Bump existing quests to level 17-20

[Angelus_dead]

Naturally there are a lot of complaints today that Lammania is only showing 4 new quests + 1 raid, even though characters have 4 more XP levels they can advance through. What's that mean, repeat one quest per level?

For a fairly cheap way for Turbine to adjust this problem, I suggest grabbing some existing quests and cranking them up by +10 CR on the monsters, traps, and loot. That won't be as good as genuinely new high level missions, but it'll be a lot faster and better than nothing.

Possibilities:
1. It's already been announced that Dreams of Insanity and Dead Shall Rise have been tweaked with new loot, so why not raise their level at the same time? That would have the added benefit of preventing characters of over +7 levels above the quest from farming it for loot, and instead having it run by matching level.

2. Other quests that seem low popularity: Enemy Within, Whisperdoom, Made To Order, Atraxia Haven.

3. Old raid series, like VON or Titan. You'd want to boost up some of the raid loot as well. This choice would have the added benefit of preventing overlevel characters from tediously farming raid loot from missions that no longer hold any challenge for them.

Naturally, you couldn't pick all of the above choices- you'd need to leave some behind for lowbies.

[moorewr]

Naturally there are a lot of complaints today that Lammania is only showing 4 new quests + 1 raid, even though characters have 4 more XP levels they can advance through. What's that mean, repeat one quest per level?

For a fairly cheap way for Turbine to adjust this problem, I suggest grabbing some existing quests and cranking them up by +10 CR on the monsters, traps, and loot. That won't be as good as genuinely new high level missions, but it'll be a lot faster and better than nothing.

Possibilities:
1. It's already been announced that Dreams of Insanity and Dead Shall Rise have been tweaked with new loot, so why not raise their level at the same time? That would have the added benefit of preventing characters of over +7 levels above the quest from farming it for loot, and instead having it run by matching level.

2. Other quests that seem low popularity: Enemy Within, Whisperdoom, Made To Order, Atraxia Haven.

3. Old raid series, like VON or Titan. You'd want to boost up some of the raid loot as well. This choice would have the added benefit of preventing overlevel characters from tediously farming raid loot from missions that no longer hold any challenge for them.

Naturally, you couldn't pick all of the above choices- you'd need to leave some behind for lowbies.

We've been among those who have suggested re-using maps from existing quest chains - Invaders is a an existing use of this idea. Various maps invite revisiting or minor tweaking to take endgame content.

you could "revisit" a location in, say, Three Barrel Cove to face a CR30 Sahuagin Pirate King. Maybe in a large water filled cave. Just for example.

[Borror0]

It would be nice to have a 9.1 update with a lot of quests without necessarily being part of a storyline, like we've seen in the past.

This time, those quests should be near the cap (lv 19 would be a good target).

[Belwaar]

There was a thread a while back that talked about cool raids we'd like to see. I, for one, wouldn't be opposed to a Hydra raid in the 3bc for higher levels. Or make another difficulty setting like, "God Mode" which kicks it up a bit after elite. Just a couple of ideas:rolleyes:

[Bradik_Losdar]

Rehashing old content is bad all around.

It starts a slippery slope.

Instead of the devs actually creating NEW quests, they can get away with just "bumping" old quests to a higher difficulty level with every Mod release. It will eventually get to a point where we we be running even first level quests at difficulty level 20. There is PLENTY of XP available to get characters to level 20 in game now by reruning quests. No need to waste development time better spent making new quests than to "rework" old ones so they can, um, be rerun. See what I mean?

I for one want something NEW to challenge my top level characters, not more rehashing of quests I've already done (even the less popular ones).

[Hafeal]

Are there any new mid or lower level quests? Explorer zone?

[moorewr]

If the devs don't reply to this thread, that's proof there's going to be a pirate king raid! Pass the word!

[Borror0]

If the devs don't reply to this thread, that's proof there's going to be a pirate king raid! Pass the word!
Eight minutes have passed without a reply! They will do a pirate raid in Module 9.1!!!

