Casters vs WoPs

[...v...]

Casters:
Phantasmal Killer
Finger of death
etc..

Clerics:
Slay living
Destruction
etc...

Melee
WOP
Vorp
The only thing I see wrong here is that the melee need to grind bargain and trade to get a WoP. Unlike casters insta kills is a free handout. So what is the real problem here? It's looking you right in the face.

[BlackSteel]

wow just wow

i think u answered your own question by equating stat damage to instakill


how can you not see anything wrong with that? running around a dungeon with two sticks of ' i win' that they're only limit is their durability.

[Maegin]

wow just wow

i think u answered your own question by equating stat damage to instakill


how can you not see anything wrong with that? running around a dungeon with two sticks of ' i win' that they're only limit is their durability.

qft

[Mindspat]

So what is the real problem here? It's looking you right in the face.

I'm not sure if you know this but there's something currently in the game that already addresses it. While I'm not a professional Forum ***** by any standard, nor do I posses the empathy you'd find with a customer service representative, I'll refer to you to something hoping that maybe, just maybe, someone else can attempt to explain it to you:

Spell Points

[...v...]

wow just wow

i think u answered your own question by equating stat damage to instakill


how can you not see anything wrong with that? running around a dungeon with two sticks of ' i win' that they're only limit is their durability.


First of its not insta kill it still takes effort unlike a caster who just sit there and hit Tab 1 to get a kill. I on the other have to chace down mobs and hack and slash them down and need I not remind you most of us run a crit range of 15-20 so I'm only delivering 1d6 con damage 1/4 of the time.

[Phidius]

Casters:
Cloudkill
Phantasmal Killer
Finger of death
Banish/Dismiss
etc..

Clerics:
Slay living
Destruction
Banish/Dismiss
etc...

Melee
WOP
Wounding
Puncturing
Vorp
Banishers
Disruptors
The only thing I see wrong here is that the melee need to grind bargain and trade to get a WoP. Unlike casters insta kills is a free handout. So what is the real problem here? It's looking you right in the face.

If you think casters have/had anything to compare to WoP, you've been playing a different game than I have.

[...v...]

If you think casters have/had anything to compare to WoP, you've been playing a different game than I have.

\
SF-CK did you know ck stacks?

[Nick_RC]

First of its not insta kill it still takes effort unlike a caster who just sit there and hit Tab 1 to get a kill. I on the other have to chace down mobs and hack and slash them down and need I not remind you most of us run a crit range of 15-20 so I'm only delivering 1d6 con damage 1/4 of the time.

Do you even play a caster?

Think about this and then reply.

Blanket immunities.
Limited Spell Points.
High monster saves.
High Monster Spell Resistance.

Sound like you only run with hastebots anyway. Consider again the demands u place on you're casters. Judging by other threads you expect the full gamut of buffs and then some, you expect crowd control, and then you come here and say this?

Wops are gone. Deal with it.
N

[...v...]

If you think casters have/had anything to compare to WoP, you've been playing a different game than I have.

oh yeah and try to banish and disrupt mobs on elite runs it's why I didnt even bring those up.

[Slink]

Of course if mobs saves are increased just enough, it could also make the difference between a failed save.

Perhaps without your melees running around doing damage to fort saves, these spells might not work anyways.

[...v...]

Do you even play a caster?

Think about this and then reply.

Blanket immunities.
Limited Spell Points.
High monster saves.
High Monster Spell Resistance.

Sound like you only run with hastebots anyway. Consider again the demands u place on you're casters. Judging by other threads you expect the full gamut of buffs and then some, you expect crowd control, and then you come here and say this?

Wops are gone. Learn to dps.

N

I have a 16 sorc, I can solo almost any quest with it. Run in finger everything and done. It's so effortless and easy.

[Impaqt]

Casters:
Phantasmal Killer
Finger of death
etc..

Clerics:
Slay living
Destruction
etc...

Melee
WOP
Vorp
The only thing I see wrong here is that the melee need to grind bargain and trade to get a WoP. Unlike casters insta kills is a free handout. So what is the real problem here? It's looking you right in the face.
Looking at what? SOrry, I missed your point here.....

