from the forums, which, again, I've seen stupider things, so I'm not ruling it out, then they know what people want, they're just not giving it to us.

Again, I agree that this is the best MMO out right now, but more are coming every week, and sooner or later someone else will do it better, and then what?

[Lerincho]

so what you're saying is you wiki better than anyone?

[Borror0]

so what you're saying is you wiki better than anyone?
No. I am saying that the visits are rising insanely quickly since November and this not caused by anything in particular.

Logical conclusion: DDO is not dying.

[Lerincho]

bah, bringing logic to a forums. you should know better borro.

[akla_thornfist]

so how many are repeat visitors, 40 or 50 of those numbers are from me:D

[feynman]

And were your playing habits the same when you played EQ? If not, if you played less, there's your answer. If you played the same amount of time, why don't you still play EQ, if it's so much better?

1. Actually, I play DDO less than I played EQ, much, much less; I averaged 4 hours per day for a year. In DDO, I average about 8 hours a week.

2. EQ's time has come and gone; the graphics are hopelessly out of date, the world is a sprawling mess from all of the expansions, and unless you personally know people who play, there's not much to do. Besides, the level cap has gone up twice since I left, which makes it almost impossible to catch up.


There's just no response to that kind of reasoning. :rolleyes: So the game has expired for you, therefore the game has expired.

No, it's a logical extension of your premise; your implication was that my opinion counts less than yours because I don't like the way the game is going and will likely quit. By that logic, only the opinions of people who continue to play count, meaning that you don't listen to any criticism whatsoever. Guess what happens then? Everyone but you quits.


well mister answer for everything, if you are that close to quitting, why delay, just leave.

Well, what happens with that attitude? Upset with your husband? Just leave, don't try to fix your marriage. Don't like your boss? Just quit. Something bad happen in your life? Then it's time to kill yourself.

Nonsense.

These complaints that you and others like you insist on belittling are constructive criticism; we post these things because we care about the game and want it to stay alive and fun.

Here's a better question: Why did you even post? I answered your original questions, and now you just want me to leave?

[The_Phenx]

That is sort of interesting; my only contention is that the devs have a lot more input into the process than you imply.

Input YES.. do they have creative meetings I am positive of it. But I can all but guarantee they do not set the priority list. The executive producer does that.

Being on the good sides of the devs so they fight harder for what we want in those meetings is all I am saying.

They could be our biggest advocates, as opposed to being miffed and irritated that all we do is badger and berate them.

But to insinuate that they are purposefully angering and alienating thier client base is rediculous. All of our little collectible turn in guys are now being re-tasked... so hopefully that will be bringing a full tiered crafting mechanic using the previous collectibles. As far as bug fixing some things are just 1 line of code.. some things are one number that when you change it breaks 200,000 lines somewhere else for god only knows what reason. We can only hope that after they get the mechanics changed for whatever protocol they ar efollowing that they will being dumping content.

Stay positive, make requests... hell make them every day, but yeling is only going to Pi** off the olny people who may be on our side.

[Lerincho]

These complaints that you and others like you insist on belittling are constructive criticism; we post these things because we care about the game and want it to stay alive and fun.

Here's a better question: Why did you even post? I answered your original questions, and now you just want me to leave?

Really? I belittle constructive criticism?
1, "Sell DDO" is not constructive.
2, Look in the suggestion boards, and you will see that I am calling out the Paiz family in a constructive and diplomatic way.
3, Have you actually run EVERY single quest in this game 20+ times?

Why did I even post? Because I can, and because Turbine doesn't hold the rights to DDO, they are in partnerships with Atari, who is the rightful owner of the rights.

[Borror0]

so how many are repeat visitors, 40 or 50 of those numbers are from me:D
Those are visits, so it depends on your habits.

Google Analytics defines a visit as:


Visits represent the number of individual sessions initiated by all the visitors to your site. If a user is inactive on your site for 30 minutes or more, any future activity will be attributed to a new session. Users that leave your site and return within 30 minutes will be counted as part of the original session.

The initial session by a user during any given date range is considered to be an additional visit and an additional visitor. Any future sessions from the same user during the selected time period are counted as additional visits, but not as additional visitors.


Here is the number of visitors (per week):
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2343/ddowikivisitors.png

Pretty much follows the same trend.

PS: The both graphs are conservative as some visitors may not be detected by Google Analytics. Causes of this includes, but are not limited to, disabling cookies, Firefox's Adblock and NoScript or visiting from mobile phones.

[Demoyn]

No. I am saying that the visits are rising insanely quickly since November and this not caused by anything in particular.



Actually, it is caused by something in particular. I learned about the wiki in November!

[feynman]

Input YES.. do they have creative meetings I am positive of it. But I can all but guarantee they do not set the priority list. The executive producer does that.

Being on the good sides of the devs so they fight harder for what we want in those meetings is all I am saying.

They could be our biggest advocates, as opposed to being miffed and irritated that all we do is badger and berate them.