[ArkoHighStar]

Are there any new mid or lower level quests? Explorer zone?

twiligt forge area is geting converted to explorer that is it

[Angelus_dead]

If the devs don't reply to this thread, that's proof there's going to be a pirate king raid! Pass the word!
Obviously that's what's happening in the now-closed Black Loch area.

Plus the raid drops tokens which let you buy player housing in the form of a ship, which you can park in any ocean zone.

[moorewr]

Obviously that's what's happening in the now-closed Black Loch area.

Plus the raid drops tokens which let you buy player housing in the form of a ship, which you can park in any ocean zone.

That be a pirate ship! Yarrr!

[SableShadow]

Plus the raid drops tokens which let you buy player housing in the form of a ship, which you can park in any ocean zone.

Srsly? I thought the tokens went toward the purchase of a purple llama:

http://www.markeedragon.com/screenshots/data/522/2321.jpg


OT: I think refurbishing old quests would be a useful way to go. Seems like a big part of the work of a quest is creating the map. A strength of DDO is custom dungeons; a weakness of DDO is custom dungeons.

[ArkoHighStar]

That be a pirate ship! Yarrr!

ship to ship combat, you heard it here first, Turbine is buying pirates of the burning seas and incorporating it into DDO

[Aerniel]

lvl 20 waterworks with paragon kobolds, collossal dire wolves, and fiendish ogres!!! :3:):):):):)

[vtecfiend99]

Great idea that's been asked for so many times it's crazy.


Doesn't seem like it would be that hard? Simply jack up all th emoster,traps,chests and xp to level cap areas and have at it.


Level 20 stormcleave anyone? Those skellies that pop up by the portal now cast Mord's on you!!! lol:eek:


All those **** ant kobolds in the begining are red named copies of the end boss from Enter the Koblold! Complete with summons! man, now that sounds fun!

Ahh to dream, this would make so many old unused quests come back to life

[Aerniel]

Obviously that's what's happening in the now-closed Black Loch area.



it cant be :(


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEZZ!!!!

[ArkoHighStar]

tempest spine is a perfect area to use, it has a massive outdoor area seen by few, and large overall map, with indoor areas rarely used. Have it now occupied by the forces of xoriat or something else

[Samadhi]

I also really like the idea of re-using terrains. As they did with HIPS, it is kind of cool - doesn't really feel repetitive - and of such a different level difference as to not really need a whole backstory (not every quest needs to be epic or interconnected).

If this makes more content cheaper, which I would think it would HAVE to do - then do it.

[Impaqt]

Meh, we only actually have 3 leves to progess since most everyone is capped at -1 from 17.

4 new quests plus a raid...

over 20 other Quests that can be run with little to no XP Penalties on at least one difficulty level.

tens of thousands of XP in the slayer areas...

I dont forsee any difficulty recapping at all.

[moorewr]

Meh, we only actually have 3 leves to progess since most everyone is capped at -1 from 17.

4 new quests plus a raid...

over 20 other Quests that can be run with little to no XP Penalties on at least one difficulty level.

tens of thousands of XP in the slayer areas...

I dont forsee any difficulty recapping at all.

The problem isn't capping, it's boredom.

[QuantumFX]

lvl 20 waterworks with paragon kobolds, collossal dire wolves, and fiendish ogres!!! :3:):):):):)

And Half Dragon Paragon Kobold Sorcs!

And it was to be a 12 man raid with the requirement that the entire party has to collect at the entrance after you rescue Venn! (Who is secretly Coyle!)

And oozes!

[SableShadow]

The problem isn't capping, it's boredom.

I'm inclined to agree.

I see recycling old maps as a quick way to produce additional quests; change the monsters, tweak some of the statics, and the quest completion requirements, and off we go with, for instance, a story line that involves devils taking over Splinterskull and using it as a base of operations. Don't recylce *everything*, but a few recycled quests might be kinda cool, depending on which ones they chose.