[Impaqt]

I have a 16 sorc, I can solo almost any quest with it. Run in finger everything and done. It's so effortless and easy.

you can FoD Red and Purple named Bosses?

[...v...]

Do you even play a caster?

Think about this and then reply.

Blanket immunities.
Limited Spell Points.
High monster saves.
High Monster Spell Resistance.

Sound like you only run with hastebots anyway. Consider again the demands u place on you're casters. Judging by other threads you expect the full gamut of buffs and then some, you expect crowd control, and then you come here and say this?

Wops are gone. Deal with it.
N


I should learn to dps? Yeah let me throw a firewall Tab2 I'm uber.

[...v...]

you can FoD Red and Purple named Bosses?

Pick a quest and I'll show you.

[Nick_RC]

I have a 16 sorc, I can solo almost any quest with it. Run in finger everything and done. It's so effortless and easy.

If you have a 16 sorc and cant see the difference then Im not gonna waste my time explaining it.

[...v...]

If you have a 16 sorc and cant see the difference then Im not gonna waste my time explaining it.

no I cant, hack and slash or TAB 1. Man thats a hard one.

[Kadran]

Pick a quest and I'll show you.

I'd love to tag along for your solo Shroud run. :-) I promise I won't kill anything to steal your thunder.

[...v...]

I'd love to tag along for your solo Shroud run. :-) I promise I won't kill anything to steal your thunder.


hmm, another public school product. quest vs raid.

[...v...]

hmm, another public school product. quest vs raid.

and if I wanted to blow 150 mana pots I can even solo VOD.

[Raithe]

Spell Points

Casters can purchase rings of spell storing and mana pots, and can also recall if they want to take a small xp penalty.

I think the OP makes some very valid points.

I have a ranger/rogue/wizard who uses wounding/puncturing quite a bit, and would continue to do so even after the upcoming change. When he's done puncturing, he can simply whip out a "flesh to stone" scroll and use it against low-SR mobs. With a 0 con, they will have a -5 penalty to save instead of a +10.

The imbalanced removal of easy buttons is rather puzzling.

[Nick_RC]

no I cant, hack and slash or TAB 1. Man thats a hard one.

This is so very funny coming from the guy that wont allow more than one caster in the shroud.

So let me get this straight. Im trying to see reasoning here.. You are complaing that casters have the easy button but then you wont allow more than one in a shroud run?

[boldarblood]

Casters:
Phantasmal Killer
Finger of death
etc..

Clerics:
Slay living
Destruction
etc...

Melee
WOP
Vorp
The only thing I see wrong here is that the melee need to grind bargain and trade to get a WoP. Unlike casters insta kills is a free handout. So what is the real problem here? It's looking you right in the face.


You only like haste/buff bots anyway. The problem is you are anti-caster.


The WOP fix, not nerf, is good for the long term health of the game. (and yes I do have them on my melee). That is one thing I do appreciate about Turbine, they are willing to make a change to the game, while it might be unpopular with the vocal few is good for the game. WOP was completely broken, if you did not see this you are blind.

With the upcoming mod DPS for melee is getting a much needed bump. The prestige enhancements, the capstones, all are increasing DPS. I am ok with these changes coming.

Plus if your character needs WOP to be effective, it's not a good character.

[Impaqt]

Pick a quest and I'll show you.

VoD.

[Nick_RC]

Forget it ive seen enough of you're posts to understand we play a very different game and think very different ways.

So be it.

Edit : And judging by the people posting against you Im glad I have my stance.

[Impaqt]

and if I wanted to blow 150 mana pots I can even solo VOD.


I'm sure we can get 150 pots put together for ya.

a Raid is indeed a Quest... but a Quest isnt necessarily a Raid.

[Riorik]

\
SF-CK did you know ck stacks?

And you'd be incorrect. Second or later cast spell "overrides" - has for a long time/forever. This is easy to test. Watch the con damage events per tic with a single target.


Casters can purchase rings of spell storing and mana pots, and can also recall if they want to take a small xp penalty.