But to insinuate that they are purposefully angering and alienating thier client base is rediculous. All of our little collectible turn in guys are now being re-tasked... so hopefully that will be bringing a full tiered crafting mechanic using the previous collectibles. As far as bug fixing some things are just 1 line of code.. some things are one number that when you change it breaks 200,000 lines somewhere else for god only knows what reason. We can only hope that after they get the mechanics changed for whatever protocol they ar efollowing that they will being dumping content.

Stay positive, make requests... hell make them every day, but yeling is only going to Pi** off the olny people who may be on our side.

Again, I must respectfully disagree; I've worked in all too many jobs where disdain for the customer was the norm, not the exception (I worked for a certain multinational computer corp.), and the general feeling was that suckers always come back for more.

Now, it may be that they simply have their priorities mixed up; that they feel that attracting new players is more important than keeping them. As the man says, "You can't fix stupid." I would hate that, though, because it means that the game is doomed, and we'll all be back to playing some cartoonish WoW-clone.

I have always given the benefit of the doubt, but in Turbine's case, I have always been proven wrong when I have done so; again, things we can't talk about. :( At any rate, I feel that the community has been forthright about what needs fixing and in what order, and that we have been not simply ignored but actively spurned by the devs. If is upsets them that we resent it, then I don't think that it's our problem; it's theirs.

[Uska]

Ugh.



If that's what it takes...

If thats how you feel why are you still here?:confused:

[feynman]

If thats how you feel why are you still here?:confused:

LOL, then why did you post? You advocate giving up on lost causes by... not giving up on a lost cause? Is this a zen thing, like the sound of one hand flapping?

[Drider]

For the OP:

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/facepalm.jpg

[Borror0]

For the OP:
I'll help:
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8227/facepalm2kx3.jpg

[Demoyn]

Again, I must respectfully disagree; I've worked in all too many jobs where disdain for the customer was the norm, not the exception (I worked for a certain multinational computer corp.), and the general feeling was that suckers always come back for more.

Now, it may be that they simply have their priorities mixed up; that they feel that attracting new players is more important than keeping them. As the man says, "You can't fix stupid." I would hate that, though, because it means that the game is doomed, and we'll all be back to playing some cartoonish WoW-clone.

I have always given the benefit of the doubt, but in Turbine's case, I have always been proven wrong when I have done so; again, things we can't talk about. :( At any rate, I feel that the community has been forthright about what needs fixing and in what order, and that we have been not simply ignored but actively spurned by the devs. If is upsets them that we resent it, then I don't think that it's our problem; it's theirs.


This is pure truth.

[The_Phenx]

Again, I must respectfully disagree; I've worked in all too many jobs where disdain for the customer was the norm, not the exception (I worked for a certain multinational computer corp.), and the general feeling was that suckers always come back for more.

Now, it may be that they simply have their priorities mixed up; that they feel that attracting new players is more important than keeping them. As the man says, "You can't fix stupid." I would hate that, though, because it means that the game is doomed, and we'll all be back to playing some cartoonish WoW-clone.

I have always given the benefit of the doubt, but in Turbine's case, I have always been proven wrong when I have done so; again, things we can't talk about. :( At any rate, I feel that the community has been forthright about what needs fixing and in what order, and that we have been not simply ignored but actively spurned by the devs. If is upsets them that we resent it, then I don't think that it's our problem; it's theirs.

Shrug...opinions.

I think they are after new players and new life, which in the long run is better, but in the short term means less things to do. But saying the dev's are calling the shots on what is being actively developed for the game is silly, I blame corporate and the producers, which normally set the priority listing.

We have been forthright about what we want... the small minority who is actually on the forums, and we disagree with eachother a majority of the time. Unify behind one idea and push it home poilitely and we may see some action.

Who is right? we will never know unless we get a mole inside Turbine... NOW THAT is an idea worth looking into.

[branmakmuffin]

your implication was that my opinion counts less than yours because I don't like the way the game is going and will likely quit.
No, your opinion counts less because you're not me.

[feynman]

Shrug...opinions.

I think they are after new players and new life, which in the long run is better, but in the short term means less things to do. But saying the dev's are calling the shots on what is being actively developed for the game is silly, I blame corporate and the producers, which normally set the priority listing.

1. In the long run, the game will eventually die.
2. I guarantee that you can model player retention rate by exponential decay, meaning that you lose more new players than old players; this means that, depending on the constants, you need x new players to replace every 1 old player who leaves. Every business major has to know the math, and it is telling you that retaining existing players is much easier (=more profitable) than attracting new players.


We have been forthright about what we want... the small minority who is actually on the forums, and we disagree with eachother a majority of the time. Unify behind one idea and push it home poilitely and we may see some action.

Yes and no; we disagree about respec mechanisms, which new race/class to implement next, etc. I think the community is fairly unified behind the idea that content and bug fixes (real bug fixes, not more nerfs) should take priority over cosmetic changes, but that's exactly the opposite of what we keep getting.


Who is right? we will never know unless we get a mole inside Turbine... NOW THAT is an idea worth looking into.

I can set up one-way blind, secure communications if you've got the money, unless you're planning on blackmail? It is a good idea, although if we're going that far, we ought to be trying to influence the direction of the game, too :)


No, your opinion counts less because you're not me.

And like all solipsist arguments, it is only valid within your own frame of reference. Try again. Or not. Preferably not.