If the maps are not the easy part of quests (and I have no way of knowing from where I sit here...), then the idea doesn't help.

Waterworks isn't one I'd choose, myself. :D

[Bradik_Losdar]

The problem isn't capping, it's boredom.

And running the same quests all over again (albeit with pumped up mobs) aleviates this how?

The precious little develpment time we have in DDO should be used for NEW content, not wasted on rehashing old stuff.

[moorewr]

And running the same quests all over again (albeit with pumped up mobs) aleviates this how?

The precious little develpment time we have in DDO should be used for NEW content, not wasted on rehashing old stuff.

Let me see if I can spell this out for you:

Nobody is saying re-use the PLOTS, just the maps.
This idea would not take time away from all new quests, or comparatively little, because instance design & art are substantial portions of the quest creation process.

What Turbine is doing is not working. It is failing to produce enough new things to do. This is one suggestion for a fix - what's yours?

[Stormanne]

While I've not seen this first hand, a guildie has said that there are actually much more than 4 quests and a raid. He said he picked up at least 9 quests just in one area alone...still speculation mind you, but that is the info that has been passed to us from first hand experience thus far...

[Lorichie]

While I've not seen this first hand, a guildie has said that there are actually much more than 4 quests and a raid. He said he picked up at least 9 quests just in one area alone...still speculation mind you, but that is the info that has been passed to us from first hand experience thus far...

hmm, is that area the new "town"? i only found four quests, the portal to the outdoor area and i believe the guy that gives you raid once your task is done. i'll have to check again. all i saw other than that is vendors, trainers etc.

R

[Borror0]

The more I think of it, the more the idea of a giant seam monster raid in Three Barrel Cove sounds fun to me.

[Angelus_dead]

Nobody is saying re-use the PLOTS, just the maps.
Some people said that. There are multiple ways to approach the problem:

Creating whole new quests is the most costly. Tweaking the level of threats in existing quests is cheapest. And recycling a map terrain to host a new quest is in-between, depending on how much editing is done to it (HIPS and Invaders had a lot of alteration)


Regarding the cheapest choice: Imagine for a moment that Turbine suffered a data-storage failure and all their mobs, traps, and loot levels got reset to CR 1, and nobody could even remember what level the quests had been. If they were starting from scratch to assign levels to 225 quests, how many would they pick of each level, knowing that their game has 20 character levels, that leveling goes slower as you get higher, and that capped characters will remain at 20 for an extended period?

It probably wouldn't have 20 quests at level 2, 5 at 16, 2 at 18, and 1 at 20. No, if it were being designed from scratch the higher levels would have the bulk of the quests. That would be a superior overall design.

Currently DDO suffers two related problems: insufficient quests at level 18-20, and some quests of level 8-14 that are so unpopular they might as well not exist. Both could be solved if the unpopular low-level quests were re-released 5-10 levels higher.

[Angelus_dead]

While I've not seen this first hand, a guildie has said that there are actually much more than 4 quests and a raid. He said he picked up at least 9 quests just in one area alone...still speculation mind you, but that is the info that has been passed to us from first hand experience thus far...
Well, if you go to Meridia (from mod 6) you can pick up 17 quest assignments... that doesn't mean there are 17 quests there. Some of them are real, some are one-time raid-flagging advancement, and some are collection quests that wouldn't even count if they weren't totally broken.

[Lewcipher]

Rehashing old content is bad all around.

It starts a slippery slope.

Instead of the devs actually creating NEW quests, they can get away with just "bumping" old quests to a higher difficulty level with every Mod release. It will eventually get to a point where we we be running even first level quests at difficulty level 20. There is PLENTY of XP available to get characters to level 20 in game now by reruning quests. No need to waste development time better spent making new quests than to "rework" old ones so they can, um, be rerun. See what I mean?

I for one want something NEW to challenge my top level characters, not more rehashing of quests I've already done (even the less popular ones).

So someone actually goes to 3BC?