You can only wear a single ring of spell storing at a time, unless you had one before the exclusive change in which cast as long as you don't put it in the bank, you can keep all of them on you indefinately.



I have a ranger/rogue/wizard who uses wounding/puncturing quite a bit, and would continue to do so even after the upcoming change. When he's done puncturing, he can simply whip out a "flesh to stone" scroll and use it against low-SR mobs. With a 0 con, they will have a -5 penalty to save instead of a +10.



Why would you bother with the scroll anyways? Most of the time, I'd say that's the slow way unless it's a constant respawn environment. Don't expect scrolls to work well anywhere that Spell Resistance is involved, either (which should be everywhere on Shavarrath)...you don't get your caster level, feats or item bonuses with scrolls.

Stat damage equipment will continue to be effective. Instead of dropping the second they hit 0, they'll drop after a few more autocrit swings. It will just slow the builds down, not stop them.

[boldarblood]

\
SF-CK did you know ck stacks?

No they do not.

[Junts]

First of its not insta kill it still takes effort unlike a caster who just sit there and hit Tab 1 to get a kill. I on the other have to chace down mobs and hack and slash them down and need I not remind you most of us run a crit range of 15-20 so I'm only delivering 1d6 con damage 1/4 of the time.


get back to me when my wop rapier has a sr check and saving throw and is blocked by death ward

oh wait, you're a dramatic whiner.

[Nick_RC]

get back to me when my wop rapier has a sr check and saving throw and is blocked by death ward

oh wait, you're a dramatic whiner.

We have a winner.

[boldarblood]

hmm, another public school product. quest vs raid.

Hey maybe since casters are so much more powerful, perhaps you should bring more than 0-1 on your next shroud.

[Uproar]

That is one thing I do appreciate about Turbine, they are willing to make a change to the game, while it might be unpopular with the vocal few is good for the game.

Be careful with what practices you encourage with your appreciation. SOE often thinks they know best too.

[Raithe]

get back to me when my wop rapier has a sr check and saving throw and is blocked by death ward


So is your "Finger of Death" stopped by a high armor class, DR, or concealment, and is it cured by the target's own heal spell?

[Nick_RC]

So is your "Finger of Death" stopped by a high armor class, DR, or concealment, and is it cured by the target's own heal spell?

If you cant hit trash -> reroll, -> if you cant bypass dr on a frontline melee -> reroll. And as far as i know heal doesnt affect con damage when used by enemy casters. I could be wrong but I dont think so.

Concealment is valid, but the premis is flawed so who cares.

N

[Raithe]

And as far as i know heal doesnt affect con damage when used by enemy casters. I could be wrong but I dont think so.


Con damage is healed by a heal spell, whether on mobs or characters. You can remove negative levels from mobs, too, if you have them charmed.

[Mindspat]

and if I wanted to blow 150 mana pots I can even solo VOD.

This is where I come out and call you a liar for making such rediculous claims. I also beleive you're whinny post crying about threads being moved into the proper categories is more of a tantrum from not having people pay attention to you.

pathetic.

[boldarblood]

Be careful with what practices you encourage with your appreciation. SOE often thinks they know best too.

To date, they have made some very difficult decisions that have made a lot of people mad in past but usually for the better of the game.

1)nerf to human versatility - was to powerful
2)nerf to heavy armour / evasion - should not have worked
3)nerf to firewall/ck through a door - cheesy
4)stacking firewalls - shoudl not stack
5)Changes to enhancement system - remember the outcry when they got rid of 4
6)etc

All these changes caused alot of anger among the vocal minority. All of them were done to make game more fair/balanced. WOP in it's current form is broken. The change NEEDED to happen.

Turbine has done a good job of making changes, while maybe unpopular, are usually the right one. Some could argue for variation to these changes, which I will not agree or disagree with as that is not point this very second.

[boldarblood]

So is your "Finger of Death" stopped by a high armor class, DR, or concealment, and is it cured by the target's own heal spell?

I hit everything on a 2 or greater on all my melee, only 1-2 monsters in the whole game require me to take off power attack. If you are having problem hitting then that character was not designed well. For appropriate DR, use the right weapon, don't be a one trick pony.

