gfunk
04-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Anyone out there have a pure-ranger elven tempest? I thought I would write out my thoughts on the new mod from my rangers perspective and see if anyone else was in a similar situation. I'm particularily interested if people are going to decide to splash a level of monk, or perhaps switch over to ranged if they stay pure.
Here are my thoughts:
I know that most people prefer str based dwarf rangers, or multi classed monk splash halfling rangers, but the elven tempest ranger used to be a fairly common build especially as many people became captivated by the idea as a result of reading too much salvatore.
Anyways, I have an old 28 point elven ranger that has been my main character for about 2 years now... description is here (http://www.guildportal.com/ContentControls/Support/JournalView.aspx?GuildID=288042&JournalEntryID=43431) . Over the time I have had this character, elven melee rangers have gone from being widely disliked to being moderately accpeted. pre mod 6 Elven rangers were considered to be too squishy, and low dps to be a valuable addition to parties.
Mod 6 changed this a bit. An extra 2 ac that stacked with shield, a permanant extra 10% attack speed that no one else got, and some exagerated damage via a buggy rams might spell meant that even moderate str elven rangers could contribute a fair bit of dps. Enhancements to rapier/shortsword attack and damage meant that elven rangers also did above average with their ability to stat damage. As a result, elven rangers became somewhat more accepted, though certainly not universely so. Even with top notch weapons and equipment, many people would not consider my ranger to be a dps provider. Frequently people would laugh when I said I would tank the reaver, or devil in shroud (thinking I had too few HP presumeably, though I have a standing 351 with over 400 when madstoned and ranged).
Well, here comes mod 9, and with it some changes to rangers. Here is what my ranger has to look forward to if i remain a pure ranger:
Mod 9 changes for tempest rangers:
The negative points:
-less AC (minus 2 AC because I can no longer use the shield spell with tempest)
-less damage bonus (because of changes to rams might),
-loss of thesynergy with finesse and stat damaging
-loss of the advantage in AC (stalwart fighters get an extra 3 ac, + 4 dodge AC when in stance, as do defenders of siberys).
-less hitpoints (because of changes to minos, and because pure rangers don't really have room for toughness with the 4 required feats that must be taken for tempest)
-loss of the advantage of melee attack speed (fighters now get it, palidans have zeal).. that essentially makes up for the ground gained in mod 6, and will likely place elven rangers firmly back in the undesirable crowd.
The only positive for a pure elven (melee) ranger are:
-1? extra attack per round via tempest III. More attacks will be nice for power 5 weapons, however most of those aren't that effective anymore (except the vorpal, but I wouldnt be surprised to see alot of deathblock in mod 9)
-capstone for faster bow attacks, though with teleporting devils, and phasing shadows to look forward too... I dont think this is going to be much fun. Plus, as an elven melee based ranger its not as if I use bows that often (im wondering if part time bow use will be significantly more useful in mod 9 for melee based rangers)
Now, I know some people feel that rangers are overpowered, and there is very little sympathy out there. Evasion and spells are pretty nice. That said, could you really expect a person to plays an elf melee ranger to get excited about the changes in mod 9?
The evil monk splash?:
I think that alot of the ranger hate out there refers to Dex Halflings or Str Dwarves that take a level of monk, similar to the widely discussed exploiter build. The monk level is verypowerful, providing the average non-armor wearing build with a fair amount of extra AC. Ultimately, I would get an extra 7 AC if I were to take a monk level (If I ate a +4 tome to get to 24 wis). Also, people felt that some dex rangers were too powerful because of finesse-stat damaging capability (even though barbarians probably ruled the field in this catagory, though they had terrible AC).
The smart thing to do if I were to continue as a melee ranger would be to take a monk level... that way my rangers AC would increase to the point where they would be very resilient. The thing is, I am very reluctant to multiclass a character I have had pure for 2 years. Is it nostalgia? Is it fear over the penalties that multiclassing could bring in the future?
I don't know, however I do know that by staying pure, my ranger will be falling behind this mod, and people will begin to descriminate agains elf rangers more. Some people will rejoice at the nerfage.. all those ranger haters out there (many of whom have never rolled a ranger I might add). The good thing for me is that I have good gear and am in a big guild so I will continue to use this character. Others who are in the same boat will not be so lucky.
Feelings relative to other melee classes:
I'm feeling that my new super-characters will be my pure-fighter and my pure-assassin rogue.
My rogues dps has always been greater than my rangers, and with radience + assasinate + vorpal strike + crippling strike + weakening enfeebling rapier + ever increasing sneak attack my rogue will kill faster then ever. This plus improved evasion and no-fail umd on heal scrolls (and other useful scrolls/wands) means that my rogues surviveability is going to be awesome. I also have room for toughness on this build, which means that my drow rogue acutally has more HP then my ranger.
My fighter is going to get a substantial increase increase in damage if I go kensai (though the defender looks very interesting). Because I rolled them as a human, their surviveability is great (healing amp makes csw pots hit for up to 61 points on my fighter, making self healing a cinch).
I feel a bit sorry for the Barbarians out there.. they are also giving up a bit of their dps lead relative to fighters and paladins. They are also becoming less self-sufficient if they choose to go with the new enhancements (not that many barbs were ever that self sufficient to begin with, though I do know a few). At least they are getting something completely new that may be exciting to try out (there will be massive numbers on crits with up to x6 multipliers and thf splash damage might be great). Still, the barbarian is somewhat in the same boat as the ranger (apprehension of mod 9).