[Bradik_Losdar]

If they were starting from scratch to assign levels to 225 quests, how many would they pick of each level, knowing that their game has 20 character levels, that leveling goes slower as you get higher, and that capped characters will remain at 20 for an extended period?

It probably wouldn't have 20 quests at level 2, 5 at 16, 2 at 18, and 1 at 20. No, if it were being designed from scratch the higher levels would have the bulk of the quests. That would be a superior overall design.

Currently DDO suffers two related problems: insufficient quests at level 18-20, and some quests of level 8-14 that are so unpopular they might as well not exist. Both could be solved if the unpopular low-level quests were re-released 5-10 levels higher.

Very well put.

I couldn't agree more that there really is far too little top end content. IF, and this is a big if, the devs were able to revamp the 'unpopular' quests to near cap levels AND make them FUN, I would be all for it.

However, there are a lot of reasons for some of these mid-level quests being so unpopular: low xp for risk, treasure rewards sub-par to other like level quests, etc. But the real biggie is - they plain aren't fun to run regardless of level. Even if they were bumped to level 20, they probably still wouldn't get run because they suck so badly.

So if the devs were able to upgrade these "might as well not exist" quests into high level "FUN to run" quests (because at cap we really don't care how much xp they give) WITHOUT taking a chunk of time from developing NEW high level content, it would be a very good alternative (a little content is better than none).

But, as I have said before, I would still rather see the devs use 100% of their time working on new things than spending time rehashing/upgrading old content.

[Uska]

Sorry dont want to really see them reworking old quests rather see those left alone for new players and get all new quests for us

[moorewr]

Some people said that.

Yes - I realized after I posted my reply I'd overstated my case. Several replies in this thread do suggest just that.

If I can comment on replies which run "no, just give us new quests;" that's not the choice we have here. Turbine is delivering 4 quests in Mod 9 and delivered four in Mod 8 - I'm saying deliver those plus more quests by re-using zones. Is something better than nothing, and if not, why not?

[Furysetzer]

A_D's suggestion is right on the money. Reset all quest monsters, XP gains, et al. Getting high enough to be in Gianthold is a pain, and level 12 is such a time sink, because by then you've ran all the GH quests multiple times. The experience gain in this game needs a serious overhaul, moreso than an adjustment by how many party members there are in a dungeon.

Since I think that lvl 20 may be the end of the line, unless we get epic levels to 30, this game needs some rebalancing...

[SableShadow]

Some people said that.

Doh! I failz teh reading comprehensionz! :(

I'm with you now; don't even recycle, just *move*. My bad, I think I still have a similar, but different topic in my head from a ways back.

And, yah, that would work great!

[Hafeal]

So someone actually goes to 3BC?

Yeah, many do. It is a great area since it has been re-done. You should visit. :)

[Bradik_Losdar]

Yes - I realized after I posted my reply I'd overstated my case. Several replies in this thread do suggest just that.

If I can comment on replies which run "no, just give us new quests;" that's not the choice we have here. Turbine is delivering 4 quests in Mod 9 and delivered four in Mod 8 - I'm saying deliver those plus more quests by re-using zones. Is something better than nothing, and if not, why not?

If I can go off topic here for a sec....

One of the biggest reasons why we are getting so few new quests is that with the release of the last few modules, the development team has been primarily working on game mechanics and not adventure content. Hirelings were the big distraction in Mod 8. In the newest Mod, the upgrade to level 20 for ALL classes, the 'new' combat system, and download manager are the major things which have pulled talent from designing and producing new quests.

Obviously there are reasons behind the decision to make these things a priority over new quests (porting to console anyone?), whether for good (level 20!) or bad (new download manger). Yes DDO isn't doing as well as it should, but rehashing old quests isn't going to save it either.

This is by far the best MMO on the market today - I would not have spent 3 years of non-stop play in it otherwise (and I have played tried many other MMOs). Its combat system kicks all others to the curb. The grouping mechanics are the best in the business - making it a true MMO. Most of the existing content is increadibly fun to play through, even after dozens of runs.