[...v...]

This is so very funny coming from the guy that wont allow more than one caster in the shroud.

So let me get this straight. Im trying to see reasoning here.. You are complaing that casters have the easy button but then you wont allow more than one in a shroud run?


yeah I much rather run with two casters from your groups who cant even hand out gh

[Phidius]

oh yeah and try to banish and disrupt mobs on elite runs it's why I didnt even bring those up.

Disruption worked just fine the last time I did Madstone on elite. It didn't land every time, but it landed far more often than FoD or PK...


So is your "Finger of Death" stopped by a high armor class, DR, or concealment, and is it cured by the target's own heal spell?

Yes... SR is armor for spells, insta-kill spells have saving throws, there's an analog of concealment for casters, and I've never seen Heal stop a WoP.


To date, they have made some very difficult decisions that have made a lot of people mad in past but usually for the better of the game.

1)nerf to human versatility - was to powerful
2)nerf to heavy armour / evasion - should not have worked
3)nerf to firewall/ck through a door - cheesy
4)stacking firewalls - shoudl not stack
5)Changes to enhancement system - remember the outcry when they got rid of 4
6)etc

All these changes caused alot of anger among the vocal minority. All of them were done to make game more fair/balanced. WOP in it's current form is broken. The change NEEDED to happen.

Turbine has done a good job of making changes, while maybe unpopular, are usually the right one. Some could argue for variation to these changes, which I will not agree or disagree with as that is not point this very second.

I agree with you... I was pretty upset by the "stacking firewall" change. At least, until I actually experienced it for myself. I admit that I allowed the forums to get me all worked up over nothing.

I have hopes that the hot issues now will be the same - nothing to get worked up over. Only time will tell.

[...v...]

You only like haste/buff bots anyway. The problem is you are anti-caster.


The WOP fix, not nerf, is good for the long term health of the game. (and yes I do have them on my melee). That is one thing I do appreciate about Turbine, they are willing to make a change to the game, while it might be unpopular with the vocal few is good for the game. WOP was completely broken, if you did not see this you are blind.

With the upcoming mod DPS for melee is getting a much needed bump. The prestige enhancements, the capstones, all are increasing DPS. I am ok with these changes coming.

Plus if your character needs WOP to be effective, it's not a good character.

they could of made other changes such as raising mob con or to make casters happy lower sr.

[...v...]

get back to me when my wop rapier has a sr check and saving throw and is blocked by death ward

oh wait, you're a dramatic whiner.

dispell the deathward newb, and dont make and example of 1% of the content which features that.

[Nick_RC]

yeah I much rather run with two casters from your groups who cant even hand out gh

Get a gird stop being a sponge.

[...v...]

This is where I come out and call you a liar for making such rediculous claims. I also beleive you're whinny post crying about threads being moved into the proper categories is more of a tantrum from not having people pay attention to you.

pathetic.

LOL, yes I found it anoying. I really dont need your attention matter of fact dont post here anymore ty.

[...v...]

Get a gird stop being a sponge.

thats the best you can do?

[Raithe]

I hit everything on a 2 or greater on all my melee, only 1-2 monsters in the whole game require me to take off power attack. If you are having problem hitting then that character was not designed well. For appropriate DR, use the right weapon, don't be a one trick pony.

Can you say "missed the point by a mile?"

First off, I can guarantee you aren't hitting every mob on a 2 or greater in every situation without a bard present. If you could, then that would be the problem, wouldn't it?

Second, it's possible for a caster to attain a spell penetration number that works on most rolls, and can work even on a roll of 1. The caster doesn't even need to get close to the mob to do it, either.

We're talking apples and oranges. WoP has opposing defenses, and plenty of mobs that are flat-out immune, and casters still have the edge by a mile if we're worried about kill counts. It makes me wonder what the devs were worried about...

[Nick_RC]

thats the best you can do?

Meh U conveniantly sidestep all the arguments against you. You really have no conception of what you are talking about. You just ignore what anyon else has to say and still think what you have to say is right.