I guess the other melee class (monks) would be rather ambivalent about the whole thing, facing no real changes (though dr 10/epic is sorta exciting).
Anyways, just looking for thoughts from other elf melee rangers.
Here are my thoughts:
I know that most people prefer str based dwarf rangers, or multi classed monk splash halfling rangers, but the elven tempest ranger used to be a fairly common build especially as many people became captivated by the idea as a result of reading too much salvatore.
Anyways, I have an old 28 point elven ranger that has been my main character for about 2 years now... description is here (http://www.guildportal.com/ContentControls/Support/JournalView.aspx?GuildID=288042&JournalEntryID=43431) . Over the time I have had this character, elven melee rangers have gone from being widely disliked to being moderately accpeted. pre mod 6 Elven rangers were considered to be too squishy, and low dps to be a valuable addition to parties.
Mod 6 changed this a bit. An extra 2 ac that stacked with shield, a permanant extra 10% attack speed that no one else got, and some exagerated damage via a buggy rams might spell meant that even moderate str elven rangers could contribute a fair bit of dps. Enhancements to rapier/shortsword attack and damage meant that elven rangers also did above average with their ability to stat damage. As a result, elven rangers became somewhat more accepted, though certainly not universely so. Even with top notch weapons and equipment, many people would not consider my ranger to be a dps provider. Frequently people would laugh when I said I would tank the reaver, or devil in shroud (thinking I had too few HP presumeably, though I have a standing 351 with over 400 when madstoned and ranged).
Well, here comes mod 9, and with it some changes to rangers. Here is what my ranger has to look forward to if i remain a pure ranger:
Mod 9 changes for tempest rangers:
The negative points:
-less AC (minus 2 AC because I can no longer use the shield spell with tempest)
-less damage bonus (because of changes to rams might),
-loss of thesynergy with finesse and stat damaging
-loss of the advantage in AC (stalwart fighters get an extra 3 ac, + 4 dodge AC when in stance, as do defenders of siberys).
-less hitpoints (because of changes to minos, and because pure rangers don't really have room for toughness with the 4 required feats that must be taken for tempest)
-loss of the advantage of melee attack speed (fighters now get it, palidans have zeal).. that essentially makes up for the ground gained in mod 6, and will likely place elven rangers firmly back in the undesirable crowd.
The only positive for a pure elven (melee) ranger are:
-1? extra attack per round via tempest III. More attacks will be nice for power 5 weapons, however most of those aren't that effective anymore (except the vorpal, but I wouldnt be surprised to see alot of deathblock in mod 9)
-capstone for faster bow attacks, though with teleporting devils, and phasing shadows to look forward too... I dont think this is going to be much fun. Plus, as an elven melee based ranger its not as if I use bows that often (im wondering if part time bow use will be significantly more useful in mod 9 for melee based rangers)
Now, I know some people feel that rangers are overpowered, and there is very little sympathy out there. Evasion and spells are pretty nice. That said, could you really expect a person to plays an elf melee ranger to get excited about the changes in mod 9?
The evil monk splash?:
I think that alot of the ranger hate out there refers to Dex Halflings or Str Dwarves that take a level of monk, similar to the widely discussed exploiter build. The monk level is verypowerful, providing the average non-armor wearing build with a fair amount of extra AC. Ultimately, I would get an extra 7 AC if I were to take a monk level (If I ate a +4 tome to get to 24 wis). Also, people felt that some dex rangers were too powerful because of finesse-stat damaging capability (even though barbarians probably ruled the field in this catagory, though they had terrible AC).
The smart thing to do if I were to continue as a melee ranger would be to take a monk level... that way my rangers AC would increase to the point where they would be very resilient. The thing is, I am very reluctant to multiclass a character I have had pure for 2 years. Is it nostalgia? Is it fear over the penalties that multiclassing could bring in the future?
I don't know, however I do know that by staying pure, my ranger will be falling behind this mod, and people will begin to descriminate agains elf rangers more. Some people will rejoice at the nerfage.. all those ranger haters out there (many of whom have never rolled a ranger I might add). The good thing for me is that I have good gear and am in a big guild so I will continue to use this character. Others who are in the same boat will not be so lucky.
Feelings relative to other melee classes:
I'm feeling that my new super-characters will be my pure-fighter and my pure-assassin rogue.
My rogues dps has always been greater than my rangers, and with radience + assasinate + vorpal strike + crippling strike + weakening enfeebling rapier + ever increasing sneak attack my rogue will kill faster then ever. This plus improved evasion and no-fail umd on heal scrolls (and other useful scrolls/wands) means that my rogues surviveability is going to be awesome. I also have room for toughness on this build, which means that my drow rogue acutally has more HP then my ranger.
My fighter is going to get a substantial increase increase in damage if I go kensai (though the defender looks very interesting). Because I rolled them as a human, their surviveability is great (healing amp makes csw pots hit for up to 61 points on my fighter, making self healing a cinch).
I feel a bit sorry for the Barbarians out there.. they are also giving up a bit of their dps lead relative to fighters and paladins. They are also becoming less self-sufficient if they choose to go with the new enhancements (not that many barbs were ever that self sufficient to begin with, though I do know a few). At least they are getting something completely new that may be exciting to try out (there will be massive numbers on crits with up to x6 multipliers and thf splash damage might be great). Still, the barbarian is somewhat in the same boat as the ranger (apprehension of mod 9).
I guess the other melee class (monks) would be rather ambivalent about the whole thing, facing no real changes (though dr 10/epic is sorta exciting).
Anyways, just looking for thoughts from other elf melee rangers.