What is really needed is for DDO to be noticed. And that means advertising.

More players = more money = more developers = more content. Perhaps this is what the Producers are going for in the big picture. By putting in place these new mechanics they hope to pave the way to a much larger player base when they finally convince Atari to pull out all the stops and start a major advertising campaign for DDO (which had better come soon). If this is true then I can forgive them for the temporary diversion of manpower from adventure content. However, if the changes made were meant to BE the advertising (if you build it they will come), then they have made a increadibly poor decision and will have probably doomed DDO to obscurity.

[Borror0]

What is really needed is for DDO to be noticed. And that means advertising.
I don't disagree but it's obvious DDO is not ready for advertising yet. Many of the problems from launch are not fixed, yet.

Thus, the problem is that DDO has to survive until then. High end content is needed for that.

[moorewr]

If I can go off topic here for a sec....

One of the biggest reasons why we are getting so few new quests is that with the release of the last few modules, the development team has been primarily working on game mechanics and not adventure content.

I agree - and this was a crucial mistake about priorities on their part.

[VirieSquichie]

Rehashing old content is bad all around.

It starts a slippery slope.

Instead of the devs actually creating NEW quests, they can get away with just "bumping" old quests to a higher difficulty level with every Mod release. It will eventually get to a point where we we be running even first level quests at difficulty level 20. There is PLENTY of XP available to get characters to level 20 in game now by reruning quests. No need to waste development time better spent making new quests than to "rework" old ones so they can, um, be rerun. See what I mean?

I for one want something NEW to challenge my top level characters, not more rehashing of quests I've already done (even the less popular ones).


I'm inclined to agree.

I see recycling old maps as a quick way to produce additional quests; change the monsters, tweak some of the statics, and the quest completion requirements, and off we go with, for instance, a story line that involves devils taking over Splinterskull and using it as a base of operations. Don't recylce *everything*, but a few recycled quests might be kinda cool, depending on which ones they chose.

If the maps are not the easy part of quests (and I have no way of knowing from where I sit here...), then the idea doesn't help.

Waterworks isn't one I'd choose, myself. :D

The occasional re-use of a map, or amalgam of prior maps, is a welcome novelty as long as it remains occasional.

Doing it as a regular habit will further cheapen the experience. I *like* how Invaders changes the WW feel, but at the end of the day it's still the same old corridors with a few ambiance artwork pieces and different monsters. D & D is about breaking out of your humdrum surroundings and adventuring somewhere new and interesting. Rehashing old areas that have become humdrum...well...I know quite a few people that don't like Splinterskull because you traipse through parts of it *7* times. Many people dislike the VoN and DQ flagging because they're really sick of seeing the same few areas over and over and over and over again.

DDO needs NEW content, not simply retreads. They don't have to come up with new monsters, ambiance graphics, special effects etc. each time, but they do need to start churning new areas and new dungeons. The only alternative is to step up the player recruiting to a fever pitch to replace all the people who have gotten so tired of the existing content that they'd rather not play their favorite game rather than slog through the same old same old one more time. DDO is our distraction from work and the mundane bits of life, it shouldn't start to mirror them.

[Kalari]

Got to agree with AD out in the Restless Isles right now taking a penalty due to being level 17 in the newly added explorer area. I thought since it was one of the newer add ons that the level would be more like the orchard. So taking 75 % hit doesnt really make me wish to run out here at all on my high levels.

[frugal_gourmet]

The introduction of the top secret Pirate King Raid will alleviate many of these concerns.

Yup.

[Bradik_Losdar]

Very interesting thread in General Discussion about player generated content:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=179174

This would certainly take care of the "lack of content" blues - for ALL levels!

[Pyromaniac]

Although a nice thought, I'd disagree with this idea.

There is no valid justification for not providing an appropriate number of original high level quests. Too much time and resources over the past year were wasted on low level content, and this is the end result.

Putting a bandaid on poor planning isn't the way to fix these issues. Getting better planners is.