PPPPPlease. You go about being uneducated, and more importantly looking like a noob. Watching you blunder through more posts is always fun.

Shame im outta here for four hours. Cant wait to get back and check in and see how you're doing here.

[Raithe]

Yes... SR is armor for spells, insta-kill spells have saving throws, there's an analog of concealment for casters,...

So we agree?



...and I've never seen Heal stop a WoP.


Wow, didn't expect to run into such ignorance. Heal doesn't just cure some of a target's stat damage from wounding and/or puncturing. It cures all of it. Every last bit of damage done, no matter how much.

Edit: As an example, it can be quite annoying for someone to be DPSing a ghaele cleric while others are wounding/puncturing it, because the HP damage will cause it to cast a heal on itself, making anyone with puncturers start over from scratch. The question is, why doesn't it cast heal when the stats start dropping, too?

[...v...]

Meh U conveniantly sidestep all the arguments against you. You really have no conception of what you are talking about. You just ignore what anyon else has to say and still think what you have to say is right.

PPPPPlease. You go about being uneducated, and more importantly looking like a noob. Watching you blunder through more posts is always fun.

Shame im outta here for four hours. Cant wait to get back and check in and see how you're doing here.


I posted my state of mind reguarding this matter, yet you chose to make personal attacks against me. Show me how smart you are clown and point out to me where you made any valid points. For god sakes you dont even know that heal cures con damage.

[Nick_RC]

So we agree?



Wow, didn't expect to run into such ignorance. Heal doesn't just cure some of a target's stat damage from wounding and/or puncturing. It cures all of it. Every last bit of damage done, no matter how much.

Its not ignorance I could have sworn that enemy casters healing their own mobs didnt affect stat damage. I KNOW how the spell works. It was something specific about enemy mobs using the full heal spell on enemy allies that didnt do it. There was a big discussion about it somewher but im outta time.

N

[Mhykke]

Its not ignorance I could have sworn that enemy casters healing their own mobs didnt affect stat damage. I KNOW how the spell works. It was something specific about enemy mobs using the full heal spell on enemy allies that didnt do it. There was a big discussion about it somewher but im outta time.

N

You are correct.

Running with the devils, run with a wounder, watch as the mobs heal themselves, and you kill them with wounding 1 swing later. This quest has enemy mobs casting heal on themselves quite a bit. It's easy to test.

It's a bug. Heal is supposed to cure con damage, but happily for us, it's buggy with enemy casters. Maybe some other quests the bug doesn't exist, but running with the devils is easy to test in b/c of the number of heals the mobs throw around.

Maybe it was fixed recently, but I don't recalling any mentions of any fixes to this.

[Phidius]

So we agree?

Apparently. Presuming, of course, that we are agreeing that arcane's do not have the easy button the OP was implying...



Wow, didn't expect to run into such ignorance. Heal doesn't just cure some of a target's stat damage from wounding and/or puncturing. It cures all of it. Every last bit of damage done, no matter how much.

That's strange... Paragon Shaman Kobolds die from con damage even though they spam heals on themselves. I agree that Heal removes our con damage, but without the ability to check mob's character sheets, I can't say the same for them.

I have never once heard a melee say something like "Hey, can someone help me with this shaman? He keeps healing away my WoP..."

[...v...]

Do you even play a caster?

Think about this and then reply.

Blanket immunities.
Limited Spell Points.
High monster saves.
High Monster Spell Resistance.

Sound like you only run with hastebots anyway. Consider again the demands u place on you're casters. Judging by other threads you expect the full gamut of buffs and then some, you expect crowd control, and then you come here and say this?

Wops are gone. Deal with it.
N

Yeah I say this regarding the matter of them nerfing WoPs. It was a comparison numb nuts talk about education.

[Mhykke]

I have never once heard a melee say something like "Hey, can someone help me with this shaman? He keeps healing away my WoP..."

That's b/c there's a bug and enemy heals don't cure away their stat damage.

[Phidius]

That's b/c there's a bug and enemy heals don't cure away their stat damage.

Yeah, I read your previous post after I posted mine... these hot topics can be difficult to stay on top of :D

[rimble]

I'm not sure if you know this but there's something currently in the game that already addresses it. While I'm not a professional Forum ***** by any standard, nor do I posses the empathy you'd find with a customer service representative, I'll refer to you to something hoping that maybe, just maybe, someone else can attempt to explain it to you:

Spell Points

...and Spell Resistance...and Saving Throws...

[Raithe]

That's b/c there's a bug and enemy heals don't cure away their stat damage.

I just verified on a Windlasher Soul Howler in Gianthold that both my heals and his own were curing the stat damage I imposed with a weakening returning dart of puncturing while he was stoned (= autocrit).

Heals from both mobs and players will cure stat damage on mobs.

[Nevthial]

I just verified on a Windlasher Soul Howler in Gianthold that both my heals and his own were curing the stat damage I imposed with a weakening returning dart of puncturing while he was stoned (= autocrit).

Heals from both mobs and players will cure stat damage on mobs.

Yes. The reason you sometimes see it and sometimes not is because some enemy casters aren't using the Heal spell at all, they are using Cure Critical Wounds or lesser.

[vtecfiend99]

This is so very funny coming from the guy that wont allow more than one caster in the shroud.

So let me get this straight. Im trying to see reasoning here.. You are complaing that casters have the easy button but then you wont allow more than one in a shroud run?

There are people who still care what they take in the shroud???:eek::eek::eek:


That is SOOOOOO feb 2008... lol

[vtecfiend99]

That's b/c there's a bug and enemy heals don't cure away their stat damage.

wait... what? Seems when I CK a caster mob and they cast Heal on themselves, they dont die in the ck. has this changed recently?

[arcsonist]

Really dont see why some people that actually play warrior classes are so glad that they are nerfing one of the most powerful weapons in the game Its just amazing to me For goodness sake its a weapon would you rather be swinging a stem of red roses and having the enemy subdude by your 8 Charisma (girl gamers dont answer :p ). I truly belive its an ego thing now and not just that I dont own one. That kill count thing has got you guys all worked up.


I am with you V fight on LONG LIVE WOP !!


Devs pls nerf Kill counts.

[Melkor_The_Mighty]

and if I wanted to blow 150 mana pots I can even solo VOD.

Yes a "skilled" WF Sorc can easily Solo Vod with 150 Majors, since I dont know you I cant comment on you skill lvl, If your Not WF then this is made somewhat more difficult as even maxed out Concentration with +15 Concentration item you' ll fail on Heal scroll usage more often then you think.
Depending on your method (ie. Stuff yourself in a crack and DOT or Kite and DOT, since I assume you dont have evasion or Rogue lvl thats not good tactic for Sorc). You may need some other essential gear, Firestorm greaves/Ring of the Djinni/DOD. 150 Majors will net you approx 1055 more 65 Spell point casts, not including you intial 2500 Spell points.



I'm sure we can get 150 pots put together for ya.

a Raid is indeed a Quest... but a Quest isnt necessarily a Raid.


All raids are Quests, All Quests aren't raids /signed


This is where I come out and call you a liar for making such rediculous claims. I also beleive you're whinny post crying about threads being moved into the proper categories is more of a tantrum from not having people pay attention to you.

Soloing Vod is not ridiculous, using the " I can do it but don't want to waste 150-200 Majors" is.... There's no excuse in Eberron so-called "elitest/Uber" players dont Have 200-500 Majors.

pathetic.


This is so very funny coming from the guy that wont allow more than one caster in the shroud.

So let me get this straight. Im trying to see reasoning here.. You are complaing that casters have the easy button but then you wont allow more than one in a shroud run?

The reason Shroud raid leaders who are casters wont allow a second caster is if they are insecure elitist and dont want a 2nd caster to threaten their self-prolaimed "uber-elitism". Have been in many Shroud runs where they were as many as 4 or 5 casters and it proved to be no more difficult if they were somewhat capable at least in their craft.
In fact, some would ask my brother and I to join but not use weapons becausee we frequenly have the highest or near highest kill counts, DESPITE the fact we both keep people alive as our primary duty and noone ever died because we neglected our primary responsibilty to heal vs fight. when we play we wont join a raid that the leader EXCLUDES a 2nd of the same class (Think Rogue leading reaver but wont let a 2nd rogue join when theres no reason for the 1st rogue either..LOL)as they have revealed their hand that they are either incapable, an idiot, elitist idot, insecure, insecure showoff, or just dont know any better and in that case we will send a tell to confirm that.


Get a gird stop being a sponge.

Capped players who cant GH themselves are unworthy of buffs/heals etc. However, if a caster has SP left before using a shrine they would be selfish and poor teammates if they dint generously pass out buffs. Also no excuse for capped players to not have DW clickies,you run 10 30-60 minute Shrouds 2 times a week and you can't solo the TR chain in under 30 minutes?!?!. The TS bothers me less as it doesn't always drop in DQ and Vod and you dont always see the staff in AH.




I am with you V fight on LONG LIVE WOP !!


Devs pls nerf Kill counts.[/quote]

Kill count is an indication somewhat of effectiveness however its not the truest measure. Adding a Damage meter would be usefull addition to the quest log as many player use instant death (ie. vorp, smiting, disruption,Banishing, PK,FOD, SL, Destruction etc) and won't necessrly do much damage. Whereas a high DPS player will do lots of damage but that will not always be reflected in the kill count as any decent rogue can time a high damage sneak attack and finish off the mob the high DPS did 80% of the damage to.

To me, just me not saying you, if a player doent have a high DPS rating or a high kill count and arent a Bard, cleric (melee/offensive clerics nothwithstanding) or CC caster there may be something wrong. Again make the quest log more comprehensive, Add damage meters, Healing meters etc so players have more to look at than simply who killed the most. Often times the best killers are the worst players since they would rather finish of trash mobs that are easy kills than take elite hard to kill mobs off the Healbot cleric or CC caster thats getting clobbered, since "helping" doesn't "help" kill counts.

Why do you think players still use PG (when you dont need PG to bypass DR-GLAD they NERFED TRANS!) suffix weapons vs shattermantle which would help casters, beacuse they would rather do 3.5 more damage than lower the Mobs SR to help casters. Try using a cursespewing/crippling of Shattermantle range weapon until the gap is closed and your in melee range, or are you too slow that you cant run and swap a weapon set in the few seconds it takes to close ranks? I guess some need to put more ranks in their "elitest/uber" skill.

Either Add more measures in the Log OR take out kill counts.

[...v...]

Yeah it's not about ego when you drink 150 pots to complete a raid right?

How many memebers in a raid group?
How many members in a quest group?

Shroud:
Taking a second caster on a Shroud is a luxury, what will you guys come up with next? Maybe I should take 3 or 4 casters. It has nothing to do about being an elitist and more about how long do I want this to take for my 500th time. Since most casters cant contribute to the well being of the group I will only take one that I know who will. Besides we all have more fun running our melee types.

Casters GH:
Most of my toons are self suffucient but I cant speak for the rest of the group. Funny you mention being an elitist because you sure sounded like one right there. I know we all have our different opinions of a casters roll but in my eyes there is a reason they are given spells such as gh blurr etc.. and it would only be self centered to say it was only ment for him/herself.

Kill count:
I posted a thread about in the past to get rid of it. It's the root of all evil.

[...v...]

Really dont see why some people that actually play warrior classes are so glad that they are nerfing one of the most powerful weapons in the game Its just amazing to me For goodness sake its a weapon would you rather be swinging a stem of red roses and having the enemy subdude by your 8 Charisma (girl gamers dont answer :p ). I truly belive its an ego thing now and not just that I dont own one. That kill count thing has got you guys all worked up.


I am with you V fight on LONG LIVE WOP !!


Devs pls nerf Kill counts.

It is an ego thing your are 100% right. Juts like soloing a raid. Like I said guys running their casters get the easy kill button effortlessly while the melee type have to grind to get a WoP. My 3 years playing I only have 1 WoP. These other guys thing this **** falls on your lap and when it comes time to earning something well, they don’t want anything to do with it because it's not easy.

[Monkey_Archer]

Vorpals are cheap... anything a caster can finger can be vorpaled...

Wop is gone... deal with it..

a melee can get unlimited kills... without unlimited pots a caster cannot.

[...v...]

There are people who still care what they take in the shroud???:eek::eek::eek:


That is SOOOOOO feb 2008... lol

you missed a lot not from this thread but others about casters. its not about what we take its more about why we take.

[Nevthial]

Vorpals are cheap... anything a caster can finger can be vorpaled...

Wop is gone... deal with it..

a melee can get unlimited kills... without unlimited pots a caster cannot.

And every self sufficient and twitch skilled caster might consider carrying a Vorpal and a Seeker of +8 or +10 for dual weilding to assist in killing trash mobs alongside the melee's to conserve what spell points they have left after buffing the group. ( It beats standing around like dead weight and you will actually get kills.)

This isn't for everyone, and takes practice to know when to get out of the way, but it will get you invited back for runs with those who witness it nearly every time.

It's really all about making yourself useful. Kinda like the old adage about creating one's own job.

[...v...]

Vorpals are cheap... anything a caster can finger can be vorpaled...

Wop is gone... deal with it..

a melee can get unlimited kills... without unlimited pots a caster cannot.


shrines reset? casters can finger it before I get there and roll a 20 plus confirm it.
the point was incase you missed it that 99% of the WoP complainers dont even own one. they just want the easy kill button just like they would love to get their hands on a WoP "easy". But since you wont get a WoP easy then no one else should as well. Funny you mention "the kills" and I hope everyone see that.

[...v...]

And every self sufficient and twitch skilled caster might consider carrying a Vorpal and a Seeker of +8 or +10 for dual weilding to assist in killing trash mobs alongside the melee's to conserve what spell points they have left after buffing the group. ( It beats standing around like dead weight and you will actually get kills.)

This isn't for everyone, and takes practice to know when to get out of the way, but it will get you invited back for runs with those who witness it nearly every time.

It's really all about making yourself useful. Kinda like the old adage about creating one's own job.

I love the part about being dead weight.

[Monkey_Archer]

shrines reset? casters can finger it before I get there and roll a 20 plus confirm it.
the point was incase you missed it that 99% of the WoP complainers dont even own one. they just want the easy kill button just like they would love to get their hands on a WoP "easy". But since you wont get a WoP easy then no one else should as well. Funny you mention "the kills" and I hope everyone see that.

Rofl.

Shrines reset? hmm... didnt know that... :rolleyes:
maybe you should stop playing EASY quests on NORMAL with your EASY button :D

[Nevthial]

I love the part about being dead weight.

Anyone not contributing to the completion of whatever the group is running is "dead weight". Be it melee or caster.
Sometimes it isnt a bad thing to carry someone through content they need in order to gain them needed items so they can assist later.

There are tons of places where one or the other is simply not needed, but just along for completion/loot/xp. That's why it's a group game, so everyone can have a chance to complete a goal together by combining their strengths. ( And this is coming from someone who solo's alot. The game is about groups. Period. )

[Maegin]

*grabs popcorn*

[Samadhi]

Its not ignorance I could have sworn that enemy casters healing their own mobs didnt affect stat damage. I KNOW how the spell works. It was something specific about enemy mobs using the full heal spell on enemy allies that didnt do it. There was a big discussion about it somewher but im outta time.

N

You are correct. I have witnessed this directly when I used to do crucible runs (although maybe they fixed it since then). Hitting gnoll with w/p. He casts full heal. Hit him 1 more time and he drops dead.

[Samadhi]

Besides we all have more fun running our melee types.


I didn't know we did, thanks for clarifying

[...v...]

I didn't know we did, thanks for clarifying

I'm glad I can be of help and put things into perspective for you.

[...v...]

Rofl.

Shrines reset? hmm... didnt know that... :rolleyes:
maybe you should stop playing EASY quests on NORMAL with your EASY button :D

You have no clue as to what I do, but I can asure you we can make Kobold elite look like walk in